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PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Klyith posted:

But it's also the wrong time to buy a fancy expensive future-proof mobo because the socket is now at the end of its run.
Nah. AM4 will probably be good all the way through 2020 and into mid-ish 2021 at least.

Late 2021 or mid-ish 2022 is when I'd expect AMD to go to DDR5 and switch sockets.

AMD tends to lag Intel by a fair amount when switching to a new memory standard.

Many of those new X570 mobo's are looking to be too drat expensive and probably aren't worth buying unless you plan on doing high end water cooling with one of the high core count Zen2's at a minimum though going by what Buildzoid has said. If you're just going to put a decent air HSF on one and let PBO do its thing I'd probably just recommend going with one of the better X470 mobo's for now.

pixaal posted:

But ddr5 might be expensive or only slow chips affordable. I remember the same thing around ddr4 launch with people picking ddr3 because it was faster and cheaper at that moment.
Yeah the DRAM OEM's expect DDR5 to remain pricey until mid-ish 2021 or so and then adoption rates are expected to pick up. Typically whenever a new RAM standard is released its fairly expensive and the only ones who really buy it are the server guys and it takes a year or so for it drop in price to saner levels and for the faster enough stuff to be really worth getting to come out.

Klyith posted:

David Kanter is satisfied to call it a new architecture, I think we can finally drop the "GCN rehash" burns.

Kanter is a really smart guy and normally I'd go with what he is saying but to me its still a GCN rehash much like Excavator was still a Bulldozer rehash even though they ended up redesigning large parts of the CPU and managed to get some fairly decent performance improvements out of it.

PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 17, 2019

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NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015

I have the impression that while right now some of the features on X570 are unappealing that AMD have provided a way to Ship of Theseus yourself for a long time. All that feature and socket compatibility will last a while, especially if they're capping off AM4 with PCIe 4.0 compatibility. That'll at least be current for a few years yet.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot
That's not what's happening though. Zen2+ will probably hit AM4, but whatever comes in 2021 is going to be new socket new ram new everything. Klyith is absolutely right that this generation in particular is about buying for your current build and not parts to go into anything for the future.

Beverly Cleavage
Jun 22, 2004

I am a pretty pretty princess, watch me do my pretty princess dance....

PC LOAD LETTER posted:


Many of those new X570 mobo's are looking to be too drat expensive and probably aren't worth buying unless you plan on doing high end water cooling with one of the high core count Zen2's at a minimum though going by what Buildzoid has said. If you're just going to put a decent air HSF on one and let PBO do its thing I'd probably just recommend going with one of the better X470 mobo's for now.

Yeah the DRAM OEM's expect DDR5 to remain pricey until mid-ish 2021 or so and then adoption rates are expected to pick up.


I'm building itx soon-ish. And these reasons are exactly why I'm planning on asus x470-i(dual m.2 to keep my 950 pro boot drive and add an intel 2tb m.2 for storage). I don't see pcie4 bringing anything to the table any time soon, even running dual m.2. A 2080ti would only be affected at a small percentage of the time at 8x pcie3.

Now the question.. stick with 3700x and some sort of air cooling, or bite the bullet on a 3800x and get an AIO... Not planning to OC much, if at all.. but the extra heat capacity of an AIO is tempting.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
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K8.0 posted:

That's not what's happening though. Zen2+ will probably hit AM4, but whatever comes in 2021 is going to be new socket new ram new everything. Klyith is absolutely right that this generation in particular is about buying for your current build and not parts to go into anything for the future.

There is supposedly no Zen2+, it's straight into Zen3 next year.

Also, one of the cute things about the way AMD have done this is that the chiplet dies don't know anything about the memory format directly, they just talk Infinity Fabric to the IO die. The IO die has all the PHYs to talk to the memory... so AMD could keep DDR4 compatibility for the cost of one additional IO die. Heck unless they make big breaking changes in the Infinity Fabric protocol, it may actually work with the current IO die.

As such I definitely wouldn't rule out DDR4 or future AM4 compatibility even into the Zen3 and later generations. Of course, AMD didn't even make Zen2 work on all their existing boards so there's no guarantee that even if they did, that Zen3 would work on all existing boards either... it could be a "you need to own X570 or newer" type deal too.

Just have to wait and see, and yeah, don't buy your system with the expectation of future upgrades, buy something you would be happy with even if it were the last thing on the platform. Generally upgrading CPUs every generation is not a good value anyway at this point, a high-end modern CPU should have 5 years in it easy.

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars


Plaster Town Cop

Paul MaudDib posted:

As such I definitely wouldn't rule out DDR4 or future AM4 compatibility even into the Zen3 and later generations. Of course, AMD didn't even make Zen2 work on all their existing boards so there's no guarantee that even if they did, that Zen3 would work on all existing boards either... it could be a "you need to own X570 or newer" type deal too.
There's one important piece of information to remember when it comes to AMD motherboards and compatibility: The same-socket promise was for MB makers, not consumers. They were coming off the garbage construction cores that were bought by fanboys and suckers and had no volume. The promise was trying to get Asrock, Asus etc to build boards by saying "Look, take a chance on us, we promise you won't get stuck with a bunch of expensive sockets you can't use for anything".

That's why they don't particularly care if the chipsets work with newer processors, only that the socket will physically hold them.

AM5 will probably go to LGA like the TR4 is because they'll have a track record and can demand manufacturers use a more expensive socket for their parts, and I don't expect the next socket will have such a long promised life because the need for it is gone.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Beverly Cleavage posted:

Now the question.. stick with 3700x and some sort of air cooling, or bite the bullet on a 3800x and get an AIO... Not planning to OC much, if at all.. but the extra heat capacity of an AIO is tempting.
If you're not planning to OC much then I think the major benefit of a AIO (I'm assuming a 2x 120mm fan radiator version) would be noise reduction + similar cooling ability to a good air HSF.

Depending on the size of your case, your budget, etc. it might not be worth going with a AIO IMO.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Beverly Cleavage posted:

Now the question.. stick with 3700x and some sort of air cooling, or bite the bullet on a 3800x and get an AIO... Not planning to OC much, if at all.. but the extra heat capacity of an AIO is tempting.
Air and AIOs have competitive cooling and noise levels.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH

Khorne posted:

Air and AIOs have competitive cooling and noise levels.

You mean competitive between good air and average AIOs. Good air also tends to mean not insignificant bulk and could potentially give you DIMM clearance issues. Yes, radiators are probably even bulkier in comparison but they don't crowd the mobo in that same way.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
That newest Noctua cooler is relatively compact considering, and gives AIOs a run-around.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

Kanter is a really smart guy and normally I'd go with what he is saying but to me its still a GCN rehash much like Excavator was still a Bulldozer rehash even though they ended up redesigning large parts of the CPU and managed to get some fairly decent performance improvements out of it.

By that measure Zen is also a Bulldozer rehash.

Harik posted:

There's one important piece of information to remember when it comes to AMD motherboards and compatibility: The same-socket promise was for MB makers, not consumers. They were coming off the garbage construction cores that were bought by fanboys and suckers and had no volume. The promise was trying to get Asrock, Asus etc to build boards by saying "Look, take a chance on us, we promise you won't get stuck with a bunch of expensive sockets you can't use for anything".

That's why they don't particularly care if the chipsets work with newer processors, only that the socket will physically hold them.

AM5 will probably go to LGA like the TR4 is because they'll have a track record and can demand manufacturers use a more expensive socket for their parts, and I don't expect the next socket will have such a long promised life because the need for it is gone.

I feel like forward compatibility brought a lot of people out of the mentality of upgrading CPUs only once in a decade so AMD would be foolish to kill it off completely. I know I wouldn't have built a system around a 2600 if I couldn't drop in one of the Zen2 chips a year later.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Arzachel posted:

By that measure Zen is also a Bulldozer rehash.

So by your measure Coffeelake is a 90's era P6?

Beverly Cleavage
Jun 22, 2004

I am a pretty pretty princess, watch me do my pretty princess dance....

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

If you're not planning to OC much then I think the major benefit of a AIO (I'm assuming a 2x 120mm fan radiator version) would be noise reduction + similar cooling ability to a good air HSF.

Depending on the size of your case, your budget, etc. it might not be worth going with a AIO IMO.

Khorne posted:

Air and AIOs have competitive cooling and noise levels.

I've got an Ncase M1(v5) I picked up w/ a SF600 and 1080ti for a fair price. (I even have gone ahead and got my hands on a set of these: raised feet in anticipation of optimizing airflow regardless of setup.)

The lower base-clock of the 3700x (and likely more manageable cooling) would probably pair up w/ a NH-U9S pretty well.

My gut is telling me a 3800x would be harder to keep under control without under-volting or capping output without something like a 240mm AIO. There are certainly other air options here.. c14s seems possible, but I'm hesitant...

That said, this is all theoretical until benchmarks/testing are released anyways.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Arzachel posted:

By that measure Zen is also a Bulldozer rehash.

At best RDNA is a re-imagining of the Shader Engine layout for better occupancy. It's very similar to part of the redesign NVIDIA did for the Kepler->Maxwell transition, and is a "new architecture" in the same sense Maxwell is a "new architecture". It is still, in a very real sense, a GCN descendant, just like Maxwell is a Fermi descendant. Saying it is still a GCN descendant is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as AMD is making big changes that keep improving performance. The problem is, they have a long long way to go, because NVIDIA hasn't been sitting still.

It is more of a shakeup than the Bulldozer->Excavator transitions though. That's just opening up architectural bottlenecks for the most part, which is more along the lines of what AMD has spent the last 8 years doing with GCN.

In contrast Zen is a straight-up redesign of the whole thing. Throw away the whole thing and start over.

The whole "does it share an ISA" discussion is pointless. They could change the ISA, or not change the ISA, but big changes will change the underlying performance characteristics (that's the whole point!) and optimizations for RDNA will no longer work well for GCN, just like Maxwell optimizations didn't work well for Kepler.

The compromise they've settled on for this generation of consoles is letting it run in both modes, there is a legacy mode for stuff that people still play, and a RDNA mode to go forward, and by the time they go pure RDNA on consoles in another 5 years then they will just be able to brute-force the old stuff even if the code isn't optimal anymore.

Arzachel posted:

I feel like forward compatibility brought a lot of people out of the mentality of upgrading CPUs only once in a decade so AMD would be foolish to kill it off completely. I know I wouldn't have built a system around a 2600 if I couldn't drop in one of the Zen2 chips a year later.

Forward-compatibility has been an AMD selling point for a long time, and it's still not a good deal. You bought a 2600 for what, $150, and you're going to buy a 3600 for another $200? Meaning you've spent $350 for 8700K-level performance that you could have gotten two years ago. Or if you went up to an 8-core... you spent $150 on the 2600 and $350 on the 3700X, so you've spent $500 and gotten... basically 9900K level performance.

The cost of buying two processors pretty much kills any bargain you'd get from upgrading, and AMD processors have super lovely resale values.

Buying 1000 -> 3000 is a better deal though, as long as you were comfortable with the single-thread perf you had in the meantime, because Intel didn't really have good high-core-count offerings (except 5820K) up to that point.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 17, 2019

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Klyith posted:

Remember that der8auer's definition of "overclocking" is very different than most people's.


So when you look at everything the chipset offers, they're not overpriced. But it's also the wrong time to buy a fancy expensive future-proof mobo because the socket is now at the end of its run.

With both AMD and Zen proving themselves, the time to splurge will be x670 (or whatever) with a new AM5 Zen3 and DDR5.
I'm halfway thinking of just getting an x470 for just this reason.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

pixaal posted:

But ddr5 might be expensive or only slow chips affordable. I remember the same thing around ddr4 launch with people picking ddr3 because it was faster and cheaper at that moment.

DDR5 is a much bigger step up in bandwidth than usual so I doubt it will be slower than DDR4 at launch but yeah it will probably be expensive.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

Combat Pretzel posted:

That newest Noctua cooler is relatively compact considering, and gives AIOs a run-around.

It’s more compact in the bulk sense, but the U12a is still 158mm tall with its fan, which is only 2mm less than the D15s.

If an ITX case can fit a 240mm radiator, that’ll usually offer better cooling than the air coolers that can fit (the M2 is restricted to 130mm).

eames
May 9, 2009

ilkhan posted:

I'm halfway thinking of just getting an x470 for just this reason.

Even AMD pitches the X470 as the midrange solution if you believe the MSI CEO's comments.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010

loves Fat Philippe
Is there a functional difference between the X470 and a B450 if you don't intend to use extra pci-e stuff or mad overclocking? I'm just gonna have a gfx card and a couple SSDs probably.

eames
May 9, 2009

I believe SLI is the main chipset difference but that's pretty irrelevant these days.
My main concern would be that most B450 boards come with very cheap 4-phase VRMs and I doubt those will handle Prime95 with a stock 16C Zen2 without exiting in a puff of smoke. Many of the budget boards don't even have thermal throttling circuits.

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

Beverly Cleavage posted:

I've got an Ncase M1(v5) I picked up w/ a SF600 and 1080ti for a fair price. (I even have gone ahead and got my hands on a set of these: raised feet in anticipation of optimizing airflow regardless of setup.)

The lower base-clock of the 3700x (and likely more manageable cooling) would probably pair up w/ a NH-U9S pretty well.

My gut is telling me a 3800x would be harder to keep under control without under-volting or capping output without something like a 240mm AIO. There are certainly other air options here.. c14s seems possible, but I'm hesitant...

That said, this is all theoretical until benchmarks/testing are released anyways.

There is always the possibility that the 3800X is also better binned and will run at the same clocks at the 3700X but as lower voltages. I have a Ncase M1 as well with a 2600X and am waiting to see these benchmarks for voltage/clock curve efficiency.

Beverly Cleavage
Jun 22, 2004

I am a pretty pretty princess, watch me do my pretty princess dance....

B-Mac posted:

There is always the possibility that the 3800X is also better binned and will run at the same clocks at the 3700X but as lower voltages. I have a Ncase M1 as well with a 2600X and am waiting to see these benchmarks for voltage/clock curve efficiency.

Also possible.

I'm basically in my old habit of wanting to do it perfectly once and leave it for awhile (a few years hopefully- I built my current rig in oct '16, and just have the itch to get rid of the tower under the desk that's in the way). So I'm obsessing over all the little details since I haven't done SFF builds before. Just happens to coincide w/ zen2 launch, so I'm reading over everything I can get my hands on until launch and will finalize parts then.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012

Paul MaudDib posted:

At best RDNA is a re-imagining of the Shader Engine layout for better occupancy. It's very similar to part of the redesign NVIDIA did for the Kepler->Maxwell transition, and is a "new architecture" in the same sense Maxwell is a "new architecture". It is still, in a very real sense, a GCN descendant, just like Maxwell is a Fermi descendant. Saying it is still a GCN descendant is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as AMD is making big changes that keep improving performance. The problem is, they have a long long way to go, because NVIDIA hasn't been sitting still.

It is more of a shakeup than the Bulldozer->Excavator transitions though. That's just opening up architectural bottlenecks for the most part, which is more along the lines of what AMD has spent the last 8 years doing with GCN.

In contrast Zen is a straight-up redesign of the whole thing. Throw away the whole thing and start over.

The whole "does it share an ISA" discussion is pointless. They could change the ISA, or not change the ISA, but big changes will change the underlying performance characteristics (that's the whole point!) and optimizations for RDNA will no longer work well for GCN, just like Maxwell optimizations didn't work well for Kepler.

The compromise they've settled on for this generation of consoles is letting it run in both modes, there is a legacy mode for stuff that people still play, and a RDNA mode to go forward, and by the time they go pure RDNA on consoles in another 5 years then they will just be able to brute-force the old stuff even if the code isn't optimal anymore.

The Kepler->Maxwell comparison doesn't hold water. Yeah, they're changing the way the stream processors are partitioned but then they're also doubling up on schedulers and scalar units per CU and also changing wavefront size (something Nvidia has never done) and going from executing a wavefront in 4 clocks to executing a wavefront in 1/2 clocks (I think Nvidia reduced warp execution from 2 clocks to 1 with Kepler which let them ditch the double pumped cuda cores) so there's much less latency hiding and size and bandwidth requirements for caches are different.

quote:

Forward-compatibility has been an AMD selling point for a long time, and it's still not a good deal. You bought a 2600 for what, $150, and you're going to buy a 3600 for another $200? Meaning you've spent $350 for 8700K-level performance that you could have gotten two years ago. Or if you went up to an 8-core... you spent $150 on the 2600 and $350 on the 3700X, so you've spent $500 and gotten... basically 9900K level performance.

The cost of buying two processors pretty much kills any bargain you'd get from upgrading, and AMD processors have super lovely resale values.

Basically 9900k performance without melting down the Node 202 it's going into sounds pretty good :v:

It doesn't have to be a good deal, it just has to trick the lizard brain into thinking that it's a good deal because people aren't cost/value solvers and It's easier to rationalize purchases when there's less sticker shock.

Arzachel fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 17, 2019

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!
Everyone here is smarter than David Kanter I see, lmao.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

It's worth noting that Zen resale hasn't been good because current and future processors work with existing boards, so you don't have people throwing good money after bad buying top end processors from years ago to get more life out of their old motherboard. Whenever the top end AM4 processor winds up being will hold value better than any Zen or Zen+ will.

surf rock
Aug 12, 2007

We need more women in STEM, and by that, I mean skateboarding, television, esports, and magic.
I'm planning on getting the 3900X, so that's 12 cores. The discussion I've seen around the X570 motherboards is that it doesn't make sense unless you're also going with the 12 or 16 core CPUs and planning to overclock, which I am.

For anyone who's in a similar boat, have you found an X570 motherboard that you think is a good value performance-wise?

edit: Also, what do people think of the be quiet! - Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler to go with the 3900X?

surf rock fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jun 17, 2019

Spiderdrake
May 12, 2001



surf rock posted:

For anyone who's in a similar boat, have you found an X570 motherboard that you think is a good value performance-wise?
Well no because prices are still not confirmed, supply isn't confirmed and X470 overclocking isn't ruled out just yet. There's a point where overclocking is just wasting money after all. I'd like the 12 core but I'm not going to line up to get gouged.

Also I'd like to know how much money should go into the ram for ideal price/performance. That's a big one for X470 too, or maybe that forces X570?

But the childlike technofetishist hiding in my brain does love how 90s the STEEL LEGEND looks so maybe I'll just buy that.

sports
Sep 1, 2012
the aorus series looks nice

eames
May 9, 2009

Micron apparently showed some new RAM chips running at DDR4-5133 in a 24/7 setting and it is probably no accident that the AMD slides mentioned the same number. Might want to keep an eye out for that as it would make B-die look quite old.

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 29, 2011

I don't know what this thing is, and I don't care. I'm just tired of seeing your stupid newbie av from 2011.

surf rock posted:

edit: Also, what do people think of the be quiet! - Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler to go with the 3900X?

I have the Dark Rock Pro 4 on my 8086K and it is fantastic

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
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Dark Rock 4 and Dark Rock Pro 4 are very different coolers. The former is basically a single tower like a Noctua U14, the latter is a dual tower like the D15.

A third-party seller on Newegg has Crosshair VI Hero refurbs for $100. It's got a 320A VRM, it seems like it might do OK with Zen2. The VII Hero would obviously be better but those are still $250+.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jun 17, 2019

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




mdxi posted:

I'm doing prep work for my All-Generations Ryzen Real-World Workload Numbers-O-Rama (Don't Call It A Benchmark).

The one workload I'm interested in seeing is nodes per second from free chess engine Stockfish if there is any chance you would add it to your battery of tests.

surf rock
Aug 12, 2007

We need more women in STEM, and by that, I mean skateboarding, television, esports, and magic.

Paul MaudDib posted:

Dark Rock 4 and Dark Rock Pro 4 are very different coolers.

They're super close in price, so I would be happy to go with the latter, but the latter just visually seems huge to me? I won't have an open case so I don't care about the visual element of it, but I'm not sure how to figure out just on a literal level whether or not it would fit in my planned case (Nanoxia Deep Silence 3 ATX Mid Tower).

Llamadeus
Dec 20, 2005
If you're seriously planning on overclocking a 12-core, then you could even argue that neither is big enough and you might as well step up to a D15/D15S (or its successor) or beyond (>240mm liquid coolers).

Llamadeus fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jun 17, 2019

Drakhoran
Oct 21, 2012

surf rock posted:

They're super close in price, so I would be happy to go with the latter, but the latter just visually seems huge to me? I won't have an open case so I don't care about the visual element of it, but I'm not sure how to figure out just on a literal level whether or not it would fit in my planned case (Nanoxia Deep Silence 3 ATX Mid Tower).

According to the spec sheet the Deep Silence 3 can handle coolers up to 165 mm tall. The Dark Rock PRO 4 claims to be only 162.8 mm.

surf rock
Aug 12, 2007

We need more women in STEM, and by that, I mean skateboarding, television, esports, and magic.

Llamadeus posted:

If you're seriously planning on overclocking a 12-core, then you could even argue that neither is big enough and you might as well step up to a D15/D15S (or its successor) or beyond (>240mm liquid coolers).

I don't plan to go crazy with the overclocking, and if it doesn't work well, I'll just leave it be and go with the default performance. But I do want to try to see if I can eke out a little extra, at least.

Drakhoran posted:

According to the spec sheet the Deep Silence 3 can handle coolers up to 165 mm tall. The Dark Rock PRO 4 claims to be only 162.8 mm.

Ooh, close. I hadn't found that spec sheet, that's super helpful. Thank you!

EDIT:

sports posted:

the aorus series looks nice

I've been looking closer at the spec sheets for these, and I think the X570 Aorus Pro WiFi or the Ultra is going to be what I want. The latter is apparently going to be $300; I haven't found pricing for the former yet.

surf rock fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jun 18, 2019

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
Zen resale has been terrible because I've been flushing my machines to people who have been running crap machines and are in dire need of cheap upgrades, instead of selling any of them.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Zen resale has been terrible because I've been flushing my machines to people who have been running crap machines and are in dire need of cheap upgrades, instead of selling any of them.
It also seems terrible because no one is selling them for less than microcenter does new.

And AMD actually cuts prices on previous gens unlike Intel.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jun 18, 2019

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013

Oh Boy Desert Map

eames posted:

Micron apparently showed some new RAM chips running at DDR4-5133 in a 24/7 setting and it is probably no accident that the AMD slides mentioned the same number. Might want to keep an eye out for that as it would make B-die look quite old.

Hello what's this and where is your source

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MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

surf rock posted:

I don't plan to go crazy with the overclocking, and if it doesn't work well, I'll just leave it be and go with the default performance. But I do want to try to see if I can eke out a little extra, at least.

The good thing about Ryzen is that if you want lazy overclocking just enable PBO, last gen it mostly improved all core clocks but it looks like this time around it's gonna give up to 200MHz to single core turbo as well. Even as someone who loves to gently caress around with OCing and settings all day I have a feeling I will end up just going with PBO in the end unless Ryzen has way more OC headroom than I am assuming.

MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jun 18, 2019

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