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Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Grimey Drawer

Toplowtech posted:

No, it's not ganesha it's a fat smiling god so either one of seven Lucky Gods, Hotei or chinese god Budai(the "laughing buddha").

Both are there



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mallratcal
Sep 10, 2003

Goodnight Canada!


Buddha is getting lit af.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Toplowtech posted:

No, it's not ganesha it's a fat smiling god so either one of seven Lucky Gods, Hotei or chinese god Budai(the "laughing buddha").

Due to the way Gods work in American Gods, Budai is probably the same being as Buddha, even though they are different in real life.

Edit: Actually, probably not, it's probably more like what's going on with Jesus.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

"TELL ME HOW TO GET PIG SEMEN OUT OF SUEDE" Club soda, fucktard.

Snak posted:

Due to the way Gods work in American Gods, Budai is probably the same being as Buddha, even though they are different in real life.

Edit: Actually, probably not, it's probably more like what's going on with Jesus.

In India maybe...I imagine the eponymous American God would be a blend.

Like, that wasn't the ~real~ Vulcan who Wednesday killed, but a version of him which had been brought to America by the factory workers, right?

vermin
Feb 28, 2017

Help, I've turned into a manifestation of mental disorders as viewed through an early 20th century lens sparked by the disparity between man and modern society and I can't get up

Kilson posted:

I want some Indian gods. Ganesha and Shiva would be pretty rad!

The depiction of Ghandi on Clone High helped kill Clone High. I don't know if that transfers to Indian religious depictions but that's probably some thin ice to walk on.

biracial bear for uncut
Jun 9, 2009
EVERYTHING THIS DIPSHIT POSTS IS



BLOCK/IGNORE THEM IMMEDIATELY



Toplowtech posted:

No, it's not ganesha it's a fat smiling god so either one of seven Lucky Gods, Hotei or chinese god Budai(the "laughing buddha").

I'm not talking about that god, I'm talking about this one:

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

In India maybe...I imagine the eponymous American God would be a blend.

Like, that wasn't the ~real~ Vulcan who Wednesday killed, but a version of him which had been brought to America by the factory workers, right?

If it's not, though, then why would Odin be temped by "selling out?" If selling out just makes a splinter of yourself... things becomes way more existentially complicated.

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010



vermin posted:

The depiction of Ghandi on Clone High helped kill Clone High. I don't know if that transfers to Indian religious depictions but that's probably some thin ice to walk on.

Say what?!

Taintrunner
Apr 10, 2017

Professional Drunk




https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ublishing.india

Weird, I never heard of this either

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

SO MUCH FOR THE TOLERANT LEFT


Desperado Bones posted:

I know it's correct that we pray to saints to ask them to intercede for us with God, but in many ocassions it really, REALLY feels like and it's worshipping.

Prayer is an act of worship. I can't figure out what distinction is incorporated in "We don't worship Mary, we just pray to her for supernatural intercession and erect shrines to her and the actual catechism of the Catholic church states literally that devotion to her is intrinsic to Christian worship."

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

When you ask other humans for help, it's not considered worship.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

SO MUCH FOR THE TOLERANT LEFT


Snak posted:

When you ask other humans for help, it's not considered worship.

When you exalt and venerate and pray to a dead human in order to ask her to do things for you and the head of your church states that she lived a literally sinless life unlike every other human being in history, yeah, that's considered worship.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

I mean, yeah.

But it depends on how you define "worship". Many people, including Catholics, consider worship to refer to veneration of a deity. So when they say they "Don't worship Mary", they say that because they don't consider her a deity, therefore their veneration of her is not worship.

If you use a more general definition of worship, like the one you have suggested, of course their veneration of Mary is worship.

Like most technicalities of Catholicism, they employ equivocation to differentiate their beliefs from beleifs they are critical of.

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!


Phanatic posted:

Prayer is an act of worship. I can't figure out what distinction is incorporated in "We don't worship Mary, we just pray to her for supernatural intercession and erect shrines to her and the actual catechism of the Catholic church states literally that devotion to her is intrinsic to Christian worship."


Snak posted:

When you ask other humans for help, it's not considered worship.


The ideal would be not to put a shrine for a saint, and just ask for said favor with a prayer. BUT you have to realize that behind many Catholic customs there are many pagan ones.
Lady of Guadalupe, my example, is said to be actually an aztec goddess (her shrine is built on the same place said goddess was worshipped). Some people say she was actually made out by the religious people in the country to make native mexicans stop worshipping their other gods (they also probably didn't like the white virgin mary for obvious reasons). So Catholicism is weird, complicated and poo poo changes depending of the branch/country/town. I don't have any studies in theology or anthropology so I'm just talking about the things I've seen and know.

Edit: I also replied too late.

Desperado Bones fucked around with this message at Jun 21, 2017 around 21:07

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

daisy fresh and arrow straight


Same thing happened with Brigid in Ireland, she'd been a Celtic goddess that the church basically just put a St. in front of to appease the locals

precision
May 7, 2006

Would you like to challenge?


I think it would be awesome if Crowley and Anton LaVey both show up and fight each other

Catholics at one point even said that Egyptian gods and Buddha were saints. They were just giving it away at that point.

turboraton
Aug 27, 2011


Soothing Vapors posted:

Catholics don't worship Mary

This guy needs to go to South America.

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!


precision posted:

I think it would be awesome if Crowley and Anton LaVey both show up and fight each other

Catholics at one point even said that Egyptian gods and Buddha were saints. They were just giving it away at that point.

When you want to gain as much followers as possible and people don't really like your religion, some times, you have to just make everything a saint!
Of course another way to gain followers is by mere brutal force.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

The point is that the Catholic "party line" is that they don't. Catholicism's whole deal with how it spread is to reclassify worship of pagan deities as a roundabout method of worshipping the Christian God.

In practice, just like in the show, lots of Catholic do worship Mary and other saints.

It's just like how there's no such thing as an Ex-Marine, because once you're in the USMC, you're too badass to be vulnerable to the past tense.

vermin
Feb 28, 2017

Help, I've turned into a manifestation of mental disorders as viewed through an early 20th century lens sparked by the disparity between man and modern society and I can't get up

ODIN VS PAN, ACTUAL FOOTAGE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuQw3qjzsBE

precision
May 7, 2006

Would you like to challenge?


Catholicism is so frustrating because it's almost there, I mean just in the last 10 years one of the higher-ranking Vatican scholars admitted that the Gnostic Gospels were worth reading - contrast this with most Protestant branches who claim they were "written by Satan"

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!



Caught this on TV twice,I give it 12 out of 4 stars. (I think the original didn't have the annoying narrator explaining everything).

vermin
Feb 28, 2017

Help, I've turned into a manifestation of mental disorders as viewed through an early 20th century lens sparked by the disparity between man and modern society and I can't get up

I believe the narrator is Thoth

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

SO MUCH FOR THE TOLERANT LEFT


Snak posted:

Like most technicalities of Catholicism, they employ equivocation to differentiate their beliefs from beleifs they are critical of.

Yeah. But in the context of *this show*, I think it's unquestionably worship. The people who celebrate Easter every year and dye eggs and eat chocolate bunnies don't believe in Ostara as a literal goddess, but the rote actions they're going through are still close-enough echoes of what her actual worshippers used to do that she's still around and still pretty damned potent. And again, Vulcan: Every trigger pulled is a prayer. Even though they're not *literal* prayers, that's still close enough for that power to flow to him as a God.

If every trigger pulled is a prayer, an act of worship that can sustain a divine entity, even if the people doing the shooting have never heard of and don't care a bit about Vulcan, than all the old Spanish and Italian and Mexican and French ladies who are *literally* praying to Mary 53 times every time they do a rosary (54, if they stick a Fatima in there amongst all the Hail Marys) are definite engaged in worship in the sense the show means it.

Snak posted:

It's just like how there's no such thing as an Ex-Marine,

There are a few but they're generally among the class of people who are so infamous they're referred to by all three of their names.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Of course it is, because Mary is there at Easter. Generated by people's worship. She wouldn't be there if people didn't worship her.

Edit: Sorry, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I realize I'm coming off that way.

I agree with almsit everything that's been said on this topic, I was simply pointing out why Catholics can say they don't worship Mary with a straight face.

This is not a show gives a poo poo about the definitions of things according to churches and cults. It's about the emergent nature and power of belief.

Snak fucked around with this message at Jun 21, 2017 around 22:12

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




Was the baby Jesus with that Virgin Mary a separate person, or do you think it's all one person? Like because her concept is "Mary with Jesus" she permanently has a baby attached to her arm.

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

daisy fresh and arrow straight


Snak posted:

Of course it is, because Mary is there at Easter. Generated by people's worship. She wouldn't be there if people didn't worship her.

Edit: Sorry, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I realize I'm coming off that way.

I agree with almsit everything that's been said on this topic, I was simply pointing out why Catholics can say they don't worship Mary with a straight face.

This is not a show gives a poo poo about the definitions of things according to churches and cults. It's about the emergent nature and power of belief.

I once read a quote about how Jewish people sort of view their god as one who would respect/be proud of a bit of rules lawyering where religious laws and biblical interpretations are involved. As Judaism's direct descendant, it would make sense that there's a large degree of it in Catholicism as well. Can't say I disagree, tbh, and it makes for some of the cooler mystical bits of both religions. Protestantism is just so dry by comparison.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

"TELL ME HOW TO GET PIG SEMEN OUT OF SUEDE" Club soda, fucktard.

Cojawfee posted:

Was the baby Jesus with that Virgin Mary a separate person, or do you think it's all one person? Like because her concept is "Mary with Jesus" she permanently has a baby attached to her arm.

Yeah, it was the Madonna.

nooneofconsequence
Oct 29, 2012

I'll give your compliments to the pillow.


What is that you say?!

counterfeitsaint
Feb 26, 2010

I'm a girl, and you're
gnomes, and it's like
what? Yikes.

Crow Jane posted:

I once read a quote about how Jewish people sort of view their god as one who would respect/be proud of a bit of rules lawyering where religious laws and biblical interpretations are involved. As Judaism's direct descendant, it would make sense that there's a large degree of it in Catholicism as well. Can't say I disagree, tbh, and it makes for some of the cooler mystical bits of both religions. Protestantism is just so dry by comparison.

Jewish rules lawyering is absolutely loving hilarious. I especially love the Sabbot Phone. I'd love to see a depiction of Yahweh looking over a phone and declaring it technically acceptable, which as we all know, is the best kind of acceptable.

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404notfound
Mar 5, 2006

stop staring at me

counterfeitsaint posted:

Jewish rules lawyering is absolutely loving hilarious. I especially love the Sabbot Phone. I'd love to see a depiction of Yahweh looking over a phone and declaring it technically acceptable, which as we all know, is the best kind of acceptable.

There's a giant wire encircling Manhattan that technically makes it a private place where you're allowed to actually do things on the day of rest: http://mentalfloss.com/article/9159...y-never-noticed

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