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New Zealand can eat me
Aug 29, 2008

I LIKE TO SMOKE DONGS. IF I HAVENT MENTIONED MY BLACK SATURN ASTRA MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN STOLEN

I already have a razor blade / lint free wipes / 97% iso ready to go from the surgery we did on my 2600k , it just seemed more realistic with the way these screw in in compared to the intel brackets v0v

Edit/Quote for new page

Palladium posted:

http://techreport.com/news/31826/ry...-fiscal-q1-2017

So AMD lost even more money YoY despite Ryzen.

Even if they had managed to ship rock solid motherboards and known good memory on day one I don't think it would have made a difference. I'd imagine they anticipate coming back in a big way with ~vega~ (try not to laugh), the "super processors" they were hinting at WRT combining vega and ryzen would be so dandy. I could't imagine paying $1100 for an Intel processor, but I would easily spend that much for a 2nd gen Ryzen + Vega w/ 8-16GB of HBM2 onboard.

New Zealand can eat me fucked around with this message at May 2, 2017 around 00:38

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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004

blub

Best chemical I found was Akasa Tim clean. It just wipes the paste right off.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

Best chemical I found was Akasa Tim clean. It just wipes the paste right off.

Nah, all you need is 99% isopropyl, or whatever is the highest-test stuff you can get. 70% will do in a pinch, just be careful to let it air out for a while longer because it does leave a little bit of water residue. And don't go nuts spilling 70% everywhere either.

That plus coffee filters or some other lint/fiber free wipes.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at May 2, 2017 around 00:43

New Zealand can eat me
Aug 29, 2008

I LIKE TO SMOKE DONGS. IF I HAVENT MENTIONED MY BLACK SATURN ASTRA MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN STOLEN

I used to just use coffee filters until I found these 'tissues' made out of the same thing. I couldn't imagine using these as actual tissues, though

e:f;b

Yea, 99% iso is an industry standard. I kind of want to try deoxyIT and see how that works, but it's not like iso does a particularly bad job. If you're worried about deposits, just breathe on it after you've wiped, the condensation should be enough to evaporate what is left.

vvv I'd like to personally apologize for being all 0.15% of AMD's losses last month, I was playing cake champions beta instead of steam titles vvv

New Zealand can eat me fucked around with this message at May 2, 2017 around 00:58

Drakhoran
Oct 21, 2012


Paul MaudDib posted:

No, actually that says that 2% more of the Passmark runs were done on AMD systems. Which isn't quite the same thing, especially when Ryzen has performance problems that need a lot of tweaking to tune up properly. They don't even dedupe down to actual unique users, it's literally "runs of the software". Run it five times, you go in 5 times.

Steam results are probably going to be a little more meaningful, or some other source of data on actual systems as opposed to number of benchmark runs.

In that case, bad news for AMD:

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



Even if Ryzen becomes a huge success it will take time to build up momentum. Some of the pieces still aren't even released. Just look at the posters in this thread who won't even consider it until it's available in ITX form factor.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012



New Zealand can eat me posted:

If you have an 1x00X processor, the latest version of Ryzen Master will give you correct temperature readings.


Upgraded from 0605 to 0609 on my ASUS PRIME B350-PLUS and it stopped booting, lol.

I'm assuming it's an issue specific to being on 0605 and going directly to 0609 without first upgrading to 0606, which I did not notice when I downloaded 0609.

Contacted ASUS support on Saturday, no reply yet. Have exhausted all avenues of "fixing" this one, CMOS Reset, CMOS Reset + Battery Removal, and the Ctrl+Alt+Del Reset+Power process. Can't even get it to post to boot into a DVD or autodetect bios firmware on fat32 thumb drive. Also tried swapping out memory/gpu just to verify individual things still functioned in other machines.

Amazon was really cool about it and I'll have a replacement here tomorrow morning, they also let me return both sets of ram I purchased weeks after the return window w/ no additional charges.

This is probably a stupid question but I'm extremely lazy: is it possible to remove the heatsink/pump and processor together without having to re-apply paste? I have some handy regardless but it hadn't occurred to me until now that I could do even less



The Board has Crashfree 3 tech. Have you tried the Manuals Directions and rename the bios file before you tried booting with it?

incoherent
Apr 24, 2004

01010100011010000111001
00110100101101100011011
000110010101110010


Rastor posted:

Even if Ryzen becomes a huge success it will take time to build up momentum. Some of the pieces still aren't even released. Just look at the posters in this thread who won't even consider it until it's available in ITX form factor.

Ryzen needs serious design wins. It's feel-good press material to talk about the "enthusiasts" and "end users" but the real money is when companies buy thousands of them.

VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003

YEAH

LICK MY ASS

BITCH


incoherent posted:

Ryzen needs serious design wins. It's feel-good press material to talk about the "enthusiasts" and "end users" but the real money is when companies buy thousands of them.

I'd probably guess that getting back into the laptop market would maybe be a design win, but I'm guessing we'll have to wait until Ryzen APUs for that.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

I'M FLYING TO HARDEE'S

VulgarandStupid posted:

I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that all of the non-X ones will overclock to the same clock as their X counter part and come with a cooler. Normally the cooler wouldn't be a big deal, but AM4 cooler brackets are some what rare these days. So in short, you're still spending more even money to get less, since all of the motherboards can overclock unlike Intel.

Isn't the Wraith Spire inadequate for OC'ing the 1700 though?

Drakhoran
Oct 21, 2012


Depends on how far you want to overclock it. Kyle at Bitwit got his 1700 to 4 GHz with a Noctua cooler, but only to 3.9 GHz with the Spire.

Drakhoran fucked around with this message at May 2, 2017 around 13:37

Beautiful Ninja
Mar 25, 2009

Five time FCW Champion...of my heart.


Drakhoran posted:

Depends on how far you want to overclock it. Kyle at Bitwit got his 1700 to 4 GHz with a Noctua cooler, but only to 3.9 GHz with the Spire.

To be fair, there is an enormous difference between 3.9 and 4ghz on Ryzen. 3.9 is pretty much the max clock speed the process can handle with any sort of efficiency and anything past starts seeing the chips suck down volts like it was a Polaris GPU.

New Zealand can eat me
Aug 29, 2008

I LIKE TO SMOKE DONGS. IF I HAVENT MENTIONED MY BLACK SATURN ASTRA MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN STOLEN

EdEddnEddy posted:

The Board has Crashfree 3 tech. Have you tried the Manuals Directions and rename the bios file before you tried booting with it?

Next time I will be sure to re-type the entire procedure verbatim so you know I tried it What else could "exhausted all avenues" mean

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004

blub

To be fair, it's good advice for anyone else with that board and this problem.

quote:

Nah, all you need is 99% isopropyl, or whatever is the highest-test stuff you can get.

I don't remember what paste I was using, but iso wouldn't easily shift it. The Akasa stuff was effective.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at May 2, 2017 around 15:54

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

New Zealand can eat me posted:

Next time I will be sure to re-type the entire procedure verbatim so you know I tried it What else could "exhausted all avenues" mean

A simple yes would have worked instead of sounding like an rear end in a top hat.

New Zealand can eat me
Aug 29, 2008

I LIKE TO SMOKE DONGS. IF I HAVENT MENTIONED MY BLACK SATURN ASTRA MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN STOLEN

Reading the original post would have worked instead of being an rear end in a top hat

Transplant successful, dead one shipped back to Amazon along with the 4x8GB CL16-3200. They were pretty cool about returning it for full refund even though I missed the return cutoff by a few weeks. This board flashes back and forth between 0605 and 0609 without issue, I'm not sure why the other one died. It's still new enough to be at the early/high point of the bathtub curve, so maybe it just decided it was time to move on from this world?

I've been seeing that some people have been having trouble getting their 2x16GB anything to clock over 2133 with the PRIME B350-PLUS (and most likely other boards), the "trick" to that is to figure out which slots correspond with each channel, and only use one stick per channel. If you try to use both sticks on the same channel it will have to use a 2T command rate. Going against what everyone generally tells you to do and using separate channels will allow the dual rank ram to run at 1T CR w/ slightly looser timings (Try 18-18-18-36 or even 40/42, work your way downwards). IE if slots 1-2 are A, and slots 3-4 are B, put them in slots 1-3 instead of 1-2 or 2-3. Higher ram/soc voltages shouldn't be needed, but are worth trying if you're desperate, as is disabling fast boot supposedly. I am solid at 2933 without any of those things using either 0605 or 0609.

I don't really have a legitimate use for 64GB of ram yet, so I have no idea what happens if you stick another set in. These speeds might be something that aren't possible until we have single rank 16GB DDR4.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004

blub

I hope the poster that offered you help isn't put off doing the same again in future. I totally don't get at all why you didn't just say thanks. But w/e.

I'm glad your new system works.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 02:40

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

I hope the poster that offered you help isn't put off doing the same again in future. I totally don't get at all why you didn't just say thanks. But w/e.

I'm glad your new system works.

Is that me? I've been called worse during my history posting in the AMD thread

(I really don't hate AMD, I pretty much ran ATI/AMD everything for close to 20 years and actually I'd love for them to take some real performance (not price) wins. I've just become... accustomed to disappointment)

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004

blub

Hah no! It was EdEddnEddy being snarked at for mentioning a potential fix to that guys problem.

I like AMD too but haven't used them for a long time. But the 1700 is interesting me. 

But I'll wait for a respin and Asus ITX.

E- I'm wondering now if the respin isn't going to happen until Ryzen+.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 03:07

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

Hah no! It was EdEddnEddy being snarked at for mentioning a potential fix to that guys problem.

I like AMD too but haven't used them for a long time. But the 1700 is interesting me.

1700 is awesome, especially for productivity, it's just not a super win over the Intel HEDT line like it was trumpeted as. It was a solid incremental improvement on the 5820K/6800K at more or less the same price (which is amazing given how terrible Bulldozer was, heil Keller), but not the second coming of Jesus or double the performance at the same price or any of the other poo poo that got said.

It's a hammer and now everyone is looking for a nail to apply it to. But 6 Haswell cores at 3.8 GHz max overclock is not really all that fast, I had a faster 5820K a year ago at stock voltage for $330. I had hopes, and Ryzen v1.0 was a big wet fart.

Also, Intel is literally launching 6C-12C Skylake HEDT chips within the next 3 months so... wait for Vega Skylake-X. 6 cores worth of Skylake IPC at 4.6 GHz is gonna be pretty killer for multi-thread gaming that is friendly to ryzen sort of cores and it'll probably launch at $425 or so. Betting $375 for us Microcenter-havers.

edit:

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

But I'll wait for a respin and Asus ITX.

At this point I don't trust Ryzen's memory controller far enough to do the kind of server builds I was interested in. Ryzen+ or bust.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 03:13

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012



Naw I am used to that sort of customer response both from people that haven't a real clue as to what they are doing, (But hate the "Did you turn it off and on again?" question, that usually fixes the issue) to the ones that know what they are doing, but hey, I can't read minds through a forum or anything.

On the Tech side of things though, I have a knack for bringing things back to life that appear dead to all others so I would have liked to have had a chance with that poor board, but I also can see that being this early in the new tech's lifecycle that something just borked itself between bios flashes.

Glad you're up and going again.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004

blub

What I'd really like is to get the ultimate 6c+ chip for consistent frametime. I wonder if the 6c skylake chips will change things there.

(I have a 6600k at 4.5 ATM and kind of wish I'd gone 5820k instead now.)

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


EdEddnEddy posted:

Naw I am used to that sort of customer response both from people that haven't a real clue as to what they are doing, (But hate the "Did you turn it off and on again?" question, that usually fixes the issue) to the ones that know what they are doing, but hey, I can't read minds through a forum or anything.

On the Tech side of things though, I have a knack for bringing things back to life that appear dead to all others so I would have liked to have had a chance with that poor board, but I also can see that being this early in the new tech's lifecycle that something just borked itself between bios flashes.

Glad you're up and going again.

I've actually heard quite a few people that have managed to bork their BIOS beyond repair at this point via whatever upgrades and stuff. If shorting out the CMOS reset pins doesn't work... what are you actually going to do?

In fact at this point you're kinda getting lucky if swapping out the board works, since so much of the UEFI lives on the CPU package now.

edit:

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

What I'd really like is to get the ultimate 6c+ chip for consistent frametime. I wonder if the 6c skylake chips will change things there.

(I have a 6600k at 4.5 ATM and kind of wish I'd gone 5820k instead now.)

Like I said I paid $330 for my 5820K, $140 for a mobo, and $120 for 32 GB of DDR4-3000 a year ago, and I hit 4.13 GHz all-core at stock voltage so... for me Ryzen was a super wet fart.

Having cores is super nice, and I'm glad the AMD folks have it too, but it wasn't really that much of a price drop. Even at Newegg, the 5820K only ever ran about $30 more than the 6700K or 7700K or other 4C8T i7s. It's not "half the price of a 6900K", it's the same price-to-performance as a 5820K was 2 years ago.

I've actually been preaching the gospel of minimum frame-times since the G3258 days and the r/amd fanbois used to dump on me for that, until AMD kicked the FX to the curb (won in averages but lost in minimum frametimes) and Ryzen started underperforming in averages but winning in minimum frametimes.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 03:25

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012



Paul MaudDib posted:

I've actually heard quite a few people that have managed to bork their BIOS beyond repair at this point via whatever upgrades and stuff. If shorting out the CMOS reset pins doesn't work... what are you actually going to do?

In fact at this point you're kinda getting lucky if swapping out the board works, since so much of the UEFI lives on the CPU package now.

Thats the thing, if he borked whatever Bios bit was on the CPU, wouldn't that have made the CPU useless in whatever board he put it in after?

That leaves something on the board with a bad flash, and with Asus board since the X79 at least, you can flash the bios with nothing more than a USB stick and power with no CPU, RAM, ETC plugged in. You also might only have 1 port that it works with (thats what my X79 has anyway) and a few weird button combos to get the process going even if the Manual sometimes states otherwise.


The weirdest was my Acer W500 tablet. I had a UEFI install of Windows 10 on the Insider Preview builds installed, and forgot about it for a while. Turns out the OS expired to the point that it would not boot up at all, and because I was a dolt and left QuickBoot enabled making it technically impossible to get to the Bios screen no matter what I tried because for whatever reason, it disabled the Keyboard upon boot even with the SSD removed.

About 3 hrs later I finally found some obscure post about how to force flash the bios with a specifically named bios file, button combo, and no visual indicator whatsoever.

It worked and I have that tablet working like a champ today. Though that was the closest I think I have gotten to loosing a device to something that stupid.

The one board that I did have die after a Bios mishap though was the old ASUS Striker II Formula Nvidia i780 which were known to just poo poo the bed randomly messing with the OC or flashing bioses. The i790 didn't have the same problem which was odd as hell.

VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003

YEAH

LICK MY ASS

BITCH


Here's a fun little video of Gamer Nexus benchmarking the 1090T. I remember when this chip came out, people were always saying that it would be amazing once games and programs were using all of the cores. Somehow, 8 years later, that never really became true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew4A5fYyKv4

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Paul MaudDib posted:

edit:


At this point I don't trust Ryzen's memory controller far enough to do the kind of server builds I was interested in. Ryzen+ or bust.

It is a shame ECC support right now seems to be "it'll work, maybe".

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013


Swear to god I haven't heard "ECC" since the rambus days and am completely mystified as to why everyone thinks this is super important all of a sudden this month.

Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at May 5, 2017 around 14:21

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


Pryor on Fire posted:

Swear to god I haven't heard "ECC" since the rambus days and am completely mystified as to why everyone thinks this is super important all of a sudden this month.

Because some people want to use higher core/thread count CPUs for stuff where ECC makes sense (IE not gaming). Large file servers, virtual machine workstations, etc. I think a few people got excited that we might be getting an ECC platform that isn't associated to Server CPUs.

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.


Pillbug

I think it'd be nice if people had options for new ECC home servers that didn't entail overpaying for aftermarket server-chipset motherboards or buying a microATX prebuilt from Dell/Lenovo/HP. I like my Poweredge T20 and all but I wish I could have gotten something with a standard ATX power supply and more drive bays for less than twice the cost.

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013


So all these developers who have been torturing the poo poo our of their macs for 10 years with vms (so many threads! the horror!) have just gotten super lucky I guess? Just seems like some bullshit to me.

havenwaters
Nov 11, 2011

even speedwagon was trolled


Pryor on Fire posted:

So all these developers who have been torturing the poo poo our of their macs for 10 years with vms (so many threads! the horror!) have just gotten super lucky I guess? Just seems like some bullshit to me.

A lot of people who want ECC are using ZFS via Freenas or something else where ECC is kind of important to the ZFS filesystem

Perplx
Jun 26, 2004


Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma

Lipstick Apathy

I think the need for ecc is overblown, generally a computer with bad ram will just crash immediately and rarely screw up the filesystem, that being said I still want ecc in a home zfs server if the price difference isnt huge.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Rhetorical: ECC is the most natural thing in the world: It's the removal of a variable that can't be controlled. In the context of a home server, why *wouldn't* you want ECC?

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


SwissArmyDruid posted:

Rhetorical: ECC is the most natural thing in the world: It's the removal of a variable that can't be controlled. In the context of a home server, why *wouldn't* you want ECC?

There's really no technical argument against it, except that it's not currently binned for overclocking so using ECC would be marginally slower than using gaming memory. But usually even dual-channel has excessive amounts of memory throughput and quad-channel is like, gratuitous amounts, even at standard clocks.

It's a useful feature that's used to artificially segment the market. I'm told that ZFS is actually no more susceptible to bit errors than any other filesystem. The argument is actually more like "if you care enough about your data to consider using ZFS then you should be using ECC regardless of what you end up using".

Of course using slow-rear end ECC RAM would trash Ryzen's performance anyway given that inter-CCX communication is tied to the memory clocks. Really I guess that should have ended my interest in Ryzen server builds then and there.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at May 5, 2017 around 17:40

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012



Doesn't ZFS have sort of built in checks for a bit flip error? Especially if you have it scrubbed on a regular scheduled that would more than likely be more often than you get flips in the first place?

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


EdEddnEddy posted:

Doesn't ZFS have sort of built in checks for a bit flip error? Especially if you have it scrubbed on a regular scheduled that would more than likely be more often than you get flips in the first place?

It has checks against bad data on disk. The idea is that if you have bad ram that it will evaluate good data as being bad (Because it fails a checksum) and will then overwrite it, possibly with wrong data (because wrong data is evaluated as being good because of your dodgy ram). Not sure how correct it is but the FreeNas developers seems pretty adamant about not using non ECC ram with data you care about.
ECC is something you have to pay a lot for on the intel side to get, a real chance for AMD to differentiate itself from the "safe" intel choice that you know is going to work with everything.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


NihilismNow posted:

It has checks against bad data on disk. The idea is that if you have bad ram that it will evaluate good data as being bad (Because it fails a checksum) and will then overwrite it, possibly with wrong data (because wrong data is evaluated as being good because of your dodgy ram). Not sure how correct it is but the FreeNas developers seems pretty adamant about not using non ECC ram with data you care about.
ECC is something you have to pay a lot for on the intel side to get, a real chance for AMD to differentiate itself from the "safe" intel choice that you know is going to work with everything.

ZFS isn't more likely to have bit errors than any other filesystem though. The devs have clarified their stance - they're adamant about using ECC with any data you care about on any filesystem. Which is good advice.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


If you're only plunking around with a couple of TB worth of data, ECC memory isn't going to make much of a difference.

When you start getting into arrays that are 32TB+ in size and moving around a LOT of data each and every day, ECC memory becomes something very nice to have.

code:

pool: linux_isos_01
 state: ONLINE
  scan: scrub in progress since Fri May  5 10:26:55 2017
        5.51T scanned out of 17.9T at 285M/s, 12h37m to go
        0 repaired, 30.82% done

That's just one of 3 32TB ZFS pool being scrubbed I don't run ECC here, but I probably should.

Obsurveyor
Jan 10, 2003



ECC required for ZFS smells like bullshit and cargo cult behavior to me.

Will ZFS and non-ECC RAM kill your data? posted:

Matthew Ahrens, one of the cofounders of ZFS at Sun Microsystems and current ZFS developer at Delphix. In the comments to one of my filesystem articles on Ars Technica, Matthew said “There’s nothing special about ZFS that requires/encourages the use of ECC RAM more so than any other filesystem.”

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Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009



Soiled Meat

Obsurveyor posted:

ECC required for ZFS smells like bullshit and cargo cult behavior to me.

Pretty sure we went through this in another thread, (Probably the NAS thread) and that was the conclusion. Obviously not bad and something to have if you can have it at the same price, (Which is far more possible now than it used to be), but for whatever we're piling on home NASes it's nothing remotely critical that will nuke your data sooner and not later.

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