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precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


BattyKiara posted:

What happens to wives when commanders die? Is there a special institution for venerable widows? Where they are expected to pray around the clock like nuns?

Game of Thrones doesn't start back until next month

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Rochallor
Apr 22, 2010


BattyKiara posted:

What happens to wives when commanders die? Is there a special institution for venerable widows? Where they are expected to pray around the clock like nuns? Maybe the Aunts are widows found to be especially strong believers? Or are widows more or less supposed to want to follow their husbands to the grave? I guess their children would be taken from them and placed with new commanders?

So Daniel was punished harshly because his wife wanted him to be? Meaning wives have a wee bit more power than I thought. But on the other hand, wouldn't Daniel take this out on his wife at the first opportunity?

Well, the wife only got what she wanted because the other dudes on the council generally agreed with her. If they had all been opportunists like Waterford, instead of true believes, he probably would have gotten off with a couple of Hail Marys or whatever they do in Gilead.

I'm not sure about widows, I don't remember anything about them in the book. It might be Gilead is still new enough that there's very few widows running around. But logic would dictate there's either some sort of retirement home type thing, or they just transition into being Marthas.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

Escobarbarian posted:

lol that Feeling Good scene felt really misguided. you're still surprise sex slaves with no agency but at least you didn't have to kill your friend! empowerment!

It was tremendously empowering because it was the first moment where the Handmaids realized the power they had through unity; Aunt Lydia could have ordered the Guardians to just shoot Offred or Ofglen in the head and by Gilead's rules probably should have, but she didn't because she understood how hosed up the entire scene was. That open defiance was not stopped. Sure, "there will be consequences" but it still happened. That's why it was so important, and most likely a callout to Season 2: Resist

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

succ posted:

is this a book spoiler? what conference?

The book ends with an epilogue describing an academic conference 200 years later discussing the events of the book. A good deal of background detail in the series (such as the Commander's name and how various parts of Gilead were established) is explained there.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously


That was a strong finale. Excellent first season. My thoughts:

I liked when Moira reached Ontario that the show didn't feel the need for a shocking swerve, like the farmer being a Gilead sleeper agent. I feel like Mr. Robot would have pulled nonsense like that.

Great to see that the Waterfords are high up in the leadership, but aren't untouchable and Gilead has real accountability for leaders who publically stray. My takeaway is that there is a major distinction between the cynical leadership of Gilead and a fanatical military.

For example, Putnam's abuse of Jeanine didn't concern the Waterfords and likely would have been ignored, except she made a huge scene on the bridge in front of the soldiers. Same with Waterford needing to hide June when taking her to Jezebels, and when June is being taken away at the end the soldiers don't seem scared of the Waterfords. And the Eyes (from what little we know) seem to be their own distinct agency. I hope they maintain this for season 2.

The show does an amazing job showing the Haidmaids are distinct and have their own identities. A more "by the numbers" show may have populated a scene with twenty generic women in red, but the show takes the time to show they all have histories (especially with the handwritten notes). Interesting subversion with the Handmaid who had such an awful life that being put with a somewhat decent Commander was a life improvement that she didn't want to give up.

Glad the show has strong pacing, and didn't feel the need to throw in a major character death for the finale or throw Gilead into revolt. Looking forward to season 2, hope they keep the same tone after this season was a hit.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

I worry that the show will fall off the rails now that they will be going beyond the source material. That said, season 1 was great and I would be satisfied with that ending if it was not continued.

Pleasing Shape
Jan 9, 2004

The Vitally Important Pelvic Thrust

I don't understand why June was given the notes from other handmaids asking for help. If the resistance is trying to get the notes out of Gilead, isn't the house of a high ranking commander the last place you'd want to hide them in? How is June supposed to smuggle them out anyway? Did I miss something?

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

Clarke has more acting talent in her brows than most other actors, including herself, have in their entire body.



Pleasing Shape posted:

I don't understand why June was given the notes from other handmaids asking for help. If the resistance is trying to get the notes out of Gilead, isn't the house of a high ranking commander the last place you'd want to hide them in? How is June supposed to smuggle them out anyway? Did I miss something?

I don't think you missed anything.

We're supposed to assume that for some reason it will be easier to deliver the parcel to its ultimate recipient from inside Gilead than from Jezebel's, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense but we don't really know how the Sons of Jacob state is set up and where neccesarily everything is.

Just to theorycraft, perhaps some collaborator within Gilead is awaiting the package, some high ranking man who can travel without being searched. Or otherwise perhaps the entire idea is to wait for another diplomatic visit.

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer

Pleasing Shape posted:

I don't understand why June was given the notes from other handmaids asking for help. If the resistance is trying to get the notes out of Gilead, isn't the house of a high ranking commander the last place you'd want to hide them in? How is June supposed to smuggle them out anyway? Did I miss something?

June was just supposed to pick up the package. Wasn't she also not supposed to look in it either?

We never got to see the next phase of what to do with it though. She never spoke again to the Handmaid who told her to get it.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

I was sincerely in suspense during the stoning scene as to whether June would comply to keep surviving or not. Very well done.

Alterian
Jan 28, 2003



Maybe the package was meant for the Handmaids to make them not feel so alone? Who can resist opening a mystery package?

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011


Lum_ posted:

It was tremendously empowering because it was the first moment where the Handmaids realized the power they had through unity; Aunt Lydia could have ordered the Guardians to just shoot Offred or Ofglen in the head and by Gilead's rules probably should have, but she didn't because she understood how hosed up the entire scene was. That open defiance was not stopped. Sure, "there will be consequences" but it still happened. That's why it was so important, and most likely a callout to Season 2: Resist

it was empowering but was just undercut by the inclusion of the song. i like the song but man did it take me out of the moment. whoever's doing the scoring is hopefully replaced for the next season.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

Skizzzer posted:

it was empowering but was just undercut by the inclusion of the song. i like the song but man did it take me out of the moment. whoever's doing the scoring is hopefully replaced for the next season.

I've always thought the jarring soundtrack was intentional. It highlights the absurdity of the whole situation.

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011


i would disagree because i don't think the setting is absurd, but if that's the point than i guess the scoring is working as intended.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009

Chakh'mah Mush'lam Echad Rak

Skizzzer posted:

i would disagree because i don't think the setting is absurd, but if that's the point than i guess the scoring is working as intended.

What about the setting isn't absurd?

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Detroit







College Slice

Skizzzer posted:

it was empowering but was just undercut by the inclusion of the song. i like the song but man did it take me out of the moment. whoever's doing the scoring is hopefully replaced for the next season.

I've heard Reed Morano and Bruce Miller are doing some kind of supervising of the sound design and editing so probably them.

There Bias Two posted:

What about the setting isn't absurd?

I mean it's essentially about WASP ISIS so it's probably not as far-fetched as it should be.

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer

Todd VanDerWerff at Vox surmises the score is meant to reflect Offred's internal feelings/emotions, not the overall situation.

That would make more sense of the ending of Episode 4 with the power walk, the power walk near the end of the finale, and her walk out of the house at the very end. She's just made a tiny stand in an oppressive climate which doesn't tolerate defiance of any kind so it feels triumphant even though the actual act is so minor.

mcbexx
Jul 4, 2004

British dentistry is
not on trial here!



"Oh man, I hate stonings."

ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

There Bias Two posted:

I've always thought the jarring soundtrack was intentional. It highlights the absurdity of the whole situation.

i can see it if they used one or two popular tracks as callbacks to life before Gillead, maybe crossfading over a memory/retrospective sequence, but it's in like every loving episode and really out-of-place for what is otherwise a very self-serious series

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



I thought the soundtrack was pretty effective at anchoring - a reminder that this is our society about five minutes in the future, and not just some abstract hosed up setting.

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011


There Bias Two posted:

What about the setting isn't absurd?

just off the top of my head, but 1) some kind of nuclear/environmental calamity affecting the world, 2) a fragmented USA, 3) canada as the great north hope, 4) a group of ultra-conservative white men deciding what rights, reproductive and otherwise, women should have, 5) an increase in religious belief, 6) women forced to wear certain types of clothing, 7) a revolution (or not sure what to call it) against the current political system, and maybe more that i can't think of right now.

fantastical, sure, but absurd? disagree.

Lacey
Jul 10, 2001

Guess where this lollipop's going?

Cactus posted:

I recall one bit where he was talking about the victims of the regime and said something with a tone like "they were educated - well, as "educated" as anyone in America could have been in the mid-1980s!" *chuckles echo from the audience* kind of thing.

It's a form of Juvenoia.
The professor seems more interested in Offred's commander than in Offred herself. And he also refers to women escaping to Canada as the "Underground Frailroad".

witchcore ricepunk
Jul 6, 2003

The Golden Witch
Who Solved the Epitaph


A Probability of 1/2,578,917


Saw this tweet and immediately thought of our sweet sweet Commander Fred.

witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at Jun 16, 2017 around 04:04

The Insect Court
Nov 22, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Lum_ posted:

The book ends with an epilogue describing an academic conference 200 years later discussing the events of the book. A good deal of background detail in the series (such as the Commander's name and how various parts of Gilead were established) is explained there.

I don't think the epilogue gives too much detail that the series didn't. The book doesn't reveal the commander's name until the epilogue and even then it's only speculated on, for example.

Lacey posted:

The professor seems more interested in Offred's commander than in Offred herself. And he also refers to women escaping to Canada as the "Underground Frailroad".

The professor in the epilogue also argues that the provenance of the story(which is described as having been found many years after the events recounted on a bunch of audio cassettes) is uncertain and that it could be a forgery or fabrication. It's a metatextual framing narrative that's not really possible in the medium of the show version, not to mention that the second season makes it impossible.

Motorola 68000
Apr 25, 2014

"Don't be nice. Be good."


I recently started the book and read about three chapters, which were quite short. I had no idea there was a series until I googled the title. Just got done with all the episodes and I have to say, episode three messed me up the most. You all know why.

I'm not sure if I should finish the book or wait for season 2.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

Skizzzer posted:

just off the top of my head, but 1) some kind of nuclear/environmental calamity affecting the world, 2) a fragmented USA, 3) canada as the great north hope, 4) a group of ultra-conservative white men deciding what rights, reproductive and otherwise, women should have, 5) an increase in religious belief, 6) women forced to wear certain types of clothing, 7) a revolution (or not sure what to call it) against the current political system, and maybe more that i can't think of right now.

fantastical, sure, but absurd? disagree.

Wait, you think #4 isn't going on right now?

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011


Dienes posted:

Wait, you think #4 isn't going on right now?

yeah of course I see it happening, literally saw a picture of it

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



Wizgot posted:

I recently started the book and read about three chapters, which were quite short. I had no idea there was a series until I googled the title. Just got done with all the episodes and I have to say, episode three messed me up the most. You all know why.

I'm not sure if I should finish the book or wait for season 2.

Season 1 finishes the story of the book, so you can just go ahead and read.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

JEG VILLE KLEMME DEG


Pinterest Mom posted:

I thought the soundtrack was pretty effective at anchoring - a reminder that this is our society about five minutes in the future, and not just some abstract hosed up setting.

It's Mike Pence's wet dream. Maybe he'd add horse loving.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

There Bias Two posted:

I worry that the show will fall off the rails now that they will be going beyond the source material. That said, season 1 was great and I would be satisfied with that ending if it was not continued.

There really isn't anything they added outside of the book that I had a problem with. Luke's escape, Nick's involvement in the Sons of Jacob, etc were pretty well done I thought.

I'm optimistic that the quality is maintained and we get to see firsthand a lot of the events that were only referred to in the epilogue.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

It was kind of sad when Mrs. Waterford brought up scrabble and the guy brings up the law and she says "I know, I helped write it." But she's terrible, so that wore off pretty quickly.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


Ultra Carp

Any Toronto/Ontario goons know where the stoning scene was shot? It looks familiar but I can't put my finger on it.

I loved every episode of this season and I think Atwood's input all but guarantees the second season will be great as well.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007


Ah man this was the Season Finale. gently caress...


In a way it ended how it should have. I know they want a 2nd season but really they should just not.

Hollismason fucked around with this message at Jun 16, 2017 around 04:17

MeinPanzer
Dec 19, 2004
anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

Thwomp posted:

Todd VanDerWerff at Vox surmises the score is meant to reflect Offred's internal feelings/emotions, not the overall situation.

That would make more sense of the ending of Episode 4 with the power walk, the power walk near the end of the finale, and her walk out of the house at the very end. She's just made a tiny stand in an oppressive climate which doesn't tolerate defiance of any kind so it feels triumphant even though the actual act is so minor.

This is obviously the case, but like with the voice over, I sometimes wish they could be a little less heavy handed. The show is blunt enough as-is most of the time, and I wish they could trust us and be a bit more subtle. A good example of using music to this kind of effect but more subtly is Mad Men, which often used closing credit songs to great effect.

BlackJosh
Sep 25, 2007


Hollismason posted:

Ah man this was the Season Finale. gently caress...


In a way it ended how it should have. I know they want a 2nd season but really they should just not.

Well you could just not watch the second season you weirdo. I don't get TVIVs obsession with ending shows as early as possible. I'd much rather see some new ideas than just one season of almost everything I've read before.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

Clarke has more acting talent in her brows than most other actors, including herself, have in their entire body.



BlackJosh posted:

Well you could just not watch the second season you weirdo. I don't get TVIVs obsession with ending shows as early as possible. I'd much rather see some new ideas than just one season of almost everything I've read before.

It's not that bizarre, did you never consume some form of media that was awesome to begin with but ultimately ended with a wet fart?

I mean, Game of Thrones aside... the second season of Unreal completely soured my perception of the show. It's not a big deal cause you can really just 'not watch' but we tend to judge works of art on the terms their creators present.

But anyway, I actually have high hopes for season 2.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


Ultra Carp

I just hope the whole second season isn't about getting June out, and they expand the scope of the show a little to depict what's going on outside of North America (or at least the US/Canada), even if it's only for an episode or two. I think it'd better drive home the desperation that leads to a Gilead rather than being told about it secondhand from the Mexican ambassador.

I don't remember if it was discussed in the book but does Canada have the same issues with the plummeting birth rate?

Motorola 68000
Apr 25, 2014

"Don't be nice. Be good."


I want to know more about the war, how congress was eliminated. Maybe they could do a whole season based on the plot to kill congress.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

Wizgot posted:

I recently started the book and read about three chapters, which were quite short. I had no idea there was a series until I googled the title. Just got done with all the episodes and I have to say, episode three messed me up the most. You all know why.

I'm not sure if I should finish the book or wait for season 2.

If you've seen the series, nothing in the book will be a spoiler as the first season and the book end at literally the same scene.

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Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Letters in the package make no sense except for the cheap emotional shot of listening to their words and seeing June spread them on the floor. And then she falls asleep with them all out like that? Come on, she knows she has to watch her back so hard.

The soundtrack is bad use of contemporary music and completely heavy handed.

Ofglen's Martha was vastly superior to anything else this season. I hope for next season they come to understand that the most powerful scenes are about the lack of autonomy and feelings of utter futility.

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