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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

Misc posted:

Is there really much to the argument in the OP that gaming performance is expected to improve because the consoles are operating on 8 threads? That's a point I literally bought into with bulldozer, which was a poor gamble vs just buying whatever the Intel equivalent was and overclocking the hell out of it. There doesn't seem to be an incentive for developers to optimize for any more than a maximum of 8 threads when that's all the consoles have had for a hot minute and will continue to have until at least the next console gen.

Well, bulldozer did improve over time. Just not enough to make up for it's awful handicap at the start. At least when compared to bulldozer, you can look at ryzen and say it's not a ton of performance difference in average real-world gameplay.

Definitely when looking at the R5s and comparing to a 4c/4t 7600K at about the same price, it seems like there should be something to be gained. It's not a slam dunk though, so if all you care about is games you should weigh the current performance vs potential gain vs intangibles like mobo quality and watts consumed (intel advantage) or total system cost (amd advantage).

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

EdEddnEddy posted:

Ooo didn't know that.

I was all bought into the Creative EAX crap back when the X-Gamer 5.1 was the thing. Playing Thief and MDK2 with EAX was pretty fun back in the day.

Still love my Klipsch's though. Replaced the woofer and a few resisters over the years, but they still sound bad rear end. Though I am getting ready to drop my X-Fi Creative stuff for Onboard soon. Freaking drivers continue to get worse and the Creator Update sort of broke them, again. (Static all over the place unless you use the Support Pack 3.5)

I've had one of the Asus xonar cards for years now and been very happy with it. Though if you don't use headphones the mobo audio is probably indistinguishable. (Or maybe if you use mic in for voip or game chat or whatever. I had to pay attention to hear anything bad with my mobo audio out, but the mic in was obvious and terrible.)

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

Wait, ryzen's 4/4 structure is not internal to the chip, but rather from 2 4 core dies? No loving wonder

no it's one die, that's just 2 squares of solder material in that dissected pic

probably easier during manufacture for whatever reason. the midline between the two halves if the low-energy stuff, so it doesn't matter.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

FaustianQ posted:

Ryzen is apparently related to the cat cores or at least began it's design stages as "make cat cores better".
It's almost comical how much bulldozer->jaguar-> repeats the path of netburst->yonah->Core

FaustianQ posted:

I'm still flummoxed on why the Scorpio went with Jaguar, and not Puma+ or even the rumored Basilisk if they were going have an issue with Zen cores. It's not even like Zen would be particularly throttled in performance here, they could easily do 8 cores at 2.5Ghz or 4 cores at 3.0Ghz and still be inside the overclocked Jaguar core thermal envelope, Zens just that much better of a design.

Besides time constraints as fishmech said, there's lots more up-front money for the design costs there, especially if there's anything semi-custom in the Jaguar cores (it wouldn't be at all surprising to have some DRM features added to a console). GPU seems sufficiently abstracted in the current consoles that it's just a drop-in replacement. Plus, more CPU is harder for game devs to take advantage of in ways that are 100% compatible with the old console. They don't want games having different feature sets on the different models.

So a scorpio with a better CPU would kinda only use it to do 60FPS on a title which would otherwise be CPU-limited to 30 despite the new GPU. Nice, but not worth the cost.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

EoRaptor posted:

It's all about positioning for OEM's.

Strikes me as odd that OEMs would care about thunderbolt 3 if the market doesn't have anything to use it for.

But as cover for whatever the current Intel incentives are for OEMs, it's good enough. I'm not optimistic about mobile Ryzen just because I expect the same pattern from the last 5 years to continue. The bulldozer family was awful, but some AMD mobile chips have had decent prospects. They always show up a year late and in really compromised designs for some strange reason. Same thing will happen with raven ridge, just watch.


Paul MaudDib posted:

So basically like FreeSync then?

you can't use allears on something that's actually good boyo

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

eames posted:



Part of me hopes that Vega will be extremely efficient for cryptocurrency stuff so AMD can sell terrible GPUs with GTX 1070 level gaming performance and 250W power consumption at ridiculous prices and they still won't be able to keep them in stock. Man that'd be a hilarious turn of events.

It's happened multiple times over the years. 480 was going for 20% over MSPR shortly after launch due to buttminers.

It's nice for AMD short-term sales numbers but I think somewhat bad long term. AMD can say they have more market share of GPUs sold, but if it's 20% on steam hardware survey and other publisher statistics, game devs will make the rational choice to put more work into nvidia optimization. And AMD isn't the one getting the bonus revenue from cards selling above MSRP.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

repiv posted:

That's a good point. I'm wondering what the spead out design means for cooling though, having to buy a special heatsink with an XXL contact surface would be annoying (and more expensive due to low volume).

yeah it'll definitely make aftermarket coolers more expensive, but you're buying an $800 cpu. suck it up.


also evidently the heat spreader plate is way bigger than the CPU area. compare this pic of the 4-die epyc, even that clusters the dies fairly centrally. so waterblocks and some standard coolers may work ok if they have enough contact area to cover the chips. the trouble will be mounting them.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

Saukkis posted:

There's also the question of if you are upgrading from i3-6100 would something like i5-7600K or i7-7700K be a better option than an R7 system. You could skip buying a new motherboard.

when guys have been posting a bunch of prices in euros and hungarian ft it's also good to forget assumptions like these. between regional price differences and VAT exaggerating the spread between two prices, it's entirely possible that a 7700k *does* cost more than a ryzen + new mobo for him.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

OTOH the XoxOX0XXX is $500 so I wouldn't count on a whole lot of games building direct support for it's special features, unless they're so well-supported by the OS that doing so is effectively free. Other than MS first-party of course (all 5 of them).

Which is a shame, because it would be cool if freesync became the default enough that nvidia had to support it.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

FaustianQ posted:

There has to be a lot going down right now between AMD and Intel right now. Like WTF.

If I was intel right now, I'd be looking at AMD and saying "they're not my competition, they're my partner in keeping x86 relevant"

The worst AMD can do to Intel is take some market share. OTOH every phone in the world has an ARM chip, and every compsci grad student just bought an nvidia card to run deep learning projects. That's what would frighten me a lot more than AMD.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

Possible that Ryzen The Next Generation is mostly just the desktop APU version (plus the process tweaks)?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

Drakhoran posted:

People with AMD processors should keep an eye out for UEFI updates. Just as with the Intel Managemen Engine, AMD's security features appears to be not entirely secure.

people with AMD processors can disable PSP/TPM in the bios

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

FaustianQ posted:

April is not that far, and if you haven't invested now, better to wait for the 400 series boards and 2000 series processors. Unless you need it now, IMHO better to wait.

$250 is a drat good price though -- the question is, why such a deep discount and what does it mean about how good zen+ will be?

one possibility is that zen+ is gonna be a great improvement (like into the 4.5ghz zone), and the cut now is reflecting the new price/performance to expect from that. they're selling old zen for a song because they're about to get totally outclassed. the other possibility is that zen+ is a more modest bump and the discount is more to clear inventory because they overproduced in late 2017. also, they were handing out 8-core 1600s recently, the cheap 1700 may just be trying to push people into just buying a drat 8-core. they seem to have plenty!

so in the first case you get a cheap 8 core now but miss out on the future 6 core with much better single-thread performance. so for a gamer who cares about the comparison to coffee lake, definitely wait until we start getting news or previews of the new chip. a non-gamer can either buy now or wait a bit, depending on what type of workload you have and how much you need the new pc right away.

in the second scenario the 1700 sale is a better deal than where zen+ will be introduced at and buying ahead of zen+ is actually the smart move.

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

What, realistically, is expected of the respin, is the new process likely to really allow clocks of around 4.3ish, something like that?

IMHO I really doubt it, it's a process tweak and a design tweak. If there was that type of potential available, AMD & Gloflo really hosed it the first time around.

Which is why I think the most likely reason the 1700 is selling for $250 is that their yield is so good they are oversupplied on functional 8 core chips. There's obvious evidence to support that. And that could totally reset when they switch to zen+. Meaning that buying now isn't totally crazy if the $250 in april is back to buying a 6 core.

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