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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Misc posted:

Is there really much to the argument in the OP that gaming performance is expected to improve because the consoles are operating on 8 threads? That's a point I literally bought into with bulldozer, which was a poor gamble vs just buying whatever the Intel equivalent was and overclocking the hell out of it. There doesn't seem to be an incentive for developers to optimize for any more than a maximum of 8 threads when that's all the consoles have had for a hot minute and will continue to have until at least the next console gen.

Well, bulldozer did improve over time. Just not enough to make up for it's awful handicap at the start. At least when compared to bulldozer, you can look at ryzen and say it's not a ton of performance difference in average real-world gameplay.

Definitely when looking at the R5s and comparing to a 4c/4t 7600K at about the same price, it seems like there should be something to be gained. It's not a slam dunk though, so if all you care about is games you should weigh the current performance vs potential gain vs intangibles like mobo quality and watts consumed (intel advantage) or total system cost (amd advantage).

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


EdEddnEddy posted:

Ooo didn't know that.

I was all bought into the Creative EAX crap back when the X-Gamer 5.1 was the thing. Playing Thief and MDK2 with EAX was pretty fun back in the day.

Still love my Klipsch's though. Replaced the woofer and a few resisters over the years, but they still sound bad rear end. Though I am getting ready to drop my X-Fi Creative stuff for Onboard soon. Freaking drivers continue to get worse and the Creator Update sort of broke them, again. (Static all over the place unless you use the Support Pack 3.5)

I've had one of the Asus xonar cards for years now and been very happy with it. Though if you don't use headphones the mobo audio is probably indistinguishable. (Or maybe if you use mic in for voip or game chat or whatever. I had to pay attention to hear anything bad with my mobo audio out, but the mic in was obvious and terrible.)

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

Wait, ryzen's 4/4 structure is not internal to the chip, but rather from 2 4 core dies? No loving wonder

no it's one die, that's just 2 squares of solder material in that dissected pic

probably easier during manufacture for whatever reason. the midline between the two halves if the low-energy stuff, so it doesn't matter.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


FaustianQ posted:

Ryzen is apparently related to the cat cores or at least began it's design stages as "make cat cores better".
It's almost comical how much bulldozer->jaguar-> repeats the path of netburst->yonah->Core

FaustianQ posted:

I'm still flummoxed on why the Scorpio went with Jaguar, and not Puma+ or even the rumored Basilisk if they were going have an issue with Zen cores. It's not even like Zen would be particularly throttled in performance here, they could easily do 8 cores at 2.5Ghz or 4 cores at 3.0Ghz and still be inside the overclocked Jaguar core thermal envelope, Zens just that much better of a design.

Besides time constraints as fishmech said, there's lots more up-front money for the design costs there, especially if there's anything semi-custom in the Jaguar cores (it wouldn't be at all surprising to have some DRM features added to a console). GPU seems sufficiently abstracted in the current consoles that it's just a drop-in replacement. Plus, more CPU is harder for game devs to take advantage of in ways that are 100% compatible with the old console. They don't want games having different feature sets on the different models.

So a scorpio with a better CPU would kinda only use it to do 60FPS on a title which would otherwise be CPU-limited to 30 despite the new GPU. Nice, but not worth the cost.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


EoRaptor posted:

It's all about positioning for OEM's.

Strikes me as odd that OEMs would care about thunderbolt 3 if the market doesn't have anything to use it for.

But as cover for whatever the current Intel incentives are for OEMs, it's good enough. I'm not optimistic about mobile Ryzen just because I expect the same pattern from the last 5 years to continue. The bulldozer family was awful, but some AMD mobile chips have had decent prospects. They always show up a year late and in really compromised designs for some strange reason. Same thing will happen with raven ridge, just watch.


Paul MaudDib posted:

So basically like FreeSync then?

you can't use allears on something that's actually good boyo

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


eames posted:



Part of me hopes that Vega will be extremely efficient for cryptocurrency stuff so AMD can sell terrible GPUs with GTX 1070 level gaming performance and 250W power consumption at ridiculous prices and they still won't be able to keep them in stock. Man that'd be a hilarious turn of events.

It's happened multiple times over the years. 480 was going for 20% over MSPR shortly after launch due to buttminers.

It's nice for AMD short-term sales numbers but I think somewhat bad long term. AMD can say they have more market share of GPUs sold, but if it's 20% on steam hardware survey and other publisher statistics, game devs will make the rational choice to put more work into nvidia optimization. And AMD isn't the one getting the bonus revenue from cards selling above MSRP.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


repiv posted:

That's a good point. I'm wondering what the spead out design means for cooling though, having to buy a special heatsink with an XXL contact surface would be annoying (and more expensive due to low volume).

yeah it'll definitely make aftermarket coolers more expensive, but you're buying an $800 cpu. suck it up.


also evidently the heat spreader plate is way bigger than the CPU area. compare this pic of the 4-die epyc, even that clusters the dies fairly centrally. so waterblocks and some standard coolers may work ok if they have enough contact area to cover the chips. the trouble will be mounting them.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Saukkis posted:

There's also the question of if you are upgrading from i3-6100 would something like i5-7600K or i7-7700K be a better option than an R7 system. You could skip buying a new motherboard.

when guys have been posting a bunch of prices in euros and hungarian ft it's also good to forget assumptions like these. between regional price differences and VAT exaggerating the spread between two prices, it's entirely possible that a 7700k *does* cost more than a ryzen + new mobo for him.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


OTOH the XoxOX0XXX is $500 so I wouldn't count on a whole lot of games building direct support for it's special features, unless they're so well-supported by the OS that doing so is effectively free. Other than MS first-party of course (all 5 of them).

Which is a shame, because it would be cool if freesync became the default enough that nvidia had to support it.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


FaustianQ posted:

There has to be a lot going down right now between AMD and Intel right now. Like WTF.

If I was intel right now, I'd be looking at AMD and saying "they're not my competition, they're my partner in keeping x86 relevant"

The worst AMD can do to Intel is take some market share. OTOH every phone in the world has an ARM chip, and every compsci grad student just bought an nvidia card to run deep learning projects. That's what would frighten me a lot more than AMD.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Possible that Ryzen The Next Generation is mostly just the desktop APU version (plus the process tweaks)?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Drakhoran posted:

People with AMD processors should keep an eye out for UEFI updates. Just as with the Intel Managemen Engine, AMD's security features appears to be not entirely secure.

people with AMD processors can disable PSP/TPM in the bios

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


FaustianQ posted:

April is not that far, and if you haven't invested now, better to wait for the 400 series boards and 2000 series processors. Unless you need it now, IMHO better to wait.

$250 is a drat good price though -- the question is, why such a deep discount and what does it mean about how good zen+ will be?

one possibility is that zen+ is gonna be a great improvement (like into the 4.5ghz zone), and the cut now is reflecting the new price/performance to expect from that. they're selling old zen for a song because they're about to get totally outclassed. the other possibility is that zen+ is a more modest bump and the discount is more to clear inventory because they overproduced in late 2017. also, they were handing out 8-core 1600s recently, the cheap 1700 may just be trying to push people into just buying a drat 8-core. they seem to have plenty!

so in the first case you get a cheap 8 core now but miss out on the future 6 core with much better single-thread performance. so for a gamer who cares about the comparison to coffee lake, definitely wait until we start getting news or previews of the new chip. a non-gamer can either buy now or wait a bit, depending on what type of workload you have and how much you need the new pc right away.

in the second scenario the 1700 sale is a better deal than where zen+ will be introduced at and buying ahead of zen+ is actually the smart move.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

What, realistically, is expected of the respin, is the new process likely to really allow clocks of around 4.3ish, something like that?

IMHO I really doubt it, it's a process tweak and a design tweak. If there was that type of potential available, AMD & Gloflo really hosed it the first time around.

Which is why I think the most likely reason the 1700 is selling for $250 is that their yield is so good they are oversupplied on functional 8 core chips. There's obvious evidence to support that. And that could totally reset when they switch to zen+. Meaning that buying now isn't totally crazy if the $250 in april is back to buying a 6 core.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


between cryptominers and all the people with sandy/ivy bridge PCs that didn't need to upgrade their system for 6 straight years, I'd bet demand for the parts-builder market is huge

but nobody wants to ramp production that high because it's a super risky investment if demand crashes


Measly Twerp posted:

Have we talked about this? It puts into question how reliable of a source PC Perspective is since they've accepted money to write reviews and not disclosed it to the public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw0ZzA9wTFE

AMD also had a 'buy' button on their website that included PC Perspective as an Amazon affiliate.

video has now been taken down

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


SwissArmyDruid posted:

Oh, since we have a real-world example of it, if you wanted an example of how AMD could dodge the poison pill in their x86 license:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/29/vmw...ic-markets.html

a. reverse-mergers only work between a private company and a public one, so the private company would need to wealthy enough to buy AMD in a reverse merger, then subsequently buy Company X that you want to merge AMD with.

b. the license agreement specifically defines by ownership of the company such that any entity owning more than 50% of the company constitutes a Change of Control. AMD had to get clever just to make that work with just the GloFo spinoff (by splitting GloFo's voting rights and assets differently), you'd need to be way more clever to go the other direction.


the x86 license deal isn't impossible to evade, just fantastically expensive in legal bullshit.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Cygni posted:

Hot take: VRM's really don't matter much unless you are running big voltage increases, or the chip needs a ton of power just at stock (like an x299 or x399)

For a normal overclock with a normal desktop CPU, I haven't found it to make a huge difference at all. You end up hitting other limiting factors before the VRM most of the time. I may be wrong, but thats my personal experience.

Yeah, same. I've been happy with MSI for quite some time because even though they use a lot of cheap 50-cent power components, it only matters when you start drawing way more power than the stock CPU they're targeting. I'll take the easy 10% OC or whatever is available with stock voltage, which is what the average MSI board is good for.

As soon as you start pumping extra volts and 150 watts through them they're crap, or at least that's what der8aurer says. I wouldn't know, I don't put 150 watts into my CPU.


SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

I mean if you're passing up literally free performance
it's free if you find tweaking bios settings for hours to be a entertaining hobby in and of itself. 10 years ago I was right there with you, but every new PC I build I spend less time on that stuff. For my current ryzen all I really fiddled with was RAM stuff.

If I really needed the extra performance I'd just spend the money for it


(OTOH I also stopped buying unlocked intel chips because the value wasn't there anymore. I have a 1600X now, but when I bought it the 1600 and X were the same price.)

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Twerk from Home posted:

A friend of mine is elbow deep in the poop, and because of GPU prices going up he's switched to buying quad-socket AMD Opteron 6380 servers. He's got 10 of them so far at I believe an average price a bit under $800 each. You mine the coins like Monero or Verium that aren't easy to GPU mine.

so how hard do you think you can laugh at him before he isn't your friend anymore?



Paul MaudDib posted:

professional mining ops

oh, are those the ones where they use metal ikea shelves instead of plywood and zipties or milk crates?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Cygni posted:

You can keep the HSF

on a related note, if I throw my stack of old stock heatsinks into the recycling, will they be able to do anything with them?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Combat Pretzel posted:

Over here in Belgium, if you bring an overabundance of copper to the recycler, they will want to have receipts of where you got that poo poo. So if you bring a lot of heatsinks to them, they might get antsy whether you stole that poo poo or not.

yeah it's like 6, not 100

but it's junk I'm not using and never will use in the future and I wanna get rid of it, but have always been loath to just trash it. guess I'll throw it in the recycling and hope for the best



New Zealand can eat me posted:

Saw this float by on r/amd, apparently Threadripper is bulletproof



wtf did the pump violently self-destruct or did someone actually shoot their pc?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Llamadeus posted:

Out of the current windowless cases, I like this one for being even sleeker than Fractal's cases: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/carbid...e-cc-9011100-ww

I have one. Got it to make a secondary PC out of all the reasonably-usable spare parts I had left.

The main problem with both that one and the Define S is that dust filters behind a solid, not-easily-removable front panel suck. On my main PC I want to clean the dust filters every 2-3 months, good luck with that when you have to pry off the front panel.


Considering the price I was kinda disappointed, there's some nice stuff but some big downsides like the HD cage being tiny and cramped. (this seems to be a problem with lots of cases now that everyone is trying to cram them beneath those stupid PSU shields. the 400Q comes with a PSU shield, for a non-windowed case. I threw it in the trash.)

Also IMHO corsair's drive sled system sucks, the sleds are cheesy plastic and have pathetic vibration dampening. However this is a place where I admittedly have extremely high standards, since my main PC for the last almost 10 years has been in a P182, the case with the best vibration-dampening ever devised.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Jago posted:

I just use my brush attachment on the vacuum cleaner to clean off my front case filter. I suppose it's possible I could damage the fan behind it, but so far so good.

As long as the PC is off it should be fine. You're spinning the fans backwards but it doesn't spin them super hard unless you leave the vacuum sucking for minutes.


But you can't vacuum when there's a solid front panel in the way, which is difficult to remove and held to the case by plastic clips which will eventually break because it stresses them every time you pull the thing off. The 400Q and the Define S both have this problem.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Obsurveyor posted:

I still haven't figured out how to take off the front of my 400Q, so I can see breaking clips being a thing with that one.

Just pull hard. Start from the top and try to have even force on both sides so it opens from top down rather than left-right.

IIRC the first time I got it off I had to put my knee on the top of the case to kinda brace it, but after that it goes easier.

Desuwa posted:

The Define S front panel is easy to remove though? Just pull it off. The connections aren't that strong, more than enough that the front panel is securely attached but not enough to be difficult to remove.

OK, I don't have one and have only seen a regular Define in person. But it looks in all the pics like the clips that hold it on are plastic, so even if they're not as stiff and difficult as the 400Q's, that is still liable to break after repeated stress.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

These probably won't be quite as undervoltable as the 1700 is, which can go down to 35w at a fixed clock of 3.0ghz on all eight cores.

Any particular reason for this? If you lock the multiplier back down to the same level I can't really see how it will be any different.

Everything about the 2x00 ryzen seems like a pretty minor respin, aside from better inter-core bus that doesn't need super-premium ram.



Eletriarnation posted:

I agree with this in general but there's kind of a glaring problem now in the fact that Core 2 has a hardware security vulnerability that Intel has said they are never going to fix. May be overly cautious, but I'm looking at my E8600-based HTPC and thinking it might be time to replace it with something newer.

For a HTPC? If you're using an OS that gets patches to fix the Meltdown exploit, that really should be sufficient for home user security. Meltdown is the one that can read your memory in real-time using javascript on a webpage.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Measly Twerp posted:

I think it's a reaction to how the last time he called someone out in a video people started sending threats to that person. He then went on twitter and basically told off his comment section. I sent him some words pointing out that his comment section isn't on twitter and that if he actually means it he should put it in the video.

Of course he didn't do it at the time, so who the gently caress knows.

it's cool that he wants to be a crusader for impartiality in the corrupt review industry (lol), but the way he handles everything makes him look dumb as gently caress.

if you want to be a trusted source of information, then leaping to conclusions and generally being a drama magnet are not great qualities. calling out your colleagues, the companies you depend on, and your audience is probably a bad move. (even if some of that audience are the type of dipshit that sends threats over a piece of computer hardware.)

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

the new hotness is liquid helium!

on the plus side, superfluidity means your flow rate is gonna be amazing

on the down side, the way that it leaks straight through atom-size gaps means you need some really high quality pipe fittings

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

Imagine that with some LEDs.

ironically it wouldn't look like much, superfluid liquid helium appears completely still because it flows perfectly

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Twerk from Home posted:

2700X looks like a compelling buy worth picking over the 8700K. The 2600/2600X don't look worthwhile over the i5-8400, unless I'm missing something.

overall system cost (particularly if you're going to stick with the amd wraith cooler which is 'acceptable' versus the same old crap intel stock cooler that's miserably overloaded by coffee lake watts)

edit: wait the 2600x has the wraith cooler that's not as good, scratch that. the one with the heatpipes is the 'acceptable' one. the spire is still better than what intel packs in with the 8400, but only in the way that horse poo poo is better than dog poo poo.


an upgrade path -- I'm good with my 1600X and wouldn't have bought a new 2xxx no matter how good they were. but now I'm even happier with my choice because the respin is better than I expected and zen2 will probably be even better. if AMD stays committed to their am4 compatibility promise I'll definitely get one of those in 2019 or 2020.

Klyith fucked around with this message at Apr 19, 2018 around 19:56

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Seamonster posted:

Even if they make NO latency/IMC improvements and NO architectural improvements to affect IPC when moving to 7nm which would be virtually impossible, just tacking on a straight 15% clock speed increase to get to 5.0Ghz @ the same wattage you're still looking at a monstrously strong all purpose chip. I don't think 7nm Ryzen will launch at $329 for the top 8/16 though.

"true" 7nm is still a ways off. pretty sure zen2 is gonna be on the hybrid process where they have 12nm for the transistors and 7mn for vias and other circuits that don't need the pellicle thing. i think that means improvement in chips per wafer but no big performance change.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Otakufag posted:

So has there been an explanation for why the AnandTech benchmarks gave like a +30% Ryzen 2 gaming advantage over Intel? Some say Intel's security patches lowered performance, others say it was something with RAM speeds running at the minimum supported for each platform. My uncle that works at AMD says they accidentally sent a ZEN 7nm sample.

I think the best explanation is the GamersNexus one: the time window for reviews provided by the manufacturer is way too short for a thorough & careful job. they had to slap an OS and their benchmarking suite on that poo poo and just plow through, no time to look at unexpected results or tweak things for the fairest conditions.



Spidi posted:

I'm about to get new PC but I'm debating if it's worth buying 2600X over 2600 for that little boost of performance or just save that 30 bucks and get myself better keyboard

This is a tough choice this time around. the 1600X was pretty meh because any 1600 non-X could easily OC to the same performance. with Ryzen 2 it looks like there's a lot more performance in the XFR2 special sauce and the X CPUs might be mildly binned for that. So the non-X may not be able to hit the same mark even OCed to the same 4 ghz.

If you hadn't already budgeted for a decent heatsink, definitely take the 2600 and throw in a Hyper 212 with the extra 30 bucks. Ryzen 2000 is definitely throwing more power dissipation around, and to manage it they're using the same types of temp vs power control they have on video cards. So good cooling literally equals more performance.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Cygni posted:

I guess the third answer is to just be honest, but you know...

FaustianQ posted:

Unless the standard is forced from an impartial authority, no one is going to take the first step and stick their hands into the blender of honest TDP ratings.

It is an honest spec, enthusiasts just misuse it. If TDP was meant to indicate maximum power draw, it would be called MPD.

Also the design in the name is because it is a spec based on expected real-world use, not benchmarks. As chips get more sophisticated abilities to both save power when it's not needed and use extra when it is, TDP diverges from from possible measured maximums and minimums. GPUs and now CPUs that can respond based on internal temperature sensing widen that potential gap even more -- since TDP is a spec for required thermal dissipation, a heatsink that can dissipate 200w is exceeding that spec.



Should they have a different spec for power consumption so people can add CPU max + GPU max + rest of system and buy a power supply based on those maximums? It wouldn't be a bad idea. But then they'd miss out on all the co-marketing deals.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Paul MaudDib posted:

Manufacturers may pretend that the phrase "TDP" doesn't have a meaning but it does, and unless they've managed to break the laws of thermodynamics then every bit of electricity that goes into the CPU comes out as heat, and every bit of heat that comes out of the CPU originally went in as power. They are one and the same, and on human-relevant timescales TDP = average power consumption. The fact that it may instantaneously be above or below the average is meaningless, that's why it's an average and not a hard cap.

Misunderstanding the spec to mean something it's not intended for does tend to make things into nonsense, yes.

95W TDP = "this processor expects to generate 95W of heat in operation, the heatsink and system cooling need to dissipate that"

Put a crappy heatsink specced for 95W @ 40C over ambient on a 95W TPD processor, I'll bet it generates something much closer to 95W than 140W.



e:

Craptacular! posted:

I wonder what GN did. He's been fairly enthusiastic about Ryzen in general and even slapped together a Threadripper machine to compress his videos as an example of something TR is good at.
AMD was doing dumb stuff with the threadripper embargo, he called it out as dumb. AMD is definitely trying to "manage" product launches in ways that are crappy but likely profitable, complete with hardware pre-orders before reviews come out. See also nvidia founder's edition and other ways to separate gullible nerds from their money.

Klyith fucked around with this message at Apr 20, 2018 around 21:56

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


repiv posted:

Sony loves doing weird poo poo with their hardware.

Fun fact: the HDMI output on the base PS4s GPU isn't connected to anything, instead they run the DisplayPort output to an external DisplayPort->HDMI encoder chip. For... reasons?

probably they support higher version / specific HDMI features that way. like how they added HDR to existing consoles via firmware update, while MS had to put out new boxes.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Palladium posted:

The only wildcard IMO is whether XFR2 is still maxed out on the lesser VRMs of the B-boards.

or more likely, whether they'll be happy doing so long-term. as buildzoid observes about MSI's kinda crappy power components, they absolutely can deliver 200w sustained -- they just put out a lot of waste heat doing so because MSI tends to use inefficient components. and then that heat puts stress on the vrms and caps around them and kills stuff early.

if pairing a B450 with a 2700X make sure you get a higher-quality one, not a cheapo.

(or just get a 370, I bet a lot of the ones in the chain at places like newegg that move stock will work OTB)


Paul MaudDib posted:

Effectively, reviewers are testing maxed-out 2700Xs against stock 8700Ks.

much as I'd like to disagree with PMD, if all you care about is video game performance and you're planning to spend 8700K money either way, the 8700K is at least as good at stock speed. then it has OC space above that. I doubt video games are going to care about 6 vs 8 cores soon enough for that to matter.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Alpha Mayo posted:

Has AMD made any statements about their eventual Zen2 (Ryzen 3rd-gen) being compatible with X470?

AMD has said their goal is that all AM4 processors will work in all AM4 sockets, and that AM4 will be in use until 2020 and Zen 3

(goals are not guarantees, but so far so good)

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Craptacular! posted:

I wouldn’t bet on Asus etc actually releasing BIOS updates for boards after two generations per platform, for the same “what have you done for me lately” reasons that Android manufacturers stop supporting OS releases at an early point. But I would bet $5 on X470 supporting Zen2

could be, but I figure the competition aspect will keep them more honest. if one guy doesn't and the other does, the people with boards that aren't getting updates will be mad.

phone makers get away with it because most people have zero idea what is in their phone

Palladium posted:

I'm curious how well a 2700X can undervolt at let's say 4GHz because 150W stock is too much for me but I'm sure I won't be able to find out when everyone is gonna YOLO their chips because OCing street creds

Ryzen 1 was pretty fantastic at maintaining performance while underclocked. I think it was the previous thread but there were some results of testing that. (That was one of the things that tilted me towards buying one.)


AMD's GPU drivers have some really nice power management abilities, including the ability to simply set lower targets for the power management system. Drag the slider to -25% power and tell the chip figure it out for itself. Would be cool if they could add that into Ryzen Master.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


consoles have a huge lead-time between nailing the specs and putting out the box, because they have to give devs time to make games for the launch. so they're definitely not using navi. and they're gonna be using AMD graphics because that's the only game in town -- the conditions that drove both consoles to use x86 & AMD have not materially changed. so the PS5 at least (which apparently is already in super-early dev kit land) will probably use ryzen & vega derived architecture.

consoles don't care that vega is a trash fire, they're not really competing against PCs.

however, here's some reasons vega might not be quite as bad a trash fire as you think:
1. it was priced for it's performance competition in the crypto market, not the video games market. AMD has sold big GPUs for minimal margin before, so Vega probably could have been priced cheaper. they didn't because crypto was distorting everything.
2. therefore the only people who bought them were crypto-miners (idiots) and AMD super-fans (also idiots), with the vast majority of purchases being crypto idiots. Vega doesn't even show up on steam hardware charts.
3. given that, zero work is being done to optimize games for vega. Vega really did have arch improvements for GCN, but I doubt they're really getting any attention.
4. GCN is old and creaky, but it's gotten a hell of a lot of lifespan extension already and a lot of targeted optimization based on the consoles. If the next consoles use Vega, that stuff that's being ignored might actually get used!

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


ufarn posted:

If I get a 2700X with 3200 DDR4, and X470 motherboard, how many of these will be reusable for Zen 2?

if you believe AMD promises, all of it. you will just need to update your bios and drop in a zen 2 chip.


sauer kraut posted:

I wouldn't dance on Intels grave yet until we actually see a finished 7nm high power GloFo product.

until I see a working 7nm production line somewhere on the planet, I'm not putting money on anyone.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


dont be mean to me posted:

If AMD actually manages to kick Intel's rear end up and down the entire stack, I wonder how Intel will try to slip out of the x86/amd64 cross-licensing agreement.

imma let you finish, but intel made $4.5 billion dollars profit this quarter



it's cool that AMD is back and all, and Intel getting hosed by 7nm is some deserved comeuppance. but AMD and Intel are, in the end, partners on the whole x86 thing. I want AMD to compete well and Intel to play fair. I'm not sure I want some huge upheaval where Intel is doing so badly that they try to burn down the whole building with the X86 license agreement. Because the most plausible reason I can see for that is the future where both of them are losing to ARM and tablets rule the world.

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


ItBreathes posted:

Thanks y'all. Follow up question: somehow, all of the builds I've ever done have had ASRock Pro4 motherboards, and I expect this to continue, any reason not to? Notably, Microcenter only has B350 in mATX.

the only reason would be better power for future zen processors: the 2xxx series is boosting itself well above it's normal TDP if it has enough heat dissipation & power delivery. next zen will probably be even more of that.

However I'm not sure there exists a mATX with actually good power. Probably you'd have to pay twice the money for one of the more high-end ones from gigabyte or asus. That asrock you're looking at is adequate even though the VRM is 3 phase that's badly faking a 6. It'll at least deliver power without overheating since it has a heatsink, unlike some of the other mATX boards.

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