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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:Also if you're into guns and want to keep them, you should probably be for some forms of gun control. Eventually someone is going to really up the ante and its going to involve multiple people and bombs, while democrats have control, and you're not going to like the results of it. I hold out hope that democrats can put together a decent gun bill, but I'm not holding my breath because I've seen the quality they come up with. If we could just prevent the lunatics from acting out in the meantime it would be wonderful, but we can't and they won't, and we'll get knee-jerk reaction laws. Gun safes, gun cabinets, and gun locks, are a decent standard to make the norm. The only problem is cost. You have to keep the bare minimum affordable and not an entry barrier or you'll raise the ire of people who can't afford a safe, or don't live somewhere they can install one (and/or their advocates). Training is good for all ages. Making sure children understand that guns aren't toys and aren't for playing with is important. Making teenagers understand that guns aren't toys and life isn't a loving videogame is important. My biggest fear though is the democrats are gonna gently caress the whole thing up and allow the republicans to stay in power. The country is going to be even more hosed if that happens. 45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:the lawnmower video guy loses a leg fyi That is why I didn't want to link it. I figured anyone in GiP with half a brain would understand that turning a lawnmower into an IED is a horrible decision. And since it doesn't get said enough, gently caress the nra. Those morons have made things worse since they did their little coup and went hardline no-compromise.
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Feb 20, 2018 05:35
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I just saw the latest video some kids took as their classroom was being cleared. Just absolutely everything in that is disturbing. The kids standing around petrified as a dead kid is bleeding out on the floor in front of them, them leaning in to film it, the cops leading them out the classroom, past yet more dead bodies in the hallway...just loving everything, jesus christ
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Feb 20, 2018 05:56
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kupachek posted:Stuff With you on most of this but with the safe thing there'd have to be a Heller exception for reasonable home/family/self defense. One that has very clear consequences if it's used by law enforcement to harass people minorities. The NRA only cares about the NRA. They can go to hell. Not just for the poo poo they pulled in the 90's but that's a large part of it. If you're anywhere near a strict Constitution type don't make the mistake of thinking they're on your side. They'll sell you and everyone else out to fudds and old people they can scare for money. Steezo fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 08:53
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Steezo posted:One that has very clear consequences if it's used by law enforcement to harass people minorities. Need these kind of protections for more than just safes/storage. It's (firearms/self defense) been historically leveraged against minorities and those deemed undesirable (poor, among other types) by those in control and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Some of those tiny pistol safes are promising, a balance between low cost and basic security. They cost about the same as a hipoint, and would determine casual access like curious offspring and quick smash and grab type of thieves. Can still get them open and have your handgun ready in short order.
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Feb 20, 2018 15:16
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Yeah, I'll never be an NRA member. I wish there was a more viable non-partisan/left leaning equivalent to the NRA that I could become a member of.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:15
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DoktorLoken posted:Yeah, I'll never be an NRA member. I wish there was a more viable non-partisan/left leaning equivalent to the NRA that I could become a member of. I think that if people want the right to bear arms to remain longer than a generation, they’d wise up and ditch the NRA, or orchestrate a coup to get LaPierre and the other crazies out as soon as possible. It’s pretty clear that they’re going to be on the losing side in the long term, and they may end up taking the whole 2A with them when they finally collapse.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:55
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The NRA and GOP seem to have a very similar problem in that regard.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:26
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DoktorLoken posted:Yeah, I'll never be an NRA member. I wish there was a more viable non-partisan/left leaning equivalent to the NRA that I could become a member of. Pink Pistols is a pro-LGBT org that does firearms self defense stuff. http://www.pinkpistols.org/ And the Liberal Gun Club is a lefty org. https://www.theliberalgunclub.com/
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Feb 20, 2018 17:28
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DoktorLoken posted:Yeah, I'll never be an NRA member. I wish there was a more viable non-partisan/left leaning equivalent to the NRA that I could become a member of. Redneck Revolt as well
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Feb 21, 2018 21:48
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Wasabi the J posted:Redneck Revolt as well Just make sure you nope the gently caress out if they start getting a little too inclined towards violence.
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Feb 21, 2018 21:53
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yeah if they tell you to run over liberals in a false flag move after giving you a briefcase of green dollar bills signed by soros just say no
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Feb 21, 2018 23:31
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Mar 3, 2018 17:06
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GUN CONTROL QUESTION AHEAD Hey fellas. I was at the march yesterday, and a questioned popped into my idiot head. See, I like shooting for sport. I don’t carry, I live in the suburbs so I don’t need some home defense gun, but I also am starting to really hate guns in general. Really, I would be fine with just banning all the guns because we really don’t seem to be able to handle them as a country. But until then, I still like shooting as a hobby. How can I reconcile those things? Is it possible to participate in the gun control fight while still enjoying a shooting hobby?
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Mar 25, 2018 16:51
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Triggering John Birchers is never wrong, Deathy. Have you ever messed with spring piston air rifles? All the initial recoil is forwards, so they need a really weird grip and technique and it's a worthy challenge if you're coming to it from powder firearms. There are pre-charged pneumatics out now that can drop a whitetail. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 25, 2018 |
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Mar 25, 2018 17:00
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I haven't shot in years and living in Texas I have no desire to associate myself with gun owners. I think I last renewed my range membership around 2011-2012 and the crowd was sketchy as hell and racist as gently caress. I don't imagine it is any better.
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Mar 25, 2018 17:07
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Deathy McDeath posted:GUN CONTROL QUESTION AHEAD I would say start thinking a little bit more about what your new opinion would entail. What would actually have to happen to make it legal, how would gun seizures actually work, and how well would that go over. Etc. Also, I'd read a bit more history...it's full of examples of the citizenry being abused by a government that has a full monopoly of force, or the government being unable to defend the unarmed population when necessary. The examples don't show up every decade, but when they do appear, the results are disastrous. The idea that "it could never happen here" is 100% bullshit. We're seeing seeds planted literally now, through this administration and that its horrible ideas (death penalty for drug dealers, overt racism/regressive policies, etc) actually have some support in the population. Edit: Get an air rifle and gift your guns to me.
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Mar 25, 2018 17:25
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Deathy McDeath posted:But until then, I still like shooting as a hobby. How can I reconcile those things? Is it possible to participate in the gun control fight while still enjoying a shooting hobby? Even the countries with the strictest gun control laws have avenues for people to shoot as a sport. To be fair, it does become more expensive and time consuming once you introduce training, storage, and licensing requirements.
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Mar 25, 2018 17:26
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He's toxic as hell and no one wants to be on a losing team that racks up plea deals at best
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Mar 25, 2018 17:45
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boop the snoot posted:how about we meet in the middle: you need a professional health screening prior to purchasing any firearm, and it has to be renewed every three years. Cole had a very good idea. The one loophole I see is that healthy brains still sometimes have broke brain children who will take the parent's gun and shoot their classmates. I move that having children be included in the list of disqualifying broke-brain traits.
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Mar 25, 2018 19:00
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Godholio posted:Also, I'd read a bit more history...it's full of examples of the citizenry being abused by a government that has a full monopoly of force, or the government being unable to defend the unarmed population when necessary. The examples don't show up every decade, but when they do appear, the results are disastrous. The idea that "it could never happen here" is 100% bullshit. We're seeing seeds planted literally now, through this administration and that its horrible ideas (death penalty for drug dealers, overt racism/regressive policies, etc) actually have some support in the population. I've said it before but Athens Tennessee and the Black Panther Party (before the government infiltration and astroturfing) are examples of it being used as intended within at least one human lifetime. Also the Roof Koreans during the LA riots. The second amendment has never been about sport, it's always been about a check on government monopoly on violence.
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Mar 25, 2018 23:30
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Deathy McDeath posted:GUN CONTROL QUESTION AHEAD I feel you. I am in the same boat pretty much. I have a DD M4 and a Savage Scout(which is bolt action) that I love shooting, but I understand that something should be done about these mass shootings. I don't think owning an AR makes me a monster, but I hate a lot of right-wing views on gun ownership too. It's complicated I guess. I was an 11B for six years and I think its weird seeing civilians be gun crazy. I know a guy with multiple ARs, body armor, AKs, etc... I just recently started looking into recurve bows, it looks fun. Might pick one up in April.
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Mar 26, 2018 00:22
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Steezo posted:The second amendment has never been about sport, it's always been about a check on government monopoly on violence. That ship sailed long ago
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Mar 26, 2018 01:00
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Proud Christian Mom posted:That ship sailed long ago No it hasn't. Do you want me to start quoting the Supreme Court as to why you're wrong? Ever read the remarks on Heller vs DC or McDonald vs Chicago? Because those two are recent. Or do you want me going further back, to when predominately black churches had armed security because of a KKK bombing and terror campaign? Shall Not Be Infringed. Real simple language. Kinda like Congress Shall Make No Law...
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Mar 26, 2018 01:19
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Smiling Jack posted:Well you could take them all to the same hotel room and use them to murder over fifty innocent people He literally could have done the same thing with 2 or 3 ARs. Who the gently caress gives a poo poo if he had 23 rifles up there if he only fired a couple of them? The focus on the amount of guns some people accumulate, and idiots on the news calling 2 pistols, a Mosin, a lovely hunting rifle, a poo poo-tier crossbow, and an AR15 an "arsenal" and breathlessly talking about hundreds, or GASP over a thousand rounds of ammo, is loving stupid.
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Mar 26, 2018 01:25
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Deathy McDeath posted:GUN CONTROL QUESTION AHEAD Certainly, there are folks who can't seem to handle gun ownership, but I think we all know that the idiots who get the spotlight are an incredibly small minority here. Consider yourself for a moment: you're probably just a normal dude who happens to like shooting. The vast majority of folks out there with guns are ordinary people like you and me who happen to enjoy shooting; they're not mall ninjas, they're not white supremacists, and they're not buck-toothed sister-fuckers. "Ordinary" people are just that. Why do I say this? People haven't changed much since the days when you could mail order anti-tank rifles to your door, but the way that we interact with one another has. We live in a society where everybody is connected twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. There have recently been plenty of good articles exploring the ways that social media, 24/7 news, and an always-connected society gently caress with peoples' mental health and generally make life miserable, and the biggest takeaways from those are that a) echo chambers are incredibly easy to form and b) the opinions you're exposed to every day aren't necessarily representative of the populace as a whole. This isn't to imply some wacky tinfoil hat conspiracy poo poo is going on, merely that it's easier than ever for voices to reach further, especially when they're curated (for better or worse) and targeted at a particular audience (again, for better or worse). Unfortunately, some voices scream louder than others, and sometimes in an always-connected society some of those voices will drown out others, especially the quiet voices of people who are just trying to mind their own business and don't want to be bothered. The country we live in today is the safest it has been in generations. I don't think I need to preach to you guys about how poverty is the biggest driving factor behind violence in any given community, or show you lots of charts about how crime has been trending down for decades, or go on about how few crimes are committed by ordinary people who just so happen to own firearms. I think it's worth briefly mentioning these things here if only so that you keep them in mind the next time some unhinged lunatic starts screaming about blood in the streets or fascism or some other nonsense. You do what you want to do. That's the beauty of a society in which you're free to make your own choices. e: typos Naked Bear fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 01:28
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Steezo posted:No it hasn't. Do you want me to start quoting the Supreme Court as to why you're wrong? Ever read the remarks on Heller vs DC or McDonald vs Chicago? Because those two are recent. Or do you want me going further back, to when predominately black churches had armed security because of a KKK bombing and terror campaign? let me know when you're ready to start shooting police ok
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Mar 26, 2018 05:03
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Proud Christian Mom posted:let me know when you're ready to start shooting police ok FYI this is why the anti-rights crowd isn't taken seriously. "Oh you don't agree with me, and pointed out a fact, let me attack you as a person".
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Mar 26, 2018 06:32
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Steezo posted:FYI this is why the anti-rights crowd isn't taken seriously. "Oh you don't agree with me, and pointed out a fact, let me attack you as a person". And lovely debaters like you make the pro-gun side look bad.
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Mar 26, 2018 07:01
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"well regulated militia" this is the part where you try and claim every white male 16-40 is technically part of a militia
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Mar 26, 2018 13:55
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Mar 26, 2018 15:11
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Smiling Jack posted:"well regulated militia"
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Mar 26, 2018 18:04
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Naked Bear posted:I, too, have a difficult time grasping English sentence structure. Commas as a dramatic flourish are hard. A lot of you are stumbling over the part that goes, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which is different language from "Congress shall make no law" because it also applies to the states. The government was never meant to have a monopoly on violence. Unless you somehow reject the notion that the people referred to in First and Fourth amendments aren't the same as the Second. Supreme Court rejects the notion that they're separate people as it usually means "voter". To quote the Heller ruling, "the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home." Steezo fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 23:33
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I'll buy it if we ditch having a standing military
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Mar 26, 2018 23:48
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shame on an IGA posted:I'll buy it if we ditch having a standing military A standing army is provided for in the Constitution. You just have to re-fund the Army every 2 years. Now the Air Force, that's unconstitutional!
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Mar 27, 2018 01:49
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shame on an IGA posted:I'll buy it if we ditch having a standing military I think it's the National Guard that could conceivably be thought of as a militia nowadays.
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Mar 27, 2018 02:08
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Smiling Jack posted:"well regulated militia" Plus, the framers empowered Congress to issue letters of marque and reprisal, so clearly they considered the idea that private individuals would be able to own not just small arms, but warships and cannon.
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Mar 27, 2018 02:48
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Kuroyama posted:I think it's the National Guard that could conceivably be thought of as a militia nowadays. Except the NG isn't really what they thought of as a militia either. The tie is basically heraldry.
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Mar 27, 2018 06:02
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I have a really tough time taking pro gun extreme right wingers serious when they say "they'll have to take the guns from my cold dead hands" when they are in the process of getting their foot amputated because of uncontrolled diabetes and other health issues. Like I mean if you're loving Rambo then sure. He stopped an entire police squad and the national guard. But the guys I've seen talk more about what medications their docs switched on them than they do walking in a day. Like, come on guys, get it together. And I'm not really political and stuff I just can't even right now with this.
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Mar 27, 2018 06:18
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Kuroyama posted:I think it's the National Guard that could conceivably be thought of as a militia nowadays. The Dick act of 1903 made the militia/National Guard part of the Federal forces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Act_of_1903
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Mar 27, 2018 11:18
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From that very page:quote:This law repealed the Militia Acts of 1792 and designated the militia [per Title 10, Section 311] as two groups: the Unorganized Militia, which included all able-bodied men between ages 17 and 45, and the Organized Militia, which included state militia (National Guard) units receiving federal support.
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Mar 27, 2018 14:43
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