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veni veni veni posted:Was that guy she ran over a man or a watermelon? Cars do strange things to people when they run over them.
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May 11, 2017 04:50
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phosdex posted:Are we supposed to know what happened to Ofglen? Or is that something that is going to be explained later. Because right now I'm going under the assumption it has to do with female circumcision. It's fairly clear contextually. 'Woman valued only as breeding stock wakes up with bloody bandages around her genitals in a hospital in totalitarian fundamentalist regime and told she can't want what she can't have now' reads very clearly as 'fgm'.
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May 11, 2017 05:59
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Loomer posted:It's fairly clear contextually. 'Woman valued only as breeding stock wakes up with bloody bandages around her genitals in a hospital in totalitarian fundamentalist regime and told she can't want what she can't have now' reads very clearly as 'fgm'. Well yeah but this is also some alternate history/future and I wasn't sure if there was something else going on that would be divulged later.
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May 11, 2017 06:02
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It's unquestionably FGM.
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May 11, 2017 06:15
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phosdex posted:Well yeah but this is also some alternate history/future and I wasn't sure if there was something else going on that would be divulged later. I doubt it. The series, like the book, is meant to call to mind contemporary abuses and issues. Having it be some bizarre sci-fi gibberish would defeat the purpose.
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May 11, 2017 06:22
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Ok, I just wasn't sure if it was supposed to be what was implied or if there was supposed to be a mystery to it I guess?
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May 11, 2017 06:26
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phosdex posted:Ok, I just wasn't sure if it was supposed to be what was implied or if there was supposed to be a mystery to it I guess? Uh, I don't really see how the show showing Ofglen's unsettling aftermath in episode 3 and then The Commander explicitly spelling it out in this week's episode without screaming "Hey, we mutilated her genitals because she's an evil lesbian!!!!" implies some kind of mystery. I'm not sure what more you wanted after all of that because Ofglen went out with a bang and then some. This show's already disturbing enough.
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May 11, 2017 10:39
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Thanks for your opinion.
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May 11, 2017 10:43
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Was Ofglens trial and fgm explicitly after her replacement? I thought it was a flashback.
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May 11, 2017 10:50
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Pocket Billiards posted:Was Ofglens trial and fgm explicitly after her replacement? I thought it was a flashback. I can't see how it could be construed as anything but post-exposure.
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May 11, 2017 19:34
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Pocket Billiards posted:Was Ofglens trial and fgm explicitly after her replacement? I thought it was a flashback. Wait what? I don't see how you can view it as anything but chronological.
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May 11, 2017 19:39
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What is technology like in this show? Sometimes it seems that they don't even have indoor lights, but the scene with Ofglen looks very sci fi
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May 11, 2017 20:36
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It's a fifteen minutes into the future deal. I think the book literally happened in like the early 2000s or late 90s.
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May 11, 2017 21:25
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Yeah. The blown out antiseptic whiteness of the FGM clinic was probably a stylistic choice to communicate a subjective experience. I definitely don't get a vibe that it's telling a story about novel technology whatsoever.
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May 11, 2017 21:46
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The Commander has a laptop and regular reports from the outside so it's not like everything has reverted to 17th century tech. The state just controls everything so only the privileged get some niceties. It's like North Korea: US edition.
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May 11, 2017 21:49
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Yeah the only technological purge seems to be burning books so that women can't read. I got a slight chuckle out of the "it's all over the Internet" line, mostly because it gives the viewer hope - this little hosed up place is Not The Whole World.
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May 11, 2017 22:35
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The dim lights and little use of technology is more for the whole "return to traditional values" thing I think. In the book they have a tv in the Waterford's house, though it's rarely used.
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May 11, 2017 23:31
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Thwomp posted:Wait what? I don't see how you can view it as anything but chronological. To be clear, I'm not trying to argue that it isn't, just explaining why I found myself second guessing it at the time of watching. It's probably mostly to do with the impressions I had going into the episode. I scanned through a synopsis of the episode before watching it. For whatever reason it mentioned that the first appearance of Ofglen in that episode was ambiguous about whether it was flashback or chronological. I guess Ofglen had mentioned being a lesbian, but I just assumed it was her involvement with Mayday that would lead to her downfall like the book. I think it was in the birthmobile conversation that Ofglen mentioned being a 'gender-traitor' and that she was spared because she was fertile. So if the trial in episode 3 was current, this would be the second time such a judgement had been given. It is was a flashback, then this 'redemption' wouldn't only be the FGM but also the posting as Glen's handmaiden. Like I said, I'm not arguing for it. Just thinking that maybe I missed something that would make it explicitly chronological like maybe some mention of a current lesbian relationship with a Martha.
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May 12, 2017 01:31
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Well, the episode she gets disappeared in we're told that is exactly what's been going on - she's been intimate with one of the Marthas at Glen's house.
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May 12, 2017 01:55
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There's really nothing more beautiful than pointless defiance. Kinda sad Emily didn't go out in a reign of bullets though, probably would have been much more merciful.
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May 12, 2017 03:19
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Ubiquitous_ posted:Yep. She underwent female genital mutilation. I call it mutilation because men who get circumcized can still, with some exceptions, live a healthy life. FGM is primarily meant to turn women into brood mares who cannot enjoy sex again. If male circumcision was like female circumcision, then they would be removing the entire head of your dick. Also, it's strange how many people seem to talk about how ridiculous and impossible the show is, but all you need to do is look at Afghanistan to see a real life modern occurrence of a religious group completely usurping power and regressing their culture hundreds of years.
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May 12, 2017 03:21
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I get what they were going for with Emily's last act of defiance, but the execution had issues. Lots of people standing around awkwardly, not reacting naturally, etc. That scene really needed some snappier editing/blocking.Mistikman posted:Also, it's strange how many people seem to talk about how ridiculous and impossible the show is, but all you need to do is look at Afghanistan to see a real life modern occurrence of a religious group completely usurping power and regressing their culture hundreds of years. Yup. Or the whole hanging gay people from cranes thing. That's straight out of Iran.
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May 12, 2017 06:26
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Invalidating the uncomfortable message of a work of fiction by attacking the realism of a work of fiction? Sounds a lot like Reification to me.
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May 12, 2017 09:25
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Big Bug Hug posted:The dim lights and little use of technology is more for the whole "return to traditional values" thing I think. In the book they have a tv in the Waterford's house, though it's rarely used. I think the message is that technology exists but it is very selectively used. In a society where there are only a handful of births, a birth should be happening in one of the best facilities under their control...instead it happens in a house. We know they control hospitals that are well equipped but they voluntarily refuse to utilize it. Offred also mentions the Marthas have to hand make bread for aesthetic reasons. In comparison, I am sure only commanders actually have clearance to use the internet. That said, I am sure it is also a society where very little research is done in terms of anything "ify" like biology.
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May 12, 2017 09:58
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Yes, the most glaring example being the complete lack of assisted reproductive medicine in the midst of an infertility pandemic. Because that conflicts with "traditional values".
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May 12, 2017 10:34
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I'm surprised the wives are allowed relatively modern clothes. I would think they would be bundled up like all the other women. For some reason it seems out of place that the wives are allowed to walk around without any kind of headdress. Wouldn't they too be bound by the new modesty laws?
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May 12, 2017 13:32
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BattyKiara posted:I'm surprised the wives are allowed relatively modern clothes. I would think they would be bundled up like all the other women. For some reason it seems out of place that the wives are allowed to walk around without any kind of headdress. Wouldn't they too be bound by the new modesty laws? If the men have absolute power in their household, they would be banging every woman in their household, properly, and woe be to any who complained. Including the wives. Blessed are the meek. I guess it's just part of the nature of the show. They control how they think, with the words they use, the clothes they wear and the rituals they must observe. All the wives wear the exact same outfit, with the exact same colour, no variation or individuality. Just thinking about that last scene, Nick is going to get the 3 bells treatment, probably in the last episode, with June (heavily pregnant) watching on. Speculation from me, and a serious deviation from the book opening up the second season. Unless he is a triple agent playing the long game. Doesn't Fred get purged? Collateral fucked around with this message at 15:59 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 15:13
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I bet they could solve the whole pregnancy issue if they used a gangbang methodology
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May 12, 2017 23:30
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I think that's how they did it in the Handmaids Tail
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May 12, 2017 23:42
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I don't think the math on that one would hold up, aren't most men sterile and best and mutant producing at worst?
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May 12, 2017 23:51
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Hollismason posted:That was the most tense sex scene I have ever seen and not in a sexy way. It was just really intense. I think it was because of the music because I kept expecting someone to burst in with guns.
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May 13, 2017 00:18
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If Martin sheen cameoed as Junes dad in flashback I would be so happy
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May 13, 2017 08:34
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BattyKiara posted:I'm surprised the wives are allowed relatively modern clothes. I would think they would be bundled up like all the other women. For some reason it seems out of place that the wives are allowed to walk around without any kind of headdress. Wouldn't they too be bound by the new modesty laws? I suppose that's where the line was drawn. The wives are not expected to be "empty vessels waiting to be filled" (a line I just caught in my reread), devoid of personality and desires like the Handmaids are.
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May 13, 2017 08:43
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I hope they get into Mrs. Waterford's background as a TV personality , I remember finding her character fascinating when I read the book. She was a Tammy Far Baker/Phyllis Schafly type who went on TV and railed against feminism, orthodox control,etc. It would be great if they updated her into being like Megan Kelley or Tomi Lauren,someone who championed against women's rights for those sweet evangelical dollars that'll only too help set up their own subjugation.
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May 13, 2017 13:40
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I imagine season 1 will end where the book does (sans epilogue) and season 2 will be about June joining Mayday, with the probable reveal that Nick is definitely a double agent, and even possibly including some help from Mrs. Waterford
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May 13, 2017 15:42
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I caught up on the series this past week after finishing the book. With the book, I think I was expecting some deeper resolution or more profound insight, but I definitely appreciated the themes and message. I probably just need to read more of what's being written about the story — I've never been the best at analysis. I'm really glad the book has been made into a TV series, and I'm glad it's well-received so far. I'm also a huge Elisabeth Moss fan, so it's nice to see her in the limelight. Just a couple of my favorite things so far — First, the sinister depiction of the kangaroo court in E3, and the positively Orwellian language of the sentence, "You are hereby sentenced to the common mercy of the state." I was curious about the term "common mercy," so I looked it up. It may have just been an invention of the writers, but I found a book from 1762 with the long title Plain Truth: By which it is manifest, that the common mercy of God extends to all men, so as to give them the pardon of original sin but the special grace of God to His elect, appears in His giving them the pardon of all their sins ; and the rest perish eternally for their own sin only. This made me think of Calvinism, where in reading a little on Wikipedia, I found this sentence that seemed to explain a little more about common mercy vs. special grace: "Those elected receive [special] mercy, while those not elected, the reprobates, receive justice without condition." Second, in E4, the scene where Commander Waterford can't get an erection, leaves the room, and Mrs. Waterford follows him and says, "Let me help you." I found this to be a very touching scene, because we that Serena Joy actually loves her husband, and wants to express that love sexually. At the very least, we see some honest sexual desire from a heretofore unlikeable character, or at least, how thirsty she is under this regime. Most importantly, though, I think we see just how deep and hurtful the sexual repression at the heart of this theocracy is (or at least it is for the Waterfords). Human beings are sexual beings, but Gilead's ideology echoes contemporary conservative religious ideology so well in the way it denies and shames sexuality (and perhaps in the way it tolerates or indulges it underground!).
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May 13, 2017 20:58
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DasNeonLicht posted:
That scene worked really well for me; we see a lot of how terrible things are for the general staff and the handmaidens, but not much about how terrible the whole setup is for the wives. We see them as part of the privileged class, but it has to be utterly loving awful to sit there while your husband fucks another (younger, more virile) women on your lap. It went a long way to humanise her as a victim of the regime as well.
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May 13, 2017 21:36
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I hope they get into Mrs. Waterford's background as a TV personality , I remember finding her character fascinating when I read the book. She was a Tammy Far Baker/Phyllis Schafly type who went on TV and railed against feminism, orthodox control,etc. It would be great if they updated her into being like Megan Kelley or Tomi Lauren,someone who championed against women's rights for those sweet evangelical dollars that'll only too help set up their own subjugation. I hope they make her a Fox News correspondent.
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May 13, 2017 21:49
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Yeah. It's pretty clever how they're running a cross-promotion by having the prequel series up at the same time on C-Span. I get why this didn't get any love, people are nervous. But my nihilistic rear end cracked up reading that, thanks 
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May 14, 2017 15:50
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Yeah. It's pretty clever how they're running a cross-promotion by having the prequel series up at the same time on C-Span. HA!
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May 14, 2017 16:27
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