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this allusion meant posted:oh man. watching der8auer’s delidding video. he’s getting great results. was really hoping not to be tempted to do anything too nuts on the next build Good lord, you weren't kidding. That extra thick heat spreader comes with quite a thermal price tag, I guess. 20C improvement is pretty crazy.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:09 |
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# ? Apr 17, 2024 19:57 |
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K8.0 posted:Unless you don't have an existing PC, I get your point but this is basically where I am right now through a series of unfortunate events combined with my rank stupidity
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:09 |
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shouldn't we be getting am5 motherboard information today as well? maybe some prices?
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:10 |
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SwissArmyDruid posted:....I don't understand this freaking out over 90 C. Maybe I'm an old piece of poo poo, but I ran P3s and Athlons, and those got up to 85, easy. AMD agrees with you: quote:users can override this to a maximum of 115°C when manually overclocking Mobile CPUs hit these temps all the time, and it's never CPU failure that ends a laptop's lifespan. Heck, on desktop I had an R-290 that spent its entire gaming lifespan at 95C with no ill effects.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:14 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:I get your point but this is basically where I am right now through a series of unfortunate events combined with my rank stupidity Well then yeah, for you it's somewhat more useful. You still need to ask yourself how long you think a given setup will provide an acceptable level of performance, and you should wait to see what Intel has to offer, but it's looking like a drat good time to be building a PC.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:15 |
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Sorry for chain-posting, but it's first look day and I'm excited as hell about these. Here's the real money shot: With only 38% of the full power that it was reviewed at, the 7950X is still the fastest processor available by decent margin over the 12900K. By giving up less than 20% in performance you save over 60% of the power usage. This thing would be nice in a SFF box with a tiny cooler. edit: quote:In the single-threaded test with CineBench R23, we only saw a drop of around 0.3%, which is negatable depending on the workload. Dropping down the overall TDP isn't as harsh on single-threaded workloads as it will be for multi-threaded workloads. ST performance remains intact mainly despite restricting overall power consumption. Running a 170W processor at 65W has negligible effects on single threaded speed, and likely gaming.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:18 |
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eviltastic posted:Good lord, you weren't kidding. That extra thick heat spreader comes with quite a thermal price tag, I guess. 20C improvement is pretty crazy. been saying for a long time that going back to direct die cooling is inevitable. The Athlon mounting bracket is just poo poo, we can do better, but it’s going to be thermally necessary at some point soon
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:26 |
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apparently RPCS3s AVX512 path is wrapped in an if_intel() block so reviewers cant test the most important use-case yet (playing demons souls) https://twitter.com/rpcs3/status/1574398461642174464
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:28 |
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Twerk from Home posted:
Rookie question here: how easy is it for the layman to reduce CPU power? Is it a toggle button or does it involve lots of black magic?
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:29 |
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I will also give Der8auer credit for fessing up to killing a 7700x with his fancy new delidding tool. Would’ve been easy to leave that out.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:31 |
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Hughmoris posted:Rookie question here: how easy is it for the layman to reduce CPU power? Is it a toggle button or does it involve lots of black magic? It's in the BIOS, it may be a specific number, or might be a selection from options.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:35 |
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looks like ltt used different memory (5200 mhz etc) than what amd recommended reviewers (6000), so their results are different from hub's as a result. man their thumbnails and titles are grating gonna be fun to finally enable rebar some some additional performance uplift when or if i get a new gpu kliras fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Sep 26, 2022 |
# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:36 |
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HUB is also the only reviewer I've seen that's found the 7600X, or any Zen4 CPU, to be ahead of the 5800X3D on average in gaming. I guess it's a test suite thing.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:51 |
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Rinkles posted:If you want your system quiet, I guess you're gonna have to create a weird looking fan profile for these cpus.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:55 |
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some super nerdy analysis of the avx-512 capabilities of zen 4 btw: https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?p=614191
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 15:56 |
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Combat Pretzel posted:The goddamn PBO ratchet was already annoying as gently caress, so it's getting worse now? AIO it is then. the right move may be to manually cap power in almost all cases since apparently marginal performance per additional watt is just goofy at the top if that anandtech test is representative
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 16:03 |
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BurritoJustice posted:HUB is also the only reviewer I've seen that's found the 7600X, or any Zen4 CPU, to be ahead of the 5800X3D on average in gaming. I guess it's a test suite thing. 5800x3d was always a bit use case dependent in gaming. “Bad” games for performance are usually “bad” because there’s too much code that needs to be close to the CPU. Flight sims and strategy games are two examples - I keep saying this but it’s a truly dramatic change in paradox grand strategy games, presumably because you can have the entire rules and info in cache. “Better” games for performance may have been optimized for say the PS4 with a mere 2 MB of L2 available to a single given core. Games optimized for that may not see as dramatic gains because they were designed not to have a bottleneck there. (XBOne is a bit harder to compare I suppose but it had 32MB of the weird ram that’s 1/5th the speed and higher latency than the 96MB of l3 on an x3d)
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 16:03 |
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could also be a ram thing, the 5800X3D generally is wildly atypically not responsive to system memory for a ryzen chip (it will perform suprisingly great on a single channel of stock speed DDR4 loving somehow) so if different testing suites use different memory configurations it could lead to a different gap in the performance that would be static with the X3D
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 16:07 |
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hobbesmaster posted:(XBOne is a bit harder to compare I suppose but it had 32MB of the weird ram that’s 1/5th the speed and higher latency than the 96MB of l3 on an x3d) AFAIK the XB1 ESRAM was nearly always allocated to GPU resources since that was so horribly starved for bandwidth otherwise, the CPU side didn't really benefit
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 16:07 |
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kliras posted:some super nerdy analysis of the avx-512 capabilities of zen 4 btw: https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?p=614191 quote:And it is basically impossible to hit the 230W power limit at stock without direct die or sub-ambient. Even non-professional reviewers notice the real thermal bottleneck. Delidding is back on the menu, boys. Those voltages look insane though. Can silicon really take that? People advised me to keep voltage on 32nm under 1.4V for 24/7 usage, and now we're putting 1.5V into 5nm?
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 16:07 |
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Its literally in the documentation AMD sent. With default configurations you will hit thermal limits before you hit power ones
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 16:12 |
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Twerk from Home posted:Even non-professional reviewers notice the real thermal bottleneck. Delidding is back on the menu, boys. Those voltages look insane though. Can silicon really take that? People advised me to keep voltage on 32nm under 1.4V for 24/7 usage, and now we're putting 1.5V into 5nm? With it this early that voltage reporting could just be wrong.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 16:20 |
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I would like motherboard reviews now please
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 16:46 |
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While the stock performance is impressive the stock power profile is dumb as poo poo. That is way too much power to win some benches. Those 65w TDP numbers are the real impressive bit out of this though. I wonder what a 105-140w TDP power limit bench would look like now. I'm guessing it'd get you 90-ish% of the stock power limit. I'm also still holding out some vague hope that they do a version with no IHS and just a shim to allow some stock direct die OC version. Stock shims work just fine at protecting GPU dies. It should do the same with CPU dies.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:03 |
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What a bizarre launch. Knew the thermals and power draw were gonna surprise people but holy poo poo AMD, lol. Gonna be funny to see the moving goalposts. Been saying for a while that people would need to get used to big temps and power, but didn’t think AMD would be the ones to go the old late Apple + Intel MacBook route and just squat at TJMax and regulate with boost clocks, but here we are! GNs 7950X all core powerdraw is nutty if you’ve got the cooling to let it go. I don’t know if this is the right call for a lot of people though. For us turbo dorks, sure. But are we really gonna expect normies to set BIOS power and fan profiles and poo poo? For content creation, the numbers speak for themselves, even single core. But the gaming numbers are strange and radically different across the reviews, which normally points to early BIOS issues. GN used a 1 revision old Asus BIOS and HUB is on MSI, for example. Some of these techtuber “reviews” are straight trash, too. Some of the most phoned in ones I’ve seen. I would be careful about comparing numbers between them. 12700k still looks competitive in price/performance in gaming vs the 7600X/7700X if you’ve got a microcenter, kinda surprised how well the 12700k hung on honestly. Expected the 7700X to blow it out, but the 12700K is more or less equal. 7900X seems like the part getting squeezed by the line up this time around. If you’re a gamer, unless you need something today, I would wait for Intels launch and the X3D parts, honestly. E: the phoned in techtubers weren’t GN or HUB to be clear, but like Jayz and Bitwit (who I can probably safely unfollow now) Cygni fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Sep 26, 2022 |
# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:09 |
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Hughmoris posted:Rookie question here: how easy is it for the layman to reduce CPU power? Is it a toggle button or does it involve lots of black magic? Assuming no huge changes from AM4 BIOSes: If you just want to drop power to AMD's "65W" Eco Mode, that's a toggle. If you want to set it to a specific value, you're looking for PPT (Package Power Tracking). This is likely going to be a text field, somewhere in the PBO section, which is probably in the Overclocking section, where ever that is in your specific BIOS. For me it's something like code:
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:09 |
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Offtopic of 7000-series chips, but possibly very relevant to them in certain situations: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-AMD-Old-Chipset-WA The Linux kernel has been hamstringing AMD CPUs for 20 years due to a badly-applied workaround for lovely Via chipsets.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:15 |
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Nah, im not waiting for raptor lake. Ill get a 7700x now and 3 years from now get the 10800x3d or whatever.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:20 |
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Twerk from Home posted:It's in the BIOS, it may be a specific number, or might be a selection from options. mdxi posted:Assuming no huge changes from AM4 BIOSes: Thanks!
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:25 |
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Cygni posted:But are we really gonna expect normies to set BIOS power and fan profiles and poo poo? Who exactly are the "normies" buying $700 CPUs for content creation but concerned about power usage?
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:26 |
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Nah, im not waiting for raptor lake. Ill get a 7700x now and 3 years from now get the 10800x3d or whatever. I'd wait a few weeks. You can find out the price/performance of Intel's solution, and the early adopters will let you know if there are any horrible bugs in AMD's new platform.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:27 |
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Nah, im not waiting for raptor lake. Ill get a 7700x now and 3 years from now get the 10800x3d or whatever. Even if you know you are going AMD, if you’re primarily a gamer, AMD has already said they have better products coming in like 3ish months. And both these parts and those X3D parts will have more price pressure from Intel. And you will get to skip the first 3 months of BIOS hell on a new platform, which can truly be awful. Unless you really need something right now or are into the production side of life, waiting a few months seems like good advice. But you can do what you want obvi! K8.0 posted:Who exactly are the "normies" buying $700 CPUs for content creation but concerned about power usage? The 7700X hits the same temps, and has the same fan speed issues.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:27 |
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mdxi posted:Offtopic of 7000-series chips, but possibly very relevant to them in certain situations: Who knew those lovely old chipsets would be the gift that kept on giving? Intel. Intel did not put up with that bullshit and dropped third party chipsets circa the pentium 4 era
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:29 |
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Cygni posted:
jay hates charts and it sure shows
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:47 |
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CoolCab posted:jay hates charts and it sure shows You could say he isn't a fan of Black Lines Matter.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 18:06 |
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Kibner posted:You could say he isn't a fan of Black Lines Matter. I also want to give LTT a hat tip, this was by far their best launch review of any CPU/GPU in a long time. Both the quality of the numbers, charts, comparisons, and even the straightforward shooting were much better than usual. They are explicitly gunning for GN, and this was a good step.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 18:16 |
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hobbesmaster posted:Who knew those lovely old chipsets would be the gift that kept on giving? don't forget about the nForce4 Intel edition lol
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 18:17 |
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Crunchy Black posted:don't forget about the nForce4 Intel edition lol Were those the ones with the tiny little chipset fans that seized and melted? I literally had a fan fall out of my case from one of those, if I recall correctly.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 18:19 |
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Ars has two articles today: a review of the 7950X and the 7600X, and then one that's an overview of the AM5 platform as a whole, with a lot of focus on the IOD than I've seen anywhere else. Most interesting bits for me:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/09/everything-you-need-to-know-about-zen-4-socket-am5-and-amds-newest-chipsets/
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 18:20 |
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# ? Apr 17, 2024 19:57 |
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hobbesmaster posted:Who knew those lovely old chipsets would be the gift that kept on giving? There's that, but there is probably old workaround kernel code for ancient Intel hardware as well. OTOH Intel didn't have a solid decade as an also-ran with no market share, so the old intel workarounds got disabled in a more timely fashion.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 18:36 |