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Old lock was so cool. Felt good to use even when you didnt have a real target. Great sound, great design. I like provisions a lot, I'd have a lot more fun with this game if it were a card game simulator where I built decks and sent them on ladder and got results so I didn't have to play the game. That's a huge problem - I had no issue playing the same decks over and over in old gwent.
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Oct 25, 2018 17:27
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I always saw a design flaw in Gwent, since the start. Let's imagine they 1000 cards in the game, but because they have 5 separate factions, it means the deckbuilding is limited to 200 cards. Now compare to Magic, or to the upcoming Artifact which works in a very similar way. There are five colors, and each one can be mixed. You can plan green, or black or red decks. Or green/black, blue/red, etc. The possibilities multiply a lot. Imagine if you could synergyze Skellige and NR, etc. When the meta establishes in Gwent, there are only two or three 'viable' decks per faction, in part because of this. Well, it isn't exactly like I described in Gwent as there are neutral cards, still, the possibility space is much bigger in games where you can mix and match more freely. Of course, as they release more and more card expansions, it will be a less notable issue.
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Oct 25, 2018 17:49
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It's different. I don't think gwent was significantly staler than modern mtg would get after 9 months of no changes or new cards. (And that was pre-provision.) Gwent is so much more consistent than MTG that it can't allow you to do anything sometimes (which is effectively the color tradeoff in mtg, more cards for consistency). Instead it lets you do something, usually. It would be interesting if a gwent-like allowed you to choose two factions, but card synergies have to be locked down a lot tighter in gwent due to deck/hand size. We don't have a huge set but the majority of the (non-NR) cards seem legit playable, which is very unusual as CCGs go. Gwent shapes which decks are playable by limiting the available cards, mtg does it by printing broken "pushed" mythic cards. It only appears more open in mtg. No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Oct 25, 2018 |
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Oct 25, 2018 18:21
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TB spoilers The fact that when Colwell leaves you, you receive a fake coin as his card replacement is a nice clue of his true nature.
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Oct 25, 2018 18:48
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his card's ability in multiplayer gwent makes it very obvious.
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Oct 25, 2018 18:49
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From the new Gwent, I'm not a fan of how 'capped' it feels in some aspects, like capped hand size or capped row size. But for the rest, I like it. I like the Order system as a way to give a chance the opponent to remove the card if he thinks it's very valuable, basically the equivalent to summon sickness, but also they still keep the ability to play an effect immediately (deploy/zeal) for variety, or even play around with re-using the effect with Charges. I like having different mulligans for leaders, and different number of uses of effects, it gives more variety between them. I actually like having less consistency of the game, with a minimum of 25 cards on the decks and max 2 bronzes, although I know some people loved how consistent it was before. But for me, it was more like hyper-consistency, with decks playing very similarly between games, and the games themselves being too focused on deckbuilding (where you design your synergistic super combo of death based on a concept, like siege engines or consume or dwarf buff) and the games were more about putting your super combo on the board and the opponent doing the same, and he who had a better combo won. I mean, the game is still notably more consistent than other card games, but a lil' less than before. Obviously having some kind of solution to the coin flip is good, too. Weather feels in a good spot, after so many iterations of being OP or UP. edit: Swim shows 14 different good decks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lVNvzsTSME
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Oct 25, 2018 21:39
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How do you access the southern part of Wetterton? I just dealt with the bandits in the lord's estate so I dunno if I should've had access to that part by now or not.
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Oct 26, 2018 02:27
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The new Gwent seems a lot less dynamic. In the original Gwent there were lots of high impact plays that could massively swing the game if set up right. The new Gwent feels like a lot more of a grind - once a player has a 6/7 point lead in a round it's really hard to ever reduce that enough to win. I guess the overall power level is similar but individual card impact is far less which means that very few plays are satisfyingly powerful. I've won and lost games ground out by a few points on round 3 where the result never seemed in doubt after about half way through round 1 and it doesn't feel very exciting even though the points score is ultimately very close. That said Deathwish Monsters is fun to play, especially if you get Ge'els to stick. Just having 1 free Deathwish every round from the hero ability is really good and is quite reliable in forcing an extra card from your opponent even in a losing round. My hope is for more graveyard interactions to be introduced to add some more complexity and planning.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:18
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I think there's potentially more reach than before and the bronze -> gold gap is bigger than it's ever been. But I think the game also feels slow and boring for other reasons and I don't really like playing it. There's already some graveyard if you're looking for it between bearmaster and ghoul decks.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:30
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I'm liking thronebreaker but my lack of gwent knowledge is making it draaaaaag. Will enemies start using the same cards? Cause so far every fight has been brand new cards I have to read and learn every time.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:44
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Most of the factions have a staple of cards they use regularly that you can learn to expect seeing, but they also spice it up constantly with one-off cards. My advice to anyone struggling/new would be to put 5 of the lyrian scouts in your deck ASAP, I believe they unlock in chapter 2. That's the single most degenerate craftable card I've seen up to chapter 4, by a large margin
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Oct 26, 2018 16:48
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what does lyrian scout do? drummer and scytheman and arbalest have been trivializing the game all on their own so i havent read the cards all that carefully.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:57
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4 point dude with a 4 turn timer that draws you a card when the timer is up. Basically an old gwent card advantage spy, but +4 points though you have to protect him through the timer. If you can get even a few to go off you will almost always have laughably crushing amounts of card advantage
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Oct 26, 2018 16:59
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yeaah that card sounds like you have to pay attention to it. when you can just drummer and meve longsword every two turns to 2-0 every battle its hard to bother.
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Oct 26, 2018 17:03
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I run out of row space after 3-4 turns of upgraded drummer spam so I'm not sure what I'd do with extra cards anyway
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Oct 26, 2018 17:06
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The AI is not very good at targeting it, so it doesn't need that much babysitting. When you start combining it with drummers and stuff the only limit on your OP-ness is hitting the max unit count on the board. Broke: Winning 2-0 Woke: Winning 2-0 4 cards up
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Oct 26, 2018 17:07
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Almost 10 hours played of TB. The game has the flaw, like The Wicher 3, of being too easy. Like, drat, how hard can be to put a very hard more that is challenging, for the veterans. And it isn’t like I’m a pro Gwent player, I played casually for two months close to one year ago, and except the puzzles, I’m beating the fights by a difference of 40-70 points, playing in Hard already. BTW, Nilfgaard in this game seems to be a really evil empire in TB. Slaving people, burning entire cities, being cocky and mocking you, etc, and it’s a different tone than the one used in The Witcher 2/3, where they were presented in a bit more neutral guy, the bad guys, but more like, just another side in the war, not inherently evil. The typical grey morality from The Witcher games is presented in hard decisions you have to take in a hard situation, and less in the characters or the setting itself. Meve is presented as very upright queen who will fight to the death the enemy, and I think it would have been interesting to remark more her flaws, she seems uncompromising to a fault, she is uptight, she doesn’t seem to be able to use a more broad perspective. For example there was a moment that seemed funny to me, in her capital she exclaims, without a pinch of irony, how Nilfgaard will stole their freedoms if they surrender. Funny, because she said that as an absolute monarch! Her normal citizens will have as much freedom under Emhyr than under her. Although, you know, there could be a way to reconcile everything; the story you play is a tale told by the guy from the intro. So it could be an ‘embellished’ tale, or a biased look or hearsay, not what happened in an objective way.
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Oct 26, 2018 17:32
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Nilfgaard has always been the bad guys in the witcher. Problem is that W3 had a bunch of content cut and a lot of it was in regards to the Nilfgaard invasion, so all the hosed up poo poo like slavery isn't in. CDPR also toned down a lot the Emperor for the game, whom in the books wants to have sex with his own daughter to create the ubermensch.
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Oct 26, 2018 17:52
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i liked W3 nilf as a concept, they get too villainous with all the slavery. The different factions had to find reasons to accept or reject nilfgaard's global capitalism. So far it's hard for me to tell what meve is really fighting for, but the games' NR always had the weakest case against embracing Nilfgaard (mostly being driven by crazy monarchs).
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Oct 26, 2018 18:08
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I think it's one of those things one might find hard to understand if your country doesn't have a long history of being constantly erased by and absorbed into different Empires throughout it's history.
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Oct 26, 2018 18:22
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Electronico6 posted:I think it's one of those things one might find hard to understand if your country doesn't have a long history of being constantly erased by and absorbed into different Empires throughout it's history. i.e. Northern Realms (I dunno if one kingdom is specifically supposed to be though) are the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth No Wave posted:yeaah that card sounds like you have to pay attention to it. when you can just drummer and meve longsword every two turns to 2-0 every battle its hard to bother. Care to elaborate? Most of my battles are going by the skin of my teeth, so any tips and help are really appreciated
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Oct 26, 2018 18:31
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Electronico6 posted:I think it's one of those things one might find hard to understand if your country doesn't have a long history of being constantly erased by and absorbed into different Empires throughout it's history. dead comedy forums posted:Care to elaborate? Most of my battles are going by the skin of my teeth, so any tips and help are really appreciated Mull hard for your drummers, use meve longsword on cooldown, then odo once you've used drummers a few times (if you have him in hand). This will at least get you halfway through chapter 4 (i havent gotten farther yet) because with the cooldown banner your scythemen become crazy engines. No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Oct 26, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2018 18:39
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Flayer posted:The new Gwent seems a lot less dynamic. In the original Gwent there were lots of high impact plays that could massively swing the game if set up right. The new Gwent feels like a lot more of a grind - once a player has a 6/7 point lead in a round it's really hard to ever reduce that enough to win. I guess the overall power level is similar but individual card impact is far less which means that very few plays are satisfyingly powerful. I've won and lost games ground out by a few points on round 3 where the result never seemed in doubt after about half way through round 1 and it doesn't feel very exciting even though the points score is ultimately very close. I'm not sure how you concluded that individual card impact is low when playing a deck with Ge'els. Sure he doesn't immediately swing the board the turn you play him, but over the course of a round he's like 20-30 points in one card, easy. There's a reason you'll see just as many Deathwish decks running Eredin as there are with Elder. In terms of actually big immediate swings, I've seen a few out there. Nilfgaard Knight + Rainfarn + a lock + Vattier is solid, especially if your opponent was going tall with a unit already. Sabrina + Hubert can be huge. Draug is a really fun one when it goes off. A lot of these require more setup that simply "play card from hand, gain 20+ points," but I think that's a good thing since it provides more opportunity for interaction.
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Oct 26, 2018 18:59
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I beat the entire campaign the other day, and I have to say I really enjoyed it. The story was a lot of fun, and it felt like a good telltale game, where I'd run between fun story bits doing gimmicky puzzles and challenges. The puzzles were definitely the highlight of the game for me though, with tons of variety and lots of fun gimmicks. I felt like I had trivialized the main card game itself by about halfway through the game, even on hard mode, where the player is handed a slew of overpowered cards about halfway through the game because of camp upgrades and general gold OPness. However, I do have a ton of experience with multiplayer gwent, and got on the pro-ladder once, so I'm not a good general gauge of how difficult it should be. Spoilers for how I deck built and some early, minor game spoilers. A thing to know about Thronebreaker is that the majority of battles before map 4 consist of one round, and it switches to about 50/50 after it, and most fights will have some kind of gimmick cards. Knowing that, I found the best strategy was usually just to kill the enemy gimmick cards. To accomplish that, I just used the hounds cards for targeted damage and the drummers for consistency, with the manticore head relic for chip damage. For most of the game, my deck, which consistently won round 1 and 2 by about 100 points, consisted of every gold, which are all very high value, except the witch, the dog, and the skelligans, with the witch being mostly inconsistent on what would make her activate, Knickers the dog being too small and just filling up board space most the time, and the skelligans being all about their own gimmick. Then I'd use: Several types of removal trinkets, mulliganing away whichever ones seemed less likely to be useful, but the highlights were definitely Alzur's Thunder, which you get near the end of map 2 and basically ended gimmick fights by itself, Decoy for replaying golds, and Blizzard, which you get for a random hearthstone puzzlegame about 1/4th the way through map 3, which pops off 2 random trinkets which was always good for a laugh, then whatever the latest and greatest trinket you pick up. 2-4 drummers, depending on how consistently I could pull things between hero powers and trinkets, and because at 5 drummers I'd consistently have filled the board with mostly low value crap and pulled golds without wanting too. Super synergistic with the early hero power that lets you decide your next top card, and all around MVP for the majority of the game. 2 Dog firebombers, because weather effects are extremely powerful, the AI mostly ignores fire, and how typically gimmick fights would line things up behind a gate. Only 2 because I typically wanted to mulligan to start with them anyway, and drawing extra with the drummers was very likely. 4 Slingers, because targeted damage is extremely good, pulling things into fire is good, and you can always target your relic if there's only 1-2 enemies on the board. Also buffed gaston, which was good, and they become extremely, OP strong when you get the upgraded version, where they become extremely powerful, single charge, 3 instances of 4 damage that can be recharged by golds. At no point after I got these did I pull them out of my deck. 1-3 Dog cavalry, which do 1 targeted damage. Not very good by themselves, and I'd often find myself eliminating the entire enemy board rendering them mostly useless. Much better early on thanks to drummer synergy, but I kept 1 in my deck for almost the entire game because of how useful sniping at a single target is. 2+ Lyrian blacksmiths, let you reuse artifacts. Less useful when you first can unlock them, and if you don't have or upgrade the dwarf to help artifact bomb, but the effect is extremely good. Better to add more later when you have more ways to play artifacts, because the drummers can pull them too early and leave them a dead card. 3-4 Lyrian Cavalry, which can pull each other every time you use a hero power. Very high power and good deck thinning, while also making for great mulligan fodder. At one point I had a trinket, Marching orders, which pulled all copies of a card from your deck and played them, where I'd run 5 of these and be able to pull about 55 points in 2 turns while thinning out 4 cards. It was very powerful and consistent for winning round 1, which let me put in less drummers. Outside of these core cards, I tried a bunch of the others, but generally found them gimmicky and clunky, and generally slightly less good. Stuff like the support units required specific combos, or the warmachines and arbalests which required filling up precious board space that was mostly always at a premium. Arbalests and Scythemen are good filler cards early, but I'd cut them as soon as you have access to better thin or less contingent damage.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:08
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Yeah, the difficulty of the campaign is too easy. I don't even like hardcore games (Dark Souls eat all) but I would like to think a bit in combat and have to not do obvious mistakes. I'm doing decks without any synergy, just putting the new cards whenever I receive one, and even when I do a mistake I win. Just 5 minutes ago I misclicked with Meve's ability broad sword and instead of clicking on a 7 unit which had 3 copies (12 dmg), I clicked on a 1 power unit (1 dmg). It didn't matter, of course, 11 power difference is nothing when I'm beating them by 40-60 points.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:14
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Thronebreaker could definitely use a difficulty that's tuned more like the hard mode in the hearthstone adventures, where you're expected to try and fail a few times, learn about the enemy deck, and ultimately make your own specific counter deck. But ultimately I don't know how well it would work considering the Thronebreaker card pool isn't that large and there are a gently caress ton of battles that would have to be retuned. CDPR has a pretty good history of post-launch support though so I hope they consider it.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:25
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Yeah the difficulty curve is a mess. I'm in the final act and the puzzles and combat are getting easier, if anything. Act 4 was a long slog of the same monster/Nilfgaard battles over and over again with very little variety and the puzzles are all much more straighforward. Made me feel like they were running out of ideas to challenge the player. Gwent just doesn't feel capable of the sort of variety that would make a game like this really tick. The story, writing, and acting are generally top notch, though.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:49
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I don't think TB is exceptional or mindblowing but it's good! The story choices you have to make are really difficult, even though the gameplay isn't. For sure it's not as good as the pokemon TCG game boy game, but what is?
No Wave fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2018 21:08
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I don't care about all the other stuff, no ciri nova is fabulous.
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Oct 26, 2018 21:17
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Holy crap, this game is sometimes some Apocalypse Now poo poo, fantasy version. I'm talking of the forest in Aedirn. At least that's how I imagine her entering in the dark woods finding more and more twisted scenes, and the fight being more and more cruel. The writing is superb, and some of the scenes (the delirious wounded men tied to the tree being used as bait when suddenly the tree burst into flames, the field hospital in the cave, the burnt mill full of human skulls, the constant ambushes) are some of the most hard hitting stuff for Scoia'tel in the three Witcher games.
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Oct 26, 2018 21:40
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Games take for loving ever in Homecoming. The order system is alright but needing to micro all of those each turn adds so much time to each turn, on top of games lasting for more turns. And I dunno if it's just, like, not being different enough or not being good enough, but man I really loved playing pre mid winter Gwent and I'd go on multi hour sprees just playing when I was well past the good rewards cap. I'm already at the "logging in to do dailies and that's it" point with Homecoming and like... drat. That's a stark difference. Aaaah. I dunno if pre mid winter was just a design black hole where they had literally no where else to go but I'm sad I can't play that version of the game anymore. I really wanna just queue up and slam some queensguard into the trash or drop mork and olgierd onto the board turn 1 and laugh. At least Thronebreaker is pretty good. It's like a tell tale game without a broken engine and with a very well presented card game instead of walking around. Minera fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 07:33
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Like, uuuugh. Homecoming isn't necessarily bad. It's pretty good, actually, and I could see myself sticking with it to see what they can do with some future expansions. But it's still just, like, Yet Another Iteration Of Gwent that's not as good as one particular incarnation that everyone seemed to overwhelmingly enjoy.
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Oct 27, 2018 07:38
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Personally, I like this version a lot better so far and if I fell into a time portal back to queensgard or carryover or spy nilf again I'd just quit. See how I feel in a couple months, though 
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Oct 27, 2018 08:51
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No Wave posted:I don't think TB is exceptional or mindblowing but it's good! The story choices you have to make are really difficult, even though the gameplay isn't. For sure. I think tuning a pve card campaign is difficult, because if it's too hard it becomes a frustrating bunch of do-over spam trying to get the Good Mulligan to win, so I suppose it's fine as is. I love the choices though. There are definitely a lot of moments where I had to stop and think hard for a few moments if I wanted to take a morally black option just to keep a powerful card on my side and an ally in my camp. I started to really get into thinking the way I envisioned Meve would, and trying to match the choices to her iron hand. Oh, once the game is done you can load your campaign and return to any early area, so presumably you can go back and get the golden chests, if they aren't gated by a side quest...??? I'm still missing a half dozen rewards as well as like 12 reward points after finishing. Hm... I wonder if there isn't a way to spoof the Thronebreaker achievements. I'm guessing it uses cloud saves? Minera fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 09:42
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Turin Turambar posted:Holy crap, this game is sometimes some Apocalypse Now poo poo, fantasy version. I'm talking of the forest in Aedirn. At least that's how I imagine her entering in the dark woods finding more and more twisted scenes, and the fight being more and more cruel. The writing is superb, and some of the scenes (the delirious wounded men tied to the tree being used as bait when suddenly the tree burst into flames, the field hospital in the cave, the burnt mill full of human skulls, the constant ambushes) are some of the most hard hitting stuff for Scoia'tel in the three Witcher games. I got tricked by Rayla and let her do basically what she wanted with the elves.... I slaughtered nonhuman civilians after you learn that the ones in the big cities basically acted as sabouters for the nilfgaardians... All lies ofcourse but I believed it at that time.
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Oct 27, 2018 13:25
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Until chapter 4 I thought the person on the title screen was Saskia and I thought it was lame that Meve was so small on the title screen of her own game. I'm not very smart. The last fight is hilarious and some of the advice given upthread was very helpful in figuring out what you're supposed to do. It's very strange how uncomfortable I find multiplayer gwent but TB felt totally natural. I think the screen colors were lightened and improved for TB and TB only, which is disconcerting. Other parts of the UI seem a lot better as well, and they (mostly) removed the irritating multiplayer gwent mechanics like reach and row-locked effects. It's like a much better team made the single player game - a team who has no idea about card balance, but a very good eye for game design. A part of it I'm sure is the high power level of single player gwent and all of the musters. But I think there are tons of things that are done that make it a better play experience, and it's very strange how little of that made it to multiplayer gwent. Like meve's leader ability sound is still a grunt but it has way more impact than any of the multiplayer ones. No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 17:38
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Savy Saracen salad posted:I got tricked by Rayla and let her do basically what she wanted with the elves.... I slaughtered nonhuman civilians after you learn that the ones in the big cities basically acted as sabouters for the nilfgaardians... All lies ofcourse but I believed it at that time. Rayla is so great. She does horrible things... but she's never wrong about the Scoia'tael. Any time you fail to heed her advice and don't do something horrible, the elves do something just as horrible to you instead.
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Oct 27, 2018 20:12
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I really like the meta faction leveling thing in Gwent. Each node gives you something useful and the points seem pretty easy to come by. Currently my main card game is eternal and it makes you play an ungodly amount of games for some worthless amount of gold or dust.
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Oct 27, 2018 20:59
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artifacts are the new weather artifact is ruining gwent!
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Oct 27, 2018 21:10
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General Morden posted:artifacts are the new weather Yes, and it's funny how it is exactly the same problem. Not just similar, but exactly the same. Again, they have done a set of special cards which normal units or normal abilities can't interact with them or counter them, except very few ones which the very specific ability to counter them ('clear skies' before, now 'destroy artifact'). Man is the only animal who trips twice over the same stone. At least now they have better tools to fix it, they can adjust the provision cost. Other alternatives could be removing or changing each ability (removing zeal from the spear, putting a cooldown of one turn between uses...) or an idea I read somewhere which I liked: make all artifacts need a unit at its side to being able to use it.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:02
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