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Serf
May 5, 2011




quote:

The Demon Lord wears many masks. It is the One Foretold, the Destroyer of Worlds, the Hunger, the Shuddering One, the One Who Whispers, the Shadow in the Void, the Dark Between the Stars, and the Unspeakable One. Its will alone snuffs out the stars and its shadow ends realities.

Shadow of the Demon Lord is a roleplaying game set in a fantasy world’s last days. Reality frays as time and space unravel, weakening the laws governing what’s possible and what isn’t. As a result of this deterioration, threats from beyond the universe intrude, vile demons spawned in the endless Void, hungering for the utter destruction of all things. Where they tumble free into the mortal lands, they bring death and doom to all.

These are dark times foretold by the oracles and prophets, shouted by preachers on their pulpits, and whispered on the hot winds swirling out from the gates of Hell. All the unrest, suffering, doom, and decline spread from the Demon Lord’s shadow that creeps across the mortal world. It corrupts whatever it touches, twisting it to evil ends, fomenting madness, and quickening the doom this being demands. The resulting chaos has seen horrors long forgotten to rise up from their tombs to roam the lands as they once did. Armies muster over the most minor slights, bringing war, famine, plague, and death across the civilized lands

As bad as things are, all is not yet lost. Exceptional men and women have a chance to delay or possibly avert the looming disaster. They come from all backgrounds. They are hard-bitten mercenaries, power-hungry sorcerers, and priests of inscrutable gods. They are the people living in the bowels of the earth and the cities’ slums. They rise from the fighting pits, emerge from the academies, and venture from the farms and fields that sustain the great cities. These peoples, from all across the lands, come together in the world’s hour of need to be its champions, its defenders, and, perhaps, its saviors.

Shadow of the Demon Lord is a 2015 tabletop RPG by Robert Schwalb. Schwalb has worked on various editions of D&D, writing supplements for 3.5 and 4th, and then working as lead designer on 5th Edition. He’s since started his own company, Schwalb Entertainment, and Shadow of the Demon Lord is his flagship product. Based in d20, SotDL is a dark fantasy game with horror elements, and it is one of the best implementations of the d20 system that I have ever seen. It uses a pretty smart math system that bypasses the issue of stacking bonuses and penalties, has a fantastic class design that allows for flexibility of builds and a huge variety of characters, and offers a coherent tone and theme that a lot of competing RPGs don't have.

What makes it different?

There are a few things that set Shadow of the Demon Lord apart from the competition, and here are the ones I consider most important:

Style
First and foremost is the sense of tone that the game presents. If you like Dark Souls, you'll find the art and the feel of SotDL to be very familiar, as they have a similar sense of style and tone. The world is falling apart because of cosmic forces beyond your ken, and you begin the game as a nearly naked regular person who grows over time in skill and ability to challenge the forces that loom over the world and hopefully triumph. All sorts of weird monsters lurk throughout the world, and they are all dangerous in their own way. Sanity is a thing you have to keep track of, and some monsters can cause all kinds of nasty effects to occur if you're unlucky or not careful. Unlike most games, SotDL doesn't have a sanity death spiral. You can get yourself back on track with moderate ease, and allowing your character to succumb to insanity is a choice you would have to consciously make. Your soul is also at risk, as your corruption score rises you become more like the evil things trying to kill you and the world around you reacts to that. And overall the aesthetic and tone of the game are very coherent and consistent throughout, which really counts for a lot to me, as most games don't manage to nail this sort of thing this well, and SotDL does it with ease.


Just look at these Dark Souls-rear end looking adventurers

Mechanics
Shadow of the Demon Lord attempts to take the familiarity of d20 and tone down the swinginess by introducing boons and banes, a system that allows for the math to be bounded in a simple manner that also leads to some interesting uses in play. Gone are the days of DCs as well, as now everything is a simple matter of rolling above a 10 (for skill rolls, attacks follow a more traditional model). We haven't gotten rid of ability scores, but they are massively simplified and constrained. The Path (class) system is also excellent as it allows you to start off with an iconic character archetype and then build on it in interesting directions. You could start as a bog standard Warrior, but then decide that you want to take up magic and add the Wizard Expert Path. Then, near the end of your time, you decide to synthesize the two and take the Master Path Mage Knight. That's a totally valid build! There are no prerequisites for the Paths, so you can build your character however you like, or as the story dictates.


Remember when I said the game has build variety? Yeah, these are the Expert and Master Paths available in the core book. You can come up with some wild and varied builds in this game.

A few other quick mechanical things I like:

  • Equipment is massively simplified, and there aren't huge lists of weapons and armor, just simple choices and categories that you can flavor however you like.
  • No swords of +1 or ioun stones of +2 spell slots. Magic items exist in SotDL but each one is unique and weird, not always useful but definitely interesting. Stacking bonuses isn't a thing here, further uncomplicating the math.
  • The Wizard Problem is solved (mostly). Spellcasters get very few spells, and the spells that exist are potent, but almost always on par damage-wise with that a mundane character of the same level could do. It's much harder for mages to run away with the plot in SotDL.
  • Monster math that makes sense. The game provides you with a way to build encounters and monsters that are an equal challenge for your party, and given Schwalb's work on D&D 4E, it is a smart system that allows you to quickly eyeball fights and ensure that they'll be fair.
  • A ton of suggestions for how to structure individual adventures and an overall campaign. SotDL is intended to be played as 10 sessions, with the characters gaining a level and completing a full adventure each time. I know this isn't realistic for a lot of people, but that tight focus is only the framework for your campaign, which can be run however you like. And if you're ever stuck for ideas on an adventure, well Schwalb has you covered...
Support
This game has a TON of supplements. I don't know how Rob does it, the man's a machine. Since the game's release in 2015 he has put out over 100 supplements for the game, ranging from a full expansion to six-page bite-sized documents that expand on a corner of the game, be that in mechanics or in the world. There are a shitload of pre-written adventures which are good not just for running but also as examples of how to design your own horror-fantasy adventures for your group. And the quality of these supplements is through the roof. Layout and art in each one is consistently as good as the core book, and they all feel worth the money you'll spend on them. And the best part is that they're optional. Everything you need to play the game is in the core book, the supplements are just that: supplemental. I have a few recommendations on what you should buy, but none of them are necessary to fully enjoy Shadow of the Demon Lord.

What are the books?

I'm only gonna cover the big releases, but towards the bottom of this page I'll throw in a link to the tons and tons of small supplements that have come out.


Core
This is the big one. Contains everything you'd need to play or run Shadow of the Demon Lord.


Demon Lord's Companion (DLC)
The first big expansion for SotDL. It has all the stuff you'd expect from an expansion book: new ancestries (races), Paths of all levels, magical traditions and spells, monsters and locations etc. A solid purchase in my opinion, as it just adds more good stuff to an already great core book, and there's not just something in here for everyone but almost all of the material will come in handy at some point.


Uncertain Faith
This one is all about the gods and religions of the world of SotDL. It's got tons of setting and background info, some new spells and equipment and a Novice adventure. You could say I have my own uncertain faith in how much you'll get out of this book if you write your own settings or just aren't big on fluff-heavy supplements. The mechanical info is a little scant for my taste.


Terrible Beauty
Okay now we're talking. This one gets you elves and some other faerie ancestries, more magic, more Paths, more monsters and stuff alongside loads of setting information and fluff. This one is a good purchase for my money as it comes with plenty of crunch, and elves are actually kinda cool in SotDL, so this is worth checking out.


Hunger in the Void
Do you like cults in the style of Lovecraft and other cosmic horror writers? This book has you covered, as it goes into detail on all the cults devoted to the Demon Lord and its many servants, and backs that info up with lots of statblocks and new, evil spells. This one is good if you want to dial in on the horror/cult aspect of the game, and the statblocks read a bit like "Deities and Demigods only you might actually have a chance to fight this" vibe that I dig.


Tombs of the Desolation
Vampires and other undead things galore. You can play as a vampire or an undead slayer and everything in between. Adds tons of mechanical options for people who want to go heavy on undead stuff in their games. Worth buying if that's what you're into.


Tales of the Demon Lord
Easily one of my favorite books, Tales is a book of adventures and some setting info. There are adventures for all four tiers of play (Starting, Novice, Expert and Master), and each one is substantial enough to be run in any game easily. If you want to know how to design adventures for any level or need something to slot into your game, Tales rules.


Exquisite Agony
Where Hunger in the Void was about cults of the demons, Exquisite Agony is about the devils themselves. Here you can get info on how they operate, how to build your own devils, and get a new Ancestry and some new Paths as well as spells and an adventure. Like some of the other books I've talked about you'll get out of this what you're looking for. If you want to deal with devils, this is the book for you.


Forbidden Rules
The Unearthed Arcana of SotDL, this book has tons of options for changing up your game. I like the Fortune overhaul, which along with a healing system clearly influenced by D&D 4E's healing surges, allows you to completely change the game's tone to be far more heroic and pulp. At the same time there are rules for wounds that cause death spirals and gridless combat. Social combat and equipment simplification are here, bell curves for dice rolling, a new Path and rules for handling chase scenes, a skill system, power points instead of spell castings - this book has way more variant rules than I can list here. Probably my favorite book aside from the Companion, it just gives you too much cool stuff to be passed over.


Godless
Are you reading all this, nodding your head and going "better D&D sounds good but I'm just not into the dark fantasy setting"? Well, SotDL has you covered with Godless, which takes the excellent engine of the game and fits it into the rusty, spike-and-chain-covered blood-spattered car body that is Mad Max. This is a full conversion that lets you take the Ancestries and Paths from the core book and use them in a post-apocalyptic world of car battles and shootouts. It's also got its own Paths, a crafting system, more in-depth rules for vehicles and chases, and tons of other stuff that can easily be brought back over into the dark fantasy setting if you like. This is one of the weirder books, but in my opinion the most interesting.

So what do goons recommend?


Evil Mastermind posted:

A few more useful mini-supplements:

Unhinge the Mind: Rules for insanity/madness.
Battle Scars: Expanded damage rules, with options for long-term injuries for a grittier game.
Of Monstrous Mien: Monster creation rules.

How do I find out more?

Shadow of the Demon Lord official site. It's run by Schwalb and he posts regular updates on stuff that is coming out and things he's working on there.
Offical Google+ page There's tons of info on here, with rules clarifications, homebrew, and updates from Rob. You should check it out.
DriveThruRPG page for Schwalb Entertainment This is where you buy the books and the smaller supplements. There's lots to sift through, and if you have questions about a supplement, ask the thread. I probably already own it and can help you out.
My F&F of the core book Consider this shameful self-promotion since I got sidetracked with other projects and haven't finished it yet. I'll get back to it. I have covered the core systems of the game, so if you want a more in-depth look at exactly how the game shakes out, the first few posts will tell you a lot of what you want to know.
I made a Discord! We discuss the game, and I'm using it to currently organize one-shots. Come on by and hang out!

Serf fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Aug 8, 2017

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Serf
May 5, 2011


Upcoming Releases


Freeport Companion
The classic Freeport setting done up in SotDL style. This was a Kickstarted project, but Rob is making good time on the book. I'll be sure to post about it once I've gotten my hands on it.

Demon Lord's Companion 2
A stretch goal for the Freeport KS, this is a promised 32-page supplement in the style of the first DLC that will offer more Paths, Ancestries and magic. Basically even more good stuff that can go in any game. This one is further out on the horizon, but Rob has a proven track record with this, so I have no doubt it'll be coming before too long.

Foglet posted:

Regarding upcoming releases: Asunder, a third-party SotDL-engine RPG taking place in a fantasy world without metal, was and probably still is in the works, though there's been silence on its progress for a while. At least it has a 400-page playtest document available.

Third-Party Products


Misc stuff

Check out this good-rear end post by gradenko_2000 explaining how SotDL eliminates dead levels and weaves your choices throughout the entire leveling process.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Yeah SOTDL is also good:

You start at level 0, then become level 1 and pick a Novice Path that gives you a bunch of abilities and level-up statistical bonuses.
At level 2, your Novice Path gives another pile of level-up bonuses
At level 3, you pick an Expert Path and you get a pile of level-up bonuses for that
At level 4, your bonuses come from your Ancestry
At level 5, your Novice path kicks in again
At level 6, your Expert path kicks in
At level 7, you pick a Master path, which further specializes you and gives you yet more special abilities
At level 8, it's the Novice path again
At level 9, it's the Expert path
and finally at level 10, your Master path grants you level-up bonus a second time

Besides what Serf said about the paths never having prerequisites so that they're much more flexible than, say, Prestige Classes, what I also find good is that by staggering the various level-up benefits across the 10-level spread, they both avoid "dead levels", while also avoiding that thing where you just phone it in because you said you don't want to have dead levels but you can't think of anything good to provide anyway.

And the special ability you get from each level is also decidedly "meaty" every time, which again ties back to the whole idea of mutually exclusive choices allowing you provide significant bonuses because they're not competing with a zillion other things you can stack with it.

Serf fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jun 18, 2017

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Thanks for the OP, Serf!

I saw this gem on the g+ group, btw

quote:

Robert Schwalb
Moderator
+2
I am not releasing a 2nd edition of the game. My objective with theses two path entries was to tighten a few screws. I will be folding these updates into the SotDL Player's Guide (this will be the front half of the main rulebook and available as a POD) and the SotDL PDF when we get to it.
So those Fighter &etc upgrades, it seems, will eventually be added into the main PDF for a new version.

Emy
Apr 21, 2009
You may also want to have a mention of this, at least for the next 19 days: it's currently on a BoH sale with the basic bundle costing less than the core book does on DTRPG. https://bundleofholding.com/presents/DemonLord

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Hey Serf, thanks for the shoutout.

dwarf74 posted:

Thanks for the OP, Serf!

I saw this gem on the g+ group, btw

So those Fighter &etc upgrades, it seems, will eventually be added into the main PDF for a new version.

Can you link to these "Fighter & etc upgrades"?

Serf
May 5, 2011


Emy posted:

You may also want to have a mention of this, at least for the next 19 days: it's currently on a BoH sale with the basic bundle costing less than the core book does on DTRPG. https://bundleofholding.com/presents/DemonLord

Done!

gradenko_2000 posted:

Hey Serf, thanks for the shoutout.


Can you link to these "Fighter & etc upgrades"?


They're part of the Paths of Shadow series of small supplements, and they basically are semi-errata for Expert Paths. They're a mix of fixes and alternative options. And each one so far has included a new Expert Path from that type.

Paths of Power is for magic-users, and includes the Occultist.
Paths of Battle does the same for fighter-types, and introduces the Knight.

Presumably there will be a Paths of Skill coming up soon.

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.
It probably should be mentioned that the game does tip its hat a lot to the 1st and 2nd edition of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG, from starting out in a fairly normal career and then progressing to more adventure-focused paths, and also the fact that one of special items you can start with is a small dog of noteworthy viciousness. (I don't think you can get 1d10 rats on a stick, but.)

I also appreciate that the game's doing the 'dark fantasy with occasional body horror' niche without ever leaning on rape or sexual assault to do it, at least in the books I have so far. Given other examples in the field that makes it kind of a standout!

Lord_Hambrose
Nov 21, 2008

*a foul hooting fills the air*



I really like how rock solid the rules are. I like that the author was burned out on making 4th edition D&D, so he wanted a quick playing version for home use.

I was skeptical at first, but the game works beautifully. I particularly like how initiative is handled.

Foglet
Jun 17, 2014

Reality is an illusion.
The universe is a hologram.
Buy gold.
Regarding upcoming releases: Asunder, a third-party SotDL-engine RPG taking place in a fantasy world without metal, was and probably still is in the works, though there's been silence on its progress for a while. At least it has a 400-page playtest document available.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

can anyone recommend a good actual play where they play this system? i've given the core book a skim and it definitely seems interesting in the ways the OP talks it up but usually seeing how other people play is my best way of 'getting' it

Serf
May 5, 2011


Foglet posted:

Regarding upcoming releases: Asunder, a third-party SotDL-engine RPG taking place in a fantasy world without metal, was and probably still is in the works, though there's been silence on its progress for a while. At least it has a 400-page playtest document available.

Added to the upcoming releases!


Brother Entropy posted:

can anyone recommend a good actual play where they play this system? i've given the core book a skim and it definitely seems interesting in the ways the OP talks it up but usually seeing how other people play is my best way of 'getting' it

The only one I have personally listed to was by The Play Better Podcast. It is a decent overview of playing as Starting characters, and it's funny to boot! There are lots more APs listed on the G+ page if you poke around a little, but I haven't given them a listen.

Also, I'm planning on running some of the pre-written adventures as one-shots through Discord/Roll20 to get people some experience with the system, so look forward to that in the future!

Lightning Lord
Feb 21, 2013

$200 a day, plus expenses

How much work would I need to do to use SotDL to run games set in Warhammer Fantasy's Old World?

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.
I am really digging Glorious Death- I was always curious about the Jotuns, and now I want to play a giant blue Punch-viking.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Lightning Lord posted:

How much work would I need to do to use SotDL to run games set in Warhammer Fantasy's Old World?
From what I remember from WFRP2e (back when I ran it) you could pretty easily take the Demon Lord out, slot Khorne/Nurgle/etc. in, and run with it.

You might need to assign some Traditions to some of the gods, but I don't think you would even need to do that much work. Sigmar could slot in for the New God, etc. There's Humans and Dwarfs in the core book, Halflings in the Companion, and Elves in the Beauty book. I haven't seen Skaven, but they're probably somewhere.

The only big thing is that magic isn't as dangerous, generally. You won't have a demon eat your brain from casting a spell, unless it's a particularly evil spell and you get corrupted.

e: I kept on thinking while reading it that it's the closest game, thematically, to WFRP2e that I've seen. Much better rules, though. Conversion to SotDL should be easier than conversion to most any other system.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 14:59 on May 24, 2017

Angrymog
Jan 30, 2012

Really Madcats

How essential are the different races to the setting?

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

A few more useful mini-supplements:

Unhinge the Mind: Rules for insanity/madness.
Battle Scars: Expanded damage rules, with options for long-term injuries for a grittier game.
Of Monstrous Mien: Monster creation rules.

Foglet
Jun 17, 2014

Reality is an illusion.
The universe is a hologram.
Buy gold.

dwarf74 posted:

There's Humans and Dwarfs in the core book, Halflings in the Companion, and Elves in the Beauty book. I haven't seen Skaven, but they're probably somewhere.

Lore-wise, SotDL elves are much more of The Fair Folk sort compared to WFRP, but I think a reskin (plus a bit of fine tuning) is still doable.
Skaven (especially as PCs) have to custom-made, though; perhaps via the rules for Beastmen generation.

Anyway, I definitely remember someone posting their WFRP conversion efforts in the SotDL G+ group linked above.

Foglet fucked around with this message at 15:32 on May 24, 2017

LaSquida
Nov 1, 2012

Just keep on walkin'.

Lightning Lord posted:

How much work would I need to do to use SotDL to run games set in Warhammer Fantasy's Old World?

How closely do you want the magic to track?

Tenebrous Tourist
Aug 28, 2008

Foglet posted:

Lore-wise, SotDL elves are much more of The Fair Folk sort compared to WFRP, but I think a reskin (plus a bit of fine tuning) is still doable.
Skaven (especially as PCs) have to custom-made, though; perhaps via the rules for Beastmen generation.

Anyway, I definitely remember someone posting their WFRP recreation efforts in the SotDL G+ group linked above.

I think the stats for Goblin PC's come pretty close to how I'd stat out Skaven. They've got the whole agile, sneaky thing going for them at least.

What does everyone think about the Lizardfolk and Ogre ancestry options? I think more options are better than fewer, but they do seem potentially spotlight-stealing due to how much much stronger they are than the other ancestries. Any insight into how to bring them more in line with the other options?

Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.
Could someone tell me more about Godless?

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Lichtenstein posted:

Could someone tell me more about Godless?

The summary in the OP is pretty comprehensive- the book isn't actually super long and the setting description seems intentionally vague so you can customize things as you see fit. More of a toolkit to very easily create a new setting than a wholly detailed alt-setting- which IMO makes it a very good value since you're getting a lot of mechanics and just enough fluff to make it interesting/see how it fits together. It does update/gives guidance on updating the things that would need to be updated so they fit in a post-apocalyptic setting (if you include Elves in your game they're going to be humans mutated by magic/radition/etc. and not vulnerable to iron, the created clockwork gear people can be functionally replaced by robots containing the minds of wealthy pre-apocalypse people who decided digital immortality was the way to go, currency is largely replaced with an easy-to-use barter system, etc.), and provides new rules for things that would not have been present in a fantasy setting (modern firearms with automatic fire, modern ballistic armor, cars and car chases, magic to support these things, etc.). All of these look they would run very seamlessly due to the manner in which the base game is set up- an OG SotDL Warrior's basic path bonuses are just as relevant when firing an M60 from the back of a Hilux as they are when clubbing giant rats (which is good, since both are plausible activities in Godless).

In all honesty it's a very good toolkit/base, and the transparent way SotDL is set up makes it easy to adjust to taste- i.e. if you or your group is slightly gunsperg it's possible the way firearms categories are defined and described by default will bother them (it's very heavily in the "stylish mainstream 80's action movie" corner), but it's also extremely obvious how to properly tweak the numbers to differentiate a FAL from an Uzi.

LGD fucked around with this message at 18:09 on May 24, 2017

Doodmons
Jan 17, 2009
With all the content for this game, is there a starting adventure which clearly comes out as being the best of the bunch? I want to try to sell this game to some people but have never played or run it before, so it would help if the level 0 stuff (which is not really a gameplay style I'm familiar with) was well-written.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
e:^^^^ is answered by vvvvvv

Tales of the Demon Lord - which looks like a full campaign's worth of adventures - just got added to the Bundle of Holding!

Serf
May 5, 2011


Doodmons posted:

With all the content for this game, is there a starting adventure which clearly comes out as being the best of the bunch? I want to try to sell this game to some people but have never played or run it before, so it would help if the level 0 stuff (which is not really a gameplay style I'm familiar with) was well-written.

Two of them stand out in particular. Dark Deeds in Hope is a really simple mystery adventure which can grow and branch in cool ways. It doesn't have a very tight structure, and that's on purpose. There are loose scenes and a progression of the plot that can happen with or without the characters. It can basically end as a Coen brothers movie, which is nice. The Witching Wood is the other one that I like. It's more about horror, leaning heavily on an elusive villain and scarce monsters and more creepy scenes that drive up the tension. It has a very definite end point, and it only shakes out in one or two ways, but there is a sense of pressure that keeps the PCs motivated.

Duct Tape
Sep 30, 2004

Huh?
I started flipping through the PDF yesterday, and was so impressed I ordered the core book and am planning on running a one-shot this weekend. Are there any decent player aids out there that I can print off for the table? We'll only have one book between 4 or 5 people, and a sheet with an outline of the combat system, how damage/health works, modifiers, power vs spell expenditures, and stuff like that would be incredibly helpful. All the systems look fairly simple, but having them all laid out on a sheet in front of each player will definitely speed things up.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Some things I've noticed that I will probably forget...

* You get a free level 0 spell when you learn a tradition
* Ability modifiers don't affect damage
* That +/- at character creation
* The choice after you take your first profession

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

I want I hear more about Godless, honestly.

TheHoosier
Dec 30, 2004

The fuck, Graham?!

I'd love to try this but I have exactly 0 experience with tabletop RPGs of any kind. Anyone plan to do a PbP of it sometime soon?

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

dwarf74 posted:

Some things I've noticed that I will probably forget...

* You get a free level 0 spell when you learn a tradition
* Ability modifiers don't affect damage
* That +/- at character creation
* The choice after you take your first profession

That +/- is also basically the only way you can wear heavy armor without taking the Dreadnaught master path, as near as I can tell, and even then, only if you're human, a war or work clockwork, or an orc. (Or Jotun.) You need to start with at least 11 strength, do the +/- tradeoff to raise it to twelve, and then 3 of your path attribute boosts all have to go to strength in order to meet the minimum requirements, so no plate armor until level 7 for anyone regardless.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

might also want to write up how initiative and fast/slow turns work, i completely missed it on my first skim through and it took a second for me to get it (now i think it's super rad though)

Tenebrous Tourist
Aug 28, 2008

The Paths of Battle errata to the Fighter makes it possible to unlock heavy armor at level 3- the level 3 basic ability reduces all Strength requirements for all weapons and armor by 2, so anyone with at least 13 Strength at level 3 can wear full plate.

Paths of Battle is totally worth it for anyone on the fence, by the way. Berserker and Fighter both get (much-needed, IMHO) buffs, the Paladin gets a few cool new options, and the new Knight expert path fills a much-needed hole for defensive options in combat.

Antilles
Feb 22, 2008


I had mentioned SoDL for my current RP group (currently playing a Dungeon World campaign) and there had been some interest, so earlier this week when two people couldn't make it and no one had brought a tabletop game of some kind, I suggested trying out SoDL to get a feel for it.

Despite not having any practical experience with the game, nothing prepped, and only having the pdf's on my ipad, I managed to sell the game to them. Well, I did a poo poo job, the game sold itself really. They loved the character creation, despite two players being dwarves they ended up feeling totally different, the changeling loved the idea behind the ancestry, and when her 'interesting thing' ended up being a trunk full of body parts we spent almost half an hour brainstorming the hows and whys behind that trunk.

Since I hadn't actually prepped anything I decided to try running Survival of the Fittest, but unfortunately I didn't explain the mechanics all too well, and also didn't put enough emphasis on the lethality of combat, especially at lower levels, so they ended up dying to the first combat encounter. Still, given that their immediate reaction was "Aww.... Oh well, let's make new characters for next time :)" I think they had fun. And it also gave me an idea of what I need to prepare for the next, 'proper' attempt, so silver linings and all that.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

Jimmeeee posted:

Paths of Battle is totally worth it for anyone on the fence, by the way. Berserker and Fighter both get (much-needed, IMHO) buffs, the Paladin gets a few cool new options, and the new Knight expert path fills a much-needed hole for defensive options in combat.

I know it's $2 each but presumably those aren't really worth grabbing for the buffs to existing paths, since (as posted above) Rob seems to plan to merge them into the base PDF.

Serf
May 5, 2011


Antilles posted:

I had mentioned SoDL for my current RP group (currently playing a Dungeon World campaign) and there had been some interest, so earlier this week when two people couldn't make it and no one had brought a tabletop game of some kind, I suggested trying out SoDL to get a feel for it.

Despite not having any practical experience with the game, nothing prepped, and only having the pdf's on my ipad, I managed to sell the game to them. Well, I did a poo poo job, the game sold itself really. They loved the character creation, despite two players being dwarves they ended up feeling totally different, the changeling loved the idea behind the ancestry, and when her 'interesting thing' ended up being a trunk full of body parts we spent almost half an hour brainstorming the hows and whys behind that trunk.

Since I hadn't actually prepped anything I decided to try running Survival of the Fittest, but unfortunately I didn't explain the mechanics all too well, and also didn't put enough emphasis on the lethality of combat, especially at lower levels, so they ended up dying to the first combat encounter. Still, given that their immediate reaction was "Aww.... Oh well, let's make new characters for next time :)" I think they had fun. And it also gave me an idea of what I need to prepare for the next, 'proper' attempt, so silver linings and all that.

This owns. I'm glad you had fun with the game! If you play again, please let us know about it.

TheHoosier posted:

I'd love to try this but I have exactly 0 experience with tabletop RPGs of any kind. Anyone plan to do a PbP of it sometime soon?

I've been kicking around this idea for a while now. I was hoping to run the game through VoIP but we'll see how it shakes out.

Evil Mastermind posted:

A few more useful mini-supplements:

Unhinge the Mind: Rules for insanity/madness.
Battle Scars: Expanded damage rules, with options for long-term injuries for a grittier game.
Of Monstrous Mien: Monster creation rules.

These are good recommendations by the way, and I'm adding them to the OP. Of Monstrous Mien in particular is very good from what I've done. Monster building rules are absent from the core book which makes it really helpful.

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010
How's the math of this game, and how much does it push away from Problematic D&D-isms? The fact that it's a 4e designer makes me think "maybe this will work." But 5e makes me think not so much. I do love games like Dark Souls and Darkest Dungeon, though, so I'm down to give it a shot.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Impermanent posted:

How's the math of this game, and how much does it push away from Problematic D&D-isms? The fact that it's a 4e designer makes me think "maybe this will work." But 5e makes me think not so much. I do love games like Dark Souls and Darkest Dungeon, though, so I'm down to give it a shot.

The math seems rock solid. Everything is constrained, so it seems quite bounded. Boons and banes add a nice curve to outcomes, though, without the math going crazy due to how they (don't) stack. The 5e issue with skill bonuses basically disappears because professions are generally "yeah, you do it."

And as I mentioned, damage rolls don't get the bonuses, so you don't get double perks from high stats.

Duct Tape
Sep 30, 2004

Huh?
Question about how Dark Magic Traditions interact with the Magician's Cantrip talent.

Dark Magic Traditions: You gain 1 Corruption each time you discover a dark magic tradition. As well, each time you learn a spell from a dark magic tradition, roll a d6. If the number is less than the total number of dark magic spells you have learned, you gain 1 Corruption.

Cantrip: Whenever you discover a tradition, you learn an extra rank 0 spell from that tradition.

Is this sequence correct then?
  • Magician learns Forbidden tradition and learns a rank 0 spell
  • Dark Magic Tradition procs from learning tradition: Gains 1 Corruption
  • Dark Magic Tradition procs from learning a dark magic spell: Roll d6, potentially gain 1 Corruption.
  • Cantrip procs: Learns extra rank 0 spell (now a total of 2 dark magic spells)
  • Dark Magic Tradition procs from learning a dark magic spell: Roll d6, potentially gain 1 Corruption.
Is that correct? Is Dark Magic Tradition supposed to "proc" three times for Magicians?


edit
Found a post on Google+ asking this exact question: https://plus.google.com/+DShoe/posts/ekgbXKcevuF
The official ruling on if Dark Magic Tradition is supposed to "proc" three times:

Robert Schwalb posted:

Yep. But, you should feel free to change the amount of corruption gained if you want such spells to be more widely available.
:getin:

Duct Tape fucked around with this message at 04:49 on May 26, 2017

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth
I have to say at first I thought this was just a SUPER GRIM DARK GRITTY FANTASY YOU WILL DIE BECAUSE YOU START AS A SHITFARMER AND MAYBE FIND A GOOD SWORD kinda thing and wasn't really into it. After reading good reviews (and this thread) I saw my first impression was wrong and this seems right up my group's alley. I just got the bundle and boy is this a solid world after all. I love the little world building snippets in things that they sprinkle around.

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Lemon-Lime posted:

I know it's $2 each but presumably those aren't really worth grabbing for the buffs to existing paths, since (as posted above) Rob seems to plan to merge them into the base PDF.

I just picked up Path of Battle for $1.19 and I'd say it's definitely worth it at the moment if you're planning to play/run a game where people would be interested in any of the included classes. Fighter in particular went from a super-dull "eh, I guess, if there's really nothing better" choice to an exciting and actively good choice.

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Serf
May 5, 2011


LGD posted:

I just picked up Path of Battle for $1.19 and I'd say it's definitely worth it at the moment if you're planning to play/run a game where people would be interested in any of the included classes. Fighter in particular went from a super-dull "eh, I guess, if there's really nothing better" choice to an exciting and actively good choice.

The fact that they get 1 extra Fighter Talent alone is huge and makes the Path way better than it was before.

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