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MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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ConanTheLibrarian posted:

TSMC are releasing 5nm Q1 next year so things are a little better than that.

Yeah TSMC is charging ahead full speed, it can't last forever but they're progressing to new nodes faster than I thought possible at this point. Their 3nm fab is under construction now for a cool $20 billion.

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MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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KillHour posted:





I've been running memtest for 2 hours and I still can't believe this is stable.

drat what memory do you have? My 3950X is sitting in the box waiting for me to make up my mind on the other stuff.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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B-Mac posted:

Funny as this sounds I致e found the game PUBG to be the most sensitive for memory stability. I can pass a bunch of different stress tests but PUBG will crash if it isn稚 rock solid.

Yeah games can sometimes be the best stress test, I had a weird issue where my PC would shut off randomly during certain games. I suspected an issue with the PSU but it could run Prime95 Small FFT + Furmark simultaneously for days. It turned out it was the PSU and The Witcher 3 was a bigger stress test than Prime95 and Furmark were.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Getting some decent results with bclk OC on my 3950X, regularly boosting to just short of 4.8GHz

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Fabulousity posted:

I've been using a 3700X for the past few days with everything left at defaults. Been happy with the temps and other stuff so given that is there any reason to mess with Ryzen Master? Has Windows 10 pretty much sorted out the issues with Ryzen power management, core parking, and all that stuff?

To clarify: I mean mess with fan or power curves or install the AMD provided power plans.

For me everything has worked great with default settings, I'm glad I waited rather than buying right at launch.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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priznat posted:

What did they do for the demo? Show bandwidth transfer values with their gpu or something?

Yeah, it wasn't misleading information per se as much as just totally irrelevant information.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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ConanTheLibrarian posted:

Is there any info about when Zen3 is expected to be released? It's not such a big jump from Zen2 to 3 as it was from Zen+ to Zen2, right? So the gap between releases could potentially be a little less than the year-and-a-bit cadence of prior releases.

I would expect a similar cadence so Q4 of this year or so, probably not as big of a jump as Zen 2 but the rumors are it's still pretty significant.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Kraftwerk posted:

I知 currently running a Kaby-lake system and I知 hearing a lot of buzz about AMD once again being the superior CPU for gaming applications.

Can anyone explain why?
I知 looking at building a new gaming system but feel hesitant about moving to AMD. The last time I had an AMD system I had all sorts of issues making my RAM work properly without crashing my system randomly. With intel everything is plug and play on my ROG motherboard.

I looked at benchmarks and intel still seems to edge out AMD for gaming applications. Having said that it seems the new consoles are going to be taking advantage of multi threading in ways previous ones have not. I imagine this means AMDs core advantage will actual make the 3000 and future 4000 series better than Intel?

TLDR: longtime intel gamer planning a new system build and debating getting a 3900X or 4000 series. Good idea or bad idea?

mdxi posted:

The 4X00s won't even be announced until September, so you can't make any meaningful decision there.

I don't personally know why you'd want a 3900X to play video games on. You're paying a huge premium over a 12 or 16 thread CPU, in exchange for lower clocks. The XBX and PS5 CPUs are going to look a lot like the 3700, if that helps any.

In my view, the 3900 and 3950 are quasi-workstation CPUs, for people who do want/need more cores but don't need a hundred PCI lanes and a terabyte of RAM.

Clocks are actually a bit higher and it's not that much of a premium for the 3900X anymore as it's selling for $400-420. Still doesn't make sense for just gaming and nothing else though, in that case the 3600 or 3700X makes the most sense. There were some quirks with the Ryzen 3000 parts at launch but they're long since ironed out, I got the 3950X at launch time and have had no issues. The main advantage of AMD for gaming is saving a lot of money while only being 5-10% slower than Intel worst case, especially if you get the 3600. The CPUs themselves are cheaper than their Intel counterparts and also they come with bundled coolers of decent quality for additional cost savings.

MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Apr 9, 2020

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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The 10700k is a solid chip but it's hard to pass up the 3900X at $390-410 right now unless you're doing all gaming, it has the biggest price cut of any Ryzen 3000 SKU vs original MSRP.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Jon Masters of Nuvia tweeted this and quickly deleted it, if Keller was gonna so somewhere that would be my guess.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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It seems common for AMD to release a refresh product at prices that make it unappealing vs the current discounted products, they will be price cut down to something that makes sense eventually.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Non-XT parts aren't going away, you'll still be able to get a 3600 for $159.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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EmpyreanFlux posted:

If there is one delay, there is always a second delay. Like, how does Intel catch up now? They're not going to have node lead for 4 years at this point in the best case scenario, if 7nm continues to trip up on meeting targets they're going to experience what it was like being AMD during the Sandy-Broadwell years. Like yeah they could backport core design to current process node, but every time they do that they waste a poo poo ton of money and time doing so.

Who was it that said uarch design was like playing Russian Roulette, except you pulled the trigger 4 years after loading the gun? Yeah, every time Intel has to backport because the process gets delayed, they load another bullet into the revolver.

They announced that they're moving Ponte Vecchio, their HPC GPU, to TSMC to avoid any delays so I'm sure they will be doing more of that going forward.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Of course I get to be the person with the nightmare scenario everyone dreamed of, my X570 fan has a bad bearing or something. This is an ASRock Taichi that I've had for 8 months. I think I will just have the fan curve utility start up automatically and keep it turned off rather than RMA the board over this.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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I don't necessarily think Zen 3 will be super supply constrained, especially since everything uses the same chiplets. Big Navi on the other hand...

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Paul MaudDib posted:

I kept sayin', once AMD finally beats skylake the prices will go up to Intel levels. That's 9900K pricing, paid $475 for my 8C just about exactly two years ago. The 8700K could have been cheaper depending on when you got it, OEM ones were $250 at microcenter for a while

zen2 is still there for something cheaper and like I said the argument is the same as it was for Intel, if you can get a 3600 for $160 you will have to personally do the math on whether +19% average performance is worth almost twice the money. I am reliably informed that the difference between 150 and 160 fps is not noticeable and it's not necessary to purchase anything faster than Zen2.

I like how high end buyers get a smaller percentage price increase lol, 5950X is a better value in cores/$ than the 5800X.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Looks like a 2700X still gets around $180 used on eBay, not bad at all.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Spiderdrake posted:

There's a desktop i9 in the list, isn't there?

People aren't kidding when they say Intel is more concerned with mobile / server

They would probably be releasing 10nm desktop stuff and mobile CPUs with more than four cores if their yields were better, that's been a big issue with 10nm.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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DrDork posted:

AMD doesn't need to be the "value" option anymore. So their chips won't be great values anymore. Standard business, really.

The 3600 might not stick around in retail channels, but it'll be super easy to get second hand at even better prices.

The good thing about AMD is they do price cuts especially on the SKUs that don't sell well, the 3800X now sells for $100 under MSRP. Also there will probably be a 5600 eventually, they just want to charge an earlier adopter premium, I'm surprised they're not charging more for the 5900X and 5950X tbh.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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bus hustler posted:

Everyone's wanting election returns and I just want Ryzen zen3 benchmarks

Yeah my thinking is if Trump wins I'm gonna try to laser focus on thinking about the 5950X.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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My strategy was to go for the 5800X as I figured the higher end parts were hopeless, I got it but I clicked so fast I ordered this dumb protection plan on accident lol.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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gradenko_2000 posted:

I'm terribly annoyed at a friend that's saying the 5800X is bad because it just manages to draw even with the i7-9700K, for almost twice the price... and their citation is userbenchmark.com

I always thought "well OK that site is super-biased but any real enthusiast is going to do their homework" and... well... I guess not.

In real reviews the 5800X beats the 10900k in many multithreaded tasks which is pretty incredible.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Any word on what the optimal RAM speed is for Zen 3? A quick Google search showed me a bunch of pre-launch speculation.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Zen 2 had kind of the same thing but not as pronounced, you want four ranks total so 4x8 or 2x16.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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movax posted:

The guy that built this wasn't the sharpest at paying attention. I shared that I typically nudge DDR voltage up for stability with multiple sticks (~1.375 V or so, so nothing egregious whatsoever) so for all I know, maybe he loving ramped it up at some point and murdered the IMC on the CPU.

I've had mine at 1.5V for a year , probably should back that off now that I have a Zen 3 CPU to abuse.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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hobbesmaster posted:

That痴 kind of impressive for DDR4. B-die?

Yeah the XMP was already like 1.4V IIRC.

EDIT: 1.45V actually, so not much of a bump

https://www.newegg.com/patriot-16gb...N82E16820225144

MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Nov 9, 2020

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Some observations from messing around with my 5800X

Auto-OC actually does things, seems to be a straight 100MHz boost to ST turbo, with my 3950X and this board (ASRock X570 Taichi) auto-OC does nothing. With Auto-OC and a bclk tweak I was able to break 5GHz which gave a slight performance benefit, it seems stable but I need to do more testing. Boost frequencies are much, much more consistent than with Ryzen 3000, probably because they're not trying to push every last MHz out of it.

In games the 5800X has similar temps as my 3950X (65-70C) but in things like Cinebench, Blender, or P95 it pegs at 90C with my Scythe Mugen 5 which is 10-15C higher than the 3950X. Oddly this doesn't seem to affect performance as much as with Zen 2 though, I'm still getting multithreaded performance that equals the reviews I'm seeing where they have lower temps. The all-core frequency only drops by around 50MHz when it hits the temp limit, usually sitting around 4.45GHz in rendering workloads.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Combat Pretzel posted:

I hear that Userbenchmark tweaked their final scoring scheme again and has RAM latency account for half of it now. The actual performance of a CPU implicitly accounts for it, so why even do that? Other than the obvious reasons. Some sourpusses they are.

They literally have a score for *market share* in their ranking which is very obviously stupid, I'm sure this will be adjusted prior to the Rocket Lake launch.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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My motherboard (ASRock X570 Taichi) has a broken X570 chipset fan that makes a loud, annoying noise. I dealt with this previously by setting a fan curve that never had it turn on. Unfortunately the fan control software hasn't been updated for Zen 3 and the new AGESA so I can't use it, is there any other way to turn this drat thing off?

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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VorpalFish posted:

Has anyone done any memory tuning on zen3 yet? Does the dram calculator work okay?

I have a 3600 c16 crucial kit that's probably e die. Just ruining it at xmp right now, wondering if it's worth tuning secondary timings.

Yeah the DRAM calc settings worked fine for me, I have my 3600CL16 B-die at 3800MHz.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Yeah I spent like a month tweaking timings with my Zen 2 chip (I have a problem) and the auto reset after X fails almost always did the trick, I only had to manually reset it once or twice.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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mdxi posted:

20% gen-over-gen is marginal? Also, some of us actually use computers to do work -- hard to fathom, I know.

That aside, you should look at your microcenter's website for availability instead.

For strictly gaming, the gains are actually closer to 25%. That's an incredible uplift by 2020 CPU standards, have we forgotten the dark ages of 2012-2017?

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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I'm messing around with the curve optimizer on my 5800X, I had some instability issues but eventually settled on -5 in the optimizer and a +50mV vcore offset. With advanced PBO and the max frequency set to +200 now I get a straight 5.05GHz boost. With Zen 2 the core OC settings basically did nothing so this is a pleasant surprise.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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If you set PBO to advanced an option called curve optimizer will appear that allows you to tweak the VF curve of the CPU, either to all of the cores or each individually. Some motherboards don't have it yet but it looks like this.



Most people are just setting it to -10-20 and in some cases adding a positive offset to the vcore, I'm not really sure what is going on here since I'm adding a negative offset to one setting and a positive offset with another setting but combined with +200 to the fmax setting you get a consistent +200 to the boost clocks.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Nohearum posted:

I'm hitting 89°C during Prime95 with my 5600x + Scythe Fuma 2. Is that bad?

Someone posted something earlier about Scythe having production issues recently but I'm not sure if that's true. I just know that I swapped out the Scythe Mugen 5 on my 5800X for an NZXT Kraken X53 and I went from constantly pegging the 90C limit in heavy workloads to 75-80C max. But I don't think Zen 3 cares much about being hot, even with the 90C temps before it only ran like 25MHz slower on the all core boost.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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sean10mm posted:

The 5800x is like $50 overpriced for what it is, people are being a bit melodramatic about it in the context of $1500 gaming PCs

For me it was the "I want a 5900X/5950X but they're not in stock" chip.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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The #2 most popular CPU on Amazon right now is a $180 Ryzen 5 2600, at one point that was selling for $80 in the form of the 1600AF

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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DrDork posted:

Everything is priced higher right out of the gate. DDR5 will likely be breathtakingly expensive compared to DDR4 based on it being brand new and on the move to push VRM onto the RAM stick instead of the motherboard.

There will also be considerable performance overlap for a while. The bottom of DDR5 is "only" 3200MT/s, while current DDR4 can easily exceed that, with budget sticks hitting 3600+ and "good" ones pushing 4000+MT/s. DDR5's official specs go up to 6400MT/s, compared to ultra-top-end overclocked DDR4 at around 5000MT/s, but pricing might mean that you can get comparable speed DDR4 for less than DDR5. Time will tell on that one. Obviously over time DDR5's unofficial/overclocked max will considerably eclipse DDR4, but that'll take a year or two to come out as the tech will need to mature a bit.

You can't make apples to apples comparisons like that.

https://www.micron.com/-/media/clie...l_update_wp.pdf

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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Dramicus posted:

I don't know about the 12 and 16 core parts, but I remember HW unboxed found the 5800x was on average 3-5 degrees hotter than the 3700x for the same power draw.

I have both the 5800X and the 5950X, the latter runs 20-25C cooler with the same cooling setup .

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MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

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They're not gonna drop Threadripper, it's normal for it to come months after the consumer chips. There's still a fair amount of prosumers and professionals at small companies who would appreciate not having to pay the full EPYC price. It's not something gamers buy for the ultimate overkill anymore with mainstream going up to 16 cores yeah, it's now solidly in the prosumer or professional category.

https://www.thestreet.com/investing...n-cpus-and-gpus

quote:

Bergman: 的 can't talk about unannounced products, but we're committed to the Threadripper family. And so you could certainly expect that we値l in the future continue to have products in that particular area. Absolutely.

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