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El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Not where it counts, buddy.

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Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Well now, I'm not gonna talk about Judy. In fact, we're not gonna talk about Judy at all, we're gonna keep her out of it.

e: Uh oh, Mr. C in Twin Peaks

Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 03:15 on May 24, 2020

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Oh Andy


e: Very important! Very important!

El Jeffe fucked around with this message at 03:20 on May 24, 2020

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Yesssssssssssssss Glove Guy!

e: Hell yeah Lucy

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



drat, LUCY

She understands cellular phones now

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Glove Guy vs. Bob Orb

e: Hell yeah, RIP for real Mister C

Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 03:30 on May 24, 2020

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



BOB


e: Ah yes the big superimposed Cooper...

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

THE COOP OVERLAY

e: Now there are some things that will change

e2: Naido = Diane!

Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 03:33 on May 24, 2020

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



The one and only.

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

W̨͇̻̋̚͝E̬̟͙̅͂͆ ̬̂L̠̰̼̱̐͑̓̈́͢͞I̹̳͑͘V̞͎̤̙͖͌̔̿͊̑Ě͙ ̼͕͆̊Ï̟̹̦̳͑̀͐N̲̗̱͍̘͆̓̔̑͞S̜̆Ȋ̮D̡̚E̢͈̒͗́͢ ͚̖̞̋̉̏A ̡̯̪̾̀̔D͈̫̗͇̀̆̂̚R̢̘̤͐͗͑͂͜͠ͅẼ̙̠̒A͓͎̬̭̜̓̐͊̄́Ḿ̧͉̻̫̈̒͡

e: See you at the curtain call

Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 03:38 on May 24, 2020

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Real Diane's demeanor is so different, great job by Dern.


e: Oh lord we're loving with the timeline now

El Jeffe fucked around with this message at 03:46 on May 24, 2020

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Sheryl Lee's still the best screamer

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Us for seasons 1 and 2:

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

So remind me, was this extra footage shot for FWWM? How was this achieved?

e: Sarah Palmer's FREAKING OUT

Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 03:53 on May 24, 2020

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Series finale time!

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Rageaholic posted:

So remind me, was this extra footage shot for FWWM? How was this achieved?

Yeah I remember that coming up last time but I don't remember if there was ever an answer. I think it's unused though, I don't remember it from FWWM or the Missing Pieces.


edit: Yay new Dougie!!

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Someone wanna explain why the Mitchums just sort of show up at the Twin Peaks sheriffs station lol

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Data Graham posted:

Someone wanna explain why the Mitchums just sort of show up at the Twin Peaks sheriffs station lol

They rode with Cooper from Vegas. They're just buddies like that, it's great.

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

El Jeffe posted:

Yeah I remember that coming up last time but I don't remember if there was ever an answer. I think it's unused though, I don't remember it from FWWM or the Missing Pieces.
Yeah it has to be. Definitely wasn't in FWWM or Missing Pieces.

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Bye Diane

e: Richard and Linda

e2: Hell yeah, the gun frying scene!

Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 04:27 on May 24, 2020

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Cooper being so uncooperly.

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Laura doesn't exist anymore!

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



So much Lost Highway in this episode

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

El Jeffe posted:

So much Lost Highway in this episode
Seriously. The Nine Inch Nails should've come back to play The Perfect Drug.

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Nice try Judy!

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





The deep fried guns still crack me up.

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Poll time: Who thinks we should extend this rewatch to include the Twin Perfect video? It's 4 and a half hours long so it wouldn't be something done in a week, but I'm still interested to watch it.

AstroWhale
Mar 28, 2009


I don't thinkl there was any extra footage. The scream when she was hugging Bobby was in the movie. The past Laura was Sheryl Dern de-aged with CGI.

https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/..._translated_22/

quote:

Are there any invisible effect?

The only "invisible" effect that we had to deal with is in episode 17, when Cooper's holding Laura's hand in the forest. We had to de-age Sheryl Lee of 25 years.

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

drat, that's some convincing CGI then.

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?



sinnesloeschen posted:

You're talking about someone who(m?) the text denotes believes in "whistl[ing] past the graveyard".

It's a world of truck drivers.

Yeah, he doesn't get involved and that's okay. It still bothers me.

And Mr. C is the king of the truckers, I guess.


Quotes of the week:
"What the hell?" (Hawk)
"What's going on around here?" (Bobby)
"Took the words right out of my loving mouth." (Bradley Mitchum)

"What the gently caress just happened?" (Cowboy 1)
"What's going on?" (Carrie Page)
"What year is this?" (Cooper)

Magic
When episode 17 first aired, some article drew a comparison between the scene at the sheriff station and Kenneth Anger's Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome. Having now watched both, I can certainly see some similarities.

The most obvious parallel is Diane's red wig, which is a very clear reference to the Scarlet Woman, Jack Parson's sex magick partner who appears in that film. It only makes sense that Cooper and Diane go on to work their own sex magic by reenacting her surprise sex (in the dark, unsmiling Cooper looks a lot like Mr. C). The soundtrack evokes the night in which Judy entered Sarah Palmer by repeating the song My Prayer from Part 8. It's also easy to tell how tainted this moment and the ritual has become because the song is constantly overpowered by the music that announced the Woodsmen in Part 8 after Mr. C was shot. We know beforehand that something might go wrong, but when Diane has disappeared the next day, and Cooper walks out of a different motel, it becomes almost certain that something has happened, but maybe not the right thing.

A less direct parallel is the prolonged use of Cooper's face overlayed on top of the scene at the sheriff station. In Inauguration, Anger creates the effect of magic by overlaying different people in more and more frantic arrangements on top of each other. It creates a kind of orgasmic, frantic flurry of images. Here, the overlaying of Cooper's face instead creates incredible tension. There is something about his half opened, baffled expression and the slowed declaration "We live inside a dream" that gives off a feeling of wrongness, particularly when coupled with Cooper's cheery demeanour in the scene itself. Their magic feels utterly opposed. Anger's magic is a thing of love and creation. Cooper's magic is a corrupted magic that can no longer create beauty.

Global Concerns
The most radical shift in Cooper's personality, and the show's scope is that it starts focusing on a nearly cosmic scale.

One of the things that always stuck with me is when Albert finally breaks in front of sheriff Truman, and he says "I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global." and then Cooper declares "Albert's path is a strange and difficult one." In a way, Albert's approach seemed the opposite to Cooper's. Cooper is personable, he likes small towns and close-knit communities. Albert is the kind of guy who gets massively into global politics, but maybe he thinks individual grief is somewhat too small to care about.

Cooper's worldview also aligns with some of Lynch's comments in Lynch on Lynch. At one point, Lynch says: "Some people, just by their nature, think about the President of the United States and Africa and Asia. Their mind thinks over thousands of miles, big problems and big situations. That just completely leaves me cold. I can't get there. I like to think about a neighbourhood [Ö] a little local place that I can get into. The two are really the same: it's all based on human nature and the same sorts of things."

In that regard, the Return is an interesting change in his approach. There is still a strong sense of place in the show, but the aim has shifted. It's no longer possible to confine the story to one community. Bill Hastings and all those characters were left behind ages ago. The same goes for Las Vegas. This new scope is oppressive. As the Fireman says "You are very far away." and Carrie Page, half asleep, tells Cooper: "It's a long way...". The murder of Laura Palmer was something to be solved, but when you start going outward from that centre, the goal becomes very difficult to see.

Hubris
There is a little nod that Hawk shares with Cooper when he says "There are some things that will change". I guess Hawk does actually understand what Cooper means, and he's on board with it. Mark Frost has said in an interview that he believes Cooper shouldn't have tried to alter the past. His opinion is that it was hubris to even try. Calling Cooper solely responsible seems simplistic, though. If we're gonna point the finger, let's also look to the Fireman, Mike, Major Briggs, Philip Jeffries and Gordon Cole and Diane. I guess Hawk is also to blame, seeing as he gets it, and he doesn't object.

Just to give a counter argument, in the world of Twin Peaks where corruption has slowly spread outward from one point of origin, it certainly seems worth a try changing the past. There are so many things going wrong in that world that seem to be related to that moment. If you realised that you could fix it all if you did this one risky thing, maybe there is almost a duty to try.

If anything, it's almost worth it just because Pete got to go fishing that day. That guy really deserved a break.

The final shot
Laura's scream, and the image cutting to black is absolutely haunting, and I understand if people consider that the end of the show. However, I maintain that the last scene is actually Laura whispering to Cooper and him looking horrified. All the credits before this point were meant to be watched fully, and this credit sequence is no exception. It's the final mystery of the show. What did she tell him that freaked him out so much?

Some (more) random thoughts
The camera cutting rapidly between Mike and Cooper after the poem seems to indicate their similarity or even identical nature. As if they are basically the same person, just at different stages of the same journey.

Notable about the scene at Judy's is that Cooper takes care of these guys in much the same way as Mr. C. The fact that he points the gun at just about anyone in the place really reinforces that he doesn't trust anyone there. It also creates this strange situation in which the people suddenly don't seem so sure whether he's helping or robbing the place.

It doesn't take away from the scene at Judy's, but I did notice this time around that Cooper never picks up all three of the cowboy's guns, just two. When he fries them, however, he's got an additional third revolver to put in there.


Could I get a screenshot of:
- The theatre with Mr. C in a cage, and a light flashing to the left
- Cooper saying "You did it Freddie!"
- Cooper's face overlayed on top of himself
- Cooper overlayed on top of the three women with sandwiches
- The gross orb with half of Diane's face
- Cooper and Mike walking through the corridor with trees overlayed

- Mr. C burning in a chair
- Glastonbury Grove with the curtain
- Diane standing by the motel reception
- Carrie Page's living room (with the dead guy and the horse plate)
- That one creepy shot of the backseat of the car (before the other car passes them)
- The triple fade between the gas station, the road and Carrie Page's face

I know that's a lot of screenshots. I did some soul searching, and I really need them.

And More fucked around with this message at 09:44 on May 24, 2020

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I couldn't do it. I watched Episode 17 and had to stop for now. It's just too much of a gut-punch, the first time I watched it I found myself truly, desperately hoping AND believing that Cooper was going to save Laura. This time I knew he wouldn't and still those beautiful moments where Laura's corpse disappears from the beach and Pete walks past the empty shore and goes fishing just leave me teary-eyed. The shift from black and white to color when Laura takes Cooper's hand. How close they get to Glastonbury Grove (or was it just another thin point in the world) before the sudden tightening of the frame that marks her disappearance. Whatever occupies the hollow shell of Sarah Palmer screaming in rage in the house.... God it's such a good episode of television but so heart-wrenching.

The long shot of Cooper just drinking in the faces of all his friends again after all this time....

I'll wait a few days and finish up Episode 18. I never wanted this ride to end.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 09:29 on May 24, 2020

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?



Jerusalem posted:

I couldn't do it. I watched Episode 17 and had to stop for now. It's just too much of a gut-punch, the first time I watched it I found myself truly, desperately hoping AND believing that Cooper was going to save Laura. This time I knew he wouldn't and still those beautiful moments where Laura's corpse disappears from the beach and Pete walks past the empty shore and goes fishing just leave me teary-eyed. The shift from black and white to color when Laura takes Cooper's hand. How close they get to Glastonbury Grove (or was it just another thin point in the world) before the sudden tightening of the frame that marks her disappearance. Whatever occupies the hollow shell of Sarah Palmer screaming in rage in the house.... God it's such a good episode of television but so heart-wrenching.

The long shot of Cooper just drinking in the faces of all his friends again after all this time....

I'll wait a few days and finish up Episode 18. I never wanted this ride to end.

When I watched the show with my ɔoυƨin, I also stopped after episode 17 and we watched the last part in a separate sitting. Part 17 feels like the end of Twin Peaks. Julee Cruise takes you back around to the pilot episode. It's a good conclusion.

Similarly to how Cooper and Diane turn into Richard and Linda, Twin Peaks becomes something entirely different in Part 18. A new mystery with new rules. There is some value in taking that in on its own terms.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Grimey Drawer

ugh this show is loving amazing

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

And More posted:

The final shot
Laura's scream, and the image cutting to black is absolutely haunting, and I understand if people consider that the end of the show. However, I maintain that the last scene is actually Laura whispering to Cooper and him looking horrified. All the credits before this point were meant to be watched fully, and this credit sequence is no exception. It's the final mystery of the show. What did she tell him that freaked him out so much?
Maybe that he couldn't fix things with Judy no matter how hard he tried?

And More posted:

Could I get a screenshot of:
- The theatre with Mr. C in a cage, and a light flashing to the left
- Cooper saying "You did it Freddie!"
- Cooper's face overlayed on top of himself
- Cooper overlayed on top of the three women with sandwiches
- The gross orb with half of Diane's face
- Cooper and Mike walking through the corridor with trees overlayed

- Mr. C burning in a chair
- Glastonbury Grove with the curtain
- Diane standing by the motel reception
- Carrie Page's living room (with the dead guy and the horse plate)
- That one creepy shot of the backseat of the car (before the other car passes them)
- The triple fade between the gas station, the road and Carrie Page's face

I know that's a lot of screenshots. I did some soul searching, and I really need them.











Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Grimey Drawer


This is still one of the worst effects shots ever lmao. I love it but itís so poo poo

El Jeffe
Dec 24, 2009



Rageaholic posted:

Poll time: Who thinks we should extend this rewatch to include the Twin Perfect video? It's 4 and a half hours long so it wouldn't be something done in a week, but I'm still interested to watch it.

I'd rather watch it in my own time and report back, personally.


So glad we did this rewatch. I didn't watch the original seasons again before the return, so seeing it all front to back almost makes it comprehensible!

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Those sandwiches looked good, I hope the cast and crew got to enjoy them after the shot was done

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?



Rageaholic posted:

Poll time: Who thinks we should extend this rewatch to include the Twin Perfect video? It's 4 and a half hours long so it wouldn't be something done in a week, but I'm still interested to watch it.

I'm not against watching it. If you want to watch it in a week or two, I'll make an effort to actually sit through it.


Rageaholic posted:

Maybe that he couldn't fix things with Judy no matter how hard he tried?

That would make sense. Or maybe it's that he has to keep trying forever, like Sisyphus, with no chance of succeeding.

Thank you for all the great screenshots! It's been a journey getting here, and I've got a library of rad desktop backgrounds that prove it.


Escobarbarian posted:

This is still one of the worst effects shots ever lmao. I love it but it's so poo poo

Agreed. I especially like that Major Briggs' face is stretched, emphasising the early internet jpg vibes even more.

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Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

I can't remember
what she came here for

I can't remember
much of anything
anymore


Shredded Hen

Thanks so much for participating in the rewatch, y'all! It was such a nice way to spend a Saturday night for the past several months.

El Jeffe posted:

I'd rather watch it in my own time and report back, personally.

And More posted:

I'm not against watching it. If you want to watch it in a week or two, I'll make an effort to actually sit through it.
I might just put it in the OP and ask people to post their thoughts when they're able to watch it. Knowing me, with all this quarantine time, I'll probably watch it straight through, though I know not everyone is able to do that. Hell, I might even watch it today, coming fresh off the end of season 3.

e: I'm 2 hours in and this is definitely interesting. It brings up several points that I hadn't considered before this.

e2: Although I think he has a lot of the season 3 stuff wrong.

Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 01:21 on May 25, 2020

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