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Thotimx posted:The weekend was a bit crazy, but I should have the next update up later today. Thotimx posted:Races getting stuck can happen -- last time I played on Average I ended up with 25 planets at one point, nobody else had more than three. But those kinds of things do tend to be the exception. And it just happened to me for a third time in a row, this time on hard. I had the entire east side of the map to myself. The only way to get to the west side (until sufficiently high ranges were researched) was through Orion in the south, or through the Humans in the north. And I got on the Humans' friendly side, letting me spend the entirety of the early game free from having to defend myself. Then, once everyone got pissed off at me for having 11 planets, destroyers with class II shields and Ion cannons made my fleets nearly invincible against their lasers and few if any shields, even against capital ships. Also, I had so much production, that I could raise fleets on an as needed basis, surging production when I saw an incoming enemy fleet. Map. My mouse is over the homeworld.
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May 17, 2017 18:58
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General Revil posted:It's Wednesday. I think your weekend was much crazier than you give it credit for. LOL. Monday was a family day and part of the weekend for me. Sun/Mon the way my schedule works. Anyway, that kind of thing happens a lot more on smaller galaxies; see the Humans and Sakkra in this first LP game. Looks like you had a real nice setup there, aside from the poor planets. This kind of thing is why I think the larger galaxies are generally harder, not easier as the manual indicates -- although there are some easier aspects to them as well. You don't get as much of this with more systems around. Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 20:46 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 20:44
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Episode I: 2450-2475 A completely empty threat ... and what about the Silicoids Mr. Birdface? Again though, tensions brewing. As was alluded to before, why not just attack the Silicoids now? Well, they've got allies.  We're maintaining a small tech lead, but with the amount of effort going into the fleet that won't last. Otherwhise nobody seems to be getting the upper hand.  Holding steady at best now.  The rest of the laser-based destroyers will go away soon.  The fleet is starting to get expensive.  It's all about the terraforming. Nothing else is close and that will give us a much-needed boost. For better or worse the Psilon Empire is almost ready for war. Not quite there yet; that'll wait until after High Council V convenes. The goal for now is to get the next round of terraforming done and modernize the fleet some more, get some more bases built, get a little more ready. The patient, long game is usually the best option but we can't really hope for more than a stalemate here. Galactic politics are against us as well. Of the three empires we can attack: ** Alkaris would be easy pickings but we'd then be dead meat in the Council. Genocide ticks everyone off. ** The Darloks are our only sort-of friend now; if we fail, they'll vote against us. ** The Silicoids always have one or two allies. Fighting them means taking on almost half the galaxy. So there aren't a lot of great options here. If we wait longer, our carefully designed Stingers could become obsolete. The rate of tech advances really slows at this point. Hopefully something happens in the next couple decades to shake up this deadlock. A year later the last remaining laser ships are scrapped, and the money used to fund increased studies on the research planets. I want that terraforming, and I want it now.  Takes a few more years, but we get there. Same choices as before; this was a previous tier tech. The atmospheric terraforming would really boost border worlds of Arietis and Willow; Advanced Eco Restoration has a smaller effect, but would still cut our ecology spending in half everywhere. It's pretty small right now and there's a non-trivial difference in the research cost, so I choose the Atmospheric option. We won't be seeing this anytime soon regardless. Now we have the possibility of 30M more per planet, 180M total. The Silicoids got this about 15-20 years ago; the Darloks haven't gotten anything like it. The rich get richer. Total empire max. pop right now is 372M, so we're talking about almost increasing it by half. This is HUGE, esp. when you consider it's probably worth two extra Council votes. Per-planet cost is 120 BC, so it's an investment but not a huge one; about half of our income for a year and then waiting for the growth.  At the same time(2454), I notice this. Look who decided to come say hello. It's our good buddies the space rocks. Arietis has 10 bases and most of the fleet; still, let's put off that terraforming and build a few more while they come in. You must properly greet a Silicoid when it comes to visit, and it's been so very long since we had them over for tea ... Bunch of cruisers there along with the one capital ship. At the very least we should have a chance to scan them and see what we'd be up against in the event of a war. Everywhere else, it's terraforming time.  They're here ... and they suck, for the most part. Lots of death spores. Bombs on a colony ship?? Umm, ok. Due to the combination of speed and biologicals, we want to take out the Makos first, then Colony Ships because of the bombs, then Polaris. Whatever that big Monitor wants to do is pretty much fine. They should do limited damage if any with those lasers. Here goes nothing ...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap_IKj883rg Victory! But not without cost. We did lose some ships ... and learned those mass drivers don't do a whole lot in the numbers I have. Stinger missiles? Two volleys from the dozen bases took out a huge ship, and they tore those cruisers apart well. Them I like. Those lasers are going away before too long though ... spies report they have developed the fusion beam. Honestly Zygot doesn't really care though, since we aren't going to be going toe-to-toe with them. The environmental damage was significant; Arietis is down to 5M citizens with a max of 10: 17M were killed by the death spores. The rocks are willing to risk the ire of the galaxy(biologicals upset all races) to take us out. We'll remember this. And if they'd gotten off a couple more salvos of them, the colony would have been destroyed. It was closer than it appeared. So we will terraform for a third time, with the planetary reserve featuring in the funding. And perhaps many more times to go -- as many as are necessary. Our estimates are that this was about a third, at least a quarter, of the Silicoid fleet. I think our Sting Raids can wreak havoc on them ... and their allies are not likely to have enough tech to worry us. The drums of war are beating louder, but first we must grow our other worlds after the terraforming. Having proven themselves of little use, the first batch of Star Streaks are scrapped. They never served a purpose much greater than deterrence.  Good luck with that. Ours aren't for sale.  When it rains it pours.  And speaking of pouring .... We can only fight this war on the defensive unless we want to risk ticking everyone off by eliminating them. Between these two items, our trade income is slashed from about 300BC to 52BC per year. The Alkari part of it we aren't getting back, but we already had some more Sting Raids en route to Willow. We'll wait and see if they can make a difference against the pirates, along with the ships already there. The Alkari have 12 cruisers(Condors) along with three more colony ships headed to Tyr. We have 8 bases there, which I'm confident can handle the situation. Aside from Fusion Bombs, their tech is ... not great. After considering this for a year or two, in 2460, the year before we were to arrive, I decide to send the fleet to Altair. Punching them in the mouth is a good way to get peace -- and otherwhise we can just bombard them from orbit and see how their ability to wage war survives that. Of course if we accidentally destroy the colony entirely we'll be screwed, but I don't think our fleet is big enough to do that. Hopefully. It doesn't all go; 40 Sting Raids which is maybe a quarter of the total. Let's see how many ships and bases they want to lose before they decide fighting us isn't a good idea. Factories and people after that, if they persist. That set up two battles the following year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCrONkPF93g Hmm. Gatling Lasers. An invasion fleet with Gatling Lasers. A single missile base could hold them off indefinitely. And our strike knocked out 10 missile bases along with the cruisers. Let's just hang around there and give them some more punishment ... The next year almost all of the rest of Altair's bases were destroyed, but Willow's pirate problems continued. More ships were sent there as well, with only a token amount remaining at Arietis.  Another year, and we've got superiority over the Alkari homeworld. It's a simple yes/no decision as you can see here, with the population and factories listed. There is no indication of how much damage you'll cause; it would be a lot better if there was an 'estimated casualties' listed or somesuch. You just have to estimate it based on experience, something you get better at throughout the game. Bombs are the best weapons for this, beam weapons pretty much suck ... let's see how several dozen stingers do.  Not very well. They'll grow population and produce factories faster than this. All this will do is annoy them. We'll send more ships when we can.  Sooner rather than later, with this bit of concurrent good news. We've kept up the pounding of Altair, gradually whittling away their industrial base and keeping the population around the same. They are still loathe to sign a peace agreement, calling Emperor Zygot 'dishonorable'. I'm not sure why, since that usually happens when you break an agreement and they were the ones to break one with us.  This was quite the interesting bit of news; four years before the next Council vote, we find the Silicoids without allies for the first time. They are also racking up the weapons tech, but it seems the galaxy is turning against them. It seemed to start shortly after they used the death spores against us. That might have been the match that lit the powder keg, as it were. If it wasn't so close to a vote we'd attack now -- but they probably won't find so many supporters as before, and it looks like our moment will come afterwards.  More bad news for the rocks, which is quite fine with us. As the bulletin implies, this is just a matter of moving enough ships into the system. If the comet hits, the planet is destroyed and the star marked as uninhabitable. That'd just be a shame, but I doubt they'll screw this up.  For the fourth straight time, it's Zygot and Granid doing the honors. The Darloks are neutral this time, but that's fine; we just need them to not take the other side.  Sakkras persist on the wrong side of history.  The Humans have flipped. This is about hating the Silicoids, not liking us Psilons. But whatever works; we'll take it.  The Silicoids are up to 7 votes this time, still at a full third exactly. I thought the birdbrains would stay neutral what with being at war with both parties, but apparently they really, really hate us.  We're up to 6 votes, and abstain again. As before all we need is for everyone to not be against us, and we easily met that. It's an evenly split Council.
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May 19, 2017 04:44
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Thotimx posted:And speaking of pouring .... We can only fight this war on the defensive unless we want to risk ticking everyone off by eliminating them. I was going to ask if you couldn't blockade their system, and then that's exactly what you did next.
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May 19, 2017 07:09
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So if there's a modifier for using bio-weapons, is there a modifier for being the target of bio-weapons? And does declaring war on another race impose a negative modifier?
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May 19, 2017 12:27
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Randalor posted:So if there's a modifier for using bio-weapons, is there a modifier for being the target of bio-weapons? And does declaring war on another race impose a negative modifier? Pretty sure being attacked by bio-weapons only gives you the warm fuzzy feeling that the other guy is now disliked pretty universally for what they just did. Aside from that, doubt there is anything else. Also, IIRC there is no real penalty for the act of declaring war itself, but rather breaking non-aggression pacts/alliances, which both make the other side unhappy, as well as others to consider you untrustworthy. But then it's been several years since I last played, and I never really delved too deep into the programming of the diplomatic logic of the game, so I might just be flat out wrong  Heck, I'm not even sure there is a set state of war, rather than just lack of NAP/alliance, and yet the Alkari declaration says otherwise, so dunno.
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May 19, 2017 16:30
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Thotimx posted:The environmental damage was significant; Arietis is down to 5M citizens with a max of 10: 17M were killed by the death spores. How exactly does this work? Does it add a bunch of pollution to the planet you have to cleanup at whatever your tech rate is? Or does it actually decrease the max population and require re-terraforming?
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May 19, 2017 16:46
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Mzbundifund posted:How exactly does this work? Does it add a bunch of pollution to the planet you have to cleanup at whatever your tech rate is? Or does it actually decrease the max population and require re-terraforming? The former. It directly kills population, and it reduces the cap via the pollution mechanic. Nasty stuff, but population is generally easy come easy go so long as the colony survives--you still have all the factories so you don't have to build back up. Just have to dispose of all the dead bodies littering the streets and factories.
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May 19, 2017 16:56
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StarFyter posted:Pretty sure being attacked by bio-weapons only gives you the warm fuzzy feeling that the other guy is now disliked pretty universally for what they just did. Yep, that's it. As far as war goes, I think the next period gets into this, but you don't actually declare war. The other races decide when they are at war with you, which is kind of weird. Breaking agreements is bad, but not as bad as attacking without breaking them; espionage/sabotage really ticks them off, and obviously blowing up their ships, bombing their planets, and other manner of warlike activities are real good ways to tick them off also.
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May 19, 2017 22:44
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Episode I: 2475-2487 Still the same story more or less: we're holding about even with the Darloks, and can't catch up in production(they appear to have put their Robotic Controls IV into use now).   Over 200 stinger-bearing destroyers now, and we aren't going to do much better than that.  Right about at a third of our income going to the military. That's basically full mobilization in practical terms; you can go a lot higher but it gets really difficult to have a competitive economy. Most of the new spending will go into missile bases, not ships. Willow and Arietis still have a little room to grow, but the other four planets have all been maxed out for a few years with the new population.  We're closest to getting the ECM Jammer here; that's not going to matter right now. After that probably the planetary shield is next and that'll be a bigger deal, but it'll be a while. We're in the mid-level range now in terms of advancement, and for the most part will be operating with what we have, for better or worse.  The rocks have managed to get an alliance back with the Sakkra, but they're at war with the other two small races. Darloks remain totally on the sidelines. They've added the Graviton Beam and Cloning to leap ahead of us in overall tech, but neither of those figure to matter much. Cloning will help their economy a bit if they use it. More worrying is the Armored Exoskeleton, which will make them tougher than us in ground combat. We'll really have to send a lot of troops to dislodge them. However, we will be able to out-grow them. First things first though. It's clearly the time for war here -- we aren't going to have a better opportunity and it's the only forseeable way to change our 'losing stalemate' situation. We don't even have a choice of targets; only Kronos is within range.  We inform the Silicoids that we are breaking our trade agreement; they are less than pleased. I have no idea what a denebian sewer crawler is, but the comparison rather obviously isn't a compliment. This is better than attacking without breaking the agreements first however -- other empires, and not just them, will consider that twice as bad in a dastardly, backstabbing way. They still consider our relations 'Amiable', but we get the Diplomat Gone thing -- this indicates they aren't willing to speak with us for a few years. Well we don't want to speak with them. Instead, we'll send several dozen Sting Raids to do the communication. It's time to release the dogs of war!! It takes only a year to get there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOt6WuWZK10 That strike from the missile bases hurt. Their Merculite missiles are fast enough to hit us; we'll have to remember that and only stick around for the first volley anywhere they have a lot of bases. 35 Destroyers perished for that miscalculation. Took almost all of them out though which is nice. This also shows, by the way, how this 'hit-and-run' tactic becomes less effective over time.  Yeah, they aren't amused. Leading to war is the whole point. We can't actually declare war on them, because reasons; the AI empires only are allowed to declare one. That's a weird game design bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh8BsSf1DgU Now the bases are gone, and their ships aren't fast enough to reach us in time to do any damage. We can pound them like this until we control the space above Kronos; then it will be time to invade.  They're sending reinforcements, because why wouldn't they? This is the bulk of them. It'll take some time to knock them all out. Their fleet is still much bigger than ours, but a few years from now that shouldn't be the case. After a couple more years, we achieve space superiority at Kronos in 2479. Most of their ships choose to run away rather than fight. Either way is fine with me. Time for our first planetary invasion. Kronos presently holds 92M population. We need enough transports to defeat that many and have extra left over to man the colony. Given the current state of tech I'm going to estimate at least 150M will be needed; I'll explain why once I'm able to show the first ground invasion battle. That is a crapton of people, and most of them are going to die. Invasions are expensive, but worthwhile. Arietis is still regrowing and doesn't have any extra people to send. Tyr/Denubius/Willow all send half of their max. population, and Imra/Mentar a sizable amount each, reducing them to 100M remaining. All told, 179M Psilons are loaded into transports and shipped off, about a third of the empire. That might be overkill, but if so it is not by much. It's crucial that we remain in control of the space above Kronos until they arrive. All planets will also go into max ecology spending for at least a year; the economy is going to tank until we get the population back up. As an example:  Denubius will get an extra 7M in population growth this year due to this; still keeping a fairly small amount in research to avoid any 'atrophy' penalty. ProTip: You can grow up to a quarter of a planet's current population this way. I didn't actually hit that limit with any planets due to the cost; 20 BC per million, and we don't have any techs that reduce that cost(such as Cloning) yet.  This is the first time we've actually caught someone stealing, though I suspect we've been hit by the Darloks and didn't discover it. You're only told if you catch them. This is a big 'so what', since they already have a better armor than this it won't help them that much. Usually when at war though I tend to up the internal security to +10% and I forgot, so I'll do that now. Also a good time to show off a little-known feature that is not documented anywhere and was clearly added late in development; the Caught Spies report. The only way you can get to it is by the 'C' hotkey.  We caught one Alkari spy last year. If you suspect a lot of enemy activity, this is a good thing to check. The manual recommends raising internal security to maximum in order to catch a lot of spies even if they are hiding; I've not found this to be particularly effective but if I run into a game where they are stealing and blowing up a lot of stuff, I will try it and see if I have any better luck. It's expensive. Just doing the +10%(one-quarter of the max) on internal security costs 5% of income as I mentioned previously; I don't think it's usually worth going higher than that. In 2481, the first of our armies arrive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXIV_lLaQl4 And then there's also this:  They take out the comet just in time. That will free up their fleet to come after us, but I'm not at all concerned. The kill ratio in that ground invasion is more concerning. About 3:1 in the Silicoids favor. That means we didn't send nearly enough! We'll send more ... and bomb them to at least nullify the growth rate. However, that will also destroy a lot of factories which is why I haven't been doing it up to this point. The invasion video background is just like landing on a planet to colonize it as you probably noticed, with the exception of course of the existing colony on the right and the troops display. The key thing to notice is the tech at the bottom. We had Duralloy Combat Armor and Hand Lasers; they had no weapon but Zortrium Armored Exoskeletons. Each of these give a bonus to ground combat rolls. The way it works is that size of force is irrelevant; you get nothing for outnumbering them. Each 'round' will result in 1 trooper, i.e. 1M population, dying off from one side or the other until one side has none left. Whoever has troops remaining controls the planet. It's a random roll of 1-100, with the default odds being 55-45 in favor of the defender. The more tech you have, the more you shift this in your favor. Bulrathi get a +25 so that would start them out at 70-30 attacking, 80-20 defending; if you don't have better tech than them don't even try basically. It would appear it's about a 75-25 proposition here in favor of the Silicoids, which is about right; the Hand Laser only gives us +5, Zortrium is better than Duralloy armor and Armored Exoskeleton is much better than Combat Armor(the starting option). You can also have personal shields, those have come up but we've bypassed them. It is kind of amusing to consider the possibility of marching every able-bodied adult into combat as your 'army', but overall I like the system used here. It'd be nice if size of force mattered, but the fact that it doesn't ensures the tech wins out and maybe that's better. Makes it simpler also, but it definitely could have been expanded/refined. Quite important is the fact that if you win an invasion, you keep the factories intact(though you have to refit them) and you have a chance of discovering tech(up to six advances per planet!) that they have but your empire doesn't. How many you discover is based on a random factor and the amount of factories you capture -- that makes it much better to preserve them. In this case we almost have to bomb them though -- we could eventually wear them down with numbers, but that would take a very long time and a ton of people. In this case I'm choosing a middle path; some bombing but we're still going to try to leave some infrastructure intact.  A little dense, but they are starting to get the point. We'd officially be at war already if relations hadn't started off so well. Also, this is one of those diplomatic messages that really wasn't proofread apparently, which I find a bit aggravating.  Here's a nice little bit of work by the AI; they clearly put some cloning effort in. Grew from 80 to 90M in a single year -- that doesn't happen naturally. We couldn't even bomb it all away, and took out 25 factories in the process. I don't think there's going to be much left to salvage once we take it .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5dhI70yUh4 Lost 100M, killed 37M. Them there are bad odds. And they finally declare war. Still have 92M on the way, but another few dozen are sent as I'm thinking that's not going to be enough. As you can see this can be a real undertaking.  By the way, check out our improving relations with the Alkari here. This is because of the key dynamic of MOO Diplomacy: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We're still at war with the birds, but may well get a peace out of this. Every time we attack the Silicoids, we get a boost to our Alkari relations because they are at war with them as well. ProTip: If you are in a situation where you can't quite get an AI empire to do something you want them to do, attacking an enemy of theirs can often push them over the edge. After another round of bombardment and troop combat, resulting in 29 factories and a couple dozen more dead population, they register their approval ... sort of. And with the same bad grammar.  And we also discover the Silicoids have developed Class X Planetary Shields. CRAP.ON.A.STICK. That's a game-changer, because when they get those built, our Stingers will do nothing against their bases. Literally nothing. We've got to take what we can, as quickly as we can within reason. The Alkari agree to a peace treaty, but aren't interested in a trade deal. We'll try that again later. The next year we incinerate 7 cruisers that decided to show up, and get their population down to 14M. That'll be enough bombing now; they won't be able to grow much from there. Still destroyed 79 factories in three years of bombardment; they had over 200 so some is still intact, but it's costly nonetheless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcba9_9v3wE Finally we achieve victory! Hundreds of millions of Psilons died to make it happen, but a new solid planet in the middle of the galaxy is ours. And so is improved armor, which will immediately improve our odds against the Silicoids in future engagements. That gives me a perfect chance to make everyone wait another day to find out how the next decade of the war proceeded ...
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May 22, 2017 03:19
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Ah, the tried and true "preset kill limit" strategy! Zapp would approve!
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May 22, 2017 06:11
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I'm interested in seeing just how far you feel in the population ranking thanks to that invasion.
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May 22, 2017 08:01
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While I know there's no advantage to having the numbers in ground combat, I'm still a little surprised you sent your forces piecemeal. I almost always coordinate invading transports so that they arrive together; even if the invasion fails, dropping the enemy population close to zero also cuts their production so severely that even cloning isn't likely to repopulate meaningfully before the next wave of invaders can arrive. Chipping away at an enemy population a little at a time allows them to use production to counter the losses and forces you to bomb, as with this situation. A staggered invasion also means that your closer colonies benefit from full production for a longer period of time, though if you expect a counterattack it's often better to launch early or to only send troops from more distant planets.
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May 22, 2017 15:29
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Yeah. Even if there's no RNG benefit to "big drat force" over sending piecemeal, the intervening turns allows them to mitigate--especially if they have cloning. 55-45 to start, and they had a net +20 (zortrium cancelled by hand lasers), so that's a 75-25 advantage. Ouch. Now that Zort is equalized, you're looking at 70-30 attacks in the future, or 60-40 (against) for defense. Not that you'll be able to go on the offensive any time soon with that shield deficit issue. In terms of the population rankings, it's just a temporary dip of 3-4 years so long as the eco budget can be buffed. Only time that would factor is if he ill-timed the attack recovery to happen during a council vote. Thankfully, the silicoids just lost 90M rocks as well.
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May 22, 2017 21:23
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That's true ... partially. The first was just a demo attack for LP purposes -- I wasn't expecting to win it. Second one was more sizable with 100M. Why not just bring at least 250M if not 350-400? Don't have enough population to do that, and coordinating all the transports would also give them several years in between to rebuild since it takes that long to get there from some of the planets. It is better to time them up when you can and I don't do that enough, but at the same time I don't think there was much opportunity for that here.
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May 22, 2017 22:07
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Episode I: 2487-2500 Last time, we eventually managed to overcome the Silicoids on Kronos, but discovered that we need to be in a hurry about this war since they've improved their planetary shields. It isn't over yet though, even there. They've got transports and a sizable fleet incoming ... and if they recapture the planet, they'll probably end up stealing tech from us. We have a portion of the fleet stationed at Willow, and they'll head to Kronos to help deal with this counterattack. That could leave Willow a little bare if the Darlok invade, but we'll have more problems than we know how to count if that happens anyway and there's no sign of it. We also get a small trade deal with the Alkari, and will work on building relations there again. We take a bite out of their fleet but the numbers are just too much for what we have. All of our transports are destroyed by their fleet. We'll have to keep at this and wear them down ... hopefully. The next year(2486), they are back with even more. I don't think we have a chance here ... ProTip: Don't screw up with the screen capture hotkey. I did, which is why you don't see a video here of the Silicoids retaking Kronos and stealing a tech of their own. Well that blows. We basically traded them Fusion Drives for Zortrium Armor there -- the Mass Driver really doesn't matter much. Looks like we'll need to keep us this routine for a while ... I think taking out those Makos, the missile ships, is our priority.  Or not. This is one of those virtually inexplicable things. I think the way they move their ships around is the worst aspect of the AI. They just take off from Kronos and head elsewhere because ... why?? Well let's not look a gift horse in the mouth -- time to take it back!  Sometimes war is quick and decisive ... and sometimes it's a grind. We've got the latter. A dozen years after our first attack, here's how things stand. We've pulled even in population, but fallen behind in tech. Fleet strength and production actually look a little better than before now that our worlds have recovered -- we'll have to send in more troops now of course but not a huge amount since they don't have many there either. If we can eventually take Kronos back and keep it, we can make something out of this. If not, we could be in trouble. In 2491, I thought we had more than enough to retake the planet, but it didn't work out that way. The plot stinkeneth: they have fusion rifles now. And soon their fleet returned. Round and round the mulberry bush we go here. No decisive resolution in sight. With the fleet already a little too big as it was, at least we were able to dump a lot of resources back into research.  ECM Jammer V eventually came in, and while a new computer or that Advanced scanner would be nice, the new Robotic Controls beckoned my attention. We're at 3 factories per million right now; moving up to five would be a 57% increase in productivity. Hard to imagine anything rivaling that. In 2497 we recaptured Kronos, as their fleet seemed to find more interesting things elsewhere again. Also this happened:  Another random event. It actually doesn't matter much in this case anyway, since Tyr is small enough to be a research planet. Whenever we do upgrade to better factory controls though, it will take a lot longer to finish.  We weren't far from getting it ourselves anyway, but I'm not throwing this back. We also got the first-tier Deep Space Scanner, FWIW.  The Cloaking device is nice, but not really a huge advantage. Eventually you are going to want to de-cloak to attack, and then it's not useful anymore. Good to get in a first strike, or to get bombers to a planet, but often I find it's not worth putting on. The best shields we have are Class IV; Class VII would be a big upgrade, so we'll take that. I'd like to get one of those ground combat shields eventually ...  Here's something strange, and it appears to have tipped the balance enough in our favor to let us hang onto Kronos now. Much of the Silicoid fleet is gone; things are pretty even in that regard. This is Selia, which the Silicoids have had destroyed and recolonized several times over in the past few decades. At first I didn't think it was the Darloks because those two are never at war: but I think when they destroy the colony, it could be taking them out of contact. The Silicoids have range 8 though, so that doesn't really make sense. Something is happening over there though, this is about the 4th time or more in the past half-century. but either the rocks scrapped a bunch of ships or, more likely, they were destroyed by the Darloks and their fearsome beam weapons. Either way, they don't appear to be in any position to threaten Kronos for the moment. And that's just fine by me. I'll consolidate and let them keep fighting over it. Scouting expeditions, a few destroyers each, are sent to the three reachable Silicoid systems to see about the possibility of expanding more if we can hold on here.  And what's this? The humans are being heard from, attempting to invade Altair. That's an interesting play. In 2499, the ships report back that Seidon is about a size 50-60 planet, Rotan 80, and Mu Delphi 160(!!). However, they all have planetary shields up. We're just building ours, and that will help a lot, but there's no way we can mount an attack with Sting Raids. They will now be relegated to defensive duties. For now at least, we'll have to satisfy ourselves with Kronos. It's not nothing though. In time, it could prove to be the beginning of a decisive edge. With all this chaos going on, it's time to see what High Council VI has to say.  This is quite a prelude. There are now only five empires, four rivals, in the galaxy.  We get the support of the Darloks. And note the total votes; there's been enough carnage to reduce from 21 to 16!! The galaxy hasn't been a friendly place the past quarter-century.  The lizards join us as well, as their on-again, off-again allies the Silicoids have been at war with them lately.  The Humans cast us their single vote. Granid votes for himself of course ... but he doesn't have enough to veto. With everyone else throwing their support behind us ...  Our six votes are just enough to put us over the top! 11-5, Emperor Zygot of the Psilons is deemed the new ruler of the galaxy!!
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May 24, 2017 04:38
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I think diplomatic victories were always one of my less favourite parts of MoO and MoO2, because, comparatively, they always feel like such an anticlimax. And, as seen here, it's almost never the result of some sort of major diplomatic campaign intended to win you the throne, but usually more of a surprise as your major remaining enemy makes themselves super unpopular somehow.
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May 24, 2017 04:45
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Yeah. I usually use the diplomatic victory to make Impossible+ by unifying my enemies. They don't work in concert, but they also don't fight each other and they share techs. Can make for a very interesting fight.
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May 24, 2017 04:56
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PurpleXVI posted:I think diplomatic victories were always one of my less favourite parts of MoO and MoO2, because, comparatively, they always feel like such an anticlimax. And, as seen here, it's almost never the result of some sort of major diplomatic campaign intended to win you the throne, but usually more of a surprise as your major remaining enemy makes themselves super unpopular somehow. In this case, I choose to interpret it as the Galaxy being so terrified by the potential devastation of a full-scale Psilon-Silicoid war that they hand the Galaxy to the more populous empire.  This one looked more like "hitting a tipping point" than I'm used to them looking like.
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May 24, 2017 05:02
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This was a case where I wouldn't have voted for myself and just kept playing. It's not a real victory until everyone is dead.
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May 24, 2017 05:35
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Congrats on the win!
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May 24, 2017 05:37
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Yeah, that was rather anti-climactic. Oh well, on to another setup!
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May 24, 2017 05:43
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Diplomatic victory is usually just a way of pulling the ripcord and avoiding a grinding war. That said, I will be disappointed if you do this in a larger galaxy.
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May 24, 2017 06:14
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From my limited experience, this kind of victory may be anti-climactic, but it usually means that you're in a position to pull drastically ahead. However, my favorite thing to do in these kinds of games is to get all the techs, and maximize production, which the diplomatic victory cuts needlessly short.
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May 24, 2017 06:23
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PurpleXVI posted:I think diplomatic victories were always one of my less favourite parts of MoO and MoO2, because, comparatively, they always feel like such an anticlimax. And, as seen here, it's almost never the result of some sort of major diplomatic campaign intended to win you the throne, but usually more of a surprise as your major remaining enemy makes themselves super unpopular somehow. The 4x alternative tends to be a horrid grind that gets boring long before it finishes, or hitting some kind of tech or production endgame and hammering your way to victory. A fix would either require creating more of a narrative structure to diplomacy, which is tough, or having the winning vote trigger some sort of final quest a la Endless Legend. MoO2 tried to halfway solve the problem with the Antares ending.
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May 24, 2017 14:43
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GuavaMoment posted:This was a case where I wouldn't have voted for myself and just kept playing. It's not a real victory until everyone is dead. Yeah, that's how I'd usually play. 1.) Did I feel like I'd earned a win? 2.) Was I not having fun anymore? If not, I'd abstain and keep playing. Reminds me of that old game Imperialism, where back in the day I could never get a game to run very long because it always seemed to end after the first vote for a winner.
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May 24, 2017 15:21
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PurpleXVI posted:I think diplomatic victories were always one of my less favourite parts of MoO and MoO2, because, comparatively, they always feel like such an anticlimax. And, as seen here, it's almost never the result of some sort of major diplomatic campaign intended to win you the throne, but usually more of a surprise as your major remaining enemy makes themselves super unpopular somehow. I definitely agree that this game ended quite anticlimactically. I don't think this is representative though. We'll see through the course of the other games if this ends up being more typical or not, but I've definitely seen situations where you have to decide which side of a galactic struggle to be on -- and choosing wisely can determine the fate. wedgekree posted:Congrats on the win! Thanks! Only nine more(and harder) games to go! :P GuavaMoment posted:It's not a real victory until everyone is dead. AddedSpace posted:Diplomatic victory is usually just a way of pulling the ripcord and avoiding a grinding war. I should say here that you might be disappointed then. I'll go the killing everyone route, but probably only once; at most, twice. I don't think it adds much the LP to show the grind of having dozens of planets and going around wiping out an outmatched enemy. ManxomeBromide posted:In this case, I choose to interpret it as the Galaxy being so terrified by the potential devastation of a full-scale Psilon-Silicoid war that they hand the Galaxy to the more populous empire I like the way you think here! OAquinas posted:I usually use the diplomatic victory to make Impossible+ by unifying my enemies. They don't work in concert, but they also don't fight each other and they share techs. Can make for a very interesting fight. We'll go this route eventually as well. Didn't explore the mysteries of Orion this time either. There's much to do that hasn't yet been done. Just gotten properly started, really. I should also add here that another virtue of the 'diplomatic victory', in my opinion, is that it makes you look at more than just uber-tech-fleet stuff. You have to be concerned with relations for reasons other than 'I don't want them to wipe me out'. For me personally at least, the game is better for having the mechanic.
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May 26, 2017 02:38
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Ok then. Here's your ending cinematic for the standard/election victory, complete with the least profound statement ever from GNN. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OkVYlRjHAg I find it amusing that even when you win in the Council, it still gives you the choice to say NO when asked if you accept the ruling. You can actually go to war with the rest of the Council that just voted you in as High Master. It would be incredibly stupid, but you can do it. So ends Episode I. It was an unusual game, and at a few points we weren't far from losing. In the end, it was the fairly cheesy hit-and-run Sting Raids along with the border skirmishes between the Silicoids and the Darlok, and the rocks general pattern of pissing off the rest of the galaxy with their betrayals and biologicals that was the difference. Had a nice 3-way race going on there for a while. And the Darloks played their usual role of spoiler. Only made it halfway up the tech tree, but that's par for the course on a small galaxy. Episode II Preview It's time for the Klackons next, and we'll be moving up to a medium-sized galaxy, with 48 stars. This is usually enough to see some of more advanced elements in the tech tree, but not all of them. The bad news is that we won't be the Psilons this time; the worse news is that we have a 56% chance(5 of 9) every time out of going up against them. There are some who think the Klackons actually better than the Psilons. They are wrong, but this is the only race that has an argument. You could call them 1B to the eggheads' 1A. Diplomacy: Substandard. They get on ok with the Meklars, Psilons, and Bulrathi, but tend to have issues with Alkari/Mrrshan/Sakkra/Silicoids. Nobody, aside from the peace-loving Humans, particularly likes them. Economics: This is where the Klackons shine. They have doubled worker production(1 BC instead of 0.5), which gives them a 20% production edge even on fully developed colonies early in the game. On a planet with no factories, that's a 100% boost. This gives them the biggest head start of any race; the bugs are capable of the fastest growth curve. This edge dwindles to less than 7% on a fully-developed planet with maxed-out robotics. That's not nothing, but it's definitely a strength that is best at the start and declines in importance later. Military: No bonii or penalties. Research: Solid, but with a major asterisk attached. The Klackons are the Construction experts, so they'll be able to speed up their buildup even more with cheaper factories, get better armors early, etc. However they are Poor in Propulsion, which can cause them some problems. Often the Klackons are either a very tough enemy or a pushover. If they don't have close options for colonization, they won't soon get over the hump because it's more work for them to get the crucial range-extending advancements. This is the top challenge to watch out for. If we start off having to get into research early in order to get our colony ships to habitable planets, it could go badly. If not, the galaxy could prove a land of great wealth and opportunities. Up next: Episode II begins with the Klackon Opening! Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 02:45 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 02:43
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My experiences have occasioned to a Huh... diplomatic victory, generally after the other guy genocides the weakest empire and thus gets hated.
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May 26, 2017 03:16
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"and that's the way it is..." Is a Walter Cronkite reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5tdqojA26E&t=55s Now get off my lawn you kids
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May 26, 2017 04:27
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Thotimx posted:I find it amusing that even when you win in the Council, it still gives you the choice to say NO when asked if you accept the ruling. You can actually go to war with the rest of the Council that just voted you in as High Master. It would be incredibly stupid, but you can do it. Sometimes the galaxy votes you as ruler even when you yourself vote for the other guy. It is still a lot of fun to fight the entire galaxy at once. I have a great bio-terminator strategy I like to use in that case, but I'll hold off for now hoping that one day we might see it in this LP.
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May 26, 2017 05:06
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I hate the Sakkra with a burning passion since they'd get elected all the drat time in my games, no matter what I do.
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May 26, 2017 07:16
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Episode II: Klackons, 1st Attempt, Opening Homeworld: Kholdan Color Theme: Red Emperor: Ixitixl  We've got three of the same enemies as last time: Humans, Silicoids, Sakkra. The first two there figure to most likely be the top competition. Perhaps humanity won't be locked out of things as much. Bulrathi and Mrrshan replace Darlok and Alkari this time around. That's pretty much a wash, another decent draw. No Psilons or even Meklars. It looks like we've got a shot at controlling the upper right of the galaxy. That yellow star directly above us either won't be a homeworld, or it won't matter given how far it is away from anything else. The yellow star to the right of us is the only one within our 3-parsec range, so once again there's no choice where to colonize. Looks like the closest competition is likely to come from those two yellow stars roughly in the middle, with probably multiple empires crowding together in the lower right. That's fine with me. The green and red stars directly below us are the ones I want to secure with scouts first. A couple of features to note here. One, medium galaxies are interesting, and larges to a somewhat lesser extent, because there are clumps of stars in places and then open spaces that form natural 'borders', especially early in the game. There's a real organic feel to the terrain. Secondly, note the purple splotches; those are nebulas. Shields of all kinds don't work in nebulas, and travel is limited to 1 parsec/year regardless of engine tech. It's rare that a strategically important system like +Kronos or Arietis in the Psilon game will be in a nebula, but if it happens things can get very interesting as the usual combat balance gets thrown off.  Ok a couple things to notice here. Last time our starting production was 51 BC; it's 72 now. That's a 40% boost due to the worker bonus. Time to see that savage growth curve in action! With the diplomatic weaknesses and no other real strengths, we've got to make the most of it. Also, it was pointed out that you can accelerate a bit the first few years by actually not cleaning up all of the waste at first. After some experimentation, I discovered you can gain an extra factory three years in, and a little more as Klackons, by doing this. The key is to only leave enough not cleaned up to basically keep your population at half of the maximum. After those first 2-3 years, that means you'll want it all cleaned, so it's just a bit of an extra jump-start. Every little bit helps though; normally we'd get only 4.3 factories here instead of 5, and of course it's less than 4 for other races. Kind of depressing to see ships move off slowly after having Warp 4 Fusion Drives at the end of the last game. But we're back to square one.  As hoped for with a yellow star, we've got quite a good second planet. This is much better than the 35-max Tyr we had to deal with last game. Of course it won't extend our range much either, but two good planets can form a strong core. Now it's time to draw the circle or sphere of influence. We need six more scouts to cover everything for the moment; less if that yellow star above us is uninhabited, but we can't bank on that. Kholdan will be cleaning up the rest of the remaining waste this year, and also can easily handle that many Recons. Naturally I've gotten rid of all the starting designs here per usual.  The red and white stars above and to the right of our starting colonies are both now within range, three parsecs out. So we will be able to expand further if either is livable. Here's hoping.  Middling planet at best, but our first picket is in place with no sign yet of competition. The Recons fan out, and colonist transfers to Primodius begin.  Another 'meh' planet, but more importantly an unoccupied one.  Unsurprising, as white stars are often hostile environs. It's all down to the red one now to determine our path.  Good planet here, and pointing directly to the middle of the galaxy to extend our range. It'll be a while until we can reach it though. Too early to tell, but Escalon could well become a future battleground.  2309 brings us news both good and bad. It's habitable ... but crappy. As an ultra poor planet will take forever to build up. Population incubator and research center eventually. Might be a bridge to that other nearby red star though ... worth colonizing in any case, but definitely could have been better.  So we do have this quadrant to ourselves for now ... and a potential second homeworld-quality planet! That would be very nice indeed.  That's about as crappy as it gets, and settles things. We'll get a colony ship out ASAP to Endoria, Ultra-Poor or no, and then it'll be on to research for range with nothing else available to colonize.  Our final Recon reaches it's destination, which is also hostile for good measure. It is 2312, and transfers to Primodius have completed.  This is the following year. Factory production blossoms so much beyond population growth for Klackons that Kholdan is already starting to build the colony ship with the excess not needed in industry. Could just grow more population as well, but I think it's probably better to get the ship out there a bit sooner.  2319. The colonizer was almost finished for this year, but needs a hair more work. Primodius has just reached the population midpoint; there wasn't even time to send any colonists back, what with how much the process is accelerated here. Time to see what our initial tech choices are. The big question to asks is whether we want range 4 or 5. The three planets we could get to are all towards the middle of the galaxy where we'd like to expand anyway; two including the best(Escalon) are range 4. No reason to go for the more expensive option here, but of course we may well not have a choice.  No ECM Jammer this time. The Deep Space Scanner is cheaper and definitely a more immediate benefit than the computer.  Gotta go with the Reduced Industrial Waste here. Force Fields was Class II Shields as always, and Barren landings was the only Planetology option -- no terraforming or eco restoration is not good for us. Had both choices in Propulsion though strangely enough, so Hydrogen Fuel Cells(range 4) is happily gobbled. Weapons gave three options(Hand Lasers, Hyper-V Rockets, Gatling Lasers). We snag the Hand Lasers this time to get things moving. It's the usual drill here; dump all research effort into propulsion, stop building factories on the second colony(Primodius) to research as fast as possible, etc. And then ...  It's 2322, mind. SEVEN planets already. We'll have three soon. If they don't stop soon, this could get ugly.
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May 27, 2017 01:09
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Is it safe to assume that they got planet 6 and 7 the same year?
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May 27, 2017 02:00
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Seven, what, what the poo poo
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May 27, 2017 02:05
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Thotimx posted:Emperor: Ixitixl Heck yeah! That's the name of my old WoW character. I named him after MOO2, where it was just one of several default Klackon leader names. Is it one of several here too, or the only one?
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May 27, 2017 02:12
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I'm counting... 48 stars? So the humans have grabbed something like 1/7th of the playing field already. Definitely they've got some neighbours feeling the squeeze.
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May 27, 2017 05:53
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... Wow, this is like the fastest start for an empire I have ever see in MOO
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May 27, 2017 09:32
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This made me reinstall MOO, and go check out the fan clone 'Remnants of the Precursors', which looks really nice. Adds some cool features like onscreen ship/sensor ranges and insanely huge map sizes. EDIT: Makes me sad that the official sequel is apparently so stripped down and simplified (haven't bought it though, so...). Funny that they thought the way to more sales was simplification and streamlining and then they only sell 1/5 the copies of Stellaris. They should have just flat out cloned MOO like Remnants, added quality of life features, and expanded from there. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 20:08 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 20:05
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 16:46 |
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Fintilgin posted:EDIT: Makes me sad that the official sequel is apparently so stripped down and simplified (haven't bought it though, so...). Are you talking poo poo about MOO2 because we're about to have a problem. MOO2 is not in the slightest stripped down or simplified. MOO3 through...
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May 27, 2017 22:09
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