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Normal Adult Human
Feb 12, 2012

Nah.


oh i also thought shadow was black because he is introduced in prison

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nessin
Feb 7, 2010


Just a quick note for the OP, another difference is the Technical Boy didn't have his henchmen try and kill Shadow. Shadow was going to be dropped off at the hotel after the conversation and warning but he got out early and walked the rest of the way. In the TV series he didn't even leave Shadow with the message for Wednesday, which makes snse given he was expecting Shadow to die. The whole setup for the next scene is completely divorced from the book.

Magikarpal Tunnel
Jul 29, 2006

Football? Yaaaay


In the book it literally says that Shadow's called Shadow because as a kid he used to follow his mom around like...a shadow. It's a kiddie nickname that stuck.

Edmund Lava
Sep 8, 2004

Hey, I'm from Brooklyn. I'm going to call myself Mr. Friendly.



vonnegutt posted:

So I re-read the book in anticipation of the show and got caught on this and had to go look it up. My best guess is that it's Mercury - or some variation thereof - as he was a god of luck, money, and quickness. The section of the book where Shadow meets him is in Vegas, and Mercury (or the nameless god) is able to spot luck and follow money, and decides to help out a random waitress.

The forgetfulness might be a reference to quicksilver, or the element mercury, that is a metaphor for something slipping away or being hard to grasp.


I always thought he was Hades. His most common nickname was Pluto or "the wealthy one" and I assumed he forgetfulness but was a reference to how the ancient Greeks didn't like speaking about him. Mercury seems to work better though.

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008


Edmund Lava posted:

I always thought he was Hades. His most common nickname was Pluto or "the wealthy one" and I assumed he forgetfulness but was a reference to how the ancient Greeks didn't like speaking about him. Mercury seems to work better though.

The first time I read through it I thought he was Hades too but there weren't any other Greco-Roman gods in the book and that seemed like a conscious decision so I kind of doubt it now. I definitely think he's an underworld god of some kind though, possibly something Celtic because if I recall correctly he was specifically depicted as almost obsessively enjoying scotch.

hangedman1984
Jul 25, 2012



Edmund Lava posted:

I always thought he was Hades. His most common nickname was Pluto or "the wealthy one" and I assumed he forgetfulness but was a reference to how the ancient Greeks didn't like speaking about him. Mercury seems to work better though.

There is also the river Lethe, one of the rivers of the underworld in greek myth, ad if you drank from it it caused you to forgeth everything.

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006



Fallen Rib

Episode 2 promo image featuring Wednesday and Zorya Vechernyaya



Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Cloris Leachman is a treasure and she's going to kill as Zorya.

So many perfect castings in this show.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Grimey Drawer

The only downside is now I'm thinking about the Inglourious Basterds deleted scene Tarantino wrote for her and never released to the public and now I want to strangle him

Wizchine
Sep 17, 2007


I don't remember how far into the book I picked up that Shadow wasn't white, but it wasn't THAT far. Having other characters not being able to peg his ethnicity worked thematically - he's a mix of old world and new world, and can't really be pinned down to any one ethnicity (or pantheon). He's a cipher in every respect.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007
The Bartender

Zaphod42 posted:

Yeah I pictured Nancy as a fat older man in a big yellow suit.

It was the gloves that were yellow (lemon yellow), not the suit, and he had a thin mustache in the book. My memory is that he was described as fairly thin/small in general, and that he was great at karaoke. Part of that may be coming from Anansi Boys, though.

Edit: And yeah, Mr. Nancy never really seemed to care about race - but I'd be willing to bet that scene is intentionally misleading and taken out of context.

precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


Yeah Mr. Nancy is described as one of those small but tough old wizened guys you see in small Southern towns all the time. The change seems fine though, as long as I get to hear Orlando Jones sing "I got tiger's balls"

Flatscan
Mar 27, 2001

Outlaw Journalist



Shooting Blanks posted:

It was the gloves that were yellow (lemon yellow), not the suit, and he had a thin mustache in the book. My memory is that he was described as fairly thin/small in general, and that he was great at karaoke. Part of that may be coming from Anansi Boys, though.

I always thought he looked like Cab Calloway.

precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


Flatscan posted:

I always thought he looked like Cab Calloway.

I think it's more that's what he would've looked like in his heyday.

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008


Wizchine posted:

I don't remember how far into the book I picked up that Shadow wasn't white, but it wasn't THAT far. Having other characters not being able to peg his ethnicity worked thematically - he's a mix of old world and new world, and can't really be pinned down to any one ethnicity (or pantheon). He's a cipher in every respect.

Definitely, I honestly can't understand people who read the book thinking he was white. His appearance is intentionally ambiguous. Reading the book I always pictured him as someone who could pass for Latino, Native American, Middle Eastern, dark skinned white, or light skinned black but who wasn't obviously any of them. I think that ambiguity helped the character in a lot of ways and I must admit that when I first heard about casting I was a little disappointed that it didn't fit my mental picture of the character but I like the direction they're taking the show in and I think Ricky Whittle's killing it so far.

About Mr. Nancy, I definitely pictured him as being quite a bit older than Orlando Jones but other than that I think the representation is pretty close to my image of him. In the novel he doesn't really get into racial issues with Shadow and Wednesday, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have opinions on them and it certainly doesn't mean he wouldn't give his worshipers on the slave ships the kind of advice he's shown giving them in that clip. It's one thing to be all jovial and friendly sitting on the porch with a beer in Florida, but that kind of thing doesn't really work in the hold of a transatlantic slaver. Anger is appropriate for the character, and for any character really, in that context.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


stereobreadsticks posted:

About Mr. Nancy, I definitely pictured him as being quite a bit older than Orlando Jones but other than that I think the representation is pretty close to my image of him. In the novel he doesn't really get into racial issues with Shadow and Wednesday, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have opinions on them and it certainly doesn't mean he wouldn't give his worshipers on the slave ships the kind of advice he's shown giving them in that clip. It's one thing to be all jovial and friendly sitting on the porch with a beer in Florida, but that kind of thing doesn't really work in the hold of a transatlantic slaver. Anger is appropriate for the character, and for any character really, in that context.

But that's what's so perfect about the scene, and what shows good things for the future of this show. They were going off-book but it perfectly fits the tone of Mr. Nancy.

He wasn't angry. He was smiling. It was the slave in the ship who was angry, and he was applauding the anger; because anger gets poo poo done. Nancy isn't angry, at least not in the same way. He's the master trickster. He knows exactly how to push people's buttons and play them to get them to do what he wants. And that's exactly what he's doing

Its so perfect when he mentions farming indigo for purple suits as he tugs on his own purple suit. He's a showman, and he's selling himself to them. Same as Wednesday.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007
The Bartender

Zaphod42 posted:

But that's what's so perfect about the scene, and what shows good things for the future of this show. They were going off-book but it perfectly fits the tone of Mr. Nancy.

He wasn't angry. He was smiling. It was the slave in the ship who was angry, and he was applauding the anger; because anger gets poo poo done. Nancy isn't angry, at least not in the same way. He's the master trickster. He knows exactly how to push people's buttons and play them to get them to do what he wants. And that's exactly what he's doing

Its so perfect when he mentions farming indigo for purple suits as he tugs on his own purple suit. He's a showman, and he's selling himself to them. Same as Wednesday.

I took that as him deceiving the slaves as well, to an extent. So much of what he's saying would have no meaning for a slave bound for America - tobacco, cancer, police, etc. He's the embodiment of fear of what's coming, knowledge that where they are is a bad place to be but to an extent, the unknown. Technical Boy did the same thing, except was more forthcoming about his weirdness - but he's also very new, and probably doesn't see it as a bad thing. Mr. Nancy's appearance was more as he imagined himself, rather than his current corporeal form.

Maybe I'm way off base, but I have a feeling that scene was intentionally but I still think that scene was intentionally misleading in some way. If nothing else, it fits the character perfectly.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

#RXTREVOLUTIONFOREVER6


Zaphod42 posted:

Yeah I pictured Nancy as a fat older man in a big yellow suit.
I imagine him being tall and skinny makes sense since it fits better with him being a literal spiderman

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

I could hear the roots of loneliness creeping through me when the world was hushed at four o'clock in the morning


I kinda imagined him as ray Charles

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011




Before I started reading the book I had stumbled on Gaimen's blog post about his dream casting for Shadow being Vin Diesel so I just sort of let that inform my image. All the race questions kind of made sense since I always got those too growing up, and they were always the stupidest guesses.

jazz babies
Mar 7, 2007



I don't think I'll ever get over how perfect the casting is.

hangedman1984
Jul 25, 2012



jazz babies posted:

I don't think I'll ever get over how perfect the casting is.

glasnost toyboy
May 29, 2009


Ian McShane as a fragmented Norse god is probably the best bit of casting TV has seen for a while.

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

daisy fresh and arrow straight


Zorya sneak peek:

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/american-g...-140026219.html

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006



Fallen Rib

Is there some way to refresh the day until it's Sunday again?

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

Indeed,




They cast some dude called Jeremy Davies on the show.

This is his actual wikipedia picture:

Aardark
Aug 5, 2004



You can upload a different picture. It's an encyclopaedia that anyone can edit.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007
Simaggeddon

Dickie loving Bennett. I am fully behind him being in pretty much anything.

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

Indeed,




Aardark posted:

You can upload a different picture. It's an encyclopaedia that anyone can edit.

Can you guess his character on the show?

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Grimey Drawer

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Can you guess his character on the show?

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

daisy fresh and arrow straight



Nice.

I don't recall Jesus being in the book, this should be interesting

Zurui
Apr 20, 2005
Even now...

I remember Gaiman mentioning a deleted scene in the book where Shadow talks to Jesus. Are there any other references to the Abrahamic God(s) in the book?

Edmund Lava
Sep 8, 2004

Hey, I'm from Brooklyn. I'm going to call myself Mr. Friendly.



Easter definitely mentions him. It's the only reason she's doing so well.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Grimey Drawer

Jesus being whitewashed is already great. What I'm really curious to see now is if Jesus is going to be portrayed as a liberal hippie or he's going to be Supply Side Jesus

edit: holy poo poo, I didn't know Al Franken came up with Supply Side Jesus

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

daisy fresh and arrow straight


Maybe he's playing both and they'll get in a fight

precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


Since this is the spoiler thread...

He won't/can't be playing any Jesus but "the Jesus of America", just like Wednesday is Odin but Odin is not him. Following that logic, it only makes sense for him to be playing Jesus as a schizophrenic weirdo who has to somehow embody both the awful hypocrisy of megachurches and the earnest charity/fellowship of Deep South churches; he has to have it in him to be the Mormon Jesus (because you don't get to choose what your believers believe) and the Catholic Jesus and the Baptist Jesus and the hippie cult Jesus.

So basically it's perfect casting.

edit: scratch everything I just said because...

quote:

There will be multiple versions of Jesus.

Jeremy Davies as "White Jesus"
Fode Bangoura as "Black Jesus"
Ernesto Reyes as "Mexican Jesus"
Justin Sanchez as "Hippie Jesus"
Joel Chico as "Asian Jesus"

So there you go.

precision fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 22:48

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Grimey Drawer

Man I enjoy having several Jesusi, but your idea of a schizophrenic Black Swan Jesus is so good too

angerbeet
Mar 23, 2004


the dlob days are over


Oh Cloris Leachman, you can ruin my stew anyday

angerbeet fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 23:13

double nine
Aug 8, 2013



Wasn't there a scene in the book where shadows talks with a totally not jesus holy figure guy in white clothes, bright lights, with undistinguished features? IIRC when he's at the vigil?

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precision
May 7, 2006

Double great.


double nine posted:

Wasn't there a scene in the book where shadows talks with a totally not jesus holy figure guy in white clothes, bright lights, with undistinguished features? IIRC when he's at the vigil?

I thought that was Elvis?

The problem with putting Jesus in this story is that, even if you take the route that "most Christians don't REALLY believe in Jesus", there are still enough people who do that he would over-shadow (ha ha) every other God in the book except maybe Technology and Media. Splitting him into 5 separate Gods is one way of explaining why he isn't super powerful, though I think it would work just as well to have him be crazy like I said.

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