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flashy_mcflash posted:Any Toronto/Ontario goons know where the stoning scene was shot? It looks familiar but I can't put my finger on it. Coronation Park in Oakville, apparently.
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Jun 18, 2017 01:01
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Somebody said heavy-handed and that's absolutely the right word. V for Vendetta had a guy in a mask who wouldn't shut up and that was slightly more subtle than this.
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Jun 18, 2017 17:03
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Sometimes I think you absolutely need to be heavy-handed to make people understand that women are not baby-making machines:
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Jun 18, 2017 17:29
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Defenestration posted:The soundtrack is bad use of contemporary music and completely heavy handed. My issue with the soundtrack isn't the lyrics, I honestly don't pay attention. It is just after having a downer of an episode, these upbeat pop/rock songs really just seem to not fit the tone of the show. Honestly a nice instrumental piece or some classical music would suit most of these endings much better. For a very solid show, the use of music at the end of the episodes is the worst part.
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Jun 19, 2017 01:14
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It's pretty trendy to do that right now. I think Game of Thrones kind of started it. I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think it has worked for the most part in this show.
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Jun 19, 2017 04:52
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Pleasing Shape posted:I don't understand why June was given the notes from other handmaids asking for help. If the resistance is trying to get the notes out of Gilead, isn't the house of a high ranking commander the last place you'd want to hide them in? How is June supposed to smuggle them out anyway? Did I miss something? The show has both subtly and explicitly noted that Gilead is an extremely closed society and there is a lot of debate and rumor about how terrible things are inside it. The leaders of Gilead are anxious to convince the rest of the world that they are totally legitimate and cool guys, while the resistance is trying to expose that those guys are actually a bunch of cult-crazy fascists with a penchant for human rights abuses. The fact that Gilead is having trouble establishing trade partners, Canada has set up refugee centers within its borders and is paying for the well-being of refugees, and the interest of the Mexican diplomats into how the population truly lives are all indications of the international skepticism towards this new government. This show has been pretty good about weaving the individual stories of the characters within larger narratives. So given that, I think it's pretty safe to assume these notes were not meant for June. We know Mayday tries to keep its cells and contacts isolated, so it is not surprising she hasn't received instructions on what to do next. My assumption is that if she weren't taken away she'd have eventually received instructions from another source on where to drop the package, and it would ultimately make its way out of the country to provide ammo against Gilead's claims that everything is hunky-dory. Rita retrieving the package leaves us hanging about whether it will be destroyed or Rita will find a way to join the resistance too. An aside: during Luke's episode emphasis was placed on getting the ex-Handmaid out in particular. I think this is not just because of the danger she's in, but also because she provides valuable evidence as a first-person witness to the re-education camps and the brutal treatment of Handmaids.
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Jun 19, 2017 05:16
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I think "Feeling Good" was a pretty heavy-handed choice, but in general I don't see an issue with mixing contemporary music. This is a contemporary setting, after all.
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Jun 19, 2017 05:18
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holy poo poo what a gut punch (really liked the ending)
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Jun 19, 2017 06:15
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Would this be a good show to recommend to a femmenist?
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Jun 19, 2017 12:22
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Wizgot posted:Would this be a good show to recommend to a femmenist? I did and she's loved it. Although I was honestly a little surprised when she told me she'd never read the book considering she's also an English Lit PhD candidate.
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Jun 19, 2017 13:03
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veni veni veni posted:It's pretty trendy to do that right now. I think Game of Thrones kind of started it. I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think it has worked for the most part in this show. Chuck was doing it years before Thrones, and that show wasn't exactly a font of creativity. I'm sure it's an older practice than that.
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Jun 19, 2017 20:30
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"Why is this show set a few years from now using songs that we would recognize" has seriously got to be the most  complaint. Like, I get why people don't like the song choices (especially Jay Reatard) but what I don't get is why those who don't like it are trying to imply that it's somehow objectively bad. A lot of us liked the needle drops.
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Jun 19, 2017 20:33
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It's the 'Handmaid's Tale', people seem to forget. Maybe a Nina Simone or Tom Petty song that the Handmaid is familiar is representative of her state of mind/attitude at that point in the tale. Same as all the people aspergering over tactical realism of the coup or the economics of republic, it's not something June is really privy to and doesn't feature much in her tale.
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Jun 20, 2017 01:49
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the score on this show is, objectively, bad.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:23
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ex post facho posted:the score on this show is, objectively, bad. By what objective criteria?
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Jun 20, 2017 03:19
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Pocket Billiards posted:
Pitchfork article that's making some decent points about the score. http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1507-the-handmaids-tale-is-so-much-smarter-than-its-soundtrack/
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Jun 20, 2017 05:28
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Rochallor posted:I'm not sure about widows, I don't remember anything about them in the book. It might be Gilead is still new enough that there's very few widows running around. But logic would dictate there's either some sort of retirement home type thing, or they just transition into being Marthas. Defenestration posted:Letters in the package make no sense except for the cheap emotional shot of listening to their words and seeing June spread them on the floor. And then she falls asleep with them all out like that? Come on, she knows she has to watch her back so hard.
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Jun 20, 2017 09:15
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I don't think I'll be back for season 2
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Jun 20, 2017 11:22
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Pinterest Mom posted:Coronation Park in Oakville, apparently. Nice, thanks! I may be headed that way this weekend and might take a side trip, chuck a rock or two. Pocket Billiards posted:
While I tend to agree with this more often than not, all the Canada stuff, including Luke, is also not part of her tale at this point and certainly nothing she's privy to either. If they went out of their way to depict Canada's refugee/immigration policy (which I found too trite and rosy by half - "here's a health card and free money") they could depict more of the coup and the reactions to the plummeting birth rate in other countries.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:27
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flashy_mcflash posted:
Why? How this affects people personally is way more engaging than the political machinations.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:55
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I don't think the social services for refugees thing the Canadian representative explained was that "trite and rosy." That's how a normal developed country should work. It seemed like pretty basic humanitarian services to me-- it's just that Moira was used to outright exploitation or at best transactional quid-pro-quo for anything she got. The idea she'll get a tiny stipend to live, agency to do as she pleased and access to basic shelter and healthcare just for being a human worthy of basic dignity was a tremendous juxtaposition to her life in Gilead. Now, how Canada remained a, more or less "normal developed" country when we know Mexico and the US are just disasters is certainly an unanswered question, but it invites any number of reasonably plausible explanations. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 16:24
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:
The most likely explanation: Canada was more or less "normal developed" allready which made it easier to deal with the crisis.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:36
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When poo poo hit the fan, nobody bothered to invade or claim Canada, so they came out smelling of roses. Nobody expects Canada!
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Jun 20, 2017 18:27
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I want to know what the heck happened to the military.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:38
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veni veni veni posted:I want to know what the heck happened to the military. Just a guess: those who didn't defect joined with the Sons of Jacob, they were probably promised fertile women and high-ranking positions.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:43
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I assume at least some of the military was demobilized "legally" by government during the months while the country was limbo. Otherwise, I guess the reason Alaska and Hawaii stayed loyal was because there was such a high concentration of military forces in both states versus the local population. Also, I guess the Pacific Fleet also maybe have simply refused to go along with what was happening on the mainland. Also, if the US still has Alaska/Hawaii it (probably) means both sides have nukes, so at this point it is a standoff. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 19:58
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veni veni veni posted:I want to know what the heck happened to the military. Well, there was a war. Presumably most of the military stayed loyal to Gilead, which would probably nominally be the legal government, while some units (including the majority of Hawaiian and Alaskan troops) stayed loyal and fought. I think there's some implication that nukes were used? It's not super clear.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:05
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Ardennes posted:I assume at least some of the military was demobilized "legally" by government during the months while the country was limbo. Otherwise, I guess the reason Alaska and Hawaii stayed loyal was because there was such a high concentration of military forces in both states versus the local population. Also, I guess the Pacific Fleet also maybe have simply refused to go along with what was happening on the mainland. I'm relatively sure the Pacific Fleet was in fact specifically mentioned, yeah.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:56
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veni veni veni posted:I want to know what the heck happened to the military. Other speculative explanations so far are good, but I'd add that the willingness of the Sons of Jacob to commit atrocities and hang bodies in the streets to quell resistance would give them a slight edge over any remaining U.S. forces who have sworn to defend the Constitution and who remain loyal to those ideals. We've seen the US. military struggle to suppress insurgencies overseas — what happens when the insurgency is at home and knows the land and its customs just as well as any National Guard unit?
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Jun 20, 2017 21:33
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Seems to me they took over the scary way, not outright revolution in the streets but a combination of legislative chipping and popular support. Women lost their right to work and own property, then they lost their right to be free altogether, probably over a period of time while a glorified banana republic passed the necessary laws to transform it from USA to Gilead under the guise of doing what was necessary to keep the country going after the ~mighty tragedy~ that was some totally unrelated terrorists killing all of Congress.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:53
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I mean look at how much has happened as a result of 9/11 and tell me that poo poo wouldn't completely hit the fan as a result of a major terrorist attack like the one in the show.
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Jun 21, 2017 09:32
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I just watched all of this and I think it was great. It's an immensely relevant show that also complements Elisabeth Moss' Mad Men role really well. This show's more terrifying than just about anything on TV and it doesn't even feel far fetched. The episode where they showed women losing the right to work and the population essentially going along with it (besides a few riots) because it's "temporary", was more upsetting than some of the outright violence since it seemed so plausible.
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Jun 22, 2017 00:28
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Yeah. I thought that was the best episode because it felt so real. In general my favorite part of the show was the flashbacks to when things started going to poo poo.
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Jun 22, 2017 00:32
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I got the impression that at this point in the story there were still a lot of questions from the rest of the world about what was really going on in Gilead. Imagine the real-world reaction to a new government established via a mix of subverting the existing government and armed rebellion--most countries (including the USA) would be pretty drat skeptical. Not only because of possible human rights violations, but concerns about both regional and economic stability. We know that rumors about the brutality of Gilead's system is making its way outside. Canada wouldn't be setting up those massive refugee centers if they thought everything was hunky-dory, and that's why the Mexican ambassador was so interested in the quality of life for the Handmaids and others. It would be a lot easier to make the argument to trade Handmaids if they were happy and not stripped of their rights and facing constant physical and sexual abuse. The desire for international approval and the trade partners that would result from it is one of the reasons Gilead is so closed off and why Waterford & Co were so invested in putting on the Happy Happy Dog-and-Pony Show for the Mexican delegation. Which is also why the resistance put its priority on smuggling out Handmaidens (as we saw in Luke's episode) and why the secret package was a bunch of letters from Handmaidens detailing their abuse and desire for freedom. It's not a pick-me-up for June. It's a political tool that's almost certainly supposed to get smuggled out of the country and used as part of the argument they're making that Gilead is too abusive and unstable to become an accepted member of the international community. June is just one stop along the railroad. I also thought that it was dumb for June to open the package and contrived that she got away with not bundling up the letters immediately, but that's a pretty small detail in an otherwise excellent series.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:33
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flashy_mcflash posted:Nice, thanks! I may be headed that way this weekend and might take a side trip, chuck a rock or two. It's trite and rosy to us because we're used to a government that despite having plenty of money, only takes more and more every year and treats immigrants like poo poo. That's part of the point.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:31
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Seriously. It would not be realistic for them to depict Canada treating English-speaking refugees from the Gilead like poo poo. If swaths and swaths of private Canadian citizens started a political movement centered on opening up their homes to primarily Muslim, Arabic-speaking refugees from Syria, they sure as hell are going to be welcoming to refugees of a country that was their closest economic, geographic, and personal ally and is also mostly English-speaking people inculcated in a culture with similar Judeo-Christian and European ties. If they wanted to show struggling refugees left to survive on their own then they'd have to show them escaping by sea. Or maybe to Mexico, though it's debatable whether Mexico would treat refugees from the former USA the same way they treat refugees from Central and South America.
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Jun 23, 2017 20:22
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ATP5G1 posted:I think "Feeling Good" was a pretty heavy-handed choice, but in general I don't see an issue with mixing contemporary music. This is a contemporary setting, after all. I don't have a problem with using contemporary music but I laughed out loud at that scene. The show can show the soul crushing despair that comes with compromising yourself in a hopeless situation but then they undermine that with really overt "rebellious badass girl power" moments? It's just weird and weakens the significance of the scenes that actually hit. I'd expect this show to be heavy handed but the overuse of slow motion and other framing devices that basically yell "PAY ATTENTION HERE VIEWER" suggests that they don't really have any faith in the audience to figure things out on their own, so everything has to be oversold (I think a lot of current prestige TV does this, FWIW). The producers are probably weeping with gratitude that Trump won, this show will run as long as he's in office.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:29
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If your argument against something is predicated on the assumption that the people making the show think the people watching the show are stupid, you might want to rethink how you came to that conclusion.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:37
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I don't think the showrunners assume that the audience are stupid, rather that they're doing the absolute most to ensure that the audience takes away one specific message (based on the scene or storyline), which seems a bit egregious and unnecessary given the source material and themes at hand here. They're also pretty inconsistent with how strictly Offred is held to the handmaid rules inside or outside the Waterford residence but that just might be sloppy mistakes or things done for plot convenience.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:59
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:They're also pretty inconsistent with how strictly Offred is held to the handmaid rules inside or outside the Waterford residence but that just might be sloppy mistakes or things done for plot convenience. I don't think that's an inconsistency. There are people who lead perfectly fine and satisfactory lives in North Korea or other countries ruled by dictators. The rules for the general population aren't necessarily enforced on the higher ups and the Waterfords are pretty high up there (though it doesn't seem like they're the highest)./
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Jun 24, 2017 01:15
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