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Why is it an Alkari thing the gatling laser?
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Apr 15, 2018 18:29
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MOO: 'I hear you like hard starts, boy' 
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Apr 15, 2018 18:39
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Whew. You already proved you can slog it out under the worst scenarios, but goddamn. I vote reset, you've more than earned it. Also planet Box for the catbeasts is more than amenable to me.
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Apr 15, 2018 19:24
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A fantastic start Here's some propaganda posters! 
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Apr 15, 2018 19:26
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Yeah, feel free to reset I say. This is utter nonsense.
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Apr 15, 2018 21:07
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Now the game is just being abusive.
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Apr 15, 2018 21:13
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Ahahahaha. Oh boy. Moo really doesn't like you.
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Apr 15, 2018 22:37
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I'd encourage you to restart, but after that last run it's clear you won't. Good luck!
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Apr 15, 2018 22:46
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At this point, I would expect a supernova to take out your starting planet, leaving you with a 10pop planet, and you would still pull a win out of your rear end.
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Apr 15, 2018 23:58
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Kanthulhu posted:Why is it an Alkari thing the gatling laser? You can get two of them on a medium hull, which is about the most firepower you can feasibly manage in the early game. As the Alkari or Mrrshans that can claim you a few extra systems since their combat edge gives them a favourable exchange rate (except against each other). Useless against fortified planets, though, and probably not going to help on Impossible. On top of that, the Bulrathi are almost the worst possible neighbour on a constrained start since you can't take any of their factories without bioweapons (takes 4:1 numbers to take their planets with even tech, and invading planets is most valuable when you're behind on tech). Problem with early wars in this game is that they usually just give someone else the time to get unreasonably strong. It's fine on normal and sometimes on hard but on impossible the best you can usually hope for is to drag your target down with you. And that's if they don't crush you with their giant starting fleet or invade you on turn 10. I'm not going to say it can't be done, though. Not after that last game. The fun thing is that this isn't even the worst possible start. He could be boxed into the corner by both the Bulrathi and the Mrrshans, with only one open planet within 5 parsecs, which the Bulrathi take first. Then both of them declare war. Meanwhile the Psilons have half the galaxy to themselves. This is incredibly unlikely, of course... so look forward to that happening in the next game. Good luck, Thotimx!
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Apr 16, 2018 04:25
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Kanthulhu posted:Why is it an Alkari thing the gatling laser? What Cuazl said, but more generally also just the idea of going for a ship weapon instead of the missiles which I would normally pick for purposes of planetary defense. Broken Box posted:I vote reset, you've more than earned it. Added Space posted:feel free to reset I say. This is utter nonsense. I chuckled at Rappaport's images, but I've got another log to throw on the fire in response to this:  You've wandered into the wrong LP if you think I'm going to reset. No sirree, around here we soldier on and make lemonade out of the lemons MOO hands out ... or do our darndest trying. Randalor posted:At this point, I would expect a supernova to take out your starting planet, leaving you with a 10pop planet, and you would still pull a win out of your rear end. To these sentiments, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but the man behind the curtain would like to point out that I've lost 4 out of 10 games here. If it wasn't for the two epic comeback games I'd have a losing record.
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Apr 16, 2018 19:14
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I'm not sure why you're complaining so much. Orion is right there! You can get death rays! 
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Apr 16, 2018 20:39
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Dirk the Average posted:I'm not sure why you're complaining so much. Orion is right there! You can get death rays! drat straight! Flood the Guardian with unlimited flocks of Bird Power! Darken the skies! SQUAWK! 
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Apr 16, 2018 21:15
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Neophyte posted:drat straight! Flood the Guardian with unlimited flocks of Bird Power! Darken the skies! you joke but the guardian has a a whopping 85 installations of scatter pack x rocket launchers on this difficulty level to stop this exact strategy. it would be a legitimate strat otherwise.
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Apr 16, 2018 21:28
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Thotimx posted:To these sentiments, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but the man behind the curtain would like to point out that I've lost 4 out of 10 games here. If it wasn't for the two epic comeback games I'd have a losing record. How many of those were Impossible AI RNG running away with the game beyond your control, and how many were because you hosed up? You're literally saying that you "only" have a 60% win rate, on the hardest difficulty in a game that would probably beat my rear end on normal (while I love 4x games, I suck at them). Besides, I only said a supernova on your homeworld, not "and every other bad RNG element also triggering on you". While I have high hopes for your game, I'm not expecting you to be godlike.
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Apr 16, 2018 23:29
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Coolguye posted:you joke but the guardian has a a whopping 85 installations of scatter pack x rocket launchers on this difficulty level to stop this exact strategy. it would be a legitimate strat otherwise. Hmm... 85*10*5shots = 4250, and that's not even counting the 45 stellar converters taking out another 45*4 = 180 every turn. Of course, this is not factoring in any kind of defensive bonuses causing attacks to miss. When checking the number of stellar converters, I came across a wiki which says you can dodge the Guardian's missiles somehow, but the only thing I know you can do against missiles by movement is to run them into asteroids, which I believe eats half of the strike per each square of asteroids traveled. fake edit: looks like missiles fired from ships can fly for two rounds https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Master_of_Orion/Attack_range
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Apr 17, 2018 09:14
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This is shaping to be another 800 year old game isn't it.
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Apr 17, 2018 12:37
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StarFyter posted:looks like missiles fired from ships can fly for two rounds https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Master_of_Orion/Attack_range That article doesn't explain it very well, but this is the key thing. The other part of the trick is that moving diagonally makes missiles easier to evade - they end up travelling in a curve rather than straight at you, and grid based movement and Pythagoras have never really gotten along. The Guardian spends its first turn getting close enough to fire its beam weapons, generally moving to the center or top center of the screen and firing everything. Move three squares southeast (northeast if the Guardian goes south) and the missiles will chase you but not quite get to you in time. Next turn move back to where you started and the same thing will happen. Repeat until the missiles have gone and then attack. Don't bother trying to dodge the red torpedoes. Without the missiles it can only kill 64 ships a turn (stellar converters hit the same ship four times rather than making multiple attacks like other rapid-fire weapons) so it's just a matter of attrition. That ridiculous space lobster's a lot less intimidating when you know the trick. The Alkari maneuverability bonus means some of its attacks will actually miss, so the birds will take fewer losses doing this than the other races and therefore don't need quite as many ships. How many mostly depends on your targeting computers - hit chance and damage use the same roll, so against a ship with high defenses one level of attack can make a big difference. Late game Alkari can also take it down with fighters without losses, although by the time you can do that you'd just be showing off.
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Apr 17, 2018 16:59
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Randalor posted:How many of those were Impossible AI RNG running away with the game beyond your control, and how many were because you hosed up? One I screwed up, two were essentially unwinnable IMO, one was borderline. That's how I'd classify it anyway. And I hear what you're saying, I was basically just using what you said as an example(others said similar comments) and was also very consciously trying to lower expectations. Just basically saying that it's still very possible for me to lose -- and if I got hit with a supernova anytime early in the game on my homeworld, I think I'd need a repeat of the last game in which some key things had to go my way in order for me to survive. Your points are well taken. Palladium posted:This is shaping to be another 800 year old game isn't it. Maybe it is, and then again maybe it isn't. If I told, there'd be no suspense. And that would be cheating(err, spoilering).
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Apr 17, 2018 22:59
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Does that mean you finish a run before you start posting it?
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Apr 17, 2018 23:29
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No, but I'm usually ahead of what's in the thread. Not always, and how far ahead varies -- I do like to be enough ahead that I have a couple of updates 'in the can', so to speak. That way if I have a particularly busy workweek or some other sort of real-life interruption comes up, there's a buffer and I can keep things going without a big gap between updates.
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Apr 17, 2018 23:33
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StarFyter posted:Hmm... 85*10*5shots = 4250, and that's not even counting the 45 stellar converters taking out another 45*4 = 180 every turn. Aha! The Guardian's fatal weakness is its preset kill limit! 
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Apr 17, 2018 23:50
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Coolguye posted:you joke but the guardian has a a whopping 85 installations of scatter pack x rocket launchers on this difficulty level to stop this exact strategy. it would be a legitimate strat otherwise. But missiles only have 5 shots, and we have 6 design slots. We just need 5000 decoys for every 1000 fighters! I've never tried Cuazl's mass driver idea, but my fave megabolt cannon fighters do pretty well, and the +3 to hit helps make up for the fact you don't have room for engines and a gun on a Small ship and also a high-end battle computer. There's also the unfortunate reality that after a lot of testing, there are only a very specific range of matchups of accuracy / damage / enemy shields where shield-piercing weapons are better than the standard alternative. The only niche I've really used them for is "future-proof" designs you can churn out knowing you won't be replacing them for a long time (NPG fighters with Mrrshan being the ultimate example, those things are viable until 2500 probably), because they can last multiple generations of shield upgrades from the AI. Speaking of guns and shields, that's the big problem with the gatling laser. I want to like it too, and I do use it on occasion (like in that last Sakkra game), but the meta of the game cripples it. Every AI has to get Deflector 2s for its first research option, no exceptions. So planets are automatically immune and ships take 1/2 damage once they get it. It's really only good for sweeping fighters, and not every AI is going to field them. As for it being an "Alkari weapon," that's probably because to limit losses in the early game, most people have "shoot and scoot" destroyers with heavy lasers and move 2 (nuclear engines or Inertial Stabilizer). But the Alkari are hit so seldomly they can afford to get right into it and blast away with range-1 weapons and not cost you too much. Cuazl posted:Repeat until the missiles have gone and then attack. ... That ridiculous space lobster's a lot less intimidating when you know the trick. I can't bring myself to cheese limited-shot missiles in this game.  Missile bases, though, that's always fun when you've got something like fusion drive + fusion bomb fighters on anything slow and you can just diagonally dodge all the missiles coming in and bomb the planet in one go, which of course makes the pursuing missiles disappear. But I think ships' limited projectile turns is a programming limitation rather than a balance one (because missiles do chase you forever in MOO2) so it feels like an exploit to do that.
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Apr 18, 2018 07:44
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Episode XI: 2322-2350 So in between playing sessions I put some thought into this latest 'screw-you' from the MOO RNG.  2322 as I proceed. The light blue line is basically a cutoff of our upper-right quadrant, which is our sphere of influence(eventually). The green letters are points of interest. ** A -- This looks like the only entry from outside our quadrant due to the dark-space gaps. That obviously won't be true forever, I'm just talking early-game. Therefore this red star is a vital chokepoint and we need to get as close to it as possible and blockade here. ** B -- Seems that this must be Ursa, Bulrathi homeworld. They're going to have to push upwards towards us. ** C -- Klystron, our target to be colonized first. After Klystron, I think some early shipbuilding is justified to hold the Bulrathi to minimal expansion. If we can do that and keep them from pushing upwards, then grab whatever we can get in a leftward direction, that seems to be the best course of action. It's a tightrope to walk and easier said than done, but that's the goal. Translating that into action, we're going to get Range 5 soon, so I wanted to get enough Recons out there to be ready to go wherever that will take us after getting to Kryslon. Practically speaking, I think we can get them to our entire quadrant, and the two stars closest to the 'Chokepoint A' system. Ignoring Ursa for obvious reasons, that means 10-12 Recons. It just so happens that we had enough spending in the Ship slider already to build 11. Well then. The rest went into needed industry and research on the range. Building them now is thinking ahead ... and it will slow everything down a bit, but not that much. They're just Recons. Maintenance should be only around 1% per year. I either build the Recons now or after the Colonizer ... and that'll be too late to stake our claim to the territory I think. It definitely would mean a delay a getting to many systems and in the situation we're in I don't think that delay can be countenanced. Then it was a case of trying to match the research to the construction of the Colonizer, so that both would hopefully happen about the same time. I was right about the cost ... 0.8% and falling for the maintenance.  I go with Nuclear Engines here. We may well want the Inertial Stabilizers and it's good that we have the choice. I think 5 parsecs is enough range; if we had four I'd consider Irridum, but more speed will help in everything we need to do, getting ships moved around more swiftly and also improving their combat capabilities. And of course it is the cheapest option.  At the same time. Coming soon to a High Council near you, our homosapien overlords. It's 2331, with the Colonizer set to be finished next year. There is now only one planet, down near Ursa, that we cannot reach within the boundaries of what I consider to be our 'quadrant'. Recons are headed out to several destinations, including the 'Chokepoint A' system. Before the end of the decade we'll have a much better sense of just how screwed we are. Some research efforts will continue, the most paramount being getting Controlled Barren Environment so we can settle the only two other decent systems nearby. In the meantime, while it's not my usual play, it seems a better idea to get a small detachment ready to handle any Bulrathi conflicts, as opposed to building a colonizer that could only go to the marginally useful ball of rock Rha.  We can't put a reserve tank and any kind of weapon on a fighter-class ship, and we need those if we are to aggressively contest the systems between our territory and Ursa. Which is exactly what I intend to do, as well as posting advance guards near Chokepoint A to potentially delay whoever is out that way, if practical. This also means reserving half the space and about 15% of the cost of a combat ship for the bonus fuel. But is there really a choice? I don't think there is a good one. Altair can build one of these annually, while still reserving about half of its disposable income for researching Barren landings, and the Heavy Laser gives it a bit more punch and future-proofing in case the other races come out with shielded vessels soon.  The lower-most blue star in the quadrant is Trax, already a developed Bulrathi system. This though would work nicely as a research world and population incubator, as much as I'm not in the mood for poor planets beggars can't be choosers. We could leapfrog from Klystron(Colonizer en route, the red star) to Talas(Barren, yellow), and then here.  Barren is the name of the game around here. Unless the Bulrathi have moved down across dark space(doubtful), they have at most three systems; Ursa, Trax, and that red star that is still out of our reach for the moment. If I could hold them to those somehow, the Alkari could become at least the primary regional force.  'Chokepoint A', thy name is Spica. It's as good as any planet we've found so far even, though that's not saying much. Obviously a priority to secure this. Hopefully we can afford more later, but a Falcon is sent here immediately.  And we finally get a new colony, in 2336. This just barely brings Spica into range, at 5 parsecs away. Which presents me with a choice. Do I build a ship to go here immediately, or secure the Barrens to block the Bulrathi in? I think I want one more ship on the Bulrathi front first, then I'll snag this, then back to our quadrant, and so forth. It's a tough call though and I could go either way on it. Spica definitely has to be a vital priority.  We can forget about this planet for a while.  This one too, though Toranor does make it important to look for any opportunity to get Inferno or better.  Barren landings could have come in a couple years sooner but waited until 2338. I'll stick right here in planetology and get Improved Eco, a badly-needed economic boost. Tundra Landings won't help us so it's definitely going to be Terraforming after that. I can only afford a small investment in it though -- if reducing waste spending wasn't vital, I wouldn't be giving it any. I've got to get more colonizers out there.  The Klackons are just a short step past Spica. This is Dolz(population 75, 86 factories). They're going to come for Spica soon ... and I can't afford to dawdle. My hold on the Bulrathi situation and growth curve will have to be sacrificed, but it's worth the effort. I decide to go to Spica first instead. I just don't think we can afford to lose the system, and it will take several years to get there. Even the Falcon is still five years out ...  Our last Recon arrives for now. So this is the early battle; holding back the Bulrathi in our quadrant, and trying to establish the Spica chokepoint. In 2344, the Falcon arrives in Spica with no new activity noted. A Colonizer is en route, and two of three potential Bulrathi expansion systems in our quadrant have a Falcon picket as well; the third has one on the way. We could probably afford the maintenance on a second one for each system, but it's dead-certain we can't afford the time it would take to build them. Altair is now devoted to a modest amount of research with most effort going to the colonizer-building effort. We reach Spica in 2350. As good a way to end our first half-century of struggle as any. Of the four systems we can settle on the right, there is a Colonizer on the way to one, and a second one being built. No further activity from the Bulrathi has been seen. I'm pretty surprised that we've been able to do this much, to be honest. It's a sad state of affairs when you can say 'so far, so good' about a situation which involves just getting your third colony at the 50-year mark, but that's the way things look here.
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Apr 18, 2018 13:57
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Our scientist bird doesn't wear pants.
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Apr 18, 2018 16:11
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Kanthulhu posted:Our scientist bird doesn't wear pants. Pants are oppressive and don't allow SCIENCE to flow properly.
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Apr 18, 2018 17:21
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Kanthulhu posted:Our scientist bird doesn't wear pants. Neither does Donald Duck 
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Apr 18, 2018 18:38
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Kanthulhu posted:Our scientist bird doesn't wear pants. are you harshing on his one-piece science bathing suit
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Apr 19, 2018 14:38
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That's just Bird Lady Gaga.
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Apr 19, 2018 14:54
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If you couldn't control when you pooped you wouldn't wear pants either.
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Apr 19, 2018 14:59
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Neophyte posted:If you couldn't control when you pooped you wouldn't wear pants either. i imagine one of the pre-requisites for sentience is being able to control your poopability
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Apr 19, 2018 15:07
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https://twitter.com/ProBirdRights/status/450507784811864064?s=19
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Apr 19, 2018 15:50
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I guess the bathrooms would just be perches with newspaper on the floor. ...their political cartoons are probably better.
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Apr 19, 2018 17:07
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Sloober posted:are you harshing on his one-piece science bathing suit I think it is more a unitard. Isn’t padded enough for urination or poopification absorption.
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Apr 19, 2018 20:42
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I'd just like to point out that all replies to the last update have focus soley on discussing the apparel or lack of apparel worn by the scientist. And that's hilarious to me.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:04
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Hopefully we get to see the spy and military tech stealing birds for comparative purposes.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:15
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Episode X: 2350-2373 Mutually, but not equally benefiting.  Even this is reasonable. It is, after all, first contact. Kinda of amusing that we meet these races, but not the Bulrathi, who are much closer to Altair.  We can see right away that the Klackons got off to a slow start. I'm hoping then for a Human-Silicoid rivalry, because otherwhise it could be a runaway for Sol's children.  Humans are sort of spread out everywhere, but headquartered exactly opposite us. They have seven systems, just two for the Klackons. We have three, but could reach seven ourselves. Which isn't enough(10 is more like it) but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Both races agree to 50 BC trade deals. The Humans are bog-standard Honorable Diplomats, while the Klackons are Erratic Expansionists(great). We'd better do everything we can fortify Spica. And they are allied with the Silicoids; Humans claim Darloks as their ally. Which leaves only the Bulrathi, isolated over by us, out in the cold. Using the Human systems as a guide, I conjecture roughly middlish territory for the Darloks, lower-right being the Silicoid domain. That's how it looks anyway. Klystron immediately began sending colonists to Spica, 7M at first and then 1-3M for a few years after that. Some resources were also diverted there to trickle out a few more Recons, as we barely have enough now to get to all of the systems now within range using Spica as a refueling station. I don't expect to get anything more in that direction, but it's still worth taking a look.   That sounds like a load of 'Bullux'. *stares at the sky*. But yeah, the plan continues to proceed well, with our fourth system in 2353.  If the Bulrathi and Klackons stay as they are, we'll look fine by comparison.  Ursa, Trax, and that's all. Bullux is an Erratic Diplomat, making both of our neighbors Erratic. Yep, we'll be needing those ships. 75 BC trade agreed to, and I probably should have gone for a lower deal. I usually do minimums with Erratic leaders. The one saving grace here is we might just hold them off ... maybe ... if they stay small. But one destroyer at each system probably isn't going to do it, yet I can't afford more than that yet.  Not where I expected to find the rocks, but they tend to spread anywhere. Xudax. pop. 45, already 13 missile bases. Cool, have fun. Also ...  That, uh, didn't take long. You just met us two years ago. That trade deal wasn't worth the iPad it was printed on. I thought you were a diplomat, Bullux!! In all seriousness though, this isn't even an 'Erratic' message. We've painted them into a corner. Only way out is through us.  This would be quite nice. It's also quite far away, and six parsecs from Spica which means we can forget about it anytime soon. If I can ever spare them, it'd be good to send ships out that way. Or not, as the Klackons send a pair of escorted colony ships which arrive the next year.  Well, that explains why the Bulrathi didn't expand here. Two uninhabitable systems in our quadrant and the Guardian. Not exactly the best of fortune.  Not who I expected to find down here. Looks like our scouts had the same idea. Maretta, a jungle planet(max 75M, Poor) was the prize.  Or, a poorer sister world to Hyboria, settled the same year. Surprisingly, Maretta is now just within range, despite the dark-space gap. A long journey, but one worth the effort. Like at Nordia however, the thought was stamped out the next year. This time the Humans arrived, with three destroyers and a colony ship.  Finally. Another project overstaying it's welcome in prototype phase.  Somebody keep the Silicoids away from this place. Somehow. Someway. Time to go to general research priorities now. Altair will also get out of the research business entirely; Klystron takes over temporarily with a small investment.  That's a half-dozen. Better than either of the Sakkra starts, but that's not saying much.  The Humans hold ten systems, and definitely are looking like the early favorites. Stopping them in the early Council voting could be ... problematic. I also am able to turn Improved Eco Restoration into +10M Terraforming(from the Klackons) and Nuclear Engines(Humans).  Chasing us off from Thrax(the Toxic one over by the Klackons), we get another piece of the picture from these familiar guys.  Only the Darloks remain to be met. It's actually possible that I'm doing second-best here in terms of territory. That's hilarious. Aggressive Technologists. We sign a 100BC trade deal, and up our existing deals to that amount.  Scattered about as usual with five systems. What I'm most concerned with though is the Bulrathi ships headed towards us.  The forces of Bullux passed us by, off to parts unknown. I almost don't care ... unless it's Spica. Meanwhile we finally bother grabbing this.  It's a good galaxy for Toxic. Advantage Silicoids.  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got a late start and can't afford more. Another tech trade: Nuclear Engines to the Silicoids for Industrial Tech 9. A small, but possibly important acceleration of our buildup. And it also allowed just enough space to build the Sky Hawk, a version of the Falcon with Nuclear Engines.  It's 2371, and a point of transition has come. Altair has finished the final Colonizer that can reach a system within range(Moro, Barren). I think it's too late to bother with a faster Recon ship, but I would like to try to guard a few worlds and keep the others away long enough for us to bash our way up the tech tree to be able to get them. If it doesn't work, then we'll have wasted resources that could have gone towards research. I've got to do both the tech investment and the shipbuilding. A third path would be to pump money into the reserve and accelerate development. We have seven systems, and are about to get an 8th. I decide to try to do all three. Altair will throw enough reserve investment to boost the growing colonies, and then focus into research/shipbuilding. We have Recons over two Toxic(both rich/ultra), an Inferno(Rich), and a Radiated world. It's a race now. Can we build up our economy, our fleet, and our technological know-how in time? Probably not. But if we can, I could turn this turd of a start into a rose.  Boo.  Actually, it hasn't been the slightest strain at all. But sure.  Screw you.  #8. They are generally of low quality, but with time and terraforming that will matter less.  Yep. We're nominated in the first Council vote. After losing our colony ship to the Guardian. Sure.  Watch them all vote for Farseer.  Ummm ....  Fantastic. He's three votes from victory and veto-capable.  I WASN'T BEING SERIOUS!!!  You suck. Every last one of you SUCK. And three votes for us. Vote for ourselves just to spite them.  One year faster than the LP's previous quickest defeat, which the Humans also inflicted(Ep. II, Klackons). This time, I rise from the uber-crap start to get nominated and lose 17-3. I think I did well to rally like this after losing the first colony ship. MOO doesn't care. Lasitus is potentate. Lasitus is deity. Lasitus is Life. Lasitus can kiss me rosy bum. Of course one could say, 'well you should have bribed the others'. Maybe, but that might not have been enough, and then I wouldn't have been able to do the tech trades I did, without which I was much more vulnerable to a Bulrathi/Klackon erratic attack, etc. I still think in the future though I definitely need to go the bribe route whenever the Humans are a clear Council nominee. This is the first game in this LP that legit has had me upset(though only briefly, it is just a game). I mean, I thought I had pulled this together enough to have a chance. Nope, sorry, better luck next time. The Alkari will rise again.
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Apr 21, 2018 05:14
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Haha drat Everybody Loves Humans! Stupid mammals!
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Apr 21, 2018 05:25
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Yea, I’ve had similar games, to the point that I don’t want to be nominated if it’s against the Humans.
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Apr 21, 2018 05:31
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Well, Jesus, that sucked.
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Apr 21, 2018 06:15
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