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everything is made by monsters
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May 11, 2017 21:28
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sexpig by night posted:everything is made by monsters Except for Fatty Arbuckle movies, ironically.
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May 11, 2017 21:31
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Guy Goodbody posted:I guess the only thing to do about is stop caring about dumb stuff artists say and just enjoy or not enjoy their work on it's own merits Or you could simply not support lovely artists and support some of the many not-lovely artists, or at least the ones smart enough to not flagrantly wave their rear end in a top hat flag where everyone can see it.
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May 11, 2017 21:55
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EVS is a loving rear end in a top hat (I have firsthand experience with this) so gently caress him and his weak sauce apology.
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May 12, 2017 01:23
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He's always been cool with me. Drew me a free Flash headshot, and another time we discussed revamping the Legion of Super Pets.
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May 12, 2017 04:12
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Kai Tave posted:Or you could simply not support lovely artists and support some of the many not-lovely artists, or at least the ones smart enough to not flagrantly wave their rear end in a top hat flag where everyone can see it. Man, I don't want to get rid of my Rat Queens trades just cause Roc Upshurch is an abuser
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May 12, 2017 04:19
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You already paid for them, and he's not the only one who worked on it. Just like Polanski. Hundreds of people made those movies, not just him.
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May 12, 2017 04:37
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Guy Goodbody posted:Man, I don't want to get rid of my Rat Queens trades just cause Roc Upshurch is an abuser I mean I'm not the sort of person that goes around and is like "oh so you read Ender's Game when you were in high school, good job bigot" or whatever, I don't think you can find a nerd that hasn't at some point enjoyed a comic, book, movie, or game made by a real rear end in a top hat, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone play the "just learn to separate the art from the artist" card before that wasn't doing so in defense of a genuine shitbag. It's never something like oh yeah this guy is real big on abstract postmodernism but don't let the artist's vision unduly influence your own impression of the work, it's always something like "yeah this guy beats his wife, but I mean just look at these drawings," and once you're aware of someone that's a big enough rear end in a top hat that people have to try and convince you to look past all the homophobia or telling people to kill themselves or literal child rape in order to enjoy a piece of recreational media, I feel like that's a good time to ask yourself if you really need to keep supporting them just to get your escapism fix or if you can't just go to one of the many other authors, game designers, and directors who aren't blatant bigots or rapists or whatever instead. Yeah yeah, no ethical consumption etc. Like I said, I don't go around looking for excuses to browbeat my acquaintances over this stuff, but if I find out that some creator is a real piece of poo poo then, welp, I figure I can afford to give them a miss.
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May 12, 2017 04:40
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Open Marriage Night posted:He's always been cool with me. Drew me a free Flash headshot, and another time we discussed revamping the Legion of Super Pets. Ethan and I go way back to the AOL comic boards. We all met up at Chicon one ear and went to the hotel bar where he was a huge loving rear end in a top hat to our waitress and embarassed every one of us present. He continued to be a jackass until the demise of the platform.
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May 12, 2017 04:44
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It's just so easy for sometone to be revealed to be an rear end in a top hat or just say something stupid on the internet these days. Back in the day you'd never hear about some author's lovely political views unless he inserted them in his work. I kinda hate the idea that now that we're more interconnected than ever and it's so easy for people say poo poo that everyone will hear, the conclusion to that is that we all start cutting stuff out of lives that we'd otherwise be fine with And it's not like it goes the other way, I could find out tomorrow that Greg Land is a committed Marxist-Leninist and donates half his income to donkey sanctuaries, I'm still not paying for his garbage. I'm not saying that my opinion is correct, or that yours is problematic or anything, it's just how I feel about things. There's so much media these days that everyone has to filter stuff. I just don't want the artist's beliefs or Twitter antics to be one of my filters.
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May 12, 2017 04:52
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Guy Goodbody posted:It's just so easy for sometone to be revealed to be an rear end in a top hat or just say something stupid on the internet these days. Back in the day you'd never hear about some author's lovely political views unless he inserted them in his work. I kinda hate the idea that now that we're more interconnected than ever and it's so easy for people say poo poo that everyone will hear, the conclusion to that is that we all start cutting stuff out of lives that we'd otherwise be fine with I was crushed when I found out what a dickhead Chuck Dixon was. He was among my favorite authors back then and I got a front row seat for him calling a popular female author a oval office.
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May 12, 2017 04:54
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I personally think knowing that people are poo poo and not giving them money is a net positive to society but the seeming need for constant vigilance can be an understandably exhausting concept.
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May 12, 2017 04:56
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I'll watch Rosmary's Baby any time the urge hits, but I haven't gone to Subway since Jared got found out. I think that's balance.
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May 12, 2017 04:59
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Kai Tave posted:I don't think I've ever seen anyone play the "just learn to separate the art from the artist" card before that wasn't doing so in defense of a genuine shitbag.
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May 12, 2017 05:02
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Guy Goodbody posted:It's just so easy for sometone to be revealed to be an rear end in a top hat or just say something stupid on the internet these days. Can we agree that there are degrees of assholism and stupidity though? I've been a jerk to people before though I like to think I've done my best to apologize for the worst of it and do better, but there's a difference between being a jerk and telling someone to go kill themselves, or campaigning against gay marriage rights, or beating your spouse, or exemplifying the overwhelming fear white middle-class America has of black people.
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May 12, 2017 05:14
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Kai Tave posted:Can we agree that there are degrees of assholism and stupidity though? I've been a jerk to people before though I like to think I've done my best to apologize for the worst of it and do better, but there's a difference between being a jerk and telling someone to go kill themselves, or campaigning against gay marriage rights, or beating your spouse, or exemplifying the overwhelming fear white middle-class America has of black people. It might be worth asking Spencer his views on those things today.
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May 12, 2017 05:17
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You guys wanna know my opinion of John Lennon?
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May 12, 2017 05:22
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I won't forgive Lennon till he gives back Yoko's beret.
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May 12, 2017 05:28
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Mr. Maltose posted:I personally think knowing that people are poo poo and not giving them money is a net positive to society but the seeming need for constant vigilance can be an understandably exhausting concept. Yea this is where I'm at. It's good we can be more ethical consumers, but at the same time maintaining 100% purity is exhausting if not impossible. Sean Connery thinks sometimes you just need to smack a lady, Lennon abused the gently caress out of his family, the comics industry is a small community full of nepotism and incestuous bullshit. Everyone has to have their line but I'm past thinking that it's possible to maintain a universal standard and expect everyone to agree. As long as we can agree Frank Miller is a huge piece of poo poo who should be scorned and excluded I just can't muster the energy to pretend that Dark Knight Returns wasn't amazing.
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May 12, 2017 05:34
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Roth posted:Um, wow, that's pretty hosed up Its pretty great to go with your av theme though.
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May 12, 2017 06:51
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Kai Tave posted:Can we agree that there are degrees of assholism and stupidity though? I've been a jerk to people before though I like to think I've done my best to apologize for the worst of it and do better, but there's a difference between being a jerk and telling someone to go kill themselves, or campaigning against gay marriage rights, or beating your spouse, or exemplifying the overwhelming fear white middle-class America has of black people. Do you think that Barack Obama should be shunned for saying he was against gay marriage during his campaign in 2008?
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May 12, 2017 06:52
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Zachack posted:Do you think that Barack Obama should be shunned for saying he was against gay marriage during his campaign in 2008? Yes but only if he once thought a lesbian was going to pull a gun out of a trash can to shoot him with.
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May 12, 2017 06:57
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Zachack posted:Do you think that Barack Obama should be shunned for saying he was against gay marriage during his campaign in 2008? I probably wouldn't buy his comic, if that's what you're asking.
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May 12, 2017 07:00
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Kai Tave posted:I probably wouldn't buy his comic, if that's what you're asking.
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May 12, 2017 07:38
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Zachack posted:But you might, even though there are other not-lovely artists that don't wave their rear end in a top hat flag everywhere. I can't actually tell if you're trying to drive at a point and failing so I'll just say that this is a thread about comics and a discussion about comic book writers and artists, and I guess other media creators as well since someone mentioned Roman Polanski, so I'm not sure why you brought up noted former President of the United States Barack Obama who to the best of my knowledge doesn't actually have any comic books to his name.
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May 12, 2017 07:41
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Zachack posted:But you might, even though there are other not-lovely artists that don't wave their rear end in a top hat flag everywhere. I think there's a difference between being an rear end in a top hat on Twitter and murdering hundreds of civilians with flying death robots
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May 12, 2017 07:41
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Kai Tave posted:I can't actually tell if you're trying to drive at a point and failing so I'll just say that this is a thread about comics and a discussion about comic book writers and artists, and I guess other media creators as well since someone mentioned Roman Polanski, so I'm not sure why you brought up noted former President of the United States Barack Obama who to the best of my knowledge doesn't actually have any comic books to his name. As far as I can tell the point seems to be we should just mindlessly consume media without any analysis because actually everyone is bad.
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May 12, 2017 07:44
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Mr. Maltose posted:As far as I can tell the point seems to be we should just mindlessly consume media without any analysis because actually everyone is bad. No, the point is, as Was Taters said, quote:It might be worth asking Spencer his views on those things today. Obama in 2008 made statements during his campaign against gay marriage, amplifying that position. Then, later, he shifted on that, killed DADT, and helped bring about gay marriage. Spencer's record is likely less illustrious than that, but holding his 2005 views against him, when he could probably be pestered into clarifying his current views in relation to the 2005 ones, is almost as stupid as saying nothing matters who cares. If you'd prefer to stick to other comic creators, I don't think Grant Morrison, creator of The Filth, ever walked back saying that he had never used rape in a comic, the most direct conclusion being that he doesn't think men can rape other men. But holding that against him now would probably be stupid, and I'm betting if you asked him in 2017 about a 2011 interview he'd apologize for saying that and correct himself. People's views change, especially over 12 years. Maybe Spencer's have, maybe they haven't.
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May 12, 2017 08:23
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If only Spencer was engaged in some kind of work where his views on culture and politics could be expressed, like some sort of creative artistic endeavor. Alas. Alack. We'll just never know. EDIT: I would address your original argument's fallacy that Obama's anti-gay marriage stance held any belief stronger than 'What I Should Say To Become President' but the Morrison comparison is apt and is actually worse than you state, considering that's the book with the literal death sperm. Mr. Maltose fucked around with this message at 10:01 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 09:57
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I love that people are treating Nick Spencer like's a dumb kid who might have matured and not a grown rear end adult running for political office at the time.
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May 12, 2017 11:16
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I'm not really sure this discussion can continue after that loving absurd postmodernism example.
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May 12, 2017 13:57
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CapnAndy posted:gently caress, man, here you go: Ready Player One is about how a bad and broken man warped the world in his own image and horribly damaged it in so doing, and the main character is a semi-broken young man on the same path who has to learn through painful experience that that's a lovely, stupid path to follow. I don't give a flying gently caress if that's not the story the author was trying to write, or that he clearly thinks he wrote a pretty awesome future. It's also just a really terrible book that leans way too hard on HEY NERDS LOOK A REFERENCE YOU KNOW and then also explaining exactly what the reference is to let the non-nerds in on it
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May 12, 2017 15:18
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Zachack posted:If you'd prefer to stick to other comic creators, I don't think Grant Morrison, creator of The Filth, ever walked back saying that he had never used rape in a comic, the most direct conclusion being that he doesn't think men can rape other men. that's a weird conclusion to draw from that, particularly since the comic you cited also features multiple instances of men raping women, as does The Invisibles. it seems the actual most direct conclusion is that he was wrong/bullshitting.
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May 12, 2017 15:39
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Do people dislike Jim Steranko because of his political views? I know he was a bit intense about it during the last election.
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May 12, 2017 16:20
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Dan Didio posted:I love that people are treating Nick Spencer like's a dumb kid who might have matured and not a grown rear end adult running for political office at the time. People continue to grow after 25. loving shocking I know but there's all these decades where poo poo happens to and around them.
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May 12, 2017 16:23
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I think his Sam Wilson issues suggest that he certainly tends to the left a lot more than he used to, but that he still holds some extraordinarily dopey views, particularly involving what constitutes valid forms of resistance. I think that series demonstrated an ok understanding of a lot of social ills but that blunders in dealing with what the solutions to those problems are. ie. his tweets about punching Richard Spencer-- I don't read them as a tacit endorsement of Richard Spencer, but of someone being a well-intentioned moron. My personal read is that he's learning, but wants to cling stubbornly to some pretty stupid ideas. I don't know if he's still the avid supporter of gentrification he was in 2005, but I know that I get a lot of freshman who come in totally unaware of what gentrification is, are initially sympathetic to it, and are legitimately shocked to learn how pernicious it can be. If I didn't think people can grow and change I'd be pretty lovely at my job, but I don't know, I don't think it's fair of me to expect everybody else to extend him the benefit of the doubt. Especially since, well, the bad student papers I get aren't the subject of a huge media push and are definitely not available to purchase at every comic book store in the country. If Secret Empire is a tremendous mis-step in terms of optics, it still demonstrates, I think, a deeply held revulsion towards fascism on the author's part. Whether or not that revulsion is expressed in a very effective (or even ethical, depending on how you read it) is more questionable.
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May 12, 2017 17:27
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Spencer was originally a 3rd party/independent candidate. Then he joined the Democrats. So that's maturation right there. e: Not to mention you're talking about a city who at one time had Jerry Springer as mayor and prior to Spencer's running had a chronic alcoholic holding the office.
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May 12, 2017 17:30
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Wheat Loaf posted:Do people dislike Jim Steranko because of his political views? I know he was a bit intense about it during the last election. I found it kind of a relief because I felt like the rear end in a top hat at the party who never put much stock in his bombastic stories that oddly had no witnesses. I'm not sure how much of a right winger he really is and how much of that week was him having some kneejerk old man moments. Disagreeing politically won't necessarily put me off someone's work, but deep disagreements on human rights and some closely held philosophies will.
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May 12, 2017 17:35
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Was Taters posted:I found it kind of a relief because I felt like the rear end in a top hat at the party who never put much stock in his bombastic stories that oddly had no witnesses. I'm not sure how much of a right winger he really is and how much of that week was him having some kneejerk old man moments. To be fair Secret Empire is manifestly political in a way that, say, Chuck Dixon's Nightwing or Robin aren't. It's harder to isolate his own convictions from the work when that work is (as his Sam Wilson issues were and Secret Empire is) very clearly attempting to make an explicit political statement.
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May 12, 2017 17:43
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Was Taters posted:People continue to grow after 25. loving shocking I know but there's all these decades where poo poo happens to and around them. Congrats to Nick Spencer on growing from a kind of creepy racist into a weirdo Nazi lover.
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May 12, 2017 17:48
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