Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



I've searched the forums, and have not had much luck finding good info on the best electronic earprotection. One that limits loud sounds while allowing you to talk to someone near you.

My dad has recently decided to get into handguns, and I need to be able to teach him, so he needs to be able to hear me at the indoor gun range.

What is the best hearing protection electronic ear muffs I can buy?

I have a pair of Howard Leigh sports, and they work fine if I wear a foam ear plug underneath.

I'm wondering if there is a more expensive version that would not require the internal ear plugs to protect hearing?

I am looking at these:
https://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leigh...0T9ZTXY5VS0PVYP
supposedly 30 db reduction vs the howard leight slim 26db.

These have the same protection db as the howard leights sport ( https://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leigh...H56E4PTKBSB2EXB ) but seem to be higher quality and will take the gel insert that people here seem to swear by:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-TacticalP...or+tactical+pro

I don't need radio communications. Just voice on the range while people may be firing hand guns. He has very little experience with hand guns and I need to make sure we can both hear each other so he doesn't do something silly while still protecting his hearing. Its already failing so I don't want him to lose anymore.

I'd love to start a discussion if anyone is willing!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Sordins or Peltor Comtacs, either with gel cups, don't look back. Comfortable enough to wear all day without issue. Some people double up with them, but I've never felt the need unless I was shooting indoors or shooting the 50.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



The Rat posted:

Sordins or Peltor Comtacs, either with gel cups, don't look back. Comfortable enough to wear all day without issue. Some people double up with them, but I've never felt the need unless I was shooting indoors or shooting the 50.

Links would be great if you don't mind.

I find that these companies make about 5 different models of each and I have no idea how to tell them apart.

I've been googling for 4 hours and Sordins never even came up.

Peltor Comtacs just seem to be the Peltor I list with military wiring for communication and are otherwise the same? ( https://www.amazon.com/3M-TacticalP...or+tactical+pro )

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



https://www.amazon.com/MSA-Sordin-Supreme-Pro-Electronic/dp/B00QV33ZRK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494898570&sr=8-1&keywords=sordin+supreme

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Comtac-Earmuff-Coyote-Brown/dp/B00PCMWX9W/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1494898559&sr=8-4&keywords=comtac+iii

Those are the general model types I have. I've always gotten them used from arfcom EE rather than paying retail.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010


Bad Dog

Sorry to derail right out of the gates, but what do you guys do for eyewear when you use Sordins or Peltors?

I do foam plugs + Howard Leights, so it doesn't matter that my eye protectin breaks the cup seal a little bit, but I'd be nervous about that if I only had the one layer of ear pro.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Smith Hudsons. As a bonus they don't have that "just got off the range/deployment" look that Oakleys tend to.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004




What makes them better?

These seem to have the best dB reduction rating and are a third of the cost of the ones you mentioned

https://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leigh...0T9ZTXY5VS0PVYP

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Comfort, ease of use (auto shut off feature rather than a dial that can/will get bumped in your range bag and left on and then you have dead batteries on your next range trip, can change batteries easily), slimmer profile for better cheek welds with long guns, being able to tell what direction a sound is coming from.

FWIW I haven't used the Howard Leights. I went from using Peltor Tac6S (meh) right up to Sordins.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



The Rat posted:

Comfort, ease of use (auto shut off feature rather than a dial that can/will get bumped in your range bag and left on and then you have dead batteries on your next range trip, can change batteries easily), slimmer profile for better cheek welds with long guns, being able to tell what direction a sound is coming from.

FWIW I haven't used the Howard Leights. I went from using Peltor Tac6S (meh) right up to Sordins.

These are not the normal howard lights you see for 40 dollars... impact sport, but rather the impact pro.

All the reviews I see say that they are much better than the howard leight cheap version, except that they are large, with is fine for pistol training.

I'm not trying to be contrarian just trying to get input from multiple people before I buy.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



I've used the howard leight cheap model for years with plugs in my earholes in case the seal breaks and I may be wrong, but if I recall they are also stereo.

I'm just having trouble justifying a 300 dollar pair of ear pros, when a 70 dollar pair has reviews as just as good.

I really hope someone has used both the sordin, peltor, and howard leight pro and can give me more info from someone who actually shoots a lot rather than some boobs off amazon.

unknonymous
May 16, 2013



Wendigee posted:

I really hope someone has used both the sordin, peltor, and howard leight pro and can give me more info from someone who actually shoots a lot rather than some boobs off amazon.

In that case you should probably listen to The Rat.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Wendigee posted:

I've used the howard leight cheap model for years with plugs in my earholes in case the seal breaks and I may be wrong, but if I recall they are also stereo.

I'm just having trouble justifying a 300 dollar pair of ear pros, when a 70 dollar pair has reviews as just as good.

I really hope someone has used both the sordin, peltor, and howard leight pro and can give me more info from someone who actually shoots a lot rather than some boobs off amazon.

I shoot a ton with plugs underneath Sordins. They're worth it.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



unknonymous posted:

In that case you should probably listen to The Rat.

Man I'm not harshing on anyone... I don't know the rat or his experience. I'm just trying to juice out a best buy for someone that shoots in an indoor pistol range and is trying to buy 2 sets at once so I can hear my dad talk back to me as I help him train. 2 sets of sordin would cover the 600 dollars that would buy him the gun he wants.

I'm not a wealthy right now and neither is my dad.

If I can get buy with something cheaper that is nearly as good, if not combat tested, then I'm fine with that.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



thermobollocks posted:

I shoot a ton with plugs underneath Sordins. They're worth it.

so you double up even with sordins?

unknonymous
May 16, 2013



Howard Leight Impact Pros are perfectly usable, and if that's in your budget go for it. My Peltors are better in every way, not sure how it compares to something like Sordins. Definitely better than the Impact Sport.

edit: also I definitely double up with the Peltors because with the gel cups the NRR is 20 whereas the Impact Pros are 30.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


Wendigee posted:

so you double up even with sordins?

I do, especially when shooting indoors. You can crank up the volume on them so you can still hear people just fine so might as well.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



That is what is blowing my mind because the Sordins are only rated at 18dB reduction... yet cost 250+

I don't get it.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



unknonymous posted:

Howard Leight Impact Pros are perfectly usable, and if that's in your budget go for it. My Peltors are better in every way, not sure how it compares to something like Sordins. Definitely better than the Impact Sport.

edit: also I definitely double up with the Peltors because with the gel cups the NRR is 20 whereas the Impact Pros are 30.

I don't....

The peltors are better in every way but you need to use a foam plug because they are 10dB louder than the Howard Leight Impact Pros?

I'm sorry I really just don't understand.

californiasushi
Jun 6, 2004



some electronic ear pro

we have the impact sports, impact pros, sordin supreme pros, sordin supreme pro-x's, and liberator ii's and also used the comtac 3. we've tried them side by side by side

for an outdoor range, and definitely for an indoor range, you should be doubling up. that's from the cdc. even if it seems like you're not doing any hearing damage wearing just one set of hearing protection, you probably are. i double up even when i shoot suppressed. that being said, the impact pros offer the best hearing protection out of all the ear pro i mentioned. if you had to only wear one set of e-muffs and no plugs that would be the best bet. indoors with them i would definitely still double up. outdoors i usually wear them when i'm away from the firing line but still close to shooting like scoring, pit duty, or waiting in a squad at a match.

the problem is that when you double up with foamies and wear the impact pros, communication is pretty hard. you definitely have to yell. with impact sports you can communicate reasonably well with another person doubled up, and i think that's because the hearing protection isn't very good in them and the seal is easily broken. the same goes for the sordin/comtac/liberators. when you double up, it's quite difficult to hear what another person is saying. the comtac 3's have a boost amplification feature, perhaps to help with this, but overall it still sounds quieter than sordins doubled up perhaps because the hearing protection is better on the comtacs.

people will say you can use different plugs that help amplify what people are saying like surefires, and then double up with electronic ear muff. i've used surefire plugs before and they're pretty bad compared to foamies as hearing protection. i don't think there's a free lunch. i think if you can easily hear what someone is saying doubled up, it's because the hearing protection isn't as great. if you had to communicate with another shooter, i feel that foamies + impact sports are the sweet spot in terms of hearing protection + ability to communicate but ymmv.

as far as what makes sordins & other high-end e-muffs better than the impact sports/pros, i think there's a few things. the howard leights are just weather-resistant. the supreme pro-x's have waterproof battery compartments and mics. something like the liberators go even further and waterproof the electronics. this translates to more reliability in inclement weather and a longer lifespan from sweat messing with electronics. with gel cups, the sordins & co are significantly more comfortable than the impact pros and sports. when i'm wearing ear pro all day (8 hours+), i'll use the sordins. the difference in comfort is drastic. sordins & co also offer better sound quality than impact pros/sports. they're a bit different in how they work (dynamic range compression vs clipping in the howard leights) but things will sound better in the sordins & co and you'll also be better able to tell where sounds are coming from. at least that's how it is for me. the impact pros don't fold like the others do and are quite bulky. the bulkiness definitely may make a difference if you want to shoot a rifle.

imo, for your situation, i'd just use plugs and impact sports and wouldn't bother with different ear pro but ymmv. i think the different muffs have tradeoffs and certain ones work better for certain situations so i keep all of them around.

californiasushi fucked around with this message at 02:40 on May 16, 2017

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



californiasushi posted:


some electronic ear pro

we have the impact sports, impact pros, sordin supreme pros, sordin supreme pro-x's, and liberator ii's and also used the comtac 3. we've tried them side by side by side

for an outdoor range, and definitely for an indoor range, you should be doubling up. that's from the cdc. even if it seems like you're not doing any hearing damage wearing just one set of hearing protection, you probably are. i double up even when i shoot suppressed. that being said, the impact pros offer the best hearing protection out of all the ear pro i mentioned. if you had to only wear one set of e-muffs and no plugs that would be the best bet. indoors with them i would definitely still double up. outdoors i usually wear them when i'm away from the firing line but still close to shooting like scoring, pit duty, or waiting in a squad at a match.

the problem is that when you double up with foamies and wear the impact pros, communication is pretty hard. you definitely have to yell. with impact sports you can communicate reasonably well with another person doubled up, and i think that's because the hearing protection isn't very good in them and the seal is easily broken. the same goes for the sordin/comtac/liberators. when you double up, it's quite difficult to hear what another person is saying. the comtac 3's have a boost amplification feature, perhaps to help with this, but overall it still sounds quieter than sordins doubled up perhaps because the hearing protection is better on the comtacs.

people will say you can use different plugs that help amplify what people are saying like surefires, and then double up with electronic ear muff. i've used surefire plugs before and they're pretty bad compared to foamies as hearing protection. i don't think there's a free lunch. i think if you can easily hear what someone is saying doubled up, it's because the hearing protection isn't as great. if you had to communicate with another shooter, i feel that foamies + impact sports are the sweet spot in terms of hearing protection + ability to communicate but ymmv.

as far as what makes sordins & other high-end e-muffs better than the impact sports/pros, i think there's a few things. the howard leights are just weather-resistant. the supreme pro-x's have waterproof battery compartments and mics. something like the liberators go even farther and waterproof the electronics. this translates to more reliability in inclement weather and a longer lifespan from sweat messing with electronics. with gel cups, the sordins & co are significantly more comfortable than the impact pros and sports. when i'm wearing ear pro all day (8 hours+), i'll use the sordins. the difference in comfort is drastic. sordins & co also offer better sound quality than impact pros/sports. they're a bit different in how they work (dynamic range compression vs clipping in the howard leights) but things will sound better in the sordins & co and you'll also be better able to tell where sounds are coming from. at least that's how it is for me. the impact pros don't fold like the others do and are quite bulky. the bulkiness definitely may make a difference if you want to shoot a rifle.

imo, for your situation, i'd just use plugs and impact sports and wouldn't bother with different ear pro but ymmv

Thank you very much. I have used impact sports for years with foam ear plugs and have always been able to hear people talking when I turned the volume up and have yet to fail a hearing test. I don't need a warzone capable unit, just something i can talk to my dad with because he has no idea how to use guns and I don't want him sweeping the range.

Thank you for the great write up.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



I've just been using foam plugs for years, but I'm going to get a pair of MSA Sordins, mainly to protect my ears from getting sunburned. My question is: should I get the normal over-the-top headband model, or the neckband model?

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



IMO the only reason to get the neckband model is if you're going to be wearing a helmet over it.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



The Rat posted:

IMO the only reason to get the neckband model is if you're going to be wearing a helmet over it.

Eh, any kind of headware really. My next set of ears is probably going to be some kind of neckband because I like to wear a hat shooting and it's really loving annoying with headband models.

JEEVES420
Feb 16, 2005

The world is a mess... and I just need to rule it

Cyrano4747 posted:

Eh, any kind of headware really. My next set of ears is probably going to be some kind of neckband because I like to wear a hat shooting and it's really loving annoying with headband models.

Are you talking Fedora or ball cap? I have the impact sports ear protection and have no discomfort with ball cap and sunglasses.

Best part of active protection is being able to listen to music while shooting and still being able to hear people talking.

Action Jesus
Jun 18, 2002



JEEVES420 posted:

Are you talking Fedora or ball cap?



I'm sorry is there any other kind of range headwear?

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

My 2 cents:

I got the Peltor TacticalPros because of the 26NRR

Added gelcup because someone in TFR said "It's like having a pair of boobs pressing against your head"

Tried them without plugs underneath (outside, shooting only pistol and smaller but had a guy with a rifle a few tables over) and they were fine

If I have a regret it is that I didn't get these 10 years ago.

E: I'll still probably put plugs in if I'm shooting large rifles but I rarely shoot them, mostly 22, 9mm etc. And I try to find a table away from others.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



JEEVES420 posted:

Are you talking Fedora or ball cap? I have the impact sports ear protection and have no discomfort with ball cap and sunglasses.

Best part of active protection is being able to listen to music while shooting and still being able to hear people talking.

Ball cap, but it always seems to push the band up high enough to be annoying.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


Wendigee posted:

I'm just having trouble justifying a 300 dollar pair of ear pros, when a 70 dollar pair has reviews as just as good.

So was I. Then I did, and it's magnificent. Good peltors or sordins with gel cups will conform to your head better to seal out sound where cheapos will break the seal if you twist your head or move your face or even open your mouth. The NRR rating doesn't mean poo poo if the seals break because you opened your mouth and that little jawbone pressed outwards just enough to push the rubber/foam cup away from your skin. Or turn your head a little or whatever.

They're also super loving comfortable in a way words just can't explain. Better seals make for better hearing protection and more comfort makes for something you will actually want to wear and won't feel like cutting off your ears after 9 hours on the range.

Bummey fucked around with this message at 14:58 on May 17, 2017

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011



Grimey Drawer

Bummey posted:

So was I. Then I did, and it's magnificent. Good peltors or sordins with gel cups will conform to your head better to seal in sound where cheapos will break the seal if you twist your head or move your face or even open your mouth. The NRR rating doesn't mean poo poo if the seals break because you opened your mouth and that little jawbone pressed outwards just enough to push the foam cup away from your skin.

They're also super loving comfortable in a way words just can't explain. Better seals make for better hearing protection and more comfort makes for something you will actually want to wear and won't feel like cutting off your ears after 9 hours on the range.

I am still made I missed that deal

The Rat posted:

Smith Hudsons. As a bonus they don't have that "just got off the range/deployment" look that Oakleys tend to.

thank you can I put prescriptions in these?

Action Jesus posted:



I'm sorry is there any other kind of range headwear?

gently caress me, fidel cap all the way

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Bummey posted:

So was I. Then I did, and it's magnificent. Good peltors or sordins with gel cups will conform to your head better to seal out sound where cheapos will break the seal if you twist your head or move your face or even open your mouth. The NRR rating doesn't mean poo poo if the seals break because you opened your mouth and that little jawbone pressed outwards just enough to push the foam cup away from your skin. Or turn your head a little or whatever.

They're also super loving comfortable in a way words just can't explain. Better seals make for better hearing protection and more comfort makes for something you will actually want to wear and won't feel like cutting off your ears after 9 hours on the range.

if you're cheap(ish) you can drop the ComTac gels on Peltor 6Ss to get that same feel. Speaking of that feel for all you Sordin owners $41 gets you dat feel on amazon.com

Oh hey Sordins ship with gels seals for $268 on AMAZON DOT COM now.

wheres my beer fucked around with this message at 06:56 on May 17, 2017

stgdz
Nov 3, 2006

158 grains of smiley powered justice

these are oem
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Ca...d=ATVPDKIKX0DER


the rubber's suck on the peltors compared to these natural feeling gel cups.



Double up no matter what when shooting indoors.

gizmojumpjet
Feb 21, 2006

Fill your bowl to the brim and it will spill. Keep sharpening your knife and it will blunt.

Grimey Drawer

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Sorry to derail right out of the gates, but what do you guys do for eyewear when you use Sordins or Peltors?

I do foam plugs + Howard Leights, so it doesn't matter that my eye protectin breaks the cup seal a little bit, but I'd be nervous about that if I only had the one layer of ear pro.

I just got an ESS Crossbow Suppressor eyeshield and have some Rx inserts on backorder. They have thin, flexible temple arms so as not to create air gaps in ear cups. With the Rx inserts they cost me about 200 simoleons but if you aren't optically differently abled you can get into the basic kit for about fifty dollarydoos.

I haven't taken them to the range yet but they seem pretty nice.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Wickerman
Feb 26, 2007

Boom, mothafucka!

Basically, buy $30-80 electronic earpro and double up with cheapo plugs. Got it!

  • Locked thread