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Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



flashy_mcflash posted:

Any Toronto/Ontario goons know where the stoning scene was shot? It looks familiar but I can't put my finger on it.

I loved every episode of this season and I think Atwood's input all but guarantees the second season will be great as well.

Coronation Park in Oakville, apparently.

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Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



Somebody said heavy-handed and that's absolutely the right word. V for Vendetta had a guy in a mask who wouldn't shut up and that was slightly more subtle than this.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011

Just bring your ass to where they got me
So you can feel the hand of the dead body

Sometimes I think you absolutely need to be heavy-handed to make people understand that women are not baby-making machines:

notthegoatseguy
Sep 6, 2005
I'm a petty asshole

Defenestration posted:

The soundtrack is bad use of contemporary music and completely heavy handed.

My issue with the soundtrack isn't the lyrics, I honestly don't pay attention. It is just after having a downer of an episode, these upbeat pop/rock songs really just seem to not fit the tone of the show. Honestly a nice instrumental piece or some classical music would suit most of these endings much better. For a very solid show, the use of music at the end of the episodes is the worst part.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk Clunk Clunk clunk


It's pretty trendy to do that right now. I think Game of Thrones kind of started it. I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think it has worked for the most part in this show.

ATP5G1
Jun 22, 2005


Fun Shoe

Pleasing Shape posted:

I don't understand why June was given the notes from other handmaids asking for help. If the resistance is trying to get the notes out of Gilead, isn't the house of a high ranking commander the last place you'd want to hide them in? How is June supposed to smuggle them out anyway? Did I miss something?

The show has both subtly and explicitly noted that Gilead is an extremely closed society and there is a lot of debate and rumor about how terrible things are inside it. The leaders of Gilead are anxious to convince the rest of the world that they are totally legitimate and cool guys, while the resistance is trying to expose that those guys are actually a bunch of cult-crazy fascists with a penchant for human rights abuses. The fact that Gilead is having trouble establishing trade partners, Canada has set up refugee centers within its borders and is paying for the well-being of refugees, and the interest of the Mexican diplomats into how the population truly lives are all indications of the international skepticism towards this new government.

This show has been pretty good about weaving the individual stories of the characters within larger narratives. So given that, I think it's pretty safe to assume these notes were not meant for June. We know Mayday tries to keep its cells and contacts isolated, so it is not surprising she hasn't received instructions on what to do next. My assumption is that if she weren't taken away she'd have eventually received instructions from another source on where to drop the package, and it would ultimately make its way out of the country to provide ammo against Gilead's claims that everything is hunky-dory. Rita retrieving the package leaves us hanging about whether it will be destroyed or Rita will find a way to join the resistance too.

An aside: during Luke's episode emphasis was placed on getting the ex-Handmaid out in particular. I think this is not just because of the danger she's in, but also because she provides valuable evidence as a first-person witness to the re-education camps and the brutal treatment of Handmaids.

ATP5G1
Jun 22, 2005


Fun Shoe

I think "Feeling Good" was a pretty heavy-handed choice, but in general I don't see an issue with mixing contemporary music. This is a contemporary setting, after all.

dead comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


holy poo poo what a gut punch

(really liked the ending)

Wizgot
Apr 25, 2014

I said chocolate chip


Would this be a good show to recommend to a femmenist?

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Detroit





College Slice

Wizgot posted:

Would this be a good show to recommend to a femmenist?

I did and she's loved it. Although I was honestly a little surprised when she told me she'd never read the book considering she's also an English Lit PhD candidate.

Die Sexmonster!
Nov 30, 2005

You don't belong in this world!

veni veni veni posted:

It's pretty trendy to do that right now. I think Game of Thrones kind of started it. I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think it has worked for the most part in this show.

Chuck was doing it years before Thrones, and that show wasn't exactly a font of creativity. I'm sure it's an older practice than that.

precision
May 7, 2006

Would you like to challenge?


"Why is this show set a few years from now using songs that we would recognize" has seriously got to be the most complaint. Like, I get why people don't like the song choices (especially Jay Reatard) but what I don't get is why those who don't like it are trying to imply that it's somehow objectively bad. A lot of us liked the needle drops.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

It's the 'Handmaid's Tale', people seem to forget.

Maybe a Nina Simone or Tom Petty song that the Handmaid is familiar is representative of her state of mind/attitude at that point in the tale.

Same as all the people aspergering over tactical realism of the coup or the economics of republic, it's not something June is really privy to and doesn't feature much in her tale.

ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

the score on this show is, objectively, bad.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009



ex post facho posted:

the score on this show is, objectively, bad.

By what objective criteria?

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Pocket Billiards posted:



Maybe a Nina Simone or Tom Petty song that the Handmaid is familiar is representative of her state of mind/attitude at that point in the tale.

The point is that I shouldn't need a song that literally says "I'm feeling good" to discern the mood of June after that stoning scene. "you don't own me" is another case of the lyrics being so on the nose when the music makes no aesthetic sense

Pitchfork article that's making some decent points about the score.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1507-...its-soundtrack/

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007

Mary Worth had an illicit affair with Refurb and kidnapped Sophie when she learned the truth. Little did Sophie know, but she was held in Apartment 3G under the watchful eye of The Phantom until Dick Tracy rescued her. Meanwhile, in spite of everything, Working Daze still sucked.


Rochallor posted:

I'm not sure about widows, I don't remember anything about them in the book. It might be Gilead is still new enough that there's very few widows running around. But logic would dictate there's either some sort of retirement home type thing, or they just transition into being Marthas.
Going by the old testament, they'd probably have to marry their husband's closest male relative or something like that.

Defenestration posted:

Letters in the package make no sense except for the cheap emotional shot of listening to their words and seeing June spread them on the floor. And then she falls asleep with them all out like that? Come on, she knows she has to watch her back so hard.
That scene annoyed me. I get that she'd have that instant emotional reaction to want to see them all, but wouldn't the very next reaction be panic, like "oh poo poo I have to hide these"?

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



College Slice

I don't think I'll be back for season 2

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...



Nice, thanks! I may be headed that way this weekend and might take a side trip, chuck a rock or two.

Pocket Billiards posted:


Same as all the people aspergering over tactical realism of the coup or the economics of republic, it's not something June is really privy to and doesn't feature much in her tale.

While I tend to agree with this more often than not, all the Canada stuff, including Luke, is also not part of her tale at this point and certainly nothing she's privy to either. If they went out of their way to depict Canada's refugee/immigration policy (which I found too trite and rosy by half - "here's a health card and free money") they could depict more of the coup and the reactions to the plummeting birth rate in other countries.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011

Just bring your ass to where they got me
So you can feel the hand of the dead body

flashy_mcflash posted:


While I tend to agree with this more often than not, all the Canada stuff, including Luke, is also not part of her tale at this point and certainly nothing she's privy to either. If they went out of their way to depict Canada's refugee/immigration policy (which I found too trite and rosy by half - "here's a health card and free money") they could depict more of the coup and the reactions to the plummeting birth rate in other countries.

Why? How this affects people personally is way more engaging than the political machinations.

Pac-Manioc Root
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

I don't think the social services for refugees thing the Canadian representative explained was that "trite and rosy." That's how a normal developed country should work. It seemed like pretty basic humanitarian services to me-- it's just that Moira was used to outright exploitation or at best transactional quid-pro-quo for anything she got. The idea she'll get a tiny stipend to live, agency to do as she pleased and access to basic shelter and healthcare just for being a human worthy of basic dignity was a tremendous juxtaposition to her life in Gilead.

Now, how Canada remained a, more or less "normal developed" country when we know Mexico and the US are just disasters is certainly an unanswered question, but it invites any number of reasonably plausible explanations.

Pac-Manioc Root fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2017 around 17:30

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011

Just bring your ass to where they got me
So you can feel the hand of the dead body

Pac-Manioc Root posted:


Now, how Canada remained a, more or less "normal developed" country when we know Mexico and the US are just disasters is certainly an unanswered question, but it invites any number of reasonably plausible explanations.

The most likely explanation: Canada was more or less "normal developed" allready which made it easier to deal with the crisis.

precision
May 7, 2006

Would you like to challenge?


When poo poo hit the fan, nobody bothered to invade or claim Canada, so they came out smelling of roses.

Nobody expects Canada!

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk Clunk Clunk clunk


I want to know what the heck happened to the military.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011


veni veni veni posted:

I want to know what the heck happened to the military.

Just a guess: those who didn't defect joined with the Sons of Jacob, they were probably promised fertile women and high-ranking positions.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

It will always be about people.


I assume at least some of the military was demobilized "legally" by government during the months while the country was limbo. Otherwise, I guess the reason Alaska and Hawaii stayed loyal was because there was such a high concentration of military forces in both states versus the local population. Also, I guess the Pacific Fleet also maybe have simply refused to go along with what was happening on the mainland.

Also, if the US still has Alaska/Hawaii it (probably) means both sides have nukes, so at this point it is a standoff.

Ardennes fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2017 around 19:06

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



veni veni veni posted:

I want to know what the heck happened to the military.

Well, there was a war. Presumably most of the military stayed loyal to Gilead, which would probably nominally be the legal government, while some units (including the majority of Hawaiian and Alaskan troops) stayed loyal and fought.

I think there's some implication that nukes were used? It's not super clear.

precision
May 7, 2006

Would you like to challenge?


Ardennes posted:

I assume at least some of the military was demobilized "legally" by government during the months while the country was limbo. Otherwise, I guess the reason Alaska and Hawaii stayed loyal was because there was such a high concentration of military forces in both states versus the local population. Also, I guess the Pacific Fleet also maybe have simply refused to go along with what was happening on the mainland.

I'm relatively sure the Pacific Fleet was in fact specifically mentioned, yeah.

DasNeonLicht
Dec 25, 2005

"...and the light is on and burning brightly for the masses."

veni veni veni posted:

I want to know what the heck happened to the military.

Other speculative explanations so far are good, but I'd add that the willingness of the Sons of Jacob to commit atrocities and hang bodies in the streets to quell resistance would give them a slight edge over any remaining U.S. forces who have sworn to defend the Constitution and who remain loyal to those ideals. We've seen the US. military struggle to suppress insurgencies overseas what happens when the insurgency is at home and knows the land and its customs just as well as any National Guard unit?

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Detroit





College Slice

Seems to me they took over the scary way, not outright revolution in the streets but a combination of legislative chipping and popular support. Women lost their right to work and own property, then they lost their right to be free altogether, probably over a period of time while a glorified banana republic passed the necessary laws to transform it from USA to Gilead under the guise of doing what was necessary to keep the country going after the ~mighty tragedy~ that was some totally unrelated terrorists killing all of Congress.

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


I mean look at how much has happened as a result of 9/11 and tell me that poo poo wouldn't completely hit the fan as a result of a major terrorist attack like the one in the show.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011

Nellie has blown them all away.



I just watched all of this and I think it was great. It's an immensely relevant show that also complements Elisabeth Moss' Mad Men role really well. This show's more terrifying than just about anything on TV and it doesn't even feel far fetched. The episode where they showed women losing the right to work and the population essentially going along with it (besides a few riots) because it's "temporary", was more upsetting than some of the outright violence since it seemed so plausible.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk Clunk Clunk clunk


Yeah. I thought that was the best episode because it felt so real. In general my favorite part of the show was the flashbacks to when things started going to poo poo.

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ATP5G1
Jun 22, 2005


Fun Shoe

I got the impression that at this point in the story there were still a lot of questions from the rest of the world about what was really going on in Gilead. Imagine the real-world reaction to a new government established via a mix of subverting the existing government and armed rebellion--most countries (including the USA) would be pretty drat skeptical. Not only because of possible human rights violations, but concerns about both regional and economic stability.

We know that rumors about the brutality of Gilead's system is making its way outside. Canada wouldn't be setting up those massive refugee centers if they thought everything was hunky-dory, and that's why the Mexican ambassador was so interested in the quality of life for the Handmaids and others. It would be a lot easier to make the argument to trade Handmaids if they were happy and not stripped of their rights and facing constant physical and sexual abuse.

The desire for international approval and the trade partners that would result from it is one of the reasons Gilead is so closed off and why Waterford & Co were so invested in putting on the Happy Happy Dog-and-Pony Show for the Mexican delegation. Which is also why the resistance put its priority on smuggling out Handmaidens (as we saw in Luke's episode) and why the secret package was a bunch of letters from Handmaidens detailing their abuse and desire for freedom. It's not a pick-me-up for June. It's a political tool that's almost certainly supposed to get smuggled out of the country and used as part of the argument they're making that Gilead is too abusive and unstable to become an accepted member of the international community. June is just one stop along the railroad. I also thought that it was dumb for June to open the package and contrived that she got away with not bundling up the letters immediately, but that's a pretty small detail in an otherwise excellent series.

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