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orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

There is some evidence that recent games are scaling better with more threads, according to a few tests I've read on German websites. It's possible they simply get better at running multithreaded in general, no idea how much is related to consoles.

No (good) mini-ITX Ryzen boards for another few months is a huge bummer, tho

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orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

This X300 doesn't seem very interesting (PCI-E lanes, USB support, SATA ports - I know Ryzen brings a few of its own but still) and having it delay ITX boards makes it worse

I remember having great fun with awful VIA chipsets because those were the only chipsets I could get for some early AthlonXP builds

orcane fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Apr 16, 2017

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Also remember nForce?

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Also this one says Intel Gigabit Ethernet on the X370 picture.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Wirth1000 posted:

My 850 EVO died in 2 years never buying Samsung again. Sticking with Kingston or Corsair.

Baby, bathwater etc.? Or am I falling for ?

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

chocolateTHUNDER posted:

I'm a little confused for some reason; I'm planning on building a Ryzen computer within the next week and just wanna make sure a Ryzen revision isn't due within the next month or two?

Good news, friend: The Ryzen revision is coming NEXT MONTH.

E: damnit... okay, I have a link at least! https://www.forbes.com/sites/antony...pc-enthusiasts/

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

They're vulnerabilities and they need fixing but what is really funny are the idiots who act like this is almost on par with Meltdown/Spectre.

"See, AMD has their huge crippling security issues too, nothing is secure, might as well keep your Intel things!" -a dumbass who keeps blowing everything out of proportion every time it gives him an opportunity to poo poo on AMD.

And, oh yeah. STATE LEVEL ACTORS.

orcane fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Mar 22, 2018

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

PerrineClostermann posted:

... Did we conveniently forget that Chimera isn't even an AMD exploit? It's an ASMedia exploit, and is on Intel motherboards from the past 6 years.

Umm excuse me the website said "AMD VULNERABILITIES CATCHY NAMES, status: really loving bad*" so of course it's an AMD exploit.


* please sell all your stocks

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

pixaal posted:

They can't just move that stuff back to older tech? Well print more of the older stuff. I'd think Intel would want to prioritize CPUs. Did Intel destroy their older fabs or something?

AMD is really lucking out that Intel is falling on their face just as AMD has a viable product.

This is why 14nm chipsets took a while and the Z370 chipset wasn't replaced by Z390 faster. Instead, mainboard manufacturers are making refresh Z370 boards like this: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/T...PLUS-GAMING-II/

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Yeah you probably don't want to tell Apple "hey those LTE modems we finally won the exclusive contract for, we can't make them in 14nm after all". Not even if you're Intel.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

exquisite tea posted:

I was watching some dude's video about installing a Ryzen 1600 and he recommended downloading the chipset drivers from AMD's own website to get the Ryzen-specific "balanced" power setting for Win10. He even said that it gave a performance advantage over simply setting the CPU to work in performance mode. Is that the conventional wisdom, and does that still hold true for the 2700/x series?

Ryzen CPUs had lower performance on Windows 10 originally because the default power plans were parking cores (and saving power) too much, so changing the power plan (or installing the AMD-modified balanced one) fixed this.

However, Microsoft eventually changed this in a Windows 10 (feature?) update so it shouldn't be necessary just for the power plan/core parking issue anymore.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

exquisite tea posted:

Thanks for the advice everyone! I did a dumb thing and bought a Ryzen 2700x / 2080 for maximum and I'm glad to see that AMD is competitive again. The very first system I ever put together was on a good old Athlon back in 2002 when dual core still was a novel concept, and the trepidation + fear of royally loving something up on a new installation has been with me ever since.

Why this is a great thing, not dumb

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

The 2700X has an offset of 10C applied to temperature reporting by default, so depending on what software you're using (some are aware of the offset and may display the corrected actual temperature), it could be 60-65C instead.

The AMD website says "Max Temps: 85C" so even 70-75 is completely safe and the CPU should be able to run that 24/7. The Wraith Prism is good to run maximum "boost" clocks but it's going to be slightly hotter/louder than a bigger third party cooler would.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Technically it would be. But apparently the B450 boards aren't built (although I'm sure that's being way overblown again) as well as the good X470 ones. Since they also don't save you much or any money, I'd go with the X470.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Hopper posted:

Thanks, I'll make sure to check reviews some more if there are indeed better and worse boards. However, the difference between B450 and the X boards is roughly 30-50 bucks, which is a bit much considering I can get the Asrock B450 Pro for around 85 € for example.
This video which might help (TLDR in description):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMJoLyrWa7E

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

HalloKitty posted:

I just wonder why it installs by default with the chipset drivers then. It holds much higher idle speeds than the built in balanced profile, and I'm going to guess AMD probably has left it like that for a reason.
Because Windows 10 had issues with core parking when Ryzen was new, the default balanced profile parked them too aggressively which cost Ryzen performance in certain programs. AMD supplied the profile with chipset drivers, one that has less of an effect on performance, but obviously uses slightly more power. Windows 10 later got an optimized power plan that doesn't have quite as much of a performance impact either, but seems to save more power.

There's an ancient blog on this:
https://community.amd.com/community...munity-update-3

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

incoherent posted:

How the gently caress did it get so bad from origins? literally the same game 1 year apart, CYOA voices, and boat tech.

It's my understanding that Origins does the same thing, but who knows.

I'm only running it off a HDD in 1200p though, and so far it didn't make me want to upgrade my 4790k

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Does Ryzen Master not have options to launch on startup and apply profiles automatically? The Gigabyte B450I Aorus Pro Wifi I bought for some SFF PC has the worst BIOS I've ever seen and won't even let me change 99% of the CPU's settings (I can mess with RAM timings and that's basically it) and I can work around that with Ryzen Master. Or could, if I didn't have to manually launch the program and apply profiles every single time

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Craptacular! posted:

Having seen reviews of that motherboard being OCed, I think the problem with the BIOS might be the user. You either need to read better, or you dont have the board you think you do. It should be a good OCer, though with a Gigabyte board you want to be conservative with voltage because voltage equipment reveals it delivers more power than the software reports, not less like other manufacturers.
Nice.

I saw the reviews too, which is why I bought it, but no, it's the right board and all the fields I'd expect to edit for overclocking (rather: underclocking) refuse to be changed (some are straight greyed-out but apparently they do lock a handful of OC options on B450 boards).

Since Ryzen Master is no real help (I mean, it helps and has great settings but I'm not manually picking and applying a profile every time I launch the computer) I'll just go through all the options again because it's probably hidden behind one option in some sub menu.

E: This person on Reddit apparently had the same problem, I have no idea if they ever fixed it though

orcane fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Apr 11, 2019

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Turns out some options can only be changed with the +/- keys, which I didn't even try yesterday since it only applies to very few options and I was navigating the UEFI with my mouse. Most stuff (and everything in AsRock and Asus UEFIs I used for the past ~decade) can be clicked on or toggled through with enter, but most (but not all) of the Gigabyte's OC settings don't do anything if you do either of those. Navigating all voltage increments etc. like that is a pain but at least it works

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

The problem isn't AMD making the right parts, it's the OEMs putting the AMD parts into devices worth buying. Instead, they've mostly been using the lowest cost parts, cut down everything and give you single channel RAM. So, "AMD doesn't sell "

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Lambert posted:

I don't think the air force installed firmware updates on their PS3s, so they would have been able to continue using the feature.

But not replace any PS3 if it broke down because new ones shipped with the firmware pre-installed, I guess.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Palladium posted:

Before CPUs were market segmented by cores, the #1 bad pick was buying flagship or near flagship clocked CPUs, #2 was overly expensive blinged out mobos, and #3 was buying blinged out GPUs that were priced similarly to a basic higher tiered GPU.
I think that's too general. It's a bad pick if you're spending the same or more money on something that is worse than the alternatives in every way (ie. buying AMD construction core CPUs in 2019) or if you buy the more expensive things for features you never plan to use (paying more for the identical mainboard but with SLI support, for never running more than 1 GPU).

It's not a bad pick to pay disproportionally more for minimal gains if you actually want or need those gains (buying the Pentium II 300 instead of 233 for a few % of performance, buying the gamer mainboard with the dumb bling because it has better on board sound or more SATA ports, buying the higher tier/slower GPU for its game bundle or the great cooler that stays cool and quiet vs. the base model/faster GPU that renders more pixels/second while sounding like a jet engine).

Obviously specific products exist(ed) that never dropped out of the top category (super expensive gamer grade video cards that were just as fast/loud/hot as the base models, gamer mainboards that used the same components as cheaper ones, except for the badly designed heatsink that doesn't do anything). So it's specific products rather than entire categories being bad picks.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Last time I checked those tiny fans don't really move a lot of air (especially at low RPM, where you'd want them so they're quiet) so fitting a Noctua will run quieter, but if it has to spin up to 3000 or even 5000 rpm to actually do anything they're still going to be audible.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

I imagine you're fun to play football against, what with all the goal post moving.

You're, once again, coming into a SHSC thread trying to dump sick burns on AMD (because you spent too much time on r/AMD again or what do I know, but it's apparently pathological) and can't handle that you're being called out for claiming Nvidia is honest about what you buy, which has not been true for a while. So now you're trying whataboutism by saying their misleading labeling of products is not as bad as AMD's

E: Also, BIOS-unlocking etc. is not "lootboxing", you are ridiculous. Would you feel better if they had put hard locks on those products?

orcane fucked around with this message at 11:15 on May 17, 2019

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Cygni posted:

Looks like the active fan on the chipset is def going to be A Thing for x570:

https://videocardz.com/80714/msi-mp...bon-gaming-plus

Rumours say this is mandated by AMD but it still seems hella stupid.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Combat Pretzel posted:

Would be uncool to pull that halo product without sufficient warning ahead. There will probably be another Threadripper. It probably got folded under the generic Ryzen umbrella in the presentation to not take up unnecessary space in the presentation. I mean, the proper name is Ryzen Threadripper, not just Threadripper.

If they really launch 16 core consumer parts with Ryzen 3000 there's not a whole lot of room left for Threadripper that couldn't be covered with the highest tier of Ryzen or a lower tier Epyc.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Its there any advantage outside of PCI4 over using a 4XX one?I dont want to deal with the heat/extra wattage and price if there isn't more tangible benefits

xgalaxy posted:

What are you missing out on if you pair the 3900x w/ an x470 board?
Seems like x570’s are going to be too rich for my blood.

Shame they keep the processor costs down but inflate the mobo prices.
I guess (some) X470 boards might lack the VRM setup to reach high boost/OC clocks with the 3900X but it's too early to tell. Also you'd lose the full PCIe 4.0 support and possibly some granular OC options (although those were not tied to the chipset for Zen+, I'm just speculating) but yeah, if you're just doing a "normal" consumer setup you're probably not going to notice - X470 might be a viable budget option as long as they're being sold.

Some websites tested B350/X370 vs. B450/X470 performance when the 2000 series CPUs was released, I assume there will be performance comparisons with the new CPUs as soon as they're out.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Plenty of goons couldn't wait to dump a few hundred on the BESTEST Z390 boards when the 9900k launched in the Intel and PC part picking threads

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

NewFatMike posted:

Ryzen Master does it and loads on startup, so

Does it actually load profiles on startup now?

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Zotix posted:

And how are gigabyte bios? mine should be in thursday.
Not as intuitive as Asrock or Asus in my experience with recent boards. I have a B450 I Aorus Pro WiFi and the UI is a mess of things you can click or you expand/toggle with <enter> and options you can only change by entering numbers directly or using keys to alter the values (+/- or pgup/pgdn, I can't remember).

It does have all the feature I want (offsets, PBO etc.), it's just harder than necessary to find them.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Arzachel posted:

OEMs aren't going to put lpddr4x into mainstream laptops

They still put LPDDR3 into new notebooks with gen 8/9 Intel CPUs so yeah.

It's nice on paper but it's not going to be in many (actually portable) notebooks, which is where a good iGPU or APU makes the most sense (in everything bigger you can just stick an actual mobile GPU and that will be miles ahead).

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Plenty of B450 mainboards have VRMs that are perfectly up to the task of powering the Ryzen 2000 and 3000 CPUs up to 8 cores, are we comparing Buildzoid "not worth it unless it has 20 phases and can manually OC a 16 core CPU to 5 GHz" videos again?

orcane fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Aug 25, 2019

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

It was added to address performance issues in Windows 10, due to aggressively parking cores of first generation Ryzen CPUs, which Microsoft eventually fixed. Ryzen Balanced is still supposed to handle the cores more "optimally" or whatever you want to call it (which is why they still install it with the chipset driver). People always see the 90% number in their power plan and freak out about monitoring software telling them how hot/fast their CPU runs while idle, but Ryzen Balanced is actually supposed to be using the cores' lowest power states, it's just that polling the cores tends to wake them up from sleep constantly.

Still, unless you have a specific use case that profits from the last 1% or w/e performance, you can use Windows' power plan instead of AMD's.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

The default setting is intended to be "CPU manages putting cores to sleep when nothing is happening via fine-grained voltage control", it's absolutely supposed to save power while idling, this just doesn't seem to work in all configurations (the Windows method always works because it's more blunt in how it tries to safe power).

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

The 3950X TDP isn't that much higher than that of the 2700X the 400-series mainboards were made for, so unless you're super serious about overclocking for the last 2% of performance for another 20% of power/heat (numbers made up but OC is even less useful now than on the previous Ryzens) I don't see why people keep assuming B450/X470 are going to explode running the new 16-core part.

People always quote Buildzoid or whatever and get hysterical about VRMs but if you're just running your CPU at stock settings (ie. without PBO or other auto-OC options) even midrange boards are usually fine.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

ItBreathes posted:

It bears repeating, but it's only old stock motherboards that dont work with Zen2 out of the box. I don't know what etailers shelves look like, especially with regards to ITX boards, but it's not like they're 100% guaranteed to not work.

You can also pick up a 2200g or somesuch at the same time and just return it.
Yeah I just built an ITX system with a friend and he went for the Asus Strix B450-I Gaming with a 3700X and we were prepared to order a 2200G or the AMD kit, but it worked out of the box, the BIOS was a version from June, a few releases after initial Ryzen 3000 support. Even turning on Not-XMP for the DDR4-3600 just worked.

It's too bad the stock cooler doesn't fit into the Dan A4 because the RGB were funny when we set everything up on a table to test if the BIOS worked.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

OC headroom is shrinking everywhere because leaving even 5% performance on the table makes no sense if you can bin your chips and sell the faster ones as a more expensive SKU instead, good luck

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Spiderdrake posted:

So I picked up my 3600 for my black friday build (Canada is weird) and I'm getting a 5700 XT unless there's a very aggressive 2070S deal. To that, can you stack the xbox game pass? Amazon.ca doesn't provide the code, iirc, but if I can't stack it why even bother?

Also: Is there any brand to avoid among Sapphire, PowerColor and MSI? I'm waiting on whichever the Gaming X, Red Devil or Nitro+ is cheapest next week.
With the RX 5700/5700 XT you usually don't want to use OC (factory OC included) because the additional performance is negligible while the higher power consumption = heat = fan noise is not. So out of the three tiers (reference/blower, basic custom cooler, high-end OC model) a basic custom model is enough for performance, but the top tier models come with much bigger coolers that help if you care about noise/heat:

  • Avoid all the blower design, no matter the manufacturer and how cheap you can get them (unless you want to water-cool the card yourself I guess).
  • The Powercolor Red Devil and Sapphire Nitro+ are the best "OC" variants, according to most reviewers the Nitro+ is a tiny bit better than the Red Devil, but not by an amount that really matters. The MSI Gaming X is also good but not as good and doesn't have a BIOS switch for a "silent" mode (ie. closer to reference TDP) like the Sapphire/Powercolor cards. The Asus Strix OC has a decent cooler (but the worst of the four listed here) but uses unbalanced BIOS options ("silent" with reasonable power consumption runs quite hot, but the "performance" BIOS is loud and, well, yeah Navi overclocking) and it's usually far more expensive
  • For basic custom models, the Gigabyte Gaming OC has a decent cooler (not silent, but not as loud as the reference blowers), but doesn't offer a silent BIOS either. The Sapphire Pulse and Powercolor Red Dragon do similarly, but can run quieter again with a silent BIOS option. The latter two also come with 2-slot coolers so they're the best options for compact cases.

The other cheap customs (eg. Asus TUF, MSI Evoke and Mech, the XFX cards) still try to waste another 20+ W chasing measurable but unnoticeable performance gains with cut-down coolers, so they just get hotter or louder for no good reason. Personally I'd get either basic or high-end Sapphire or Powercolor cards, because all the other cards don't do really anything better, and still cost as much or more.

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orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Yeah I had plenty of attempts at (Intel) CPU OC and recent RAM OC with a Zen+ CPU that looked fine in Memtest and Prime95 but would reliably become crash happy in recent demanding games.

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