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There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

emanresu tnuocca posted:

So it's a bit odd that Moira was sent to the brothel rather than back to being a bipedal womb given that she's allegedly fertile and all.

I dig that this isn't a plot-hole given that the very existence of the brothel is indicative of the hypocrasy of the higher echelons of the Sons of Jacob, but still, a touch odd given the lengths they went to with Ofglen.

Ofglen hadn't actually assaulted anyone. Her crimes were nonviolent.

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radlum
May 13, 2013


Do we know what happened to Ofglen after she took that car and drove over a guy?

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

radlum posted:

Do we know what happened to Ofglen after she took that car and drove over a guy?

Not yet. They didn't show her being killed so they might come back to her.

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer

There Bias Two posted:

Ofglen hadn't actually assaulted anyone. Her crimes were nonviolent.

Then again, Moria and June both assaulted that one Aunt in their escape attempt. They both received punishment once they were caught.

It's just weird that Moria wasn't sent back to the Red Center. Somehow, she was branded as a bad apple. It just isn't clear where Gilead's lines are regarding rebellious Handmaids.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

Thwomp posted:

Then again, Moria and June both assaulted that one Aunt in their escape attempt. They both received punishment once they were caught.

It's just weird that Moria wasn't sent back to the Red Center. Somehow, she was branded as a bad apple. It just isn't clear where Gilead's lines are regarding rebellious Handmaids.

She assaulted someone with a deadly weapon and escaped the center. I think the line is pretty clear. Why would it be weird not to send her back?

Red Oktober
May 24, 2006

wiggly eyes!



It seemed that she was implying they weren't sending her back because she could have too dangerous an influence on the remaining handmaids. Makes sense that they would want to keep her influence away from them.

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer

Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly. Was it only Moira who assaulted the Aunt? I thought June did as well.


Maybe it's more that Moira escaped, found the Underground, and was then captured. Joining/having knowledge of the Underground may be a step too far for the authorities.

Alterian
Jan 28, 2003



I did like that June's makeup and dress were super tacky.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

I never thought they'd make her exploitation "worse" than the "ritual" but whelp. Taking her there was what, a veiled threat? A misapprehension that as a "fallen woman" before Gilead she'd be more comfortable around her own? Gross.

The "who are they" exchange. First he thinks she's asking about the Important Men, then when she clarifies the question he seems positively thrilled with how they brought successful women low, like the wormiest r/redpill poster living out his fantasy.

Man this show.

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011


yeah that part was gross: "we have a CEO here, a renowned sociology professor..." Jesus.

Agentdark
Dec 30, 2007
Mom says I'm the best painter she's ever seen. Jealous much?

Skizzzer posted:

yeah that part was gross: "we have a CEO here, a renowned sociology professor..." Jesus.

I commented on another board about alot of redpill posters would love Gilead. Which is...really horrifying

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe

Agentdark posted:

I commented on another board about alot of redpill posters would love Gilead. Which is...really horrifying

Of course they assume that they would be among the elite who are assigned women to surprise sex.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

withak posted:

Of course they assume that they would be among the elite who are assigned women to surprise sex.

They'd be purged.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

I guess it would depend on how sincerely they followed the Dick Dorkens Internet Atheism that tends to go with that kind of thing.

I am sufficiently cynical about the depths of their convictions to believe they'd be willing enough converts to pay lip service to the Sons of Jacob if they thought it got them any status or authority to do bad things to people they felt deserve it.

Bamabalacha
Sep 18, 2006

Outta my way, ya dumb rah-rah!

There Bias Two posted:

They'd be purged.

I like that they're alluding to (book spoiler) the first set of purges that they mention in the epilogue, where Waterford is killed for being in possession of illegal material and "harboring a subversive"

My guess is the season will end with some of that stuff as opposed to what happens at the end of the book.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Broken Cake

Dick Dorkins calls himself a "cultural Christian" now.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

business hammocks posted:

Dick Dorkins calls himself a "cultural Christian" now.

Ha, I did not know that, but if the Reddit Atheist Pope will go along to get along that sorta proves my thesis.

MizPiz
May 29, 2013

I have defended, and will continue to defend genocide

From CSPAM

an actual dog posted:

I’m Kind Of Into “The Handmaid’s Tale” Life TBH

quote:

I’m really into this show, but maybe not for the reasons you might think. While for many people, this show highlights the dangers of government regulation into women’s reproductive issues and religious liberties, for me, it emphasizes the life that could be. You see, as a new graduate, I’m constantly worried about everything from finding a job to how I’m going to pay down my credit card bill to deferring six figures’ worth of student loan payments. Add on top of that the pressure to find a husband and settle down, and it’s almost too much to bear. Thankfully, The Handmaid’s Tale presents an alternate future for me where all of my financial problems are taken care of, and I can live in peace while being taken care of by a rich, attractive man who I can still sleep with but am encouraged to avoid any commitment to whatsoever. Honestly, this world sounds like heaven.
it keeps getting better after that lol

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

MizPiz posted:

From CSPAM

it keeps getting better after that lol
[/quote]

Honestly I'm not surprised by this. There are people who would rather go through life with zero autonomy than be forced to make decisions and hold responsibilities.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

that cannot be real

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

A thought that's been occupying me as I think of the show:

Obviously Gilead is going at it very wrong, but how would you deal with a global infertility pandemic as a government the "right" way, starting with the basic assumptions:

(1) Continuity of the species at at least as close to replacement birth rate as you can manage is desirable; and indeed a paramount goal to avoid extinction or regression as a species
and
(2) Individual liberty, agency, and respect for affirmative consent have an incredibly high moral/ethical value and should be maintained

Spitballing an answer:
- Cash incentive for government-sponsored fertility testing. No obligation for individuals to act on this information, but it would allow citizens to seek out other fertile partners
- Significant stipend and benefits for having children. In addition to taking care of the basic needs there would be a regular cash award over and above maintenance of the kid
- Heavily subsidized and incentivized adoption for both the birth and adoptive families Like to the level of "well I don't like kids but if I have one and give it up that's enough to pay off my car note" or w/e

Basically making use of the carrot versus the stick.

I haven't thought these through all the way and maybe there are perverse incentives that would lead to a nightmare state in my dumb three-point plan, but it's an interesting thought experiment.

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer

In a future where 90-95% of the population becomes infertile, you're pretty much looking at end times. What's the point of listening to the government if the government won't be there in a generation? Same for the economy. It's total societal collapse.

Edit: even if the government took extraordinary measures to ensure the survival of the nation, you're still looking at gigantic economic shifts as workers age out of the workforce and there's only 1 worker to replace every 10. The global trade system contracts to a tiny fraction of a percentage of what it was.

And who's to say children born in this era fertile like their parents? Then you're looking at the end of mankind within a few generations.

Thwomp fucked around with this message at Jun 1, 2017 around 19:09

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

Thwomp posted:

In a future where 90-95% of the population becomes infertile, you're pretty much looking at end times. What's the point of listening to the government if the government won't be there in a generation? Same for the economy. It's total societal collapse.

It's attitudes like this that are going to make me declare martial law and set up forced conception camps.

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


Pac-Manioc Root posted:

that cannot be real

It really impeaches the journalistic integrity of totalsororitymove.com

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

Baron Porkface posted:

It really impeaches the journalistic integrity of totalsororitymove.com

I mean the author waxes about the benefits of guaranteed sex with a hot dude, but enjoying something that deliberately joyless and mechanistic would have to be a really particular kink.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Broken Cake

The human race was a giant mistake anyway, tbh. It's not really worth the effort of saving.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

business hammocks posted:

The human race was a giant mistake anyway, tbh. It's not really worth the effort of saving.

I don't disagree which is why I included the caveat for the thought experiment that we take the normie position that humanity continuing is good and cool.

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Detroit







College Slice

business hammocks posted:

The human race was a giant mistake anyway, tbh. It's not really worth the effort of saving.

The correct opinion.

Ubiquitous_
Nov 20, 2013


I haven't felt as connected to the show in the past couple episodes with their male-centric origin stories, moreso a problem this week than last. I just don't find Nick to be a strong character or the actor to be very talented. Admittedly, the entire brothel experience with June was horrifying. I wouldn't know how to process any of that in her position.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


Jesus that brothel was terrifying. That bit about them collecting women like ceo's, journalists, and professors made me feel sick. I can agree that it's getting pretty male centric, but I think they're just trying to give everyone an episode of development right now. I think it'll get better once we get a bit further in.

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011


I do appreciate the back story into Nick's and lucas' lives simply because I think it's worthwhile to also explore the damaging effects of a society like Gilead's on men and families.

also, speaking as a man, I found I could easily and readily emphasize with lucas' story - whereas with the other episodes I'm horrified, angry - but more like sympathetic but not empathetic, like an observer if you know what I mean. with the Lucas episode I could picture my place in the story (or prob just dead)

the nick centered one was like eh, okay, though.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Broken Cake

Skizzzer posted:

I do appreciate the back story into Nick's and lucas' lives simply because I think it's worthwhile to also explore the damaging effects of a society like Gilead's on men and families.

also, speaking as a man, I found I could easily and readily emphasize with lucas' story - whereas with the other episodes I'm horrified, angry - but more like sympathetic but not empathetic, like an observer if you know what I mean. with the Lucas episode I could picture my place in the story (or prob just dead)

the nick centered one was like eh, okay, though.

I've had similar revelations and it's always a very creepy thing to realize. It basically validates every argument ever made about diversity in storytelling and film production.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

I'm always skeptical of changes to the source material, but I do like how they are filling in the ambiguity of the book.

I've found it all pretty compelling so far - Nick's background, Luke's fate, Sons of Jacob, June and Luke's escape attempt etc. I do hope we get a similar treatment of Aunt Lydia and the daughter's new adopted life under the regime.

We've seen all the major plot points of the book almost and we have two episodes left I think. So maybe we'll see some of that this season. I'll spoiler the rest but what I'm thinking is:

next episode we'll have Serena finding lipstick on the blue coat. Maybe the music box gift is foreshadowing Serena feeling betrayed by Offred and reporting her.

Offred's narration seems more like an inner dialogue than a recorded account of what was happening, and another season is planned. So I doubt the season finale will be a future university lecture about the tapes but probably ends with Offred being taken away in a van fate unknown.

That gives us season 2 with Offred's escape, unrest and a purge in Gilead leading to the Commander's execution for harbouring Nick who aided Offred's escape, maybe some insight into the colonies, battlegrounds in Chicago and the south, etc.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Pac-Manioc Root posted:

Ha, I did not know that, but if the Reddit Atheist Pope will go along to get along that sorta proves my thesis.
I think in his case it's basically just a shallow justification for hating Muslims.

Ubiquitous_ posted:

I haven't felt as connected to the show in the past couple episodes with their male-centric origin stories, moreso a problem this week than last. I just don't find Nick to be a strong character or the actor to be very talented.
The big problem with Nick's background is that it didn't really illuminate anything. I still don't know if he's a true believer or just going along with it. I don't really know what his situation was like before. He seems to have had the same job since right at the beginning, except that now he's also a spy. He's just a really shallow, uninteresting character.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk! Clunk! Clunk!



MizPiz posted:

From CSPAM

it keeps getting better after that lol


Tonight while watching the new episode I was thinking "there has to be some shitlords out there enjoying this for all the wrong reasons" but this is not what I imagined.

jfood
Jan 21, 2015


Tiggum posted:

The big problem with Nick's background is that it didn't really illuminate anything. I still don't know if he's a true believer or just going along with it. I don't really know what his situation was like before. He seems to have had the same job since right at the beginning, except that now he's also a spy. He's just a really shallow, uninteresting character.

He's a shallow, uninteresting person. That's exactly what the flashback showed. He's not particularly motivated, but easily manipulated. He's just a life-long loser, the same type of shithead who becomes a klansmen or a brownshirt. I seriously doubt there was anything interesting or nuanced about the lives Cletus 'the knight' or Otto the gate guard at Treblinka, just your average, everyday fucksticks who are content to look at the cash and the sense of 'meaning' it gives or gave to their empty lives, not the hatemachine it spits out of.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


jfood posted:

He's a shallow, uninteresting person. That's exactly what the flashback showed. He's not particularly motivated, but easily manipulated. He's just a life-long loser, the same type of shithead who becomes a klansmen or a brownshirt. I seriously doubt there was anything interesting or nuanced about the lives Cletus 'the knight' or Otto the gate guard at Treblinka, just your average, everyday fucksticks who are content to look at the cash and the sense of 'meaning' it gives or gave to their empty lives, not the hatemachine it spits out of.

I mean, sure, but we don't need a series of flashbacks to tell us that. It was already evident.

Jamais Vu Again
Sep 16, 2012

zebras can have spots too


Emily (formerly Ofglen) has proven fertility - she had her son. Moira has functioning ovaries, but has never grown a fetus to term.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

My posts are, not good

MizPiz posted:

From CSPAM

it keeps getting better after that lol
[/quote]

Eh, this reads like an attempt at satire from someone who doesn't understand what satire is?

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Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

Thwomp posted:

In a future where 90-95% of the population becomes infertile, you're pretty much looking at end times. What's the point of listening to the government if the government won't be there in a generation? Same for the economy. It's total societal collapse.

See: Children of Men.

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