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AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Misc posted:

Is there really much to the argument in the OP that gaming performance is expected to improve because the consoles are operating on 8 threads? That's a point I literally bought into with bulldozer, which was a poor gamble vs just buying whatever the Intel equivalent was and overclocking the hell out of it. There doesn't seem to be an incentive for developers to optimize for any more than a maximum of 8 threads when that's all the consoles have had for a hot minute and will continue to have until at least the next console gen.

Things have been moving in the direction of more threads being better for gaming for a long time now, these days it's hard to say that an i5 CPU is worth it over an i7 and I expect that five years down the line we will start seeing 6c/12t thread CPUs pull ahead of 4c/8t CPUs even with the 4c/8t one being faster in single threaded performance. But really, trying to predict things this far out with any accuracy is a fool's errand, trends tell us that more threads should be better down the line, that is about all that can be said on the matter.

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AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Rabid Snake posted:

Trip report. I was able to overclock my Corsair Vengeance LPX to 3200MHz by upping the voltage to 1.35 and loosening the timings to C16. The gigabyte AB350M Gaming 3 has been a pleasure to work with so far.

It's handled my 1700 at 3.7 on stock voltage just fine. I only wish this MicroATX board came with built in WiFi.

This thing runs surprisingly cool, even with the stock cooler. Never seeing anything above 70 degrees, even with prime 95

Did you run benchmarks at both lower and higher speeds on the memory? Sometimes the Ryzen memory controller sets certain subtimings which are inaccessible to the end user to extremely slack settings when raising memory clock speeds, this can result in lower performance in spite of the higher clock rate.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

Nipples could be a really great HEDT machine. Very interested in seeing it benched.

I like nipples well enough but I question their processing power, also I prefer dual core nipples for some reason, any more than that just seems weird to me.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


redeyes posted:

Hilarious. Buttcoin edition. I guess they don't know that GPU mining is dead. Also the IoT router looks interesting.

Every 480/580 AMD card is currently sold out due to a spike in Etherium prices. So yeah, they will probably sell a bunch of those to miners.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


SwissArmyDruid posted:

Alright, I parted out a pair of identical machines for the two munchkins. Anyone mind casting an eye over and making sure I've not hosed anything up? https://pcpartpicker.com/list/G3bVQV

(holy poo poo, I spoil these two way too goddamn much.)

Those look fine to me, though I'd probably let them pick out cases from a list so they can get something that looks the way they want.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


havenwaters posted:

Don't you want your ram clocked up as fast as it can go for Ryzen chips? That's the only concern I see but I haven't kept up on things.

While this is true the money spent on faster RAM would likely be better spent elsewhere considering how high RAM prices are. 16GB of RAM would be a good idea, but that would also be pretty expensive. A 16GB version of that system would cost $700, a 16GB system with DDR4-3200 would cost $740 so across two systems you are looking at either $60 more total for slower RAM or $140 more total for the fast RAM.

However I would spring for the 16GB of slower RAM, mostly because I just noticed that the mobo only has 2x RAM slots.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


FaustianQ posted:

Is Userbenchmark reliable? Because if there is no way to tell what the actual OC settings are for Peak, and if we assume fastest speeds listed then the 1700X @ 4.1Ghz absolutely trounces the 2600K @ 4.3Ghz.

The difference between average clocks is actually 7% in favor of the 1700X.

That isn't really a good comparison, 4.1GHz is really high for a 1700X and 4.3GHz is really low for a 2600k. 3.9 vs 4.3 or 4.1 vs 4.8 would be fairer comparisons.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


repiv posted:

AdoredTV still chasing those /r/amd clicks I see. Threadripper does look promising but declaring victory before we know SKUs, prices, performance or even a hard release date is a bit premature.

Well, the rumored specs of 16C/32T at the full 4GHz for $849 certainly make me think they have won. I'm wondering if the large size of the heatspreader combined with the spread out topography of the chip due to how it's manufactured from smaller sub-dies allows the chip to run at the full 4GHz speed sustained with sufficient cooling, probably something water based.

I'll agree that the AdoredTV guy does come off as a pretty big fanboy.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


repiv posted:

That's a good point. I'm wondering what the spead out design means for cooling though, having to buy a special heatsink with an XXL contact surface would be annoying (and more expensive due to low volume).

Well, yeah, it's clearly going to require coolers with very large footprints due to the sheer size of the package, I thought that would be obvious to everyone so I didn't bother to mention it. poo poo, I think it's big enough that coolers on the market right now would have to mount through the package because the screws are not spaced far enough apart for it to fit between them.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


You can pick corner cases to prove almost anything. In reality there is enough stuff that you might want to do with a computer that having at least four cores is well worth it for the vast majority of desktop computer users.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Risky Bisquick posted:

The people that browse the web on 6100s for light duty are better served using phones or tablets they likely already own. System integrators that sell 6100 systems frequently pair it with 4gb and a spindle drive. 2c4t for light office work fine that is a use case but you'd also need a ssd and at at the very least 8gb of ram. i3s certainly have a place given their value but let's not kid ourselves that it dumpsters a 1700.

Ehhh, not really, with the Pentiums having 2c/4t now it's far better to just go with a G4560 for far less money.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Harik posted:

I wouldn't actually mind a show PC if I didn't have to pay extra, get ~~~gamerz~~~ branding, or tradeoff sound dampening for thin acrylic windows. I spend time on cable management already, wouldn't mind showing it off.

Maybe this fall, if TR is good and I can find something that looks nice next to a define R5. I wouldn't mind a tempered glass side panel, but normal windows are awful.

According to engineers at Fractal Design the acrylic windows in cases have almost the same sound dampening properties as sound dampening foams on metal panels do.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Palladium posted:

Does AM4 run 2x16GB DDR4-3200 reliably now?

That's too vague to answer, if your asking if you can grab any random combo of mobo and DDR4-3200 RAM and have everything work fine then no, you still need to make sure your mobo and RAM will work together at the listed speeds, also probably do some BIOS updates.

If you do your homework you should be able to get a combo like that working but people still run into problems occasionally.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Otakufag posted:

If you own a 144hz monitor with a modern gpu, but it is being terribly bottlenecked in the rear end by a lovely second gen i5 and wanna upgrade, would it be smarter to just get a 7700K or a Ryzen 1600/1700 and then upgrade to a zen 2 in like 2 years? Assuming of course that you won't need to change socket.

The 7700k will get you more frames, the Ryzen will scale much better for stuff that uses many threads and/or multitasking. Pick your poison.

Personally I'd go with an R7 1700 because I think it will be more futureproof, but that's just me, trying to predict what will be better 5 years down the road is about as reliable as reading tea leaves.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


FaustianQ posted:

If you want a modern hexacore from Intel, please, please wait until Coffee Lake, because apparently this poo poo is back from the Lynnfield days.

https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed...225519141093376

Until I see more reports of that I'll withhold judgment.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Cygni posted:

There isn't any iGP on the Zeppelin die and R3 is just that same die again. We wont see Zen with iGP until Raven Ridge, which seeing as how Bulldozer based Bristol Ridge just now showed up today, might be further away than we thought.

Threadripper having 4 dies is so fuckin' weird... the chip he was delidding was clearly an engineering sample and non retail, so maybe the retail units will have 2 dies removed in the diagonal config?

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/stat...593099952664576

der8auer said in the video that AMD has confirmed to him that retail TR will have four dies.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Cygni posted:

i dont remember him saying that in the video? he said that AMD confirmed that 2 dies were disabled in his version, but he didnt say anything about retail that i remember. if Ian at AT thinks 2 dies is still a possibility, thats probably a better source than a youtuber honestly. either way, the whole thing is weird.

der8auer is not just "some youtuber", lol.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Twerk from Home posted:

Street price on the R5 1400 is $135 right now, is hyper-threading worth $5?

Yeah, definitely.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1j3S6MKB_E#t=104s

That almost seems like a reasonable amount!

who's going to even have torx screwdrivers handy for this?

I have a full set of torx from T3 to T20. Now if those were security torx it would be pretty hilarious.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Malloc Voidstar posted:


what the gently caress is that bottom right fan doing? the case is solid
i guess it's drawing air from the vent above but... why not make the case vented

It's pretty obviously ducted in from the bottom part of the front intake.

EDIT: Damnit, beaten by your edit.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Volguus posted:

That's an interesting packaging. Looks safer from an installation perspective than what i had to do with intel cpus.

Yeah, I like it. I always got nervous putting in Intel CPUs, afraid that I would drop the CPU and bend the pins in the socket.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


ShinAli posted:

Been waiting for Threadripper to upgrade my machine so I'm queuing up all the parts I'm going to buy, but I need a sanity check on memory because I don't know what the gently caress.

I'm looking at the motherboards and they're all saying they support up to DDR4-3600; can I just get any brand of DDR4-3600? Do I need to get 4 sticks in order to get it to clock at 3600? I heard some brands of memory were getting issues to clock right with Ryzen.

Check the mobo's QVL, that is the only way to know. And no, you don't need 4 sticks, technically you could use one, but I would go with at least two for dual channel memory, or four if you can for quad channel.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


ufarn posted:

It is pretty weird that so few bother to do more extensive testing with different components. Like AMD or not, there are clearly some different results depending on game, graphics card, and even RAM.

That would delay the reviews greatly. People tend to underestimate how long it takes to just do the benchmarks for a review but it can take a week or more of nothing but running benchmarks to get a reasonably accurate picture of how each tested configuration performs, especially with some of the benchmarks having dumb quirks like results getting worse with each consecutive run without a reboot and other fun stuff that adds a lot of extra time to the testing.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Ha, I'll show you a real good chart!

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Eyochigan posted:

Flux is a compound used to cover a surface to prevent oxidation during welding/soldering etc. The die(s) itself should be soldered to the IHS, and the reason stated for including the other two dies is to distribute the weight on the IHS. So in theory, it should sit flat.

I think they mean flux as in variation, in this case variation of temperature.

EDIT:

AVeryLargeRadish fucked around with this message at Aug 8, 2017 around 21:54

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Paul MaudDib posted:

That's not the half of it (literally). Here's what the total system power draw looks like:



(from Overclock3d)

And that's even throwing GPU into the mix to hide Threadripper's consumption a bit.

I just did some quick math and that would put a fully OCed dual Vega/TR system at 1400-1600W power draw. Like I said, that was quick math so take it with a very large grain of salt but holy hell that is a lot of power.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Wirth1000 posted:

Who the hell even sells that kind of power supply to handle that? Aren't most manufacturers topping out at 1500W in their lineups?

There are things like the EVGA Supernova P2 1600W and a few 2kW PSUs, but if one were to build a system like that it would probably be better to use two PSUs.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Paul MaudDib posted:

I guess the good news is that if a whole bunch of that power consumption is tied up in the platform then multi-socket shouldn't be bad at all, just another 200-300W over that.

Well, if you leave things at stock you would be seeing around 200W extra draw for another CPU, but if you OC you will be seeing more like 400W-500W extra per CPU. But I expect that almost no one interested in a multi-socket system would OC and that most interested in multi socket will go for some flavor of EPYC CPU or multi socket EPYC.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Scarecow posted:

Yeah im really torn now as if the 1900x or what ever they call it is just like a 1800x but with more pcie lanes etc i would buy that

But if its a 4c/4c split over the interdie then rip so much for a threadripper build that would set me up to transition to zen2 later on

It is 4c/4c split, AMD have said this, just like how the 1920x is 6c/6c instead of 8c/4c.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


I would assume those prices are just early gouges, we will have to wait to see what prices look like when there is wider availability. Also, we do have a GPU thread for this stuff.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


NewFatMike posted:

Did we confirm that it's going weird CU shutoffs with that, so clocks aren't necessarily representative of total performance?

I still very badly want Raven Ridge to be good, but I'm not sure it'll be "console replacement" material in mobile form factors, even with a Freesync 2 panel. Hopefully it will be, but Vega keeps making me sad.

Performance was in line with the clocks, the card just needs to be undervolted and the power limit raised, this causes the card to run faster while not running into its 300W power limit. I just wish there wasn't such airtight protection on the BIOS, playing with them might see some nice performance gains.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Devian666 posted:

I'm pretty impressed with the Ryzen performance for business purposes. I think it's the first time in years I've been enthusiastic about a cpu. Seems like an afforable way to get a lot of cpus with better floating point performance than intel.

That makes a lot of sense, Ryzen is the first compelling new thing we have seen in desktop CPUs since Sandy Bridge or so. Hopefully this lights a fire under Intel and we see some real innovation from both sides over the next few years.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



loving morons.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Scarecow posted:

no its that SMT for AMD is flat out not being used atm see in the article
http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-ben...esting-research
"For one instance, Destiny 2 doesn’t utilize SMT with Ryzen, producing utilization charts like this:"


But can we really trust this? r/AMD says No!:

The Hottest of Takes posted:

Gamers Nexus is not reliable is anti AMD bullshit, all manipulated. Everything that favors AMD is not reviewed, benchmarked nor shown by gamers nexus. Conclusions are even worst. Stop using that guys things as a "revealed truth" nor information because it is all OPINIONS of one guy who clearly hates AMD or works for competitors. And it's clear that something about that is really going on with the videos he didn't show, then showed and then explained like the "glue interview" one that "was lost". I saw polaris benchmarks with OLD DRIVERS in that site.

STOP.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


A SWEATY FATBEARD posted:

It wasn't just Youtube, attempting to view any HD video while system was busy number crunching in the background lead to stuttering. I blame dire cache mispredictions causing the system to pull data out of system RAM instead from L2 cache.

Also, I RMA-d the misbehaving DDR4 memory sticks and the guys at the service center told me that apparently the whole series of these memories are duds - they already had three RMAs of these sticks the past week alone and they agreed to replace them, no questions asked. So it looks like it isn't the processor's fault, G.Skill RAM just aint up to the task it would seem. We'll see how new sticks will perform - and if they too refuse to work as advertised, the guys told me that they'll give me my money back.

That RAM has worked for tons of other people, it sounds like they got a bad batch, also the actual memory is made by Samsung, not G.Skill.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


AzraelNewtype posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6XYaFqq2mg

In case you don't want to watch, the takeaway is that a GTX 660 gives Premiere's encoder exactly as much of a boost as a Vega 64. Unless x264's OpenCL branch is offloading significantly more to the GPU (and I very much doubt it does), you're super correct. I'm curious how weak/old a GPU would have to be to give worse results than the current generation if four years old is indistinguishable still, but that's sort of a moot point.

This is one of those rare videos where you should actually read the comments, the bottle neck they saw had nothing to do with the hardware and everything to do with the software.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


A SWEATY FATBEARD posted:

Ryzen update: I am now extremely happy with the system. New RAM runs great at 3200MHz (even though the sticks are rated for 3600... wtf) and with improved cooling in the case, the 1700X processor has been running number crunching 24/7 at 3700MHz without a single crapout. In fact the CPU is perfectly capable of higher clockspeeds but I just wanted to give it some headroom for when the cooling efficiency drops due to dust accumulation on the heatsink.

I have only one complaint about the Asus prime x370-pro board; it doesn't have enough USB sockets on the backplate - and the backplate itself looks strangely empty and devoid of expansion ports, that's the first thing that struck me when I saw the board in flesh.

Another thing. FX processors could run extremely hot without running into problems - my old FX-8350 was constantly mucking around 85C - while Ryzen cries murder if its temperature goes over 65C.

I believe the 1700X and 1800X have a temperature offset of 20C, so your 65C CPU is actually running at 85C. As far as the memory speeds go, at above 3200MHz you can start running into issues with the memory controller, so you might just have a CPU with a memory controller that is unstable past 3200MHz, the motherboard can also be a factor but that tends to come into play at higher speeds than 3200MHz, like 3600-4000MHz+. This is due to trace length between the DIMM slots and the CPU socket and is why you see some extreme memory OCing boards opt for only two DIMM slots and place them very close to the socket.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


SoftNum posted:

I just wonder how many 8700Ks are going to end up dead when the retail binnings can't hit 5.0 like the samples given out.

Unless Intel binned the entire initial allotment of retail chips they should be hitting 5GHz pretty easily with sufficient cooling like a 240mm AIO. I'm also seeing a lot of reports of chips hitting 5.1 and 5.2.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Fauxtool posted:

Related question, does the same thing apply to Intel? I already have 16 gb of pretty nice 3200 in my Intel system. If it's not as important there I can move it to my new ryzen build and then buy cheaper lower speed ram to replace it.

There are gains for going up to 3200 on Intel too, but they are much smaller, like ~10% or so in games that do a lot of stream loading, the gains are much larger on Ryzen and they affect a much broader number of applications. Ryzen is more sensitive as far as RAM compatibility goes so before you buy RAM for either system you'll want to test the faster RAM in the Ryzen system and make sure it will actually run at its rated speed there.

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AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


BurritoJustice posted:

AMD said blank silicon, but I believe someone tore one apart and found them to be complete but non-operable Zeppelin dies.

Yeah, IIRC that was Der8auer.

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