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Aerox posted:Decided to try this again after not having played really since beta and ended up as Lucio alone in top lane on a three lane map while my other four teammates all went mid and left the bottom lane empty. Don't solo as Lucio. Especially if all four of your other team members were together. They screwed up if they all stayed in one lane, but you made sure that there was a 0% chance to win by soloing as Lucio when the rest of the team was together. Sorry. 
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Apr 26, 2017 18:26
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Eh, not really. Their chance of winning was already 0% if they're ignoring a lane. Doesn't really matter what he does at that point it's still 0%.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:28
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bamhand posted:Eh, not really. Their chance of winning was already 0% if they're ignoring a lane. Doesn't really matter what he does at that point it's still 0%. It's perfectly possible to death-ball a lane and get early XP advantages and force teamfights, especially in QM. They had maybe a 5% chance of winning, depending on circumstances, but Lucio (who is the hero that provides BY FAR the most value when a team groups) leaving the 4 of them to get picked will take it down to 0. It is almost always better to have 5 people do a sub-optimal strategy than to have people get picked.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:32
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I mean you can also argue that he could safe soak as Lucio to try and keep his team even on xp while the 4 man pushed down the mid fort 4v3. You can make all sorts of what ifs but realistically his team has already lost and there's nothing he can do.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:35
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When in doubt, it's better to join the big idiot ball than try to be a solo hero. A group of idiots will outperform one smart dude most of the time.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:36
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I pressed the voice line button as Cassia the other day and it was playing Samuro lines. Anyone else run into that?
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Apr 26, 2017 18:36
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Oxyclean posted:I pressed the voice line button as Cassia the other day and it was playing Samuro lines. Anyone else run into that? I don't see the problem with this.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:37
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Also the number one reason people < Plat lose is they have no loving idea what soaking is. Keeping all 3 lanes safely soaked is like the best thing a team can do to help them win.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:38
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Lucio is also the weakest laner in the entire game and soaks slower than anyone else. Even Morales can at least heal the minions. They very likely were going to lose anyway, but there is not really any scenario where Lucio solo laning while the other 4 team members are grouped and team fighting is the optimal scenario.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:38
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grubby always likes to say that your job as the support is to be near your teammate who is most likely to die at any given time.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:40
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Lucio is also the weakest laner in the entire game and soaks slower than anyone else. You are confusing soaking with pushing. Everyone soaks at the same rate. Your job as a solo laner is not to push. It's to safely soak. But all of that is besides the point. You say that there is no scenario where solo laning as Lucio is correct. However there is also no scenario where 5 manning mid is correct. So there basically is nothing that he could have done to correct the situation.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:41
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It'd be nice if they added a toggle for what kind of party you're looking for when you tick the box. Playing with the mfpt guys is nice but seeing a dozen open groups and not knowing who's looking for draft when you just want a QM is kind of jarring. Maybe it's on purpose to shame people (me) into drafting?
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Apr 26, 2017 18:43
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bamhand posted:You are confusing soaking with pushing. Everyone soaks at the same rate. Your job as a solo laner is not to push. It's to safely soak. 5-manning mid is the correct scenario when you are Lucio and the rest of your team is together. It is a bad strategy, but solo laning as Lucio and letting the rest of your team get picked is going to lose you XP and the game much faster than sitting in a lane ever will.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:45
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It's the same thing in Overwatch really, or any other team game, everybody doing a dumb thing together is better than one person trying to be the voice of reason. Especially if that person is a support, whose entire purpose is to be near other people.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:49
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:5-manning mid is the correct scenario when you are Lucio and the rest of your team is together. I'm not sure how one strategy that leads to a loss is better than another strategy that leads to a loss. If your team is 4 manning they shouldn't get picked because the enemy team has 3 mid, one top, one bottom. You are now helping to make up lost xp as best you can. If the enemy team devotes 4 mid then you guys are even with 4v4 mid and 1 additional lane soaked for each team. If the enemy team devotes 5 mid then your team should be smart enough to play safe while you guys soak twice the xp of the enemy team, you are winning in this scenario. Obviously what really happens is your team consists of complete idiots and they will all feed mid no matter what so you've already lost. In which case I don't see the difference between 5 manning mid and losing or solo soaking while your team 4 mans and losing. The results are exactly the same. Kai Tave posted:It's the same thing in Overwatch really, or any other team game, everybody doing a dumb thing together is better than one person trying to be the voice of reason. Especially if that person is a support, whose entire purpose is to be near other people. This isn't really true because there's no concept of soaking in Overwatch. Having Tass solo soak is perfectly fine. bamhand fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 18:48
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Lane discipline in QM seems to be getting worse. Everyone just charges into mid in the opening minute and tries to get kills in an epic clash over nothing. I usually like to play tanks or supports or lost vikings, so it is horrible to watch the other two lanes go unsoaked.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:50
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Olaf The Stout posted:Lane discipline in QM seems to be getting worse. Everyone just charges into mid in the opening minute and tries to get kills in an epic clash over nothing. I usually like to play tanks or supports or lost vikings, so it is horrible to watch the other two lanes go unsoaked. On this point was there an MMR reset with 2.0? I know my MMR is lower purely because I'm playing with some low level friends who are trying the game out, but even my solo games consist of the enemy team doing terrible 5 man death squads or using jumps to get over a wall and suiciding to a keep. I'm sure part of it is 90% of the current population blind picking a new champ they got but my games were really uncompetitive the last two days.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:55
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bamhand posted:I'm not sure how one strategy that leads to a loss is better than another strategy that leads to a loss. If your team is 4 manning they shouldn't get picked because the enemy team has 3 mid, one top, one bottom. You are now helping to make up lost xp as best you can. Except that they aren't the same. 4-manning mid is a bad strategy, but with Lucio they could have sustained for a little bit and pulled out when an objective pops that funnels people towards it. The other team only need 2-3 people mid with towers and forts to get picks (especially with the only support - whose entire gimmick is AoE healing that is more effective when more people are clumped together) is off by himself. 4 Hero kills and respawn timers is more XP than multiple full minion wave clears. Not to mention it is entirely possible that the enemy team was able to soak 2 or all 3 lanes while they picked the other 4. The rest of the team following a bad strategy is not a good reason to pick the worst strategy. Even if your move "makes sense" if everyone else was on board.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:55
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If your team is literally walking into towers and dying 4v3 there's nothing you can do to win. Lucio healing is not going to stop a tower from killing your teammates. You're arguing stabbing yourself in the left eye is somehow better than stabbing yourself in the right eye. All the strategies are awful and it's irrelevant what you do.
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Apr 26, 2017 18:59
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bamhand posted:If your team is literally walking into towers and dying 4v3 there's nothing you can do to win. Lucio healing is not going to stop a tower from killing your teammates. You're arguing stabbing yourself in the left eye is somehow better than stabbing yourself in the right eye. All the strategies are awful and it's irrelevant what you do. What if your Left eye is a Lazy eye though?
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Apr 26, 2017 19:02
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Replace the OP with this tia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHCLgdLoLEQ
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Apr 26, 2017 19:02
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"If I go to the deathball and help my team win this dumb fight over nothing then we can get back to sensibly laning," there, now you can both maintain your sense of superiority about being the only smart person on the team while also doing something that's marginally more likely to help move things forwards in a positive direction.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:13
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I like the start of the round slap-fight in middle because its great for getting some easy stacks on level 1 quests that need you to hit heroes. And then if you quickly transition to another lane when the fight quickly winds down you can get some extra exp over the enemy team when they stick around too long in mid.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:14
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Oxyclean posted:I pressed the voice line button as Cassia the other day and it was playing Samuro lines. Anyone else run into that? Some heroes have a mounted voice line bug. I had it on the rainbow unicorn, my genji was sprouting Leoric lines.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:17
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Why do I keep picking bans in this game? I literally have no idea what I'm doing because I have like an hour playtime under my belt. I think I'm 4/4 on being the ban picker dude.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:20
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Orthodox Rabbit posted:I like the start of the round slap-fight in middle because its great for getting some easy stacks on level 1 quests that need you to hit heroes. And then if you quickly transition to another lane when the fight quickly winds down you can get some extra exp over the enemy team when they stick around too long in mid. Everybody charges mid in QM for probably two reasons: 1). They saw some pro players do it once for actual sensible reasons and decided that this is how they should always play regardless of context or circumstance, and: 2). It's quickmatch so nobody really gives a poo poo. e; it's like how in quickmatch in Overwatch people getting mad because their team slampicks Hanzo and Widowmaker instead of an "effective comp" when you're literally queuing into the Nothing Matters mode that doesn't even track W/L or anything, the actual tryhards are off playing competitive.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:21
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Modest Mouse cover band posted:Why do I keep picking bans in this game? I literally have no idea what I'm doing because I have like an hour playtime under my belt. I think I'm 4/4 on being the ban picker dude. I might be mis-remembering but I think it gives the person with the highest rating on the team Ban powers. Which if true makes me like getting ban powers even less because it means the system thinks everyone on my team is worse than me, and that's not an inspiring thought.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:26
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Anyone figure out a good Hanamura strat yet? I'm not sure if I should push towers then focus carts, or focus carts from the start.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:32
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Kai Tave posted:Everybody charges mid in QM for probably two reasons: The actual sensible reason is that the middle lane is shorter than the other two. That means that the minions meet sooner. You can clear a minion wave or get picks with everyone in the middle before the other two lanes meet. Keegers posted:Anyone figure out a good Hanamura strat yet? I'm not sure if I should push towers then focus carts, or focus carts from the start. If you have a strong sustain hero or a good duo, then you can stop the enemy payload in the middle of minion pathing and soak/deny the enemy team forever while the rest of your team escorts your payload. I've had multiple games with 3+ level leads and then it becomes impossible for the other team to win. You only need 1 or 2 people who know what they are doing and the rest of the team will usually instinctively go to the payloads in QM, so it doesn't even require a ton of coordination. Also, the merc camps give a chunk of XP when captured. People tend to ignore them because the tokens aren't amazing. If you just do a delay+soak strat you will win 90% of the time in QM. Everyone else wants to die heroically throwing themselves at the payload.
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Apr 26, 2017 19:58
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Modest Mouse cover band posted:Why do I keep picking bans in this game? I literally have no idea what I'm doing because I have like an hour playtime under my belt. I think I'm 4/4 on being the ban picker dude. Is playing unranked draft better then QM? I have only played QM and I have about 30 hours under my belt. But I still feel like I don't know enough to play unranked draft well. Would I get better if I solo q unranked draft?
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Apr 26, 2017 20:13
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you can still pick whoever you want in unranked draft. if you're in the last spot you might have to warrior or support, but even then if you tell people up front you want to run nova, they might draft around you. it's basically the same thing but you get a sane team comp more often.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:15
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ninguno posted:you can still pick whoever you want in unranked draft. if you're in the last spot you might have to warrior or support, but even then if you tell people up front you want to run nova, they might draft around you. I've taken an affinity towards playing tanks/bruisers. Really like muradin. And I like some of the supports as well. Do you know the map going in or is that still random? Also are the players generally better?
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Apr 26, 2017 20:20
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you get told the map before the draft. if you want to see how a draft goes you can just watch the beginning of a streamer video just to see the mechanics so you don't get caught completely off-guard, but the players are scaled the exact same way as in quickmatch so it should be the same level. if you want to play a tank or a bruiser, you can click on it before it's your turn to pick and everyone will most likely be happy to let it get to you.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:23
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is there a website that helps you decide who to ban? Or just ask the people you're with if you don't know?
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Apr 26, 2017 20:26
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Holyshoot posted:is there a website that helps you decide who to ban? Or just ask the people you're with if you don't know? Just ask. Who to ban really depends on map and team comp. Usually, just ban anyone who is a hard counter to people on your team that you don't plan to use (Like Tychus if you have a Cho'Gall or Genji if you have a bunch of low HP and low mobility casters) or has a strong synergy with someone the other team picks (Lt. Morales if they have some strong AA carries).
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Apr 26, 2017 20:30
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You should always first ban Cho and then ban Gall.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:31
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I usually first ban Nova or Valeera as a quick shortcut to determine who on my team I should put on ignore before the game starts to save time.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:33
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What was the highest level everyone've seen so far? I've watched only a few streamers and even though so far I think Grubby chumped most of them with his 1401 levels, I'm sure there are more heroic poopsockers!
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Apr 26, 2017 21:40
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The actual sensible reason is that the middle lane is shorter than the other two. That means that the minions meet sooner. You can clear a minion wave or get picks with everyone in the middle before the other two lanes meet. I didn't know that, thanks. So is there any rhyme or reason for who should go to what lane when you do actually split up into lanes?
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Apr 26, 2017 22:04
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Nice, they finally made it so I can set Shift+RightClick to be attack move and turn off Shift modifier being queued commands. That was like half my issue with trying to play HOTS right there. Still hate trying to find my white cursor on white ground tiles in the middle of bright blue explosions on some maps, but what can you do. Played my 5 games for rewards, bought Tank bundle and Gul'  Muradin feels less fun than I remember him being, though. I think they reworked some of his talents. 
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