|
Antilles posted:Not least because 1/rest rank 0 spell is kinda... well, naff compared to most level 4 ancestry talents. That was the feeling I got reading through the races, but maybe the third time you roll a human you just want something else?
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 13:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:19 |
|
|
Jack B Nimble posted:That was the feeling I got reading through the races, but maybe the third time you roll a human you just want something else? Some of the Victims supplements have multiple Talents you can pick between (unfortunately Human's not one of them), but even so... which rank 0 spell would be worth getting 1 cast per rest vs. re-rolling all 1's on every boon rolled?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 14:34
|
|
|
Antilles posted:Some of the Victims supplements have multiple Talents you can pick between (unfortunately Human's not one of them), but even so... which rank 0 spell would be worth getting 1 cast per rest vs. re-rolling all 1's on every boon rolled? I'm guessing "the one that fits the character's story better" is the one worth getting. Mechanically, the question I'd have is what to do about that extra casting if the character later does get a tradition and a power rating. Personally, I'd look for ways to retrain/retcon that original decision, as opposed to having that decision nullified or keeping track of one extra level 0 casting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 14:40
|
|
|
Hmmn, you mean like if the level four choice was " gain one casting of your next to highest rank"?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 14:59
|
|
|
homullus posted:I'm guessing "the one that fits the character's story better" is the one worth getting. Mechanically, the question I'd have is what to do about that extra casting if the character later does get a tradition and a power rating. Personally, I'd look for ways to retrain/retcon that original decision, as opposed to having that decision nullified or keeping track of one extra level 0 casting. Sure, story uber alles, just pointing out there's a significant power difference between the two choices. As for the mechanical question, that'd be something the group would have to hash out before the game. You could just make it a free Tradition and solve it like that, though that would make the magister very happy. Or you could say it works like any other spell where increasing Power increases the uses, you just don't need to learn the Tradition first. Sorta like the Wizard's Grimoires, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 15:02
|
|
|
Serf posted:I hadn't thought about it before, but it would be cool as a variant rule to let a player pick up a rank-0 spell with 1 casting with that level 4 feature. Just give them the usual "tradition or spell" choice instead of only a spell, imo. If you're are a magician, the "tradition or spell" choice becomes stronger than the original "learn one spell", but I think that's okay. Similarly, if you have more than zero power (but are not a magician), a "tradition or spell" choice would be stronger than your variant rule but equal in power to the original. For characters with zero power, the effect would be essentially identical to your proposed variant rule except way easier to adjudicate in the case of future power increases or spell learning because it wouldn't be an exception to the usual spells-per-day or magical tradition rules. The overall effect would be slightly more magic, since it'd let Power 0 characters pick up a spell (like your proposed variant), while also allowing magic users to grab an extra spell (like the original). The ability to grab a tradition increases its strength a bit compared to either the original or your variant (and a bit more for magicians) but I'd be willing to live with that because it makes the choice meaningful for most any character build, while also keeping the rules cleaner.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2017 19:34
|
|
|
Would SotDL work for a one player/one GM game?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 08:41
|
|
|
Bullbar posted:Would SotDL work for a one player/one GM game? If they're willing to play a party of 3 or so I think you'd be fine. Especially if you had them playing the town or a merc company or something that. If that's a bit overwhelming "Hey your character is the mayor/merc captain/whatever. They're who you speak as, but you control and order the others in combat" works too. That also can somewhat mitigate the lethality and explain how easily replacements are found. The quick rolling system for generating characters could also help, your player would only need to flesh out their main character/think up story stuff for them, and then just use the chargen randomized roll stuff for other party helpers. If it's just narrating someone through solo adventures without a party things'll be trickier since the system has very little non-magical healing and with how fast and lethal combat can be, especially once you start outnumber the PCs things go south fast. Clockwork companions or magical items that get past some of the limitations, like giving them early on an amulet that gives them a fast and slow round in combat and enables extra healing would probably be needed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 08:58
|
|
|
I got this game and most of the supplements on that Bundle of Holding a while back and it seems pretty decent. The system is good and it's a drat sight better than a lot of "dark" and "mature" games on the market. Having said that, I feel the game still falls into some of the typical traps of dark fantasy RPGs: reading the core book I don't actually get that much of a sense of why the setting is actually anything more than a traditional D&D setting except "Oh man these nobles are totally incestuous and banging each other gross" and "Hey look there's tits and a spell that makes your enemy literally poo poo yourself to death!" I mean, it's the sort of "mature" content that 15-year-old me would've been totally up for while listening to Sepultura with my friends. There's lots of really cool setting elements though but I feel they're not used to their best potential: I love the fact that the goblins in the setting are literally the sort of guys you'd expect to find in a seedy goblin market, and it's cool that there's a bunch of clockwork robots powered by the souls of the dead running around, but then the setting material doesn't really address the existence of clockworks at all. Some of the other setting elements feel like the sort of hot takes that young edgy internet atheist me would've found cool: I'm totally on board with the Demon Lord basically being the Demiurge who created the world and went mad, but then when that sourcebook on Hell reveals that "Actually these monotheists are LITERALLY WORSHIPING THE DEVIL" I go, "Yeah, okay, whatever." Having said that the game's definitely salvageable: I wouldn't run it in the base setting, I'd probably use it to run something in a much more Victorian setting, with heavy doses of China Mieville, and I could see that being an enjoyable experience . As I said, the game and setting are way better than most dark fantasy RPGs on the market, it's just a bit disappointing that the "dark" elements are mostly just poo poo and tits. E: Oh and just so that this doesn't end up being a grumpy shitpost on my part, if any of you have ideas on how to use the game to run in some other kind of setting, I'd welcome it. I really want to run this game but the base setting is just a bit too bland for me. Ratpick fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jun 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 12:35
|
|
|
Ratpick posted:I got this game and most of the supplements on that Bundle of Holding a while back and it seems pretty decent. The system is good and it's a drat sight better than a lot of "dark" and "mature" games on the market. I absolutely love this game, but to be honest, most of that love hangs on the system and not the setting. I could take or leave the "dark" aspect of things, and even when running it I don't lean into that aspect of the game. I listened to the interview with Schwalb posted earlier in the thread, and besides being a really fascinating look into how hard the freelancer life is, he said that the published version of SotDL is a toned-down version of his own vision of the game, which apparently deals much more with body horror etc. For me, that's totally fine, as I'm not really into body horror and running a horror game is beyond my capabilities. Given the choice between his extreme vision and the more palatable and bland stuff in the base game, I'll take the latter as it has less of a chance of turning people off (myself included). But given that, your criticism is totally valid. And you're absolutely justified in wanting to run it in your own setting. I like the base setting fine enough for one-shots, and the worldbuilding supplements are fine reading if you're a huge worldbuilding nerd like me, but when I start up an actual campaign I'll definitely be running it in something of my own design that doesn't play so much to the dark aspects of the game. The good news is that the mechanical aspects of the game aren't too dependent on reinforcing that tone. Forbidden Rules has all kinds of stuff that can be used to make the tone much more heroic and adventurous, and ignoring things like Insanity and Corruption is pretty easy. Also, just as a general message to anyone looking into purchasing the supplements, Horrific Parasites has an example of Schwalb's preferred style of horror, and I can't say I liked it very much. The mechanical info in the supplement was good, but just be forewarned that at a certain point it crosses a boundary from "poo poo and tits", as Ratpick so finely describes it, to something a lot less appealing. e: also the Victims supplements are great for more info on the various Ancestries. Ghosts in Machines, which covers clockworks, is particularly informative and interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 12:54
|
|
|
yeah, it's not super-repulsive and comes off as really pulpy and Troma-esque. I like my body horror weirder, personally. That said there was a table playing SOTDL at a meetup near me a couple of days ago that were all proudly bragging about witches taking out their eyes, so there's a certain appeal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 13:21
|
|
|
Bullbar posted:Would SotDL work for a one player/one GM game? I think it would be especially good if the one player had high Intellect and Will, and could therefore excel in social struggles and use a lot of incantations in problem-solving ways. If the 1p is a fighting-man then I think the game would be short.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 14:08
|
|
|
You could probably easily roll 4 character's stats into something like one big character, using everyone's heath, everyone's spells, and then note the best melee and ranged attack add defense. Use the others when something suboptimal happens. Mechanically it's easier than having four real characters, but should still let it feel more like a group. I'm reminded of the legend of grimrock genre. Then, as was said, the player is like mass effect Sheppard and is the recruiter, commander, and face of a small team.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 14:16
|
|
|
Eh, I've always just done 'Main Character Played By Player and then Partymates They Control In Combat' when I've done solo games in other systems. Speaking of, how easy would it be to adapt SOTDL to an early-modern setting with muskets and fancy uniforms? The rules look like they'd work better than what I was using for a setting I've taken through multiple d20-alikes looking for something that fits, just curious how much reskinning I'll have to do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 14:28
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Eh, I've always just done 'Main Character Played By Player and then Partymates They Control In Combat' when I've done solo games in other systems. The pistols and rifles as presented are pretty much spot on for muskets and muzzle-loaded weaponry, so you're good on that front. Aside from that its a question of how much supernatural stuff you want to ignore. You'd probably be restricted to just the Warrior and the Rogue Novice Paths, unless you want Priests and Magicians to be like low-powered superhumans or something. It could be done without that much work.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 14:41
|
|
|
Oh, the setting's about a 'normal'ish 18th century style world getting invaded by demons and angels from beyond and magic flowing back in suddenly and violently, so the whole 'fighting horrific monsters from beyond and using dark power against them' aspect should be a plus. E: Think 18th century Shadowrun, complete with 'I was human yesterday and now I'm an orc.' Night10194 fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jun 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 14:46
|
|
|
If you're interested in re-skinning the game then looking at Godless would probably be a good first step. It's not too too different, since it's still got magic and weird ancestries, but being set in a post-apocalyptic near-future Earth should give some inspiration for how a different setting would look like.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 14:56
|
|
|
The base setting is already early industrial despite the traditional fantasy trappings, so mechanically it should be an easy fit for 18th century Shadowrun. That pretty much sums my feelings, and yeah, I used my own setting for running the game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 15:00
|
|
|
ZearothK posted:The base setting is already early industrial despite the traditional fantasy trappings, so mechanically it should be an easy fit for 18th century Shadowrun. Yeah, I got the impression based on the inclusion of guns in the equipment list and I think I even saw a train somewhere, but the industrial trappings don't really shine through in other places. Anyway, 18th century Shadowrun actually sounds like exactly the sort of tone I'm looking for. Oh and I have to say, as mentioned earlier I really enjoy the idea of the Demon Lord as a mad demiurge: it's extremely cool and would make for a really nice and Lovecraftian backdrop to an early industrial setting. Instead of focusing on the body horror you could easily focus on the corrupting and maddening influence of the Demon Lord, and I feel that esoteric secret societies is definitely something that would fit into an early industrial setting. I should also check out Godless: I was unaware of it until I read the OP and it looks cool as hell. Mad Max meets dark fantasy is a combination I didn't know I wanted until I heard about it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 11:28
|
|
|
You should read Hunger in the Void if you want the full skinny on the Demon Lord. It also posits that even the most depraved of the demon cults don't actually know what they're worshipping until it's too late, since not even the craziest, most evil person would be nihilistic enough to worship an entity devoted to nothing short of total extinction. It's more that they serve dark, self-serving pursuits or twisted distortions of more reasonable ideals or fields of study.
Buck Wildman fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jun 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 14:55
|
|
|
FunkMonkey posted:You should read Hunger in the Void if you want the full skinny on the Demon Lord. It also posits that even the most depraved of the demon cults don't actually know what they're worshipping until it's too late, since not even the craziest, most evil person would be nihilistic enough to worship an entity devoted to nothing short of total extinction. It's more that they serve dark, self-serving pursuits or twisted distortions of more reasonable ideals or fields of study. So, Republicans?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 15:17
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:So, Republicans? Ba-zing
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 15:19
|
|
|
I mean, the common state of the average cultist is 'Well *I'm* definitely going to be the guy who wins the big jackpot, yes sir, and totally not eaten or exploded into tentacles and glistening eggs!'
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 15:26
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:I mean, the common state of the average cultist is 'Well *I'm* definitely going to be the guy who wins the big jackpot, yes sir, and totally not eaten or exploded into tentacles and glistening eggs!' It's more "I have this different view of what the New God is and they exiled my sect for it so gently caress it I'll make my own Cult of the New God" or "holy moley that weird star in the sky sure is something methinks I and a few contemporaries should make a science circle devoted to puzzling it out" or "girls you should try this new drug it makes your fingers turn blue and it's FANTASTIC." Edit: and let's not forget "I got kidnapped by some troglodytes and forced to grind on the pregnancy pole and to be honest I'm kind of into-" *chestbursted* Buck Wildman fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jun 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 15:38
|
|
|
FunkMonkey posted:not even the craziest, most evil person would be nihilistic enough to worship an entity devoted to nothing short of total extinction. Tell that to C-SPAM, acolytes of the great demon "lol nothing matters". Their last words before the demon lord consumes reality would be "lmao this owns reality got cobbed hard" e: drat beaten to a dumb politics joke. Rip_Van_Winkle fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jun 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
Re-reading the supplement, I want to state that I find it hilarious that one of the established rules for top tier demons is basically "upon their appearance, everything in up to an 18 mile radius takes a splajillion damage." Demon princes: for when the DM is thinking it's about time to wrap things up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 16:49
|
|
|
FunkMonkey posted:You should read Hunger in the Void if you want the full skinny on the Demon Lord. It also posits that even the most depraved of the demon cults don't actually know what they're worshipping until it's too late, since not even the craziest, most evil person would be nihilistic enough to worship an entity devoted to nothing short of total extinction. It's more that they serve dark, self-serving pursuits or twisted distortions of more reasonable ideals or fields of study. Oh I do have it, got it as part of that aforementioned bundle. I've skimmed through it and I love it for getting across what the Demon Lord is actually about much better than the core book. I should read it more in depth.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 23:25
|
|
|
FunkMonkey posted:Re-reading the supplement, I want to state that I find it hilarious that one of the established rules for top tier demons is basically "upon their appearance, everything in up to an 18 mile radius takes a splajillion damage." Hunger in the Void is an all around great supplement, yeah. All the different ways for the 'Shadow' to appear in the world, expanded from the corebook, are really cool too. Just fun setting ideas, sometimes with a bit of mechanical weight. 'Apocalypse by Greenery' isn't something I would have normally considered but it would make for a pretty cool campaign.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
bewilderment posted:Hunger in the Void is an all around great supplement, yeah. I like that one too - if I end up doing a second campaign that was the shadow I had in mind for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 04:04
|
|
|
Last night I ran the level-1 adventure "Blood Will Run". Here's some thoughts: The adventure is one of the least railroaded ones I've seen, and players are allowed to gather clues and tackle the scenes in just about any order. We heavily tied it in to the first game, so the players figured out the mystery with relative ease. To the adventure's credit, the adventure rarely calls for die rolls for clues, but I called for them just because it's fun to roll dice. The clues are easily discovered, and it leaves it to the players to piece them together. There are red herrings and intrigues going on, and it could easily go a lot of different ways. The Bonesmith is the pivotal fight of the adventure, and thanks to some good roleplaying the players performed an alpha strike on him and he only got a single turn in, but if he were able to get more turns in, he could easily down a level-1 character. I handed out some extra stuff afterwards because it's a one-shot, why not? The players then descended into the Old Sparrow Estate and fought the fomors down there, which included the dwarf rogue kicking over a bench and knocking a beastman into the fire pit and the priest using foretell to turn the orc rogue into a dual-swords blender who killed 4 fomors in 2 turns in a Battle of Thermopylae situation in a narrow hallway. The jump in power between level 0 and 1 is immense (though having 7 people did tip the odds in the players' favor). Monsters that were an entire fight on their own in level 0 are killed in two hits at level 1. It almost feels like a different game, in a good way. The feeling of progress is fantastic. I flubbed it again on handing out Fortune, and I think I need to make a cheat sheet for myself so that I don't forget certain rules. We also tested out the Endurance rules, which didn't come up very much since the players were very proactive about killing enemies before they could act, but Endurance definitely brings in that 4E Healing Surges feeling and I like it. Overall, I can slap a recommendation on "Blood Will Run". It would make a good level-1 adventure to cut your teeth on and get people a taste of the system above level 0. SotDL is a very fun game to run, in my opinion, and I'll be running a campaign soon. Next Thursday, July 6th at 7PM EST, I'll do doing a level-0 one-shot, "Dark Deeds in Last Hope" where we'll be testing out the zone-based combat and fortune points systems from Forbidden Rules. Drop by the Discord if you're interested, we still have 2 slots open!
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 12:52
|
|
|
Nice write up! Regarding the rolls for clues, what did you do if they failed?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 14:20
|
|
|
Jack B Nimble posted:Nice write up! Regarding the rolls for clues, what did you do if they failed? Actually no one failed a single roll on looking for clues! But if they had, I was gonna give them the clue but I was keeping a Blades in the Dark style clock in the background with 4 segments. For each failed roll, I would fill in a segment and it was ticking down to a hunting party of fomors attacking the village. We had an interesting party composition: 4 Rogues, 2 Priests and 1 Adept. Trickery is strong as hell and a lot of their challenge and attack rolls were 20+.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 14:27
|
|
|
Trickery is very, very strong. I really think it helps rogues shine for any task not explicitly in one of the other niches. Edit: but still only as strong as boons are strong, so not overpowered.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 14:34
|
|
|
Dark Deeds was my campaign opener and I thought it went very well. It's a good mix of mystery/investigation and reasonable combat for rank 0.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 14:43
|
|
|
I was playing one of the Rogues, a dwarven James Bond with a pretty drat good +4 bonus to Perception, 1 boon from Trickery and 1-2 additional boons from my Professions. I don't think I had a single Perception challenge roll under 15... Oh, and since I was the one who pushed for more enchanted items before the game, might as well discuss 'em a bit. I think the adventure had one pre-built, a coin that could detect demons in a large radius which is... nice, I guess? The two that Serf rolled up was an elven weapon that subtracted a bane and we got to pick which type of weapon it was (we ended up going with a bastard sword since it'd effectively negate the cumbersome quality, was used by one of the orcs to excessively murderate a bunch of fomors) and a belt that let its user do a Will vs Will attack to charm someone 1/rest which never got used, since we were too busy killing beastmen to try it out. There was technically one more, that also got used to great effect, but it's part of the adventure and very spoilery 
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 14:53
|
|
|
Antilles posted:I was playing one of the Rogues, a dwarven James Bond with a pretty drat good +4 bonus to Perception, 1 boon from Trickery and 1-2 additional boons from my Professions. I don't think I had a single Perception challenge roll under 15... In case anyone is wondering or doesn't care about spoilers: the weapon was a goreblade, a special item for the adventure. It is a shortsword/cutlass type weapon made from human bone and inscribed with evil symbols. It does an extra 1d6 damage and gives 1 boon to all attacks using it, and when you kill people with it, you send their soul straight to Hell for a devil master, and you take 1 Corruption. When you grab it you make a Will roll, and if you fail you get a curse that forces you to take 1d3 Insanity each week, and if you go mad from that insanity you kill yourself immediately and also go straight to Hell. The player managed to not get cursed and used the goreblade really well on some fomors. Lifting the curse or destroying the weapon takes a Rank 4 spell that the GM thinks is appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 14:58
|
|
|
Serf posted:In case anyone is wondering or doesn't care about spoilers: the weapon was a goreblade, a special item for the adventure. It is a shortsword/cutlass type weapon made from human bone and inscribed with evil symbols. It does an extra 1d6 damage and gives 1 boon to all attacks using it, and when you kill people with it, you send their soul straight to Hell for a devil master, and you take 1 Corruption. When you grab it you make a Will roll, and if you fail you get a curse that forces you to take 1d3 Insanity each week, and if you go mad from that insanity you kill yourself immediately and also go straight to Hell. The player managed to not get cursed and used the goreblade really well on some fomors. Lifting the curse or destroying the weapon takes a Rank 4 spell that the GM thinks is appropriate. The character did not actually escape all side effects of that item, what with sometimes coughing up maggots now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 15:47
|
|
|
I wanna make sure I'm getting something right. Might be edging into house rules or GM fiat here. I converted my crews 5e guys to level 2 in this system, but one of my friends is a bit salty about having a penalty to attacks that it doesn't seem like he'll ever overcome. Like, does the game have a mechanic for having all characters get better in a general sense? I feels a bit silly that a priest that stays on the cleric path will *never* get better at mace'ing poo poo outside of putting points towards his raw strength (which isn't the same as having experience in a task)? Would you automatically give a +1 boon to characters using weapons / rolling challenges that their professions / character identity would advise they'd be better at doing? OR at least better than their raw attributes would indicate? To me this seems fair, but I don't want to overfuck a system I don't understand the economy of yet. Makaris fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jun 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
Makaris posted:I wanna make sure I'm getting something right. Might be edging into house rules or GM fiat here. If he's taking the Priest path, he has opportunities at Expert and Master to branch out into other paths that will make him better at melee combat if he wants. Unless he wants to stick to straight Priest > Cleric > Theurge, he can explore other alternatives and pick up some combat talents elsewhere. I think that the boon that comes with Trickery and Weapon Training are pretty integral to the identity of the Rogue and Warrior, and giving a boon to all attack/challenge rolls might dilute things for people who take those other paths. Then again if your group is cool with it and its something that will make the game more fun for everyone, ignore what I said and do it anyways. That's the most important thing in elfgames, the rules take a backseat to fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:19 |
|
|
I believe WoG is Professions don't add boons to weapon attacks, but Professions definitively adds to other attack and challenge rolls where applicable. If the Priest want to smash faces with a mace, let him learn the Battle tradition.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 21:23
|
|