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Also, that should just push you further out of the CPU-dependence realm?
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Apr 4, 2019 21:45
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Craptacular! posted:But remember guys to only use a pea-sized amount of paste. GC's got you covered! 
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Apr 9, 2019 04:54
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Ice cream is kind of a "heat sink" right? E: At least they're not trying to run it at 5GHz like last year! Stickman fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Apr 9, 2019 |
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Apr 9, 2019 05:26
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Per-
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Apr 9, 2019 20:38
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It seems like it'd mostly only be useful for making incremental changes that might cause boot failure. Every board should have some way to clear the CMOS that'll fix that - it'd just be more work to get your stable settings back.
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Apr 13, 2019 08:52
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Indiana_Krom posted:Wouldn't DDR5 require a different socket? Or at a bare minimum a different motherboard, because DDR5 is probably going to be keyed differently even if it has the same number of contacts? It'll require a different motherboard because the RAM itself will likely have a different socket and pinout. It'll also require a different memory controller on the CPU. It won't necessarily require a different CPU socket, though, and if AMD includes both a DDR4 and a DDR5 memory controller on Zen 3 chips, they could still be backward-compatible with previous AM4 motherboards. There's some precedent - I believe Skylake included DDR3 and DDR4 controllers?
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Apr 20, 2019 01:32
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Cygni posted:Supposedly not :/ Presumably you forgo a CPU cooler so you can show it off?
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Apr 27, 2019 03:28
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Paul MaudDib posted:I wonder if changing the coolant and adding a biocide (or just adding the biocide) right out of the package would help prevent buildup in the first place. I mean, you shouldn't have to, but right now there aren't that many other options, the Noctua isn't really intended for heavy overclocking (not sure why they didn't release a D15S variant for it too). It is pretty weird that they modified the 14s (and 12s!) and didn't bother with a TR4 D15s. What's your take on the best TR4 aircooling? The small amount of research I've done looks like it puts the Thermalright Silver Arrow on top, but there are probably some options out there that I'm not aware of.
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Apr 28, 2019 06:38
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Llamadeus posted:Noctua and BeQuiet seem to be way out in front if you care about noise at all: https://www.computerbase.de/2018-12/cpu-kuehler-amd-threadripper-test-luftkuehlung/3/#abschnitt_resultate_im_basistakt Paul MaudDib posted:I am underwhelmed by the U14S (and outright disappointed by every other cooler I saw before) but my understanding is that's the best cooler currently available. I hadn't seen results on the Silver Arrow; the money question is of course how it performs with the Noctua fans. Noctua's NF-A12x25 is so good that it completely distorts all results for coolers that aren't using it. Even their older fans beat the poo poo out of most of the stuff on the market. Thanks for these! It looks like the U14s is decently competitive despite lacking the double stack. The English reviews were all sadly spartan - there were only a few that even bothered to compare to a single other cooler, let alone a variety of competition. I love that chart and I'm amazed that temperature v. noise plots aren't standard for cooler reviews - it's such a natural way to visualize the trade-off. Tom's Hardware comes closest with their weird "acoustic efficiency" measure, but it's unnecessarily difficult to interpret. MaxxBot posted:People still buy the FX-8350 in significant numbers There has to be some sort of strange and/or sad story here. Are FX-8350s the new money laundering currency? Stickman fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Apr 30, 2019 |
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Apr 30, 2019 00:55
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Crotch Fruit posted:I did recently buy an FX-9370, but I sure as hell didn't buy it new. 4.4GHz 8 physical cores, loving 220W TDP. Here's the video, but you're missing this important observation from the author: quote:Hello guys, in the case of Rise of the Tomb Raider, FPS on AMD FX are not to trust at 100% since in the final part of the benchmarks, FX 8370 is unable to load properly the Textures, hence having more FPS and altering the metrics a little bit. That said, for older games and a fixed lower-mid-range GPU, it's not terribly surprising to see the performance gap diminish or disappear at higher resolutions. At lower frame rates, the CPU does less work, so as long as your under the fps range where those particular CPUs start being overloaded for a particular game, you're not going to see much of a performance difference. If you try running newer and more CPU-demanding games, you'll see a performance difference even into the lower frame rates, and same if you bump up the power of the GPU to push frame rates higher. You'll also start to see a drop off in frame rate stability (measured by 1% frame rates) before you see the average frame rates drop off. For instance, even this weirdo running Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 4k on a 2070 with everything turned up was seeing CPU frame rates drop into the 20s, reducing frame rate stability even though average fps was still 41 fps vs 42 on the 2600. Lowering the resolution or graphics settings to increase frame rate wouldn't affect the CPU spike frames, so you'd still have noticeable drops in frame rates, even though there's still some room before it starts noticeably affect the average fps. The other important factor (which is a repeat of previous conversation!) is that you could sell that FX-8370, motherboard, and RAM for ~$200 after the ebay/paypal cut, which is only $30 less than a decent 1600 + B450 + 16GB of RAM new at Microcenter. There's literally no reason to throw good money after bad if you have a working motherboard that supports an FX-8370. Just sell that poo poo to some other sucker and upgrade for pocket change! E: This is the same thing we're running into with older i5s (and occasionally i7s). Stability is starting to become an issue, even at <100 frame rates where average fps is still very close to top-of-the-line CPUs. Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:03 on May 1, 2019 |
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May 1, 2019 20:55
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My only justification for my purchase is I think I got a suffeciently good deal and the fact that I think it's a fun and
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Crotch Fruit posted:Second, the very next reply: The problem might not be 8370-specific, but it explains why the 8370 appeared to be performing better than the 1600 at 1440p. If it had correctly loaded the textures, the extra GPU display load would undoubtedly have put performance at parity. Crotch Fruit posted:Is the 1600 faster than an 8370? Yes. Is it more expensive? Hell yes. Is it even more expensive when you have to buy a new motherboard and RAM as well? Sure you can float the money while your parts sit on ebay waiting and hoping for a sale, I for one prefer not to rely on "sell that poo poo to some other sucker" to pawn off my old hardware too when I upgrade. Sure, you get a slightly better CPU, in ideal circumstances where eBay cooperates with you might end up spending an extra $30 more, but even in that scenario you will still have to pay to ship everything. If you care about cost, it's generally not worth keeping old motherboards until they die. Motherboards that can run an FX-8370 still sell for $100+ because people want replacements, but if you wait until it dies then it's worthless. I also wouldn't want to put one on any old AM3+ board - that power draw would easily over-stress the VRM on cheaper boards. Ebay listed sale prices don't include shipping, so you really would be getting nearly enough to upgrade to a brand-new 1600 system by selling the 8370 components. If you don't have $250 up front for the upgrade, a cpu upgrade could be sensible, but your not really saving an appreciable amount of money, you've significantly hamstrung your ability to play new AAA games or run at high frame rates, and you lose all that value if one of your now-very-old components bites the dust. Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:51 on May 1, 2019 |
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May 1, 2019 21:31
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Those are just the same “leaked” specs that wccftech posted back in December, so I’m pretty sure that’s where the numbers came from.
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May 3, 2019 08:32
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Socialist country knows that you don’t really need it, stop wasting our precious resources already.
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May 7, 2019 06:35
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iospace posted:It's actually a good price too now that I check. I may not overclock it (I might but it's not something that's a deal breaker), and I'm really not interested in having c00l lighting effects (My case doesn't have a window on it). The Tomahawk is great board, but the next tier up has a few features you may or may not be interested in. The MSi B450 Pro Carbon AC and the ASUS X470 Prime Pro are both $140, add a second M.2 slot, and upgrade the VRM, lan, and sound quality a bit. The Pro Carbon also has built-in Wifi/bluetooth, while the Asus board has further enhanced audio, Asus' better RBG, more PCIe lanes (from the X470 chipset, though your unlikely to need them), and a USB 3.1 Gen 2 front panel header (vs Gen 1 on Pro Carbon AC). Overclocking can be a good idea if you're targeting high refresh rates, but you'd need an aftermarket cooler to get a good overclock on a non-X 2700. The Scythe Mugen 5 Rev.B is a great option that's almost as good as the top-tier Noctua air coolers despite being a bit smaller and cheaper (though it's still relatively expensive). I'd probably start with the stock cooler and think about an aftermarket cooler when you run into a game that could benefit from overclocking. E: Whoops, links! Stickman fucked around with this message at 22:28 on May 18, 2019 |
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May 18, 2019 22:21
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iospace posted:While going through those links, I came across this: https://m.newegg.com/msi-performance-gaming-x470-gaming-plus/p/N82E16813144177?item=N82E16813144177 For $120 that's a decent $10 upgrade over the Tomahawk! The Asus X470 Pro has the same number of rear USB ports (though one is Type C), but adds the internal Gen 2 USB connector, better audio (The X470 Gaming Plus has the same audio system and the Tomahawk), which might be worth the $20 upgrade, depending on your priorities! If you're case doesn't have Gen 2 front-panel USB, you can also use a bracket to add a rear Type C port, though you might not need two! Stickman fucked around with this message at 00:11 on May 19, 2019 |
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May 19, 2019 00:08
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fknlo posted:I really wish I'd bought a 1080ti. Instead I have this loud as hell 1080 that has fan rattling that's getting worse and worse as time goes by. I catch a 2080 below $600(that isn't Zotac) and I'll probably buy it just to get rid of this loving thing. You should still have at least a week left on the warranty. I'd RMA it and see what they send you.
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May 21, 2019 20:24
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Craptacular! posted:B450 Pro carbon has better built-in audio and two m.2 slots, one of which doesn't rob any of the SATA ports. Tomahawk's one slot does. If the Carbon is a reasonably priced step up, get that. The Pro Carbon is my go-to recommendation if you want two m.2 slots. Besides the better audio, it's also small VRM upgrade over the Tomahawk, has built-in wifi/bluetooth, and you get Intel LAN instead of Realtek. It's usually $25-30 more expensive than the Tomahawk, though, so if you don't really need the extra features it's not worth it. The Asus Prime X470-Pro is also a decent choice if when it's around the same price as the Pro Carbon (right now they're both $140). It has most of the same features as the Pro Carbon, but loses the Wifi and gains a USB 3.1 Gen 2 front panel header, 2 additional 3.1 Gen 1 ports of the back, and is another step up in onboard audio.
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May 22, 2019 02:19
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It's a SFF ITX case. It's ~17 liters, which puts it about halfway in between tiny SFF cases like the Dan Case A4 (7.5 liters) or NCase M1 (12.5 liters) and standard ITX mini towers like the NZXT H200 (26 liters) or Fractal Design Nano S (27 liters). Here's the DA2 (right) next to an NCase M1 (middle) and an M1 (left) vs. a Nano S (right)  E: Okay, Imgur bbcode apparently isn't working for me after their site update. What am I doing wrong? Here's the link to the pictures. E2: It no longer automatically adds ".jpg" to the end of the link in bbcode - need to do that yourself, apparently. Stickman fucked around with this message at 00:36 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 00:30
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pixaal posted:Benchmark both ways and present both, explaining the above that RAM speed is going to be up to the laptop manufacturer for the most part. This is the solution. If you bench only with equivalent RAM, you're isolating the graphical unit for testing, but you're missing an important component of real-world performance. Testing only at max-speed RAM is misleading if installed systems may not have max RAM. It's like GN's CPU tests where they only pair with the most powerful GPU and mostly test games at low/medium settings at 1080p in order to try to find the CPU bottleneck points. It's great for people who understand the complete model can interpret the data, but it's misleading for consumers who might come away with the ideas like "an overclocked 9900k is a ~20% boost to game fps over a 2600X" when you're unlikely to see any difference at all for most common GPU/monitor/game configurations. Steve does add a few comments and charts on that, but I do wish he'd add more real-world-type comparisons.
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May 28, 2019 19:03
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Just upscale from 1080/1440/1800p and maybe turn down some settings. Or don’t play games, that’s fine too. 
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Jun 2, 2019 14:26
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Didn't spot this posted yet. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-pcie-4.0-socket-am4-motherboard,39559.html Amd nixes PCIe 4.0 on X470/B450 motherboards That’s slightly disappointing, but Im still lukewarm on PCIe 4.0 in general. It sounds like it’s adding significant cost to X570 boards, but outside of very specific use cases I’m not really seeing how it’s going to be useful to consumers in even a few years. The best use cases are things like additional total bandwidth for GPU processing banks and the line, which aren’t the sort of thing you’d want to run on consumer motherboards anyway. E: Maybe ultra-fast ethernet? Still not something that most consumers are going to need or want in the near future. Stickman fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 19:13
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Seamonster posted:How significant a price increase are we talking here? I was always going to get whatever chipset launched with Zen2 but if boards are 50% more then ewwww. 15-20% I could still (begrudingly) stomach. We're not really going to know for sure until more partners release the launch prices for their full stack or until launch in four days, but for now what we know is that there are going to be some very expensive options at the top-end and that Gigabyte's X570 stack (starting at $200 for the Elite) is more expensive than their X470 lineup, which started at $140 for the for Ultra Gaming. That said, Gigabyte's X470 offers were pretty anemic outside of the $240 Gaming 7 and the Elite looks like it has better power management than the X470 Gaming 5 or Ultra, so it's tough to extrapolate to other product stacks. We'll see soon enough though! We'll also see if the new 25% tariffs will affect prices. E: Basically they seem designed to support overclocking on the 3900X, which makes sense but is likely a massive overkill for the less power-hunger chips. I suppose much of the price increase could be VRMs rather than PCIe 4.0, though, but it seems plausible that the more refined manufacturing process required for signal fidelity would contribute to the additional cost. Actuarial Fables posted:From the prices I've seen, the "entry-level" x570 boards come in sub-$200. The x470 and b450 boards will support Zen2 though, so unless you need the features of the new chipset then you could save some money. Have you seen prices for stacks outside of Gigabyte? I could have sworn I saw some somewhere, but I can't find them anymore. Stickman fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 20:39
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Unless you're streaming it's very unlikely that the 3900x is going to be much of a gaming advantage over the 3600x, at least not until games start making better use of more cores/threads. The 2600x and 2700x already have nearly identical performance.
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Jun 9, 2019 02:58
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Basically. The Asus Strix X470-I or the weirdly identical B450-i are the only ITX boards that gets you decent VRM + 2 PCIe M.2 slots + better quality onboard sound + 4xUSB 3.0 & 2x3.1 Gen 2 on the back. The MSi B450i Gaming Plus has better VRM, but you lose the second M.2 slot, some onboard sound quality, and some have fewer USB 3.0 ports. The ASRock boards lose VRM quality, the second M.2 slot, and fewer 3.0 ports (though one of the Gen 2 ports is type C). Honestly, though, they all have fine VRM for a decent overclock on a 2600X. You'd want one of the higher-end VRMs for overclocking a 2700X (or probably a 3700X+), but you may not be likely to do that in a small case! As long as you have decent airflow, the VRM itself shouldn't be an issue.
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Jun 10, 2019 08:49
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spasticColon posted:So in order to get the most out of Zen 2 I'll have to buy very fast and very expensive RAM? Only if you have an application that would actually benefit from a 3950X running at full tilt (and which you're not already throwing a Threadripper or EPYC at). Stickman fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 20:23
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Twerk from Home posted:What is the situation like for 1U boards and coolers for Ryzen? 12C parts so cheap will turn the 1U short depth market on its head. Remote management could include a GPU suitable for installing OS and booting. I honestly surprised that they haven't created a basic workstation gpu in a type-c usb stick that could be used for exactly that purpose (with chipset support). Or maybe they have?
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Jun 10, 2019 21:11
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Are there very many gaming situations where memory latency matters more than memory bandwidth? Those numbers look like at least 3200-3733 is comparable to 2nd-gen+3200CL14 latency. 
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Jun 11, 2019 04:54
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spasticColon posted:Unfortunately, my Sandy Bridge board is a P67 series. I might sell the RAM though. Everything else is my system is so old I don't think I could resell it for much. Does used DDR3 RAM (Two different 2x4GB kits) fetch a good price? Ram doesn't go for much (maybe $15-25), but working P67 motherboards still sell for $50-80 and 2500ks for $40-50. The 1070 is still fine for 1080p/60, though you might want to turn down a setting or two in demanding/poorly optimized games like AC:Origins.
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Jun 13, 2019 00:40
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Palladium posted:Nobody should bother with used Intel CPUs and mobos anymore. Good DDR4 is so cheap now, and the 6 core gen1 or gen2 Ryzen on mobo combo deals wipes the price/perf floor out of them an actual warranty and without the questionable reliability of an 8 year old used mobo. Nobody should, but there's still plenty of people willing to throw a $70 bandaid on an old system rather than $250 to upgrade. And to be fair, even though the upgrade is a much better value it is still quite a bit more expensive. VVVV Good point - the math definitely works out differently in different places, too! VVV Stickman fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 01:57
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Yeah, we're at the point where 4/4 is starting to cause problems in some games, but 4/8 is generally still good enough for gaming. It's definitely next on the chopping block, though.
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Jun 13, 2019 02:36
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It’s not just Ubi/BF5, though. A lot of other newer AAA titles like Hitman 2 and Shadow of the Tomb Raider are starting to have major frame pacing issues on 4/4 processors. Even if they’re not to the point of completely bottlenecking the GPU, hitching and stutter is pretty terrible for the experience.
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Jun 13, 2019 18:11
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The APU point is good, but I have seen other similar reports for Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Hitman 2. SotTR, disabling cores/threads on a 6850k and 1700x.  I am curious why the 1600 performed so poorly in techspot's benchmark, though - their numbers for the 7600k line up pretty well with the 4/4 6850k, but the 1600 isn't even close to the 6/12 1700x (or even the 4/8). (E: Possibly less of a core issue and more overall performance?) Hitman 2 is a little less clear, but the 8100 looks like it has similar 3% frame times to the 2400G:  Maybe it's close enough to the edge that the improved single-core performance of the 7600k can eliminate hitching. I've seen several people complaining about stutter/hitching with those processors, but that could be a number of other things, too. So far as "which wins", though, if you care about playing the games with frame pacing issues, that's a much bigger deal that getting a small amount of extra performance for a game that's already playing smoothly! I'd still like to know what's going on with New Dawn, though - is that a Ryzen issue or a single-core performance issue? Stickman fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 19:32
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nerdrum posted:Stupid question, I'm using an 8600k at 5ghz right now, I do very VERY VERY large 70+mp raw conversion of medium format stuff, is jumping to a 3900x going to be a marked improvement from what I'm using now in CaptureOne? Harik posted:CaptureOne uses GPU acceleration so that specific part of your workflow probably won't change at all. Is it just GPU, or is it mixed GPU/CPU? I'd check CPU usage during conversion - if it's heavily loading all 6 of your cores, then you'd probably see a performance improvement. If it's only using a few cores (or just the GPU), then you won't see a difference
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Jun 16, 2019 23:55
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SO DEMANDING posted:Yeah, now try shopping for an mITX board Farmer Crack-rear end posted:If having "only" six USB ports on the rear is the least-worst compromise you can find, seems to me it's time to just bite the bullet and grab a USB hub. OP post/username? I wouldn't hold my breath on eight-USB itx B550s, though. E: If you really need more USB ports running faster than a HUB, get a board with a 2x PCIe M.2 slots and use a M.2 to PCIe x4 riser to add a USB card. I think the ASRock X470 ITX board might also support bifurcation of the GPU x16 slot, which you could use to add USB ports via a riser. Stickman fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jun 17, 2019 |
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Jun 17, 2019 01:55
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Combat Pretzel posted:That newest Noctua cooler is relatively compact considering, and gives AIOs a run-around. It’s more compact in the bulk sense, but the U12a is still 158mm tall with its fan, which is only 2mm less than the D15s. If an ITX case can fit a 240mm radiator, that’ll usually offer better cooling than the air coolers that can fit (the M2 is restricted to 130mm).
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Jun 17, 2019 18:12
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Combat Pretzel posted:The latencies are generally higher in 2:1 mode, anyway. Who'd want that? Latency was one of the complaints of Zen(+). Then again, checking out places like r/pcmasterrace, sometimes it's just about the e-penis instead of practical performance. I could certainly imagine quiet a few applications where bandwidth is more important than latency (especially with the the 3950X). In fact, unless your not gaining very much bandwidth, I'd suspect that it's far more important in most applications.
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Jun 18, 2019 18:30
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Aren't the rumblings more that Zen 2 remains stable at much higher power draw than Zen+? So they'll probably have identical cooling profiles at stock, but Zen 2 can take advantage of additional power/cooling beyond Zen+?
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Jun 18, 2019 18:59
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Twerk from Home posted:I'd be surprised if existing cheaper motherboards could keep up well with the power draw of 12C / 16C parts overclocked. I'd won't disagree, but "overclocked" isn't a binary state. The question is more "how much performance are you leaving on the table by only overclocking to the limit of existing cheaper motherboards?" Also, "do you need that extra performance", I guess, since they'll still significantly outperform Zen+ at stock. E: Also, "How much does the ADM's claimed stock TDP actually reflect the stock power requirements?"
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Jun 18, 2019 19:32
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:All complexes on Zen2 run through through the IF on the IO die, you're going to be choked down to that speed regardless. This is exclusively for dipshit overclockers to get a bigger epeen number Do we know where the if memory bandwidth through IF maxes out? If it's where it switches to 2:1 mode, why bother adding that at all?
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Jun 18, 2019 20:18
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Theris posted:Better in terms of build quality and power delivery, not features/connectivity. So if you want, say, tons of SATA ports or 2.5G Ethernet or the like (or lots of RGB) you might still be better off with a mid/high-end X470 board vs a similarly priced low-end x570 board. We'll have to wait and see, but just at a glance I'm guessing the VRM is about equivalent to the Prime X470 Pro, which is $140 now but launched at $185. I'd honestly be surprised if the X570 Prime P is under $200.
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Jun 22, 2019 05:46
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