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Ballz
Dec 16, 2003

it's mario time



veni veni veni posted:

Was that guy she ran over a man or a watermelon?

Cars do strange things to people when they run over them.

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Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

phosdex posted:

Are we supposed to know what happened to Ofglen? Or is that something that is going to be explained later. Because right now I'm going under the assumption it has to do with female circumcision.

It's fairly clear contextually. 'Woman valued only as breeding stock wakes up with bloody bandages around her genitals in a hospital in totalitarian fundamentalist regime and told she can't want what she can't have now' reads very clearly as 'fgm'.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005



Loomer posted:

It's fairly clear contextually. 'Woman valued only as breeding stock wakes up with bloody bandages around her genitals in a hospital in totalitarian fundamentalist regime and told she can't want what she can't have now' reads very clearly as 'fgm'.

Well yeah but this is also some alternate history/future and I wasn't sure if there was something else going on that would be divulged later.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk! Clunk! Clunk! Clunk!



It's unquestionably FGM.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

phosdex posted:

Well yeah but this is also some alternate history/future and I wasn't sure if there was something else going on that would be divulged later.

I doubt it. The series, like the book, is meant to call to mind contemporary abuses and issues. Having it be some bizarre sci-fi gibberish would defeat the purpose.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005



Ok, I just wasn't sure if it was supposed to be what was implied or if there was supposed to be a mystery to it I guess?

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.

phosdex posted:

Ok, I just wasn't sure if it was supposed to be what was implied or if there was supposed to be a mystery to it I guess?

Uh, I don't really see how the show showing Ofglen's unsettling aftermath in episode 3 and then The Commander explicitly spelling it out in this week's episode without screaming "Hey, we mutilated her genitals because she's an evil lesbian!!!!" implies some kind of mystery. I'm not sure what more you wanted after all of that because Ofglen went out with a bang and then some. This show's already disturbing enough.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005



Thanks for your opinion.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

Was Ofglens trial and fgm explicitly after her replacement? I thought it was a flashback.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

Pocket Billiards posted:

Was Ofglens trial and fgm explicitly after her replacement? I thought it was a flashback.

I can't see how it could be construed as anything but post-exposure.

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer

Pocket Billiards posted:

Was Ofglens trial and fgm explicitly after her replacement? I thought it was a flashback.

Wait what? I don't see how you can view it as anything but chronological.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



College Slice

What is technology like in this show? Sometimes it seems that they don't even have indoor lights, but the scene with Ofglen looks very sci fi

neongrey
Feb 28, 2007

Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

It's a fifteen minutes into the future deal. I think the book literally happened in like the early 2000s or late 90s.

Pac-Manioc Root
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.

Yeah. The blown out antiseptic whiteness of the FGM clinic was probably a stylistic choice to communicate a subjective experience.

I definitely don't get a vibe that it's telling a story about novel technology whatsoever.

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer

The Commander has a laptop and regular reports from the outside so it's not like everything has reverted to 17th century tech. The state just controls everything so only the privileged get some niceties.

It's like North Korea: US edition.

precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


Yeah the only technological purge seems to be burning books so that women can't read.

I got a slight chuckle out of the "it's all over the Internet" line, mostly because it gives the viewer hope - this little hosed up place is Not The Whole World.

Big Bug Hug
Nov 19, 2002
I'm with stupid*

The dim lights and little use of technology is more for the whole "return to traditional values" thing I think. In the book they have a tv in the Waterford's house, though it's rarely used.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

Thwomp posted:

Wait what? I don't see how you can view it as anything but chronological.

To be clear, I'm not trying to argue that it isn't, just explaining why I found myself second guessing it at the time of watching.

It's probably mostly to do with the impressions I had going into the episode.

I scanned through a synopsis of the episode before watching it. For whatever reason it mentioned that the first appearance of Ofglen in that episode was ambiguous about whether it was flashback or chronological.

I guess Ofglen had mentioned being a lesbian, but I just assumed it was her involvement with Mayday that would lead to her downfall like the book.

I think it was in the birthmobile conversation that Ofglen mentioned being a 'gender-traitor' and that she was spared because she was fertile. So if the trial in episode 3 was current, this would be the second time such a judgement had been given. It is was a flashback, then this 'redemption' wouldn't only be the FGM but also the posting as Glen's handmaiden.

Like I said, I'm not arguing for it. Just thinking that maybe I missed something that would make it explicitly chronological like maybe some mention of a current lesbian relationship with a Martha.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell

Well, the episode she gets disappeared in we're told that is exactly what's been going on - she's been intimate with one of the Marthas at Glen's house.

jfood
Jan 21, 2015


There's really nothing more beautiful than pointless defiance. Kinda sad Emily didn't go out in a reign of bullets though, probably would have been much more merciful.

Mistikman
Jan 21, 2001

I was born ready. I'm Ron Fucking Swanson.

Ubiquitous_ posted:

Yep. She underwent female genital mutilation. I call it mutilation because men who get circumcized can still, with some exceptions, live a healthy life. FGM is primarily meant to turn women into brood mares who cannot enjoy sex again.

If male circumcision was like female circumcision, then they would be removing the entire head of your dick.


Also, it's strange how many people seem to talk about how ridiculous and impossible the show is, but all you need to do is look at Afghanistan to see a real life modern occurrence of a religious group completely usurping power and regressing their culture hundreds of years.

FourLeaf
Dec 2, 2011


I get what they were going for with Emily's last act of defiance, but the execution had issues. Lots of people standing around awkwardly, not reacting naturally, etc. That scene really needed some snappier editing/blocking.

Mistikman posted:

Also, it's strange how many people seem to talk about how ridiculous and impossible the show is, but all you need to do is look at Afghanistan to see a real life modern occurrence of a religious group completely usurping power and regressing their culture hundreds of years.

Yup. Or the whole hanging gay people from cranes thing. That's straight out of Iran.

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


Invalidating the uncomfortable message of a work of fiction by attacking the realism of a work of fiction?

Sounds a lot like Reification to me.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

It will always be about people.


Big Bug Hug posted:

The dim lights and little use of technology is more for the whole "return to traditional values" thing I think. In the book they have a tv in the Waterford's house, though it's rarely used.

I think the message is that technology exists but it is very selectively used. In a society where there are only a handful of births, a birth should be happening in one of the best facilities under their control...instead it happens in a house. We know they control hospitals that are well equipped but they voluntarily refuse to utilize it. Offred also mentions the Marthas have to hand make bread for aesthetic reasons. In comparison, I am sure only commanders actually have clearance to use the internet.

That said, I am sure it is also a society where very little research is done in terms of anything "ify" like biology.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005




Yes, the most glaring example being the complete lack of assisted reproductive medicine in the midst of an infertility pandemic. Because that conflicts with "traditional values".

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


I'm surprised the wives are allowed relatively modern clothes. I would think they would be bundled up like all the other women. For some reason it seems out of place that the wives are allowed to walk around without any kind of headdress. Wouldn't they too be bound by the new modesty laws?

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


BattyKiara posted:

I'm surprised the wives are allowed relatively modern clothes. I would think they would be bundled up like all the other women. For some reason it seems out of place that the wives are allowed to walk around without any kind of headdress. Wouldn't they too be bound by the new modesty laws?

If the men have absolute power in their household, they would be banging every woman in their household, properly, and woe be to any who complained. Including the wives. Blessed are the meek.

I guess it's just part of the nature of the show. They control how they think, with the words they use, the clothes they wear and the rituals they must observe. All the wives wear the exact same outfit, with the exact same colour, no variation or individuality.


Just thinking about that last scene, Nick is going to get the 3 bells treatment, probably in the last episode, with June (heavily pregnant) watching on. Speculation from me, and a serious deviation from the book opening up the second season. Unless he is a triple agent playing the long game. Doesn't Fred get purged?

Collateral fucked around with this message at May 12, 2017 around 14:59

Poppyseed Poundcake
Feb 23, 2007


I bet they could solve the whole pregnancy issue if they used a gangbang methodology

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk! Clunk! Clunk! Clunk!



I think that's how they did it in the Handmaids Tail

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



College Slice

I don't think the math on that one would hold up, aren't most men sterile and best and mutant producing at worst?

tetrapyloctomy
Feb 18, 2003

Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.

Hollismason posted:

That was the most tense sex scene I have ever seen and not in a sexy way. It was just really intense. I think it was because of the music because I kept expecting someone to burst in with guns.
At least it wasn't Massive Attack's "Angel." She's so petrified she doesn't even notice the bodies of two Aunts lying on the ground with bullet holes in their heads. Then she's whisked away in a car. It's a big party with lots of noise, lots of people coming and going, and it's a half hour before someone says, "Hey, where's Offred?" Another fifteen minutes before the first phone call. It's another hour and a half before anyone even thinks to shut down the airports! And now we're off to the races!

WeAreTheRomans
Feb 23, 2010

ram
the
manparts


If Martin sheen cameoed as Junes dad in flashback I would be so happy

Big Bug Hug
Nov 19, 2002
I'm with stupid*

BattyKiara posted:

I'm surprised the wives are allowed relatively modern clothes. I would think they would be bundled up like all the other women. For some reason it seems out of place that the wives are allowed to walk around without any kind of headdress. Wouldn't they too be bound by the new modesty laws?

I suppose that's where the line was drawn. The wives are not expected to be "empty vessels waiting to be filled" (a line I just caught in my reread), devoid of personality and desires like the Handmaids are.

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012


I hope they get into Mrs. Waterford's background as a TV personality , I remember finding her character fascinating when I read the book. She was a Tammy Far Baker/Phyllis Schafly type who went on TV and railed against feminism, orthodox control,etc. It would be great if they updated her into being like Megan Kelley or Tomi Lauren,someone who championed against women's rights for those sweet evangelical dollars that'll only too help set up their own subjugation.

precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


I imagine season 1 will end where the book does (sans epilogue) and season 2 will be about June joining Mayday, with the probable reveal that Nick is definitely a double agent, and even possibly including some help from Mrs. Waterford

DasNeonLicht
Dec 25, 2005

"...and the light is on and burning brightly for the masses."

I caught up on the series this past week after finishing the book. With the book, I think I was expecting some deeper resolution or more profound insight, but I definitely appreciated the themes and message. I probably just need to read more of what's being written about the story I've never been the best at analysis. I'm really glad the book has been made into a TV series, and I'm glad it's well-received so far. I'm also a huge Elisabeth Moss fan, so it's nice to see her in the limelight.

Just a couple of my favorite things so far

First, the sinister depiction of the kangaroo court in E3, and the positively Orwellian language of the sentence, "You are hereby sentenced to the common mercy of the state." I was curious about the term "common mercy," so I looked it up. It may have just been an invention of the writers, but I found a book from 1762 with the long title Plain Truth: By which it is manifest, that the common mercy of God extends to all men, so as to give them the pardon of original sin but the special grace of God to His elect, appears in His giving them the pardon of all their sins ; and the rest perish eternally for their own sin only. This made me think of Calvinism, where in reading a little on Wikipedia, I found this sentence that seemed to explain a little more about common mercy vs. special grace: "Those elected receive [special] mercy, while those not elected, the reprobates, receive justice without condition."

Second, in E4, the scene where Commander Waterford can't get an erection, leaves the room, and Mrs. Waterford follows him and says, "Let me help you." I found this to be a very touching scene, because we that Serena Joy actually loves her husband, and wants to express that love sexually. At the very least, we see some honest sexual desire from a heretofore unlikeable character, or at least, how thirsty she is under this regime. Most importantly, though, I think we see just how deep and hurtful the sexual repression at the heart of this theocracy is (or at least it is for the Waterfords). Human beings are sexual beings, but Gilead's ideology echoes contemporary conservative religious ideology so well in the way it denies and shames sexuality (and perhaps in the way it tolerates or indulges it underground!).

Red Oktober
May 24, 2006
<img src="https://fi.somethingawful.com/customtitles/title-red_oktober.gif"><br>wiggly eyes!



DasNeonLicht posted:


Second, in E4, the scene where Commander Waterford can't get an erection, leaves the room, and Mrs. Waterford follows him and says, "Let me help you." I found this to be a very touching scene, because we that Serena Joy actually loves her husband, and wants to express that love sexually. At the very least, we see some honest sexual desire from a heretofore unlikeable character, or at least, how thirsty she is under this regime. Most importantly, though, I think we see just how deep and hurtful the sexual repression at the heart of this theocracy is (or at least it is for the Waterfords). Human beings are sexual beings, but Gilead's ideology echoes contemporary conservative religious ideology so well in the way it denies and shames sexuality (and perhaps in the way it tolerates or indulges it underground!).

That scene worked really well for me; we see a lot of how terrible things are for the general staff and the handmaidens, but not much about how terrible the whole setup is for the wives. We see them as part of the privileged class, but it has to be utterly loving awful to sit there while your husband fucks another (younger, more virile) women on your lap. It went a long way to humanise her as a victim of the regime as well.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

++Threadnaught++


Your Gay Uncle posted:

I hope they get into Mrs. Waterford's background as a TV personality , I remember finding her character fascinating when I read the book. She was a Tammy Far Baker/Phyllis Schafly type who went on TV and railed against feminism, orthodox control,etc. It would be great if they updated her into being like Megan Kelley or Tomi Lauren,someone who championed against women's rights for those sweet evangelical dollars that'll only too help set up their own subjugation.

I hope they make her a Fox News correspondent.

Die Sexmonster!
Nov 30, 2005

You don't belong in this world!

Pac-Manioc Root posted:

Yeah. It's pretty clever how they're running a cross-promotion by having the prequel series up at the same time on C-Span.

I get why this didn't get any love, people are nervous. But my nihilistic rear end cracked up reading that, thanks

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Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

Flash! ah-ahh! Savior of the Universe! Flash! ah-ahh! He'll save everyone of us!

Pac-Manioc Root posted:

Yeah. It's pretty clever how they're running a cross-promotion by having the prequel series up at the same time on C-Span.

HA!

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