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So, I've been pestering the Intel thread with super-basic questions because I'm probably going to get a new desktop this year. I'm anticipating that I'll pay my brother's friend to build it. I've been trying to follow the conversation in here as well, since the Intel thread has given me good guidance about AMD being totally competitive with Intel now, and I have a few questions: 1.) Zen is just shorthand for Ryzen, right? Everything currently out is Zen1, and what was announced for July 7 is Zen2? 2.) I've heard of overclocking before but for some reason I thought that that wasn't really done anymore because new processors were super fine-tuned at this point. I'm guessing that's not true. What's the typical performance boost for safely overclocking (i.e. not doing something that is going to harm your computer's longevity or reliability)? 100 MHz of clock speed? 500? None because it's always risky? I figure it varies based on the specific one but maybe there's a usual range. 3.) Is overclocking hard to do? Or are you just going into your computer settings and clicking the overclock box or something like that? 4.) There are so many performance variations to compare with processors... IPC, clock speed, core count, simultaneous multi-threading or not (and whether or not that's a feature or a bad thing in the first place) are all stuff I've come across. Is there a good resource out there that says "For this set of use cases, clock speed is the thing that matters most, and for this set of cases, you really want simultaneous multi-threading..." and breaks it down like that? 5.) Similarly, the biggest "which is better" debate seems to be between clock speed and core count. My understanding is that clock speed is what matters for anything single-threaded (anything using just one core) and core count matters for anything that uses, well, more than one core. Is there a good resource somewhere that says "here's a list of popular applications that only use one core, here's the ones that use more than one core; Chrome uses four cores, Photoshop uses two cores" or whatever? 6.) For programs that do use more than one core, is it additive? For example, let's say that a Chrome window typically splits its processor computing between two cores. If I open a second Chrome window, is that going to mean I'm utilizing four cores (if I have that many), or does the second window not matter and so it just increases the requirements on the original two cores? Similarly, let's say I have an eight-core processor and I have Chrome and Firefox both open. if Chrome typically uses two cores and Firefox typically uses two cores, will they both use the same two cores if I'm not asking anything intensive of either of them? Or would they each use two different cores because they're available? Thank you for any clarity you can provide! surf rock fucked around with this message at 13:47 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 13:39
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You all rock, thank you for sharing your knowledge! Khorne, is there any program you'd recommend for doing the CPU overclocking test of stability and temperature?
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May 27, 2019 14:39
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I agree with Khorne about being annoyed with motherboard shopping. Unless the post-release benchmarks turn out really badly, I'll be going with the 3900X for my CPU. I'm also looking at the X570 models, but it's really tough to compare them. My motherboard priorities are: - Compatibility - Enable overclocking - WiFi 6 and Bluetooth 5 - Allow very high RAM speed - Some futureproofing I also like the dual bios feature and having a better-than-1GB ethernet port. I've been looking at the Gigabyte Aorus Master since it seems to have all of that and more, but I feel like there's probably a $250 board that covers this ground as well that I haven't tracked down yet.
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Jun 16, 2019 21:08
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I'm planning on getting the 3900X, so that's 12 cores. The discussion I've seen around the X570 motherboards is that it doesn't make sense unless you're also going with the 12 or 16 core CPUs and planning to overclock, which I am. For anyone who's in a similar boat, have you found an X570 motherboard that you think is a good value performance-wise? edit: Also, what do people think of the be quiet! - Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler to go with the 3900X? surf rock fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jun 17, 2019 |
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Jun 17, 2019 21:48
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Paul MaudDib posted:Dark Rock 4 and Dark Rock Pro 4 are very different coolers. They're super close in price, so I would be happy to go with the latter, but the latter just visually seems huge to me? I won't have an open case so I don't care about the visual element of it, but I'm not sure how to figure out just on a literal level whether or not it would fit in my planned case (Nanoxia Deep Silence 3 ATX Mid Tower).
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Jun 17, 2019 22:40
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Llamadeus posted:If you're seriously planning on overclocking a 12-core, then you could even argue that neither is big enough and you might as well step up to a D15/D15S (or its successor) or beyond (>240mm liquid coolers). I don't plan to go crazy with the overclocking, and if it doesn't work well, I'll just leave it be and go with the default performance. But I do want to try to see if I can eke out a little extra, at least. Drakhoran posted:According to the spec sheet the Deep Silence 3 can handle coolers up to 165 mm tall. The Dark Rock PRO 4 claims to be only 162.8 mm. Ooh, close. I hadn't found that spec sheet, that's super helpful. Thank you! EDIT: sports posted:the aorus series looks nice I've been looking closer at the spec sheets for these, and I think the X570 Aorus Pro WiFi or the Ultra is going to be what I want. The latter is apparently going to be $300; I haven't found pricing for the former yet. surf rock fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 17, 2019 23:24
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One thing I'm trying to figure out after watching that Buildzoid video (I hadn't heard of him before but appreciate that he is a weird lunatic) is the importance of RAM distribution. I had assumed that a pair of 16GB RAM sticks would be preferable to four 8GB sticks of the same type/speed, but apparently it's the reverse. How significant is the difference? Apparently it's a $100 premium to go the four-stick approach. Also, is Ripjaws V a good choice for RAM? From poking around it seems to be mid-end (assuming that this page is organized in descending order of quality) but it's pretty hard to decipher, at least for me.
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Jun 18, 2019 20:10
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Goddamn, I am continually blown away by the amount of knowledge folks in SH/SC have. Thank you for those rundowns, everyone!
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Jun 18, 2019 21:38
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How important is CL? The RAM I was looking at was CL 19. I see options for CL 15 at the same speed/amount, but at double the price.
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Jun 23, 2019 21:07
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Arghhh, I want the testing of 3900X!
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Jun 26, 2019 04:39
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Just started watching the Buildzoid Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra video, which I've been waiting for because that's the motherboard I've been planning on getting for my upcoming 3900X build. He's super down on it compared to the X570 Pro Wifi (which I've also been considering). I haven't finished the video yet, but I'm surprised he hasn't made note of the 2 RAM slots on the Pro Wifi compared to the 4 on the Ultra. That seems like a big difference-makers for some users.
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Jun 28, 2019 02:04
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From reading and watching around, the takeaways so far seem to be: - X570 isn't showing noticeable performance improvements over older motherboard models, although it has some new features (PCIe 4.0, more USB 3.1, higher-frequency DRAM support) - DRAM memory latency is worse on-paper but that doesn't seem to have any impact in practice - You probably don't need to be as worried about goldilocks'ing out the RAM that's juuuuuuuust right - You basically can't overclock Zen2 beyond turning on PBO, as it stands. The advertised boost frequency speeds are actually, in effect, the overclocked limits and you might not even be able to reach them, let alone go beyond them. - Zen2 has lower power consumption but runs extremely hot (maybe to the point that the CPU coolers normally promoted in this forum aren't up to the challenge, judging from some comments here?) - All-core speeds max out at 4.3 even if the advertised single-thread boost speed is higher - Using Anandtech's Cinebench R15 comparison, the 3900X single-thread performance is about 5% worse even with PBO on vs. an i9-9900K running at stock - Using Anandtech's Cinebench R15 comparison, the PBO'd 3900X multi-thread performance is about 34$ better than stock i9-9900K - Using Anandtech's Geekbench 4 comparison, the stock 3900X single-thread performance is about 7% worse than the stock i9-9900K - Using Anandtech's Geekbench 4 comparison, the stock 3900X multi-thread performance is about 51% better than the stock i9-9900K - No CPUs in its price range can lay a finger on the 3900X for multi-threaded performance, it's leagues ahead - From a gaming perspective, the 3700X and the 3900X provide about the same performance - Intel i7-9700K and i9-9900K are still a slightly preferable choice for gaming specifically compared to AMD 3700X and 3900X, but the gap is minuscule at this point and would change if more heavily multi-threaded games started coming out with the release of the next console gen - Overall, the narrative doesn't seem to have changed. If you need pure single-threaded performance, go Intel. If you need multi-threaded performance, go AMD. If you need both, you'll get a better value from AMD. surf rock fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 15:42
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It's kind of weirding me out that apparently Zen 2 doesn't give the slightest gently caress what is around it in terms of motherboard, RAM, whatever, it performs within like 1% either way. I guess that's a good thing from a perspective of "there's no reason to buy high-end parts beyond the CPU" but that seems so strange.
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Jul 7, 2019 19:39
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Zotix posted:I haven't bought my mobo yet, just the 3900x. Is like to hear about what mobos people went with as well. This seems like the trickiest thing to me as an also soon-to-be 3900x buyer. The highest-end X570 boards seem absolutely pointless even for people who are ready to trade an extra couple of hundreds for a 1% boost in something, from what I can see. Up until now, I had been planning on getting an X570 Gigabyte Aorus Ultra for $300 because it hit all of my criteria (ATX form factor, Intel gigabit LAN, Wi-Fi 6 + Bluetooth 5, great enough VRM to handle 3900X, and 4 RAM slots). I suspect that I could get something cheaper, but so far I haven't been able to find another motherboard yet that hits all of these points but at a lower price. surf rock fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jul 8, 2019 |
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Jul 8, 2019 00:11
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Cygni posted:Steve gettin fiesty about the bios stuff goin round, some of the marketing choices, and everything: I love his content but it weirds me out how much he looks and sounds like Jason Segel's (slightly) nerdier younger brother. I can't be the only person who sees this
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Jul 9, 2019 04:27
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Oh poo poo, DDR4-3600 with CL14. I'm guessing the 8GB x 4 kit will cost... $400? edit: So, I know there's been discussion about Zen2 being generally memory-insensitive. I don't really understand how all of the interactions in a computer work. Does the CPU being memory-insensitive mean that all RAM-related operations are affected? I'm guessing so, given that it's the central processing unit, but I guess I'm wondering whether there are any exceptions to that where having super-amazing RAM will result in a noticeable performance boost regardless of the CPU. Or does only RAM quantity work that way, and RAM speed's meaningfulness is totally dependent on the CPU it's hooked up to? surf rock fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 18:22
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Burno posted:In my opinion the ASRock X570 Taichi is the best mid tier motherboard in the X570 lineup (in terms of features). It has everything the 330 to 400 dollar X570s have at 289.99 on Newegg. Oh, interesting! What makes you prefer it to the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro Wifi? I've been looking at that for $30 cheaper (or the ASUS ROG Strix X570-E for $30 more because of the 2.5GB port) instead. edit: I've also been looking at the MSI MPG X570 Gaming Pro Carbon WIFI for about the same price as the Gigabyte, but those seem indistinguishable to me. surf rock fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 20:09
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Burno posted:Mainly it has 3 x M.2 slots, you don't get that on other brands until you get into the 330-400 dollar range. Everything else is similar. Got it, thank you. The only use case for M.2 slots that I'm familiar with is SSDs; are there others?
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Jul 10, 2019 22:48
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Cojawfee posted:It's been going on for a few years. I hate buying hardware now because it's all RBG SUPER COOL GAMER poo poo. I miss the days when things just looked normal. It's nearly impossible find a normal looking case. I've been rocking my Lian-Li PC-K7 for about 9 years now and I love this case. I just wish I would have gotten one of the later Lian Li-s where the whole thing was black instead of the inside and back panel being grey on mine. I don't think Lian-Li makes anything like this anymore. Is it too much to ask for a solid black, all metal case with no side window these days? That's what drew me to this Nanoxia Deep Silence 3 case. I haven't seen anyone else mention or recommend it, but when I was looking up cases I wanted a window-less one and landed on this. I'm still finalizing my build so I can't vouch for it first-hand (and like I said, I haven't seen other goons mention it), but I think it fits your description.
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Jul 11, 2019 04:09
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I've been trying to figure out if this X570 motherboard is t topology or daisy chain for RAM. Does anyone here know?
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Jul 11, 2019 21:12
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I thought that the sweet spot for Zen2 Infinity Fabric was 3733 RAM, but it seems like folks are treating it like it's 3600. Am I misremembering, or is it just the case that there's a lot more RAM rated for 3600 than 3733 on the market and it's not like it's going to make a particularly big difference anyway?
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Jul 19, 2019 14:42
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I really hope AMD ramps up production of the 3900X or at least starts delivering some stock in August. I've had the Newegg auto-notify thing on for it and it's come back into stock once in the past week; I spotted the email about 20 minutes after I received it and the drat thing was already sold out again.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:58
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I can't believe it's been a month and a half and I still cannot find a 3900X anywhere. Today was the first time I even saw one for sale. It's on Newegg for $160 over MSRP. Goddammit. surf rock fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Aug 17, 2019 |
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Aug 17, 2019 14:36
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FINALLY see that 3900X is available for order again (albeit with a September 22 delivery date) on Amazon, go to pull the trigger and... it won't add to my cart or let me click buy it now. I'm sure that means that it's already out of stock again and for whatever reason the product page just hasn't updated to reflect that yet, but jesus christ I've been trying to buy this goddamn processor for six weeks now, come on
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Aug 24, 2019 17:12
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