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Arist
Feb 13, 2012



I'm also the guy who had to fight Sandworm 91 times with four Berserkers in 2015, that was fun. Forgot all about that.

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NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009

...It shone as if its guts and skin, its bones were phosphorus. As if it were all cold and bright rock. A firefly, a death mask, a wooden skull.
A fegkarion. A moon elemental.


KataraniSword posted:

The mobile changes are designed for the average person who plays the game "master all jobs, run around with OP freelancers" style.

Which is the exact opposite of why the Fiesta works.
And the problem, as we both know, is that that's a really boring way to play. I've done it before on several occasions (years ago as a teenaged ingenu), and grinding poo poo up always took stupid amounts of time after which I could just curbstomp enemies with little challenge. Never again.

Vernatio
Nov 13, 2015

Questionable!


The Fiesta's almost here, hooray! I even bought a GBA cart this year, so I can Fiesta on the go! Although not having fast forward might kill my motivation to do repeat runs. I might switch to the SNES version halfway through the season.

Rirse
May 6, 2006

Mei #1 Fan



It going to be weird going from the stlyish Persona 5 to Final Fantasy V. Like to imagine a Gilgamesh fight with the stylish P5 menu.

Xad
Jul 2, 2009

Git gud or get rekt


Rirse posted:

imagine a Gilgamesh fight with the stylish P5 menu.

Be still, my heart.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy


Detheros posted:

Should I use the Fiesta State mod?





YES.

I still wont use it due to and hating myself

The OP just links to the dropbox. What does the mod actually do?

Kyrosiris
May 24, 2006

You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

John Lee posted:

The OP just links to the dropbox. What does the mod actually do?

It turns Neo Exdeath into a Cactuar and unlocks all jobs immediately, so you can avoid poo poo like quad thieves on Byblos because you got post-Library Fire/Earth jobs for Water/Fire.

Detheros
Apr 11, 2010

Great!


Unlocks all jobs at the start.

Edit: Beaten like all those Money Dogs.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

Sounds like cheating to me. I thought the whole point of the Fiesta was to make things more challenging by limiting your options, so why are we encouraging people to circumvent that?

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006


Fister Roboto posted:

Sounds like cheating to me. I thought the whole point of the Fiesta was to make things more challenging by limiting your options, so why are we encouraging people to circumvent that?

Because grinding up to make Byblos possible with certain classes ruins the rest of the game. Also most of the people who would use it have dozens of runs to their name at this point.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

The event is for charity though. If you don't like a job you've been given, you replace it at the job fair. Using a mod that makes things easier completely defeats the purpose of that, so I think that's really lovely.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015


It's exactly the same except people who get summoner or whatever as their first job aren't freelancing until the water crystal.

You still only have four jobs, and if you're going to circumvent that, you can do it just as easily on vanilla FFV.

You certainly don't have to use it, however.

edit: that and the fact that some crystals don't give all their jobs immediately, yeah.

Leraika fucked around with this message at May 19, 2017 around 05:31

Relax Or DIE
May 8, 2006

You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009

...It shone as if its guts and skin, its bones were phosphorus. As if it were all cold and bright rock. A firefly, a death mask, a wooden skull.
A fegkarion. A moon elemental.


Fister Roboto posted:

The event is for charity though. If you don't like a job you've been given, you replace it at the job fair. Using a mod that makes things easier completely defeats the purpose of that, so I think that's really lovely.
It only affects things in the early game, anyway, by making things less janky. For instance, I've fought Garula with four thieves, and the amount of grinding that went into that is only slightly less fun than grinding to beat up Byblos with those same four thieves. Or if you do have a full party of freelancers, then you have a boring but easy time of steamrolling everything with good gear until you can get access to your jobs. Inversely, some later jobs don't get their intended "starting" gear/abilities before you're supposed to access them, so early access to a dancer/summoner/ninja/ranger/time mage can actually be something of a hindrance. Starting out with access to all relevant jobs smooths the difficulty curve until you can get to the more interesting/devious content. And people will still be happy to use the job fair with the mod, because no amount of early access will fix the issues with (say) Monk/Berserker/Geomancer/Dragoon.

The bottom line is that cutting off early access for Chaos/Pure Chaos runs doesn't make things harder - it just makes them more tedious and boring until you've cleared that wall.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

So why not donate to the job fair instead?

Kyrosiris
May 24, 2006

You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

Whoosh.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



I've always felt the Fiesta mod actually made the game harder. Fighting Garula or Byblos with four Freelancers is much less tedious than doing the same with Four Bards who've got no access to songs yet.

It does allow for some unconventional strategies, though. Like instantly killing Liquid Flame with a Beastmaster by releasing a Mani Wizard.

Archenteron posted:

Wasn't there two competing goon bonus challenges, one for Knights with the full powered Brave Sword, and a contrarian one that was for Knights with full powered Chicken Knives

There were, yeah. IIRC, both maxed out their donations.

Detheros
Apr 11, 2010

Great!


Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

If it's just to reduce the tedium, the job fair can do that just as well.

Dragonatrix
Aug 16, 2009

You have offended STRINGIE! You must be punished!


Why not just Job Fair yourself the best party and not even bother with that whole silly random party thing? I don't get it. Why bother letting a bot determine what you use when you can just pick whatever you want? I mean, if you're just gonna grind anyway, why not skip the tedium and just Job Fair it!

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Ah, that history feature reminded me why I probably only did two runs last year.

Chaos
Shinryu / Exdeath badges
Dragoon Dragoon Dragoon Summoner.


Three dragoons is sooo boring. So of course it eventually just became a summoner and three armored summoners.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

Dragonatrix posted:

Why not just Job Fair yourself the best party and not even bother with that whole silly random party thing? I don't get it. Why bother letting a bot determine what you use when you can just pick whatever you want? I mean, if you're just gonna grind anyway, why not skip the tedium and just Job Fair it!

Are you trying to say that donating a bunch of money to charity would be a bad thing?

Like that's the whole point of it. You get a random party, and if you don't like it you can donate money to change it. Yeah, you can buy the perfect party with the job fair, but you'd also be donating a bunch of money on charity, and that's great. Modifying the game to make certain parties less difficult or less tedious goes against the spirit of the event.

Detheros
Apr 11, 2010

Great!


If I donate a bunch of money will you get off this hill you're dying on?

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

I'd donate every penny I had if goons stopped using "dying on a hill" to shut down a conversation.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

I'm not real.


I'd really love to join this year but I only have the phone version where I'm still on World 2 and I have a Master's project to worry about. I will cheer you guys on from the sidelines though!

AlphaKretin
Dec 25, 2014

A vase to face encounter.

...Vase to meet you?

...

GARVASE DAY!


What if I'm perfectly happy with how the party I was given plays for 90% of the game except this one early boss? Am I supposed to use the JOB FAIR to change my party for that one fight, then again to change back afterwards?

The guy who runs the drat thing accepts screenshots of Exdesth that prove the runner's been using the mod. If he's fine with it, why shouldn't you be?

AlphaKretin fucked around with this message at May 19, 2017 around 07:26

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

AlphaKretin posted:

What if I'm perfectly happy with how the party I was given plays for 90% of the game except this one early boss? Am I supposed to use the JOB FAIR to change my party for that one fight, then again to change back afterwards?

Yes, or just suck it up and grind it out. The job fair is the price you pay for not having to do that, if you want. What's wrong with donating to charity? That's the whole point of this event.

The guy running it probably doesn't have time to inspect every single screenshot to make sure they're valid. There's always been a strong element of trust in this. If you really wanted, you could cheat your rear end off in a wide variety of ways and nobody would be the wiser. I don't think that modding the game is on the same level as outright cheating, but it still goes against the spirit of the event, and that's why I don't think it should be encouraged ITT.

Dragonatrix
Aug 16, 2009

You have offended STRINGIE! You must be punished!


Fister Roboto posted:

goes against the spirit of the event.

So, uh, real question this time:

What exactly is the "spirit of the event"? Since apparently you're the only person in the thread who has it right, and all.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

It's beating a randomly assigned challenge where your options are constrained. Modding the game to change those constraints goes against that. I don't think this is a difficult concept.

Huzzah!
Sep 14, 2007



Fister Roboto posted:

It's beating a randomly assigned challenge that's meant to constrain your options. Modding the game to change those constraints goes against that. I don't think this is a difficult concept.

Im using the jobs the bot gave me. I dont see the problem.

berenzen
Jan 23, 2012

Check yourself. You're on fire

Your options are still constrained. Just if you now get 3 berserkers and a chemist, you're not 100% hosed trying to beat Living Flame or Sandworm, or be forced to grind for hours on end. And some of us don't necessarily have the disposable income to throw at the job fair liberally.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

Huzzah! posted:

Im using the jobs the bot gave me. I dont see the problem.

You're changing the game so that the jobs the bot gave you are less challenging or less tedious. That's the problem.

Dragonatrix
Aug 16, 2009

You have offended STRINGIE! You must be punished!


Fister Roboto posted:

It's beating a randomly assigned challenge where your options are constrained. Modding the game to change those constraints goes against that. I don't think this is a difficult concept.

Really? Because if changing things to adjust the constraints to be more fair to the player is contrary to the spirit then so too is the Job Fair but you don't have a problem with that.

Surely, then, the spirit has more to do with the charity drive rather then "you must play the game this way otherwise you are doing it wrong"?

Which leads me to my follow up question:

If the patch is such a problem to you why not do the sensible thing and make a pledge ITT for, say, $1/clear that doesn't use it to a max of $100? Surely that would be better for both the thread AND the spirit of the event than whining that people are having fun wrong.

That's not exactly a new thing and regardless of how much you complain about it, people are going to use it/not use it at their own discretion.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

Dragonatrix posted:

Really? Because if changing things to adjust the constraints to be more fair to the player is contrary to the spirit then so too is the Job Fair but you don't have a problem with that.

Surely, then, the spirit has more to do with the charity drive rather then "you must play the game this way otherwise you are doing it wrong"?

Which leads me to my follow up question:

If the patch is such a problem to you why not do the sensible thing and make a pledge ITT for, say, $1/clear that doesn't use it to a max of $100? Surely that would be better for both the thread AND the spirit of the event than whining that people are having fun wrong.

That's not exactly a new thing and regardless of how much you complain about it, people are going to use it/not use it at their own discretion.

But you donate money to use the job fair. That's the whole point. Using the mod circumvents that, even if it's just for one boss or whatever. You're cheating to get out of donating money to charity.

I'm not saying that you have to play the game a certain way. Like I already said, you can cheat your rear end off and nobody would know. I'm sure plenty of people already have. I think that's lovely, but no amount of complaining will change it.

My problem isn't that people cheat, it's that cheating is being encouraged ITT.

alcharagia
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


ive used both the fiesta state mod and the job fair, AT THE SAME TIME... how about that,

Dragonatrix
Aug 16, 2009

You have offended STRINGIE! You must be punished!


Except cheating is not encouraged within this thread. If you draw, say, White Mage for your Wind crystal then how does the patch help you there? The patch, if anything, makes the game harder, not easier. Remember, if you're playing a variant where you CAN get Water/Fire/Earth jobs early, then you're stuck using Freelancer until it becomes available. If you draw, say, Dragoon for your Wind job (which is 100% possible) then you're using Freelancers until then and if you think that's harder than 4 Dragoons with lovely knives then do I have some bad news for you.

And after you get the Earth job, which is about a quarter of the way through the game... what does the patch do to make things easier exactly? Turning NED into a Jumbo Cactuar, visually only, also makes things harder if you don't remember exactly what each part of NED already is, does and what you can do it in turn.

berenzen
Jan 23, 2012

Check yourself. You're on fire

Do you think that someone that makes a freelancer-only save state after each crystal boss cheating as well?

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012



Having jobs a little earlier is really not an issue.

Fister Roboto posted:

But you donate money to use the job fair. That's the whole point. Using the mod circumvents that, even if it's just for one boss or whatever. You're cheating to get out of donating money to charity.

You can use the Fiesta mod and still end up using the Job Fair.

Additionally you can also just donate, normally, while using the mod for your run. It's almost as if the vast majority of donations are not tied to the Job fair.

Golden Goat fucked around with this message at May 19, 2017 around 08:51

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



That does make me wonder something. Since RK mentioned he doesn't like the Fiesta mod, how is Chaos supposed to work if your first job is from the Earth Crystal, but subsequent ones aren't. Say you get Samurai/Black Mage. Are you supposed to make everyone a Black Mage at the Water Crystal? Or at the Wind Crystal? Or go with a mix of Freelancers and Black Mages? Or not use the Black Mage at all until you've unlocked Samurai?

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Man with Hat
Dec 26, 2007

Open up your Dethday present
It's a box of fucking nothing


College Slice

Fister Roboto posted:

But you donate money to use the job fair. That's the whole point. Using the mod circumvents that, even if it's just for one boss or whatever. You're cheating to get out of donating money to charity.

I'm not saying that you have to play the game a certain way. Like I already said, you can cheat your rear end off and nobody would know. I'm sure plenty of people already have. I think that's lovely, but no amount of complaining will change it.

My problem isn't that people cheat, it's that cheating is being encouraged ITT.

If anything it makes the charity more money to use the mod because someone who has to fight sandworm with four zerkers because all other jobs are from the earth crystal more than once ever will just stop playing the game and never return in a fit of rage.

(I'll still not use it though and end up having to kill thousands of Nakks)

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