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Aesclepia posted:I don't notice a difference in screenshots, either?   The original image is brighter and sharper. Looks like it might be a resizing issue, the 2nd one is an odd number of pixels. It's probably an issue with DOSBox and not the game, because it runs natively in 320x200. Thotimx posted:I'm sure there's a fairly simple solution to this stuff but from my perspective it seems my MOO is possessed. Could be, your bad luck on these maps is astounding! As for the saves, it might be weird, but did you try renaming each old one you want to try to SAVE1 and see if that works? I think you have to save in a slot to create the file, and then you can bring your backup in. Not sure about that, but I noticed that the name of the file in-game is saved in the MOO executable and not the save files themselves, so you might have to create a name first or something. Alternately something is different, did you try Kyrub's fan patch or anything at some point? It would be really bizarre if I can load your save on a completely different PC and a different install (I have the CD, I assume you're on Steam or GOG or something) and you can't get your own saves to work. Kanthulhu posted:Edit: We can safely say you were stuck between a rock and a hard place on that one. 
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Feb 13, 2018 16:41
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It looks like there's a saved config file recording the number of saves or something. You might try backing up your save directory again, creating a new save, then sorting files in the install directory by last date changed. I bet a file jumps out at you at that point. Try opening it in Notepad++ to see if there's something easy to edit. If it isn't text, try opening it in a hex editor (though that takes a bit more expertise to recognize). I've a lot on my plate, but I can try installing this evening and taking a look myself. Edit: Wait, an easier solution. Back up your save directory, then open the game and save seven different saves. Close the game, then drop your backed-up saves in the save directory, overwriting the new saves. If (as I suspect), the game is just tracking the number of saves, then this'll get it pointing at the saves again.
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Feb 13, 2018 18:05
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 The game gave you an unfairly hard start. No sense dragging this out, waiting for the Silicoids to win the council vote.
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Feb 13, 2018 18:11
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Wayne posted:, that's my criticism with your play this update. I voted for them every chance I could, because it's game over if they attack, and they're Xenophobic, so it's hard to raise diplo with them conventionally. Getting them Relaxed or higher is really useful for raising their trade threshold and getting them to declare war on someone else. YOU SUCK!! Um, I mean, I don't mind criticism, I just don't see this the same way. Everything you said above is true, but it's also a case of jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Survival often(I'd even say usually) demands picking the right side of the galactic war when it breaks out. At this point almost everyone favors the Silicoids, and voting for the Bulrathi is picking the opposite side. There'd need to be some real immediate tangible benefit to convince me that's a good idea. Wayne posted:I got Industrial Tech 9 for Reduced Waste 80% and Deep Space Scanner for Controlled Dead. (Or maybe the other way around?) Construction and Computers are good fields to get "just cuz" techs in because they add to your ship size and spy rolls respectively, Spy rolls I don't find useful at this point in the game. Ship size is if I intend to fight, which I think is a super long-shot right now at best. And sure getting IT9 helps get Robotics III going faster etc. but that's making the rather large assumption that you're going to get it(which I didn't know at the time). Range 5 didn't get me anything because the system I gained access to was Altair -- but I didn't know it was Altair. It could have gotten me something. Not likely ... but everything is unlikely at this point. Wayne posted:After Terraforming came in, I would've had Sssla ship population to fill your other planets, and take advantage of the "sweet spot" growth curve to get it back to full in turn. Drawbacks here: ** The pop you ship put produces nothing while in transit, while Sssla has factories for them to use. ** The destination planets don't have factories for them yet. You can build extra there but then you lower the other things those planets are doing, etc. I generally don't ship out population for growth purposes from planets that are already maxed on factories -- I think that's counterproductive in the long run. You do get the other planets full faster but it's not without cost, IMO a cost that isn't worth it. I've also never done the 'store production in a big ship' thing as that crosses the 'too-cheesy' line for me. Everyone has a different line there, but it's just not something I put in the toolbox. Definitely some good ideas here, I'll just say that I philosophically disagree that they are inherently superior; arguably so, depending on facts unknown at the time of decision-making though.
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Feb 13, 2018 23:52
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Thotimx posted:YOU SUCK!!  But seriously (and I'm at work and phone postin' is agonizing so I'll edit the rest in later if nobody else replies), I didn't mean to suggest you should do anything I mentioned, it was just how I approached it, knowing tough maps call for weird choices sometimes.  Lots of "I'd" or "I tried..."And vis a vis the fuel cell thing, I wasn't operating on foreknowledge either (it'd ruin the point of comparing notes to do that on an ongoing game), it just seemed like a better idea to get info and raise those tech levels than let my LR ships get to one more planet, that had a 50% shot at being a homeworld (and if not, next door to one), once we knew Rigel was in Alkari range pre-7 (or they'd have contact with us). I'll get to the rest in like 6 hours, just didn't want to leave any bad vibes out there!
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Feb 14, 2018 00:44
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Nah, no bad vibes to worry about. just a little good-natured feistiness.
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Feb 14, 2018 01:05
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Dirk the Average posted:I can't tell the difference. Really enjoying the LP! Thanks -- didn't want to skip over this in all the technical stuff. Narsham posted:e game is looking for settings and saves in a different place from where you think it is. An easy way to test that would be to download the save file you posted here, save it to Save1, open that save and see if it's your new game or the Sakkra one. Wayne posted:It would be really bizarre if I can load your save on a completely different PC and a different install (I have the CD, I assume you're on Steam or GOG or something) and you can't get your own saves to work. All quite sensible and logical. Best I can come up with is that there is some storage of looking for a specific number of saves, as renaming the save files to Save1.GAM worked. BTW I have the GOG version if anyone cares. But more importantly, the show will go on. Via renaming I have the most recent file(2400) and the pain of finishing this up will continue. Aesclepia posted:To be honest, forfeiting that particular game won't be the biggest deal... Others echoed this sentiment, and you're not wrong -- but this is my 'schtick'. Every LP'er has their schtick. Refusing to give up against impossible odds, showing the whole grind of the process, demonstrating both victory and defeat as opposed to the at least somewhat-more-common 'I ownz joo' meta-gaming approach ... that's my schtick. For better or worse. It'd leave a bad taste in my mouth after the much-discussed human game, the klackon defeat where I lost by revolution and basically had my bloody corpse dragged through the streets by my once-'loyal subjects', etc., if I wasn't able to lug this turd across the finish line. Ok, so that's problem #1. Problem #2; the screenshot debacle. Frankly I'm sick of messing with different ways of doing things, different methods/etc. and if I'm sick of it, those merely casually reading this have to be really sick of it. This is supposed to be about MOOing, not screen resolutions and video editing programs, archaic file structures, etc. I want to get back to the MOO, and I have another theory on what's been going wrong. Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 03:03
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Fwiw, the pics were a little bit less detailed, but I don't like this game for the graphics, I think it's fine. 
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Feb 14, 2018 03:33
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Test failed, comparison canceled. Quality was bad enough that it would have been pointless. I've come to the conclusion that the only way to get quality screenshots is to take them from the game itself, particularly with the fact that Dosbox doesn't play nice with most modern recording options. It is possible to essentially 'take a break' from the video every time I want to grab an image, but that would require a lot of editing, me remembering whenever I want to take one to interrupt things and do that, then restart the video and remember what I was talking about there, then edit it all later -- yeah, that's not worth the effort. So, Final Answer Regis barring some epiphany that I don't expect; I'll resume screenshot-only reports beginning with the next one. Anyone enjoying the videos, I'm still planning on doing some public MOO recordings once this LP is over, but doing both just appears to be too impractical. I thought about putting this up to a vote but frankly I just don't think it's reasonable to 'bait-and-switch' those who have gotten used to more than 20 pages of the screenshots and say sorry, quality just not gonna be there, deal with it. I'd only done four videos for this so it really seems the only sensible option from where I sit. Next then I'll get back to Sakkra, Episode X, cerca 2400, and proceed from there, hopefully putting all this rigamarole in the rear-view mirror before long.
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Feb 14, 2018 03:45
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Thotimx posted:Nah, no bad vibes to worry about. just a little good-natured feistiness. Ha ha, OK then! And just in case it wasn't clear, I've been learning from you, too. I'm familiar enough with MOO1 to just instinctively get in the groove (one might say "rut") of midgame "pick on the weakling" dominance and rack up enough votes doing that to cash out and win, and I flounder when it doesn't work. You've got a very conservative and methodological approach that's gotten you through maps I would've given up on, so  .So I'll start with the one thing I'll absolutely fight you IRL over, then to the rest that's a question of preferences.  Thotimx posted:I generally don't ship out population for growth purposes from planets that are already maxed on factories Normally it's a more ambiguous decision, but for the Sakkra I honestly think it's open-and-shut. Sakkra planets explode on population once they get to that 40-50% full amount, and regrow so quickly on developed worlds there's little cost for doing that. I don't have a save c. 2400, but I'm pretty sure if you dump Sssla from 130 to 70M population and send them out in 3 20M chunks when Terraforming +30 pops, you can regrow that 60 (and it'll actually be more like 40 because Sssla's regrowth is so high) in like 2 turns. And then those citizens are on your planets putting their base production to building factories faster. Since 2 of our planets are Hostile, that weighs the decision even more toward migration. Thotimx posted:At this point almost everyone favors the Silicoids, and voting for the Bulrathi is picking the opposite side. There'd need to be some real immediate tangible benefit to convince me that's a good idea. If we had contact with the Silicoids I'd agree, but we don't. We know where the Bulrathi are: close enough to roll us if we don't placate them. An AI at Neutral will probably eventually declare on you if you look weak (and we have 1/3rd their planets and the 2400s are when Impossible AIs are at their strongest, so that's going to be the case for a long time), one at Relaxed or better (like Affable, which is where I had them at 2 votes + trade agreement (don't forget to re-up once your economy maxes out, that's what's limited the trade, not theirs) + Non-Aggression) will very rarely do it. And finally, taking out the Bulrathi is a longshot, and not very profitable because we can't really invade them. We're going to want to go after someone else, and if we do, we want that southern front secure. So those were my thoughts about the vote. It seemed like the only practical way to get out of the danger zone with the Bulrathi. Thotimx posted:Spy rolls I don't find useful at this point in the game. Think so? If you have a target in your sights, why not start stealing from them? I got some clutch steals from the Alkari while I was building up a fleet to break out and go after them. With only four planets there's no way we're going to out-tech the big fish, we have to think asymmetric advancement. Thotimx posted:And sure getting IT9 helps get Robotics III going faster etc. but that's making the rather large assumption that you're going to get it(which I didn't know at the time). Ahh, OK. I'd already gotten Jammer I by first contact with the bears, so I'd already started on Robotics 3. And like with spying, construction techs will increase your ship size now as well as later, every TL helps. So all things being equal, I like grabbing techs in those fields if I can't get a better deal, because they're still giving some benefit. Thotimx posted:I've also never done the 'store production in a big ship' thing as that crosses the 'too-cheesy' line for me. Ahh, fair enough. I think it's OK in MOO1 because of the limitation on 6 slots, and that you have to scrap every ship of an old design to make a new one. So if you (say) have an armor tech coming up, you want to wait on that before you design your next generation of battleships, because they'll get more HP and have more room (due to going up Construction levels). But you also don't want to start those ships from scratch. So you start building an old model and switch to the new one on most of your planets and get a bunch going at once. I think that's pretty reasonable. I do agree with you about it in MOO2, though. Stuff like: "Emperor, that new colony ship you requested is almost done! Just one more month to finish the--" "Great, now disassemble it and use the parts to build 2 spy networks and an island that's actually a computer, R&D just finished last week." I still do it because it helps make up for the bonuses the AIs get, but yeah. Man, the fact you've been doing as well as you have been despite basically playing with 1 hand tied behind your back (not using pre-production or tech trades) is pretty impressive!
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Feb 14, 2018 07:51
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Wayne posted:I'm pretty sure if you dump Sssla from 130 to 70M population and send them out in 3 20M chunks when Terraforming +30 pops, you can regrow that 60 (and it'll actually be more like 40 because Sssla's regrowth is so high) in like 2 turns I had a save close enough to the right timeframe to test this(2 25M chunks basically, since Zoctan grows the pops almost as fast as Sssla and doesn't need the help). It took 12 years, not 2. Of course you can reduce that time by growing them via ecology spending(I didn't know the Sakkra got a massive discount on that, so I learned something in the exercise), but it seems to me superior to do that in place. In the transporting process hundreds of BC are lost. Oh, and in the test case the Alkari got faster range more quickly, then declared war, then convinced the Bulrathi to join them. So THAT would have made things worse. Spose I should be glad the RNG was so 'nice' to me in the 'canon' playthrough. Wayne posted:If you have a target in your sights, why not start stealing from them? I got some clutch steals from the Alkari while I was building up a fleet to break out and go after them. My question here is how? I've gone the espionage route multiple times in this LP with a much larger empire, decades of max espionage spending and comparable if not superior tech in this LP, and it has gotten me very little. I've had the occasional success, but not much and virtually none with inferior tech like you always have in this time-frame. I.e. take the Meklar win, in which I tried stealing from the Sakkra for at least 30-40 years while having considerably superior computer tech(I wanted their hostile landings from planetology). I got NOTHING. That would be several times more likely to happen here. Wayne posted:like with spying, construction techs will increase your ship size now as well as later, every TL helps. So all things being equal, I like grabbing techs in those fields if I can't get a better deal, because they're still giving some benefit. This I do agree with. I keep telling myself I'm going to do more early tech trades, and then seem to always find a reason not to or I forget to do it. Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 14:35
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Thotimx posted:maths Yessss, that's what it's all about, dispel fuzzy logic and "playing by feel" with cold, hard calculations! I did mean using ECO because that gets doubled too; you're saying that even with that, slow-growing got you more BC by the time your planets were maxed out? And were you factoring in that growth comes before BC gets allocated (which is why if you queue up 2 8BC scouts on your first turn, you'll get 3 depending on what race you're playing)? If so I think you taught me something else! Thotimx posted:Oh, and in the test case the Alkari got faster range more quickly, then declared war, then convinced the Bulrathi to join them. Yeah, the vicissitudes of the RNG make for very different games (that's another thing that's fun about putting up a community save file), like how the Bulrathi were the #1 race in my first run and the Silicoids were in yours. In that scenario, you might've been able to get the Bulrathi to declare war on their allies first, but yeah, an early DOW is game over on some maps. That's why I was so concerned about buddying up to the bears. Thotimx posted:I've gone the espionage route multiple times in this LP with a much larger empire, ... I got NOTHING. There are a couple factors that help out. Focusing on computers in backfill research and tech trades helps immensely. In this case, once I decided that Alkari were the victims, I traded Bio Toxin Antidote for a very solid Battle Computer (since I'd need it to beat their evasion anyway) from one of the AIs, and that plus stuff like the Scanner trade and Robotics 3 were enough to get reliable steals from the Alkari (I got 3 while building up my fleet), since they had pretty low Computers. Also, it seems counterintuitive, but try to set your spending such that you get a new spy network every year (if you're at 0 spies, since each one after the first costs more; that makes sure you get to roll every year), but not 2 or more. That's because one of the results of a spy getting caught is confessing and losing your other spies, so they might not get to roll if that happens to your first spy. I need to do maths myself on that one (like maybe take a 50 turn block and compare my way with max spies and see how it works).
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Feb 14, 2018 16:12
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Yeah. With Spying, with how the costs are set up and with the possible results from the rolls, unless you massively outtech them in Computers the 2/yr level is more or less optimal. Even the minimal sliver can still net you espionage if it's at 1/yr. But going full bore on spy offense is insanely expensive and can actually backfire. Defense, of course, is always positive--albeit also expensive.
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Feb 14, 2018 17:15
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Wayne posted:I did mean using ECO because that gets doubled too; you're saying that even with that, slow-growing got you more BC by the time your planets were maxed out? And were you factoring in that growth comes before BC gets allocated (which is why if you queue up 2 8BC scouts on your first turn, you'll get 3 depending on what race you're playing)? If so I think you taught me something else! Nope, not saying that. Upon further review it seems clear that slow-growing was a mistake. I was saying that without ECO investment it takes over a decade to re-max the homeworld, and if I was going to do eco investment it seems(to me) clearly best to do it on site. Meaning, grow the extra people on Hyades and Phyco, instead of sending them from Sssla. I Wayne posted:In this case, once I decided that Alkari were the victims, I traded Bio Toxin Antidote for a very solid Battle Computer (since I'd need it to beat their evasion anyway) from one of the AIs, and that plus stuff like the Scanner trade and Robotics 3 were enough to get reliable steals from the Alkari (I got 3 while building up my fleet), since they had pretty low Computers. Also, it seems counterintuitive, but try to set your spending such that you get a new spy network every year (if you're at 0 spies, since each one after the first costs more; that makes sure you get to roll every year), but not 2 or more. That's because one of the results of a spy getting caught is confessing and losing your other spies, so they might not get to roll if that happens to your first spy. All I can say is that I've tried a sliver, I've tried 20% of the max bar, I've tried the full bar, all for extended period. I have never once seen a game where I had reliable tech-stealing like you're describing, regardless of tech comparison or anything else. There's got to be something else going on. I'm glad you were able to do it and that it's more viable than it has been in my experience, but everything I've seen tells me I might as well light my treasury on fire unless I have superior Comp tech(and often, even if I do). I'd come to the conclusion that on Impossible it was pretty much a Darlok-only possibility. Literally every single time I've tried it in this kind of deficit situation(Klackon loss for example) it's been a collosal failure. Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 23:55
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Disclaimer: I've never actually played MOO, just been watching your LP and finding it interesting. I ended up finding a wiki with a write-up of the espionage system, although I can't vouch for the accuracy. At least per their write up, success/failure and loot are separate rolls. It seems that "success" is a function of your computer level vs. the target computer level, but loot is only governed by your computer level to the extent that you're unlikely to loot anything until endgame computer techs. See if anything in here matches up to your experience/is helpful. https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Master_of_Orion/Spying
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Feb 15, 2018 00:55
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The fact is, its an RNG roll so it's going to be highly variable regardless. Plus you have to be at least in the ballpark of the target computer-tech wise to have a plausible chance at a success. That said, it's been a key benefit to me innumerable times for a minor investment. Early game/tiny empires have severe issues getting those initial costs satisfied, but once you're able to get 1-2 spy networks per turn for a tiny bump it can be left alone. Still, it's not going to make/break/or save this particular game, I think...
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Feb 15, 2018 06:32
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PharmerBoy posted:I ended up finding a wiki with a write-up of the espionage system, although I can't vouch for the accuracy. The numbers are right (with the exception that the manual says that the 2nd roll to determine if you actually get anything is based on the difference on Computer TL, not your level straight-up), but I disagree with the conclusions. Namely: 1. A tech you steal now is always better than stealing the same tech later. Getting a fuel cell upgrade means a lot more in 2375 than 2475 (when you probably had to get some just to go up a tier in Propulsion at some point). 2. Investing BC to get a tech is just like investing BC into research, except that sometimes you'll get lucky and come out way ahead on your investment, and sometimes you'll get Thot luck and come out behind. I've had both happen. If you like gambling in video games, spying in MOO1 is a lot like that. 3. If you succeed, the roll to determine what TL you get is a simple 1..max roll. Getting the top tier tech out of 10 levels is much more likely than getting it out of 40. (Though you have to remember that if their TL is 40 their highest tech is probably level 28 or something, but still.) You'll get an AI's best techs more often stealing early. 4. You can steal techs you can't research, whether it's because they're a tier (or more!) higher than your best, or they're not on your list at all. Like the guide said, sometimes an AI just won't trade something you want, and you might not want to invade them to take it. In that scenario you have to try stealing it. 4a. Relatedly, you can skip entire levels of techs you either don't want, or would be rendered redundant (stealing Terraforming +60 if you would've had to take +40 to advance a tier, say). In my current run on this game, I stole a Weapons tech that was three tiers higher than what I had. So when I finished the current project, I had like 15 options of what to take next. And even if you don't pick something that high because it'd be too expensive for your economy at the time, it'll still let you see what's in your tree and not. 5. On Impossible, AIs tech more quickly than you if your empires are similar size, and are more willing to trade, filling out their tech trees and increasing their TLs. Earlier on, the odds that any given Computers breakthrough will put you at a higher TL than your target is better. Those are all reasons to start spying early, even if it's true that you don't get as much bang for your buck on each spy network until your Computer TLs are higher. After all that, let's take a concrete example (assuming the Wiki's info is right). In my first run, the Bulrathi had Rigel and there was no way out but through them, so I started spying on them, figuring I'd either use their tech to fight them or lose now instead of losing later. I just had spies hide until Robotics 3 came in, which put my TL just above theirs (I had 1 more tech than them thanks to trading for Deep Space Scanner and having a higher best tech). So I probably had a 52% chance of succeeding (you don't know your spy will get caught until after you've picked the tech, of course), and a 24% chance of actually getting something (85 - 9 failure chance). That's about a 12% chance of success each turn, and I got 4 steals over the ~30-40 turns it took them to catch me (after the 3rd hit), declare war, and bomb Phyco, which is when I gave up. Given that they were teching faster and probably increased security when war was declared, that sounds about right. Now, that doesn't help the overarching argument in that I lost that game  , but if you only spy on someone you're willing to risk war with, well then, game on!In fact, I think I might start a game and just log all my spy success (and take screencaps so Thot believes me ) and see if it's about what the Wiki suggests. Got some time now that the Civ4 thread is quiet....
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Feb 15, 2018 07:59
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So, with all this spy chat, Darloks are next?
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Feb 15, 2018 11:35
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Next is finding a decent Sakkra galaxy -- since I'm a jerk, I'm not going to announce who the next race is, even though I've already decided. The odds would say the Darlok are one of four races left after that, so the probably not in their favor.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:29
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Thotimx posted:Next is finding a decent Sakkra galaxy -- since I'm a jerk, I'm not going to announce who the next race is, even though I've already decided. The odds would say the Darlok are one of four races left after that, so the probably not in their favor. Looking forward to the space-kitties getting their shot for becoming benevolent galactic overlords (Whenever far point in the future that might be.)
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Feb 15, 2018 16:49
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I will say that there will be a vote(when I start the first attempt at the next race after the Sakkra). Results of that vote will determine what order the final three races, which are relatively interchangeable in my view, will be done in. So anyone who has a particular horse in that race, bee in their bonnet etc. or whatever about a particular species can hold forth at that time. Note: all votes prior to the actual poll will be disregarded. So don't bother .
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Feb 15, 2018 23:13
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Thotimx posted:I will say that there will be a vote(when I start the first attempt at the next race after the Sakkra). Results of that vote will determine what order the final three races, which are relatively interchangeable in my view, will be done in. So anyone who has a particular horse in that race, bee in their bonnet etc. or whatever about a particular species can hold forth at that time. filing a motion to vote on the motion to ignore the vote ignoring the vote
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Feb 16, 2018 16:14
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Episode X: 2400-2425 Ok, time to get back at it. Assuming there is no supernatural intervention, what we're really talking about here is whether or not I make it through another century. The record for quickest loss was 75 years(Episode II, first Klackon game). So at least I've already surpassed that.  Hey look -- we still suck. Go figure. Though we can see the impact of Wayne's point about us having good early economic techs. About a third the planets and half the tech, yet we are doing better than that in production. That's unusual for this point in the game. It's not good enough, but things could be worse.  Here's what we know about our tolerators the bears. I'm hoping the re-upped trade deal of 375 BC we just signed will help keep them pacified. Good news is they don't have Robotics III yet. Bad news is pretty much everything else. No planetary shields yet so we could attack their planets -- but they'd just counterattack and we could do nothing really about that. Then their ground troops would crush us and that'd be that. The alliance with the Alkari sort of shoots that whole 'attack at Rigel' plan so long as it's in effect. As does, you know, the fact that we can't get there yet.  We are about to get better range though, and a new toy for the fleet.  2403. We sign a 225-BC trade deal with Farseer, who leads an empire of Aggressive Expansionists. In other words, they'll take our territory if they think they can. And they can. I have a feeling a bribe is in order. Personal Deflector Shield is accepted as 'reparations' for our 'crimes against the Alkari Empire'. That we have just met. What crimes?!?  This makes us look a little better. I also like the fact that the Bulrathi-Alkari alliance is dead. For the moment.  Just Altair and Rigel. There are indeed a lot of factors which would point us in the direction of attacking the Alkari, or at the very least putting ourselves in position to do so. I want to see what technology they have first though -- and besides which, we do not have the range to reach them yet. A weak race(in the long term at least it seems) who is siding with the Silicoids(probable victors) and no current allies? That's definitely a prospect worth investigating.  The situation is desperate enough certainly to at least try out the advice given in the thread by those who don't have my 'espionage curse'. Here, I've set spy spending to the amount(2% of imperial production) required to get one spy each year into the Alkari. Every year that I have at least one active spy I'll do espionage. Every year that I don't, I'll hide to attempt to get one in. The spending here will also be adjusted annually to keep at the 1-spy-per-year goal. We'll see if I can steal something roughly once a decade -- or if I merely flail miserably in abject failure, per usual in espionage efforts. Of course, accompanying this is the need to start gradually ramping up missile base production. If they catch us, I'd like to have some kind of chance of fending off their attacks should they strike first. Soon the Alkari form an alliance with the Silicoids. Awesome. I decide to keep on though, with my only small comfort being that we haven't met the rocks yet. This is really risky -- but do we really have anything to risk? 2406: Dotomite Crystals are in; Energy Pulsar the only option. Investment returns to the usual planetology-heavy focus.  A couple shield advances but that's it. No engines, no anti-ship weapons, no computing improvements. We aren't going to get it to look any better. Ok, so what's the best way to handle their fleets? We've got a weapon still in the prototype phase, so I want to wait for that. I realize that we've really got to choose between the typical missile-base buildup and getting a fleet going. Can't do both as small as we are. The approach of the LP thread here makes the decision between the two; I'll take the rare(for me) aggressive tack. Base construction is halted again, to get the research done.  Against the odds, Bio-Toxin Antidote comes first. I want Controlled Toxic here next, just in case we find anything hostile to attack/colonize. Failing that, Advanced Eco would be nexst.  LOL. First possible turn, 4% chance. Weapons are up to over a third each year on the probability, and I get the Ion Cannon as well. Now we're in business. And by the way, several years into the spying adventure, I haven't even been able to turn on espionage. The spy is getting caught either before or just after insertion every single turn. Several in a row. This, uh, isn't going well. New research selections are Zortrium Armor(to move things forward) and Merculite Missiles(in case things go south). Next step is to see if I can trade for anything combat-related with the Bulrathi.  All depends on what type of war I want to wage here really. I go with the Fusion Beam, which I think will give us cheaper weapons to pack on. Bio-Toxin Antidote is the only thing they are interested in, so it's just a one-shot deal. The Alkari have nothing we want, but I do finally have a spy in place to start trying and steal from them anyway. It's 2410, and I need to see what kind of ships I can make to threaten them. With their lack of anti-ship weapons, I think the main concern is their shielding(Class III). They do also have an ECM upgrade. I don't think this is a case for my usual stand-by, the hit-and-run missile tactics. Our Hyper-V Rockets won't be able to get through their missile-base shields, wimpy though they are.  Attempting to make use of what I have(namely, the inertial stabilizer), I opt for Destroyer size here. The Spirit has a Mk I Battle Computer(only one we have) and it'll miss them a lot but fusion beams are far better than anything the Alkari possess. When it hits, it'll hurt. Meanwhile, the Nuc Bomber has ECM Jammer I, to make it a little harder to take out with missiles. At least right now, we'd be a lot faster than any Alkari ship. The decision is then made. It's Rigel or Bust. A minimal amount will be left in research, but the main goal is build up a respectably-sized fleet(as defined by a combination of our maintenance budget and their comparative strength on the status screen) and then go pay them a visit.  The next year. This I do not understand. But I'm not complaining. Much. We acquire Hand Lasers.  After several years of buildup and no more notable news, a Recon reaches our first Silicoid system. Looks like they just colonized it(Rana). Ahh well.  And then the cyborgs. This is Nordia fully developed. Meklon we also find, much closer to the galactic core. So we're basically cut off from peaceful expansion. As anticipated. At this point(2418), our fleet is almost as large as the Alkari's. They also have developed Duralloy Armor. And Merculite Missiles. That's really going to suck. A Recon is on it's way to report the situation on Rigel. Much will depend on what it finds.  20 missile bases, each with a trio of Merculite launchers, can do 600 damage per turn. That's not counting the ships of course, but enough Spirits could probably take them down. Probably. Still, that's enough firepower to probably take out our whole fleet in 3-4 salvos. I've got no choice but to basically max out if I still want to make a go of this. If they build up much more, it's going to be impossible.   Sensible. Just as I'm preparing to set off on what will likely be a doomed invasion, the Council votes again. Same nominees. ** Silicoids(16 of 54) ** Alkari(2) -- Smurch. Interesting. ** Bulrathi(16) -- Two powers of this size at least ensures the game goes on a while. ** Mrrshan(10) -- Granid. ** Meklar(6) -- Granid. We abstain again with our four. Granid leads 32-18, four votes shy of the victory.
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Feb 17, 2018 15:59
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Slooper posted:filing a motion to vote on the motion to ignore the vote ignoring the vote Umm, what? Are you channeling Jack Sparrow now?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Oj8N0MEdpY
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Feb 17, 2018 16:02
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Time to drown the Alkari in tadpoles.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:34
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Do or die time. 
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Feb 17, 2018 18:46
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This isn't looking good.
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Feb 17, 2018 19:32
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PurpleXVI posted:Time to drown the Alkari in tadpoles. While I'd like to agree, I'm pretty sure that fleet (and especially the missile bases if they contribute to destroying incoming transports) will wreck havoc on any ground invasion fleet.
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Feb 17, 2018 21:32
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missile bases do shoot down incoming transports, but at the current tech level nuclear bombs should be effective against them. even if they are not, the fusion bombs the birds have DEFINITELY will be and thot will definitely end up stealing that if he gets another stab at their weapons labs.
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Feb 17, 2018 21:39
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Wheeee, invasion time! :popcorn:
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Feb 18, 2018 21:18
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Thotimx posted:The situation is desperate enough certainly to at least try out the advice given in the thread by those who don't have my 'espionage curse'. All I'm saying is I started that spy-focused game I mentioned, and the next day I came down with the flu. So that's where I've been the last couple days!Brief writeup and photo evidence here, conclusions below.  So keeping in mind this is just 1 game (and a rather atypical one at that, with the Darloks in play and 2 of the 5 races basically not), I think we can draw the following conclusions: 1) You're probably getting steals and just not realizing it. The odds of an infiltration going through actually aren't bad, but until you start getting Computer TLs, you probably just don't roll high enough to get anything you don't have. This is probably because there aren't a ton of techs in the first 2 tiers, and you're guaranteed to have at least 1 of them (unless you haven't researched it yet, of course). Just like how if you ESC out of the steal screen, you won't get caught even if that's what you rolled in phase 1; nothing bad happens if you don't get to take anything. 2) The biggest factor seems to be if the AI is running Security, and that's out of your hands, which is frustrating. And while AIs will focus on Security when they're at war, it seems like AIs have to drop spending when they start getting crunched financially, and that's quite likely in wartime. (The turn I got that Mrrshan steal, Fierias was down to 10 pop and drowning in pollution because the Mrrshan couldn't afford to keep ECO up.) It does seem like if you want to spend your spy points strategically, targeting AIs shortly after a war breaks out (when their buildup is complete and maintenance is highest) or when their expenditures are high (they recently got a Shield tech, say?) seems best, that's when I got those Darlok hits. 3) Also out of your hands, the higher the AIs' Computer TLs are, the harder your job is stealing from them. The more peaceful the AIs are (and thus the more they tech and trade), the presence or absence of Darloks (Good at Computers) or Psilons... those are huge and there's nothing you can do about it. 4) Getting a huge advantage in Computers isn't necessary to get steals, but it drastically increases the chance of getting frames, which lets you keep spying and sows some discord among your rivals. 5) Pharmer seems to be right that the roll to determine what you get is your unmodified Computer TL. This means that you'll want to keep up in Computers as the techs you're eyeing go up in level (which you probably assumed anyway). 6) It's possible to diplo your way out of getting busted, as long as you were obsequious enough before and are willing to be even more so afterward. I only got caught once when it mattered, and the Silicoids didn't declare on me until the Humans allied with them and brought them in much later (after it was far too late). This isn't guaranteed, and I'd be careful relying on it against a Ruthless or Xenophobic race; but it can definitely mitigate the risk. Thotimx posted:20 missile bases, each with a trio of Merculite launchers, can do 600 damage per turn. That's not counting the ships of course, but enough Spirits could probably take them down. Probably. Still, that's enough firepower to probably take out our whole fleet in 3-4 salvos. I've got no choice but to basically max out if I still want to make a go of this. If they build up much more, it's going to be impossible. Don't forget to gauge their attack level against your bombers' missile defense; on one hand, you have Inertial Stabilizer; on the other, no engines.... Consider missile boats, too. If you can get Hyper-X or Merculites yourself, that's a lot of damage as long as they don't have a planetary shield, and it's safer than trying to use 2-speed bombers. Good luck! You definitely seem to have drawn a shorter straw than me, nobody even having Nuclear Engines to steal is pretty rough.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:27
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Wayne posted:Consider missile boats, too. If you can get Hyper-X or Merculites yourself, Yeah, I basically didn't have time to wait for this. I prefer to use missile boats in the early game(I think I did that with Silicoids or Psilons, can't remember which) but I didn't want to get Hyper-X after I just got Hyper-V(and ignore the other weapon paths). Wayne posted:You're probably getting steals and just not realizing it. The odds of an infiltration going through actually aren't bad, but until you start getting Computer TLs, you probably just don't roll high enough to get anything you don't have Most of the time, even with the low-tech Alkari, I didn't even have a spy network up(spending set to reach 1/year) so there was no chance of actually succeeding. They are catching almost all(80% or more) of my spies during the infiltration process. Once I got in, I got a hit the first year ... and then never did again. I like the advice, and I hate you for that start(two artifact planets!?! I believe that's more than I've gotten to in this entire LP. I think I'm on one. In ten games). And good job getting the 'Thotimx special' :P. In all seriousness though, I think when it comes to spying there are two conclusions; ** The RNG likes you more ** You're more willing to risk it; early wars kill the growth the curve so I tend to take the safe approach, though of course in games like the current one you can forget about it since as you've said it's not going to do any good. Wayne posted:6) It's possible to diplo your way out of getting busted Not always. I've seen times when one bad things means war and I'm unable to get peace for the rest of the game. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Galaga Guardian posted:Do or die time. Probably more like die now or die later time . Aesclepia posted:Wheeee, invasion time! :popcorn: Lets!!
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Feb 20, 2018 22:45
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Episode X: 2425-2450 Doing ok relative to the Alkari, but they just had another one of those wonderful 'fleet boosts'. I hope it didn't include beefing up their base defenses. Bulrathi production is also much higher now. I expect they and the Silicoids will continue increasing their advantadge. The Alkari are now allied with the Meklar. We'll see how long that lasts.  Soon I'll need to send in the 'tadpoles', ready or not. We're most of the way to the biggest fleet I can usefully build. There's little point in checking research, as I'm not doing much of that.  Trax is serving as the staging point. A few more ships arrive here every year. I'm throwing in the Cyclops as cannon fodder if nothing else, and have started building a second, identical bomber design. I'm hoping that gives them more survivability by adding another target for the Alkari bases to shoot at. I expect them to prioritize the bombers. Additionally, advances have allowed me to nearly double their payload(from 6 to 10 bombs each).  2427. I didn't expect an empire of their size to not be able to handle this.  The next year. This is turning into a bad joke. Let's say I DO capture Rigel. That'll give me five. And ... then what? I surmise I will then do nothing, because I will be able to do nothing. But first things first. It's 2428, and I'm now spending 25% on the fleet. It's go time. More than 200 ships depart Trax on a five-year journey to Rigel. I will continue to build, as I may wish to re-evaluate and strike again should this fail. I think the chances of success are pretty low given the firepower of the Alkari bases. The spy networks will focus on sabotage efforts in an attempt to take some of the bases out. Most of the time though they are just getting caught before they can get set up.  Well what do you know. The year before the fleet gets there we get a success. Without 'AI Magic' they'd never have many bases with that few factories -- but this is a very old report. We blow up three missile bases. That could well prove significant. Meanwhile, the diplomatic report indicates the Alkari are allied with Silicoid and Meklar. I've got to break those up if I can. Being the bastard that I am, I request an audience with Farseer with the invasion fleet bearing down on him unannounced, and ask him to break those deals. After buttering him up with Improved Industrial Tech 8, of course. They request Inertial Stabilizer tech in order to do that. Nope. If we fail here, they'll kick our behinds with that.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS4ZcCkiPeI Well, that didn't go exactly as planned. The bombers didn't do much, but the Spirits were quite effective. So, I stop building bombers since their only purpose is to attack planets anyway. The immediate Alkari response is only to sign an alliance with the Bulrathi. They are gathering friends, and if we invade Rigel the whole galaxy may descend upon us. If we don't, we are stuck in the corner. Screw it, let's go out in a blaze of glory. For the invasion, the Alkari have ground tech advantadge(armor) over us as well as the defensive edge. I send 125M, half the population of both Sssla and Zoctan. It'll take several years to arrive but I expect that to do the trick. It'd better. The remainder of our Spirits go in to fortify Rigel against any counter-attack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9gAEEtx1EI The next year the Alkari return, and put up a better fight. It's not a good enough one though. The Cyclops has now been retired -- forcefully. We definitely want to keep the Spirits flowing, having lost now about half of what we had. The Alkari declare war, to the surprise of nobody. I can only hope against hope that the Bears lose interest in that alliance before joining them. The next year, Silicoid and Bulrathi alliances are broken!!! Meklar remain but that's a huge, unexpected break. The Alkari continue to fight us every year, and we continue to get the better of them. Meanwhile I'm rebuilding population from the transports that were sent out. If I get the chance, I'll steal their armor to increase our odds of success. A new destroyer is commissioned, the Valkyrie. It adds an Class I Shield to the Spirit specs. Not a lot, but it's what the available space allows and should help our exchange rate a bit.  The rocks show up at Trax, one of the near Radiated worlds. It's time to kiss some serious granite.  This one must have happened through range, or maybe they are Silicoid allies. Friendly bunch. It's 2437, and our transports are three and four years out from Rigel, so we're right in the middle of some stuff. I need to take careful stock of the situation.  So basically this war between the galaxy's two worst empires is a fight to see who occupies the cellar. I'm trying to ensure we stay ahead of the Alkari and have a presence that will allow us to take advantadge of any bigger conflicts that erupt. That's pretty much it. Assuming that we win, we'll still be well behind the Meklar and the Silicoids are obviously about to become stupid-powerful. I can only hope they'll find us not big enough to be a threat, or somesuch.  Pretty safe to assume the Mrrshan, only race I haven't met, is in the upper-right. Silicoids are Aggressive Expansionists, and have renewed their Alkari alliance so they could declare war on us at any moment. Meklar are Xenophobic Industrialists with no alliances. So the rocks are the ones that concern us. And are probably about to wipe us from the galaxy. Let the groveling commence!! We sign a 375-BC deal with the Silicoids, throw three low-level techs as them, and suggest they really should toss the birdbrains. They want ...  This is most of our reserve, but so what? Seriouly, you're pushing 30 planets, you have a freaking third of the galaxy, and you want a few hundred credits. Umm, sure? The combination of that and our 'generous gift of ECM Jammer I technology' convinces them. Whoever said 'like a rock, only dumber' never met a Silicoid. There's nothing dumber than a rock. But we'll take it. Imminent threat dealt with. TX-1138 of the Meklars signs a 375BC trade deal and is not willing to offer any technology in trade that we are particularly interested in. We are now fully engaged in the galactic community. I feel a bit like Tom Hanks' character in Road to Perdition when he offers his services to Frank Nitti in exchange for them turning a blind eye to the revenge he intends to carry out. Just take our small contributions to your empires gents. Pay no attention to the bird behind the curtain. Our petty squabbles are none of your concern, titans of the galaxy ... Trade deficit has gone negative again, temporarily. Spending is getting split three ways: bases(we need to be ready if anyone attacks now), research, and more Valkyries to send on to Rigel to maintain our hold there. This basically means we are getting a totally inadequate investment in all three areas, but we're kind of stuck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyhstqsy1f8 The first wave; Sssla's troops will finish it off. I forgot that we had Battle Suits. That basically evened it up; a slight 64-60 edge in casualties for us. We're about to take the system, and I decide to get out of shipbuilding for now. It seems clear we're going to be able to fend off the Alkari with what we have, though I'll have to monitor any attrition closely. Once I'm happy with the bases it has, I'll have Phyco build more or throw some money into the reserve.  We lost 9M more the next year and take Rigel. I can't believe this worked without starting a war with anyone else. It shouldn't have worked. I almost feel like apologizing for it. The max population here is 75 so we're in great position there. Lots of factories captured, and let's see what toys we get.  Dang our troopers are ugly. We're researching Zortrium but this will still help in the interim and with the whole miniaturization drive. Also, Class III Deflectors(we are still at II) and ECM Jammer II(we're at I). Nice.  The Alkari had no terraforming tech, so we can increase Rigel up to 105M. It's going to be a solid producer for us. That's job #1. Job #2 is refitting and maxing out the factories, then getting defenses in place. Some of those Alkari fleets are incoming, some are retreating. They find themselves without friends right now though and none of them are sizable enough to trouble us.  We get one of these with the Silicoids as well. A campaign of peace and friendship is beginning. The Meklar then came in with an offer. Messed up taking the screenshot on this but it was absolutely hilarious. Something to the affect of 'The Meklar are awed by the wonders of Deuterium Fuel Cells(Range 5) tech? What should we give you in exchange for it?' They were only willing to offer Terraforming +10M which is useless to us ... but seriously? Almost a century and a half in and you are awed by the wonders of a first-tier tech? When your research is almost twice ours?? Okey-dokey. 2445: alliance signed by the Meklar and Alkari. Complicating this situation is the fact that if there's anyone else I'm going to be able to attack, it's the Meklar. Preferably I'd like peace with the birds now, since I can't afford to risk the genocide penalty I'd get from taking out Altair. I lose nothing really by bribing the crap out of them I suppose. After offering cash and three techs ...  I really don't want to give them this, but I don't think they can put it to use against me right now. I accept. Peace with them means peace with the Meklar, and I'm definitely not ready to fight them. They refuse a trade deal, but I'm hopeful that will change. Ok, decision time. I'm ending this update a little bit early so I can get some input here. Normally I don't do this of course but ... I don't really have a good answer here and I expect to lose anyway, so you can all choose which way I fail. Sound like fun?? No?? DO ITANYWAY!! If you want. First up, the latest reports as of 2446.  The reason the Meklar are on my radar is that they are the best among bad options. Bulrathi and Silicoids are so big they'll just overwhelm us. The Meklar are about the same size, but combine the AI bonuses with their production and they are killing us still, much more advanced.  We've got at least decent relations with everyone. It's the time where alliances come and go like the wind, but right now Alkari-Meklar is the only one. In general, Silicoid-Meklar-Mrrshan lining up against the Bulrathi has been the theme. War has not broken out but it can't be far away.  It's not all bad news, but most of it is. The planetary shields mean we'd need better bombs to have any chance at cracking their defenses. Missile defenses aren't great; our weaponry is basically on par with theirs. But with their production and battle computers, their fleets would rip our to shreds. They've probably got big ones with Automated Repair on them; that's a very Meklar thing. It is good that they haven't improved their robotics yet but they are still crushing us when it comes to production, and that Repulsor Beam would also force us to do hit-and-run or mount Heavy Fusion Beams. With their engines(and they have the inertial stabilizer) added in, I don't see how we would have much chance in a war with them.  The current map shows that with Rigel we can reach about a quarter of the galaxy. I've got a few recons out there but it's pretty much all claimed. Viable Options The term viable is a very loose one here. I see two choices, both of which carry a very low probability of success. ** Attack the Meklar. I'd finagle whatever tech trades I could to increase our capabilities, and once I can get a fleet going that can crack their Planetary Shields, probably build some cruisers to limit the effectiveness of their Scatter Packs and find a weakish target to go after. This is probably better named 'Suicide-by-Robot'. ** Spoils of War. My default tactic when behind. Get alliances with the strong races(esp. Silicoid) and prepare to try to profit when war breaks out. If we can seize a few systems in this way we might get back in it. Problems are generally how far behind we are in tech in keeping them, the fact that Meklar/Bulrathi are Xenophobic and therefore alliances with them are unlikely, and the fact that we will definitely need faster engines than we're stuck with to have any chance of this working. The endgame would be to take Orion and use that to mitigate the huge Silicoid advantage in terms of size -- but I have no idea where it is and it appears to be at least partway across the galaxy. In either case I'm going to try to swing as many tech trades as I can, but what ones I go for may well change.
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Feb 20, 2018 23:00
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jesus, i don't think i've ever seen a game where the two dominant powers are quite so dominant. literally nobody but the bulrathi and the silicoids are even remotely relevant.
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Feb 20, 2018 23:15
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Isn't there a second Alkari system at the extreme lower right corner of the galaxy, making it possible to take Altair without eating the genocide penalty? Might be worth doing your best to break the Meklar/Alkari alliance and grabbing Altair asap if so.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:39
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Wow, good catch! I didn't see that. The vote is still relevant in terms of what to do after that, but that's definitely the best plan for the immediate future. Assuming taking Altair goes well, I'll pretty much be right back where I am now(though hopefully with a few more stolen advances and of course another high-quality world).
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Feb 21, 2018 01:15
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Thotimx posted:** The RNG likes you more Both probably true.  And I just meant you can "possibly" recover from getting caught in that it's not a guaranteed DOW so you shouldn't try to patch things up; but sometimes you're right that there's nothing you can do to recover before they roll to declare on you. It's probably still worth a try, depending on where your relationship was before that and how bad the war will be.Anyway, nice job on Rigel!  That played out pretty similarly to my run, with the alliances popping up and going away as the fleet moved in. The difference is that the Alkari were a little more ahead and had 4 planets in that core instead of just the 2, so I was in a stronger position after taking them. And yeah, it does seem like the AI prioritizes ships with limited ordnance like missiles and bombs, so having multiple stacks of those can help any 1 bomber group to get in. The tradeoff being, of course, you can only have 6 stacks period, and the more clone groups you have, the more obnoxious it is to scrap one to upgrade. And you'll probably have to scrap all of them once you get an engine upgrade, unless you want them slowing down your task force.I'd definitely try for Altair and then see what your tech choices look like. If you can get class 6 shields and Fusion Bombs, you can make ships immune to the Meklar bases, and since they already have 2 missile techs (I assume the Hyper-Vs were a gift from you, though?) they're not guaranteed to have any more. Something to think about for your next buildup. It looks like you haven't traded around Bio Toxin Antidote to your new friends either, maybe see what you can get for that and stuff like Cloning once you get it? You're at peace with most of the powers, if you can get some tech brokering going on that might get you caught up enough to do some damage.
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Feb 21, 2018 02:59
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I’d attack the Meklar. But as you point out, even the best option is more likely to lose than win. Do you have any indication how powerful the cats are? Could a bear cat alliance challenge the rocks? That’s the only real alternative I see: get everybody at war with the Siliciods and pick off some of their planets with help from your allies.
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Feb 21, 2018 04:58
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I'd go for a spoils of war approach.
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Feb 21, 2018 05:40
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Episode X: 2446-2475 Pursuant to discussions in the thread, the clear plan here is to hit Altair, and the sooner the better so they don't have the time to build ships ith that Inertial Stabilizer. I did in fact manage a couple of tech trades: the Meklar gave up Nuclear Engines, which will help us get ships in place faster and of course aid defensive capabilities. The Silicoids were willing to part with either Graviton Beams or Battle Computer MK III. I chose the latter; Graviton is good against small ships but I'll take the accuracy and initiative. However, they wanted Robotics III for it. I don't feel like making the strongest empire in the galaxy stronger -- too high a price IMO. But still, the engines will help. They meant I couldn't fit the new ECM Jammer on, still stuck at level I ... but getting there twice as fast and being 50% faster when we arrive(combat speed of 3 now) is well worth it. Not to mention the improved defense. The new ship is called the Spectre. So we once again went on war footing. All of the previously-built ships that remained would be used, plus whatever I can assemble reasonably quickly. Several Spectres were built each year and sent on to the still-industrializing Rigel. There was still the matter of the Meklar alliance but that would likely go away on its own at some point. If it did, I would try to time the attack for that time.  We gave sabotage another shot but our spy was caught before he could do anything. Nothing else much happened the next few years, so it was time to vote again. If we all united against the Silicoids we could stop them, but I think this is the last time that is the case. ** Alkari(2) -- Granid. Yep, not gonna happen. ** Bulrathi(18) -- 62% of the galaxy is a bear or a rock. ** Mrrshan(9) -- Granid ** Meklar(7) -- Granid We are up to five votes. With Granid leading things 38-18, I would otherwhise no longer find abstaining to be an automatic choice. Bulrathi relations are good(Relaxed), and I might survive voting for the rocks. I want to curry their favor and don't have any more options for doing so right now. A Silicoid alliance would be very beneficial. But of course, not beneficial enough for me to put them over the top. Abstain I must, abstain I do. We could soon be in that very rare situation where two empires have veto power -- and had I not taken Rigel, the end vote would probably have been 39-22, not 38-23 ... even closer to the rocks winning.  Relations with the Meklar are touchy enough that I need more tech just so that I can bribe them. They could flip at any time, and the Alkari-Meklar alliance is still on. Even as I continue building ships for another attack, that is the biggest concern. Next year, the report comes back from Altair; 34 bases and a more numerous fleet than any we've faced so far. Once again I need to pretty much 'max out'.  Well, that sucks. Worse, in 2454 the Alkari signed an alliance with the Bulrathi as well. The best way around this, as far as I can tell, is to make sure they don't have time to appeal for aid. While it's a risky plan, if I time my transports and fleet to arrive at the same time, I should be able to invade Altair before they can send diplomats to Ursa and Meklon to request they join in war. If so, the only race they will have contact with is the Silicoids -- who they aren't allied with. That remote lower-right planet shouldn't give them diplomatic contact with anyone else. Of course, should the attack fail at any point, I'm totally screwed. And the best part about that is the fact that in order to bring enough troops to ensure success, I'll need to send them from three systems(Rigel, Zoctan, and Sssla). Sssla's troops will require a full decade to arrive. A lot can happen in 10 years. But if I was going to do this, I needed to do it right now. And so the order was given. Altair would fall ... or else. Or else what? Or else we are in big trouble. And meanwhile the ships would continue pouring into Rigel ...  The next year. Clearly, their spies have not told Farseer of our plans. Perhaps he doesn't see as well as he once did. I don't need the dishonorable penalty for breaking agreements getting any worse -- the transports from the homeworld are en route. I politely decline the deal I requested a few years ago. I wonder by the inquisitive look in the ambassador's eyes if they are suspicious ... https://youtu.be/CBErdNhTgsw Two years later. There was no declaration of war. I think it's safe to say the plan has failed. But hey, we got Toxic Colonization now!! Ahh well. We had the sword of Damocles dangling over our heads. It's not dangling anymore. 59 Megabolt Cannons. Of course, that was the fourth most powerful race that just crushed our fleet like so many insignificant dust particles. They didn't hang around though. There was at least some small chance this was a one-off attack and we could recolonize Rigel. It's not like I have a better idea. Of course all of those Sakka trooper headed for Altair are screwed -- and I'm kind of curious whether they will even get there since it's now out of range. Anyway, Sssla was the best source since the nebula slows down travel from Phyco ... the homeworld isn't quite back up to max population yet but can still easily handle building one in less than a year.  After three Recons reported Mrrshan-settled worlds, not surprisingly, on their expeditions, the Silicoids beat us to Rigel. With a single destroyer. Umm, ok. Nobody else showed up.  The next year, 2461. It will take some time to rebuild what the Meklar destroyed, but that's the least of our problems. Transports are three years out from Altair, and they will perish; we can only get about three dozen destroyers there in that amount of time, and that's only a fraction of what we'd need to have a chance. Only thing to be done is to minimize the diplomatic fallout from our soon-to-be-slaughtered invaders. Currently, the Alkari have Bulrathi allies but that's all; not the Meklar anymore. I need to keep tabs on their tech advances but for now I haven't got a better idea than rebuild the fleet and try for Altair again. Of course it's likely to have gotten more difficult, but our complete lack of other options is rather compelling. https://youtu.be/YNYcZO8GnNk *sigh*. Well there goes that. I haven't been able to boost relations enough for an alliance yet. And now, we'd have to fight them for Rigel. That ain't happening. Or is it ... since we have two sets of transports on the way. All I can do is evacuate our ships and hope they don't get too mad about our troops when they arrive. Contact is broken with the Alkari again. Honestly there's nothing left but to tech-and-base up now. To what end? Umm, basically presenting a less-inviting target. Our offensive options are now the Bulrathi and Silicoids. Nope. A highly-improbable spoils-of-war expansion is all that remains. Everyone else is allied. Silicoid-Mrrshan-Meklar vs. Bulrathi-Alkari looks like the division. I definitely want in on the Silicoid side of that. And the question should be asked what do I have to lose from upsetting the Bulrathi? Umm, losing earlier than expected?? So I decide to try for a bit of espionage against them when/if I can.  So, apparently some magical range-enhancing thing happened here. Fuel pods .,.. eh, nothing makes sense. We had the range to get there when launched, and that's all that matters. Anyway, this is no surprise. As the years passed, it became increasingly obvious that we were going to have a shot at re-taking Rigel; their population wasn't growing very fast. Of course it wasn't; they are rocks. I prepared to bribe with everything I had the year before we arrived ...  Now we have Class V planetary shields. A hearty so what to that at this point. I go with the deflectors here.  I threw a bunch of crap tech at the Silicoids to get this. Four of them. Three wasn't enough. Our transports are scheduled to arrive next year, but now they were all destroyed instead of ticking off the most powerful race in the galaxy.  Because they don't have enough yet.  Thankfully Robotics IV is next. Now we'll be able to see the doom before it comes. Probably.  Like this, for example. Bulrathi ships massing at our border. Comforting.  They now have veto power.   They just need four votes for not-Granid, and they'll get them. The Mrrshan(10) do go Silicoid, as do the Meklar(7). That's not enough. Yet. We're back at 4. 39-17 the count with 41 needed.
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Feb 23, 2018 14:21
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