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DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."


Panfilo posted:

Also, I really like what they did with heat management - it's closer to the tabletop, where overheating just increases the chances of shutdown or ammo explosion, and the more you overheat, the more likely something bad happens. Or you can roll the dice and push your mech to the limit.

Multiple piloting skill checks, fall damage, pilot panic, and pilot checks on missed melee are also nice additions.

Ammo explosion chance on overheat is loving awful, for a variety of reasons. And only one of them is "don't loving nerf ammo using weapons further you idiots".

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Brandfarlig
Nov 5, 2009

These colours don't run.



I'd say RT is mostly just better than the base game. Both revolve around maxing your alpha and spamming called shots but RT gives you way more toys and has a better skill tree. If you think the added difficulty isn't for you that's easily fixable, turn off pilot fatigue and give yourself more starting cash and regular repair times.

MrTargetPractice
Mar 17, 2004



Xarbala posted:

Man, there's already more crazy nonsense that already exists in canon than anybody knows what to do with. I don't see why RT feels the need to make up even more stuff. Also the whole making up "legendary variants" thing.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orca_(BattleMech) Orca when

In the article you linked the Orca was called project omega so maybe the Omega is the Orca.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


How Disgusting posted:

That's all down to project management and doesn't say anything about coders and content creators.

The RT project manager is, in fact, a huge bitch.

How Disgusting
Feb 21, 2018


Conspiratiorist posted:

The RT project manager is, in fact, a huge bitch.

He's incredibly counter-productive, that's for sure. A neckbeard who thinks he's Asuka, eg. the worst sort of non-contributor.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


Which one of you little hooligans mentioned politics?!


Panfilo posted:

Also, I really like what they did with heat management - it's closer to the tabletop, where overheating just increases the chances of shutdown or ammo explosion, and the more you overheat, the more likely something bad happens. Or you can roll the dice and push your mech to the limit.

Multiple piloting skill checks, fall damage, pilot panic, and pilot checks on missed melee are also nice additions.

Note that some of these improvements are from other mods. The heat thing in particular Iíve played with a mostly vanilla game. Youíre right itís great but the Rogue Tech guys didnít come up with it, they just rolled it (and a lot of other projects) into their mega revamp.

Donít take this as some kind of modder ehonor claim. I truly donít give a gently caress. Iím just pointing out that you can get great QOL stuff and alternate mechanics without buying into all the insanity that is rogue tech

Fake edit: youíve mentioned the revamped skills before. Thatís also a stand alone mod. Same with the large deployment contracts.

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."


Yeah it's really easy to mod Battletech into something that is far better than Roguetech. Without even getting your hands dirty doing any notepad edits yourself (although doing that makes the experience even better - see the often linked goon-mod for simple vanilla-esque improvements).

I R SMART LIKE ROCK
Mar 10, 2003

I just want a hug.



Cyrano4747 posted:

Note that some of these improvements are from other mods. The heat thing in particular Iíve played with a mostly vanilla game. Youíre right itís great but the Rogue Tech guys didnít come up with it, they just rolled it (and a lot of other projects) into their mega revamp.

Donít take this as some kind of modder ehonor claim. I truly donít give a gently caress. Iím just pointing out that you can get great QOL stuff and alternate mechanics without buying into all the insanity that is rogue tech

Fake edit: youíve mentioned the revamped skills before. Thatís also a stand alone mod. Same with the large deployment contracts.

To follow up on this here is the list of the mods within RT: https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/articles/27 a lot of them have links to the original mod

Xarbala
Feb 13, 2011

Rolling Thunder: War to the Knife, Knife to the Hilt

Why? , that's why.

MrTargetPractice posted:

In the article you linked the Orca was called project omega so maybe the Omega is the Orca.

Actually the Omega is the Omega

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Omega_(BattleMech)

Xarbala
Feb 13, 2011

Rolling Thunder: War to the Knife, Knife to the Hilt

Why? , that's why.

I first started getting interested in Roguetech when I heard someone was combining a bunch of other mods into one supermod package. But they started to lose me when I heard they'd made up a bunch of "legendary variants" out of whole cloth.

And the 200t Leviathan, even as a fan-made mech, was originally only supposed to be 100 tons.
http://battletechfanon.wikia.com/wi...Custom_%27Mech)

I'd hoped it was going to be a love letter to the vast decades-old library of canon material that the base game left untapped but apparently nah, they don't really give a gently caress so I may as well just play mekhq instead

Like sure, going hog wild like that can be fun but that's not what I'm here for.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Yeah Iíd love to play ďBatletech with 3080/3145 techĒ but I donít want to play MechCommander MekTek.

dreadmojo
Oct 23, 2010

Legit Cyberspook

DatonKallandor posted:

Yeah it's really easy to mod Battletech into something that is far better than Roguetech. Without even getting your hands dirty doing any notepad edits yourself (although doing that makes the experience even better - see the often linked goon-mod for simple vanilla-esque improvements).

Could the thread do this? Like via a google doc or something? I'd be really interested in trying a well curated mod list.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

DatonKallandor posted:

Ammo explosion chance on overheat is loving awful, for a variety of reasons. And only one of them is "don't loving nerf ammo using weapons further you idiots".

It isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be, because the % chance is a lot lower than the % to shut down at a given amount of overheat. Note that the AI is susceptible to this as well, and overheating an enemy mech and having it trigger an ammo explosion is pretty satisfying. There were historically some mechs that were prone to suffering this fate, like one or two of the Panther variants. From a customization perspective, it simply discourages you from building an energy heavy build that tacks on a missile rack as an afterthought, because that ton of ammo might be more of a liability than you care to take.

That isn't getting into the fact that there's CASE and CASEII. CASE is especially valueable on lighter mechs and saves them from getting blown up outright, while CASEII you only take 3 internal damage, lose all the back armor but it spares all the other equipment in the location (including other ammo that didn't initially blow up).

Ballistic weapons are still useful, because they get different ammo types that can be stacked with the rare +++ versions of weapons you find. An +++AC/5 with +1 accuracy, -1 evasion to the target, and bonus range stacks nicely with Precision Ammo, giving you another +1 accuracy. Deadfire SRMs do much more per-missile damage and keep the lighter, standard SRM racks viable over the longer ranged, more accurate (but heavier) Streak SRM racks.


Cyrano4747 posted:

Note that some of these improvements are from other mods. The heat thing in particular I’ve played with a mostly vanilla game. You’re right it’s great but the Rogue Tech guys didn’t come up with it, they just rolled it (and a lot of other projects) into their mega revamp.

Don’t take this as some kind of modder ehonor claim. I truly don’t give a gently caress. I’m just pointing out that you can get great QOL stuff and alternate mechanics without buying into all the insanity that is rogue tech

Fake edit: you’ve mentioned the revamped skills before. That’s also a stand alone mod. Same with the large deployment contracts.

That's true. Though LadyAlekto has directly collaborated with some other modders, and many of the individual mods do dovetail together well. There has also been much more granularity in difficulty, by allowing the player to toggle certain features on or off. Weapons that get bonuses vs overheating targets, and weapons that do scaled damage based on the range bracket they are in are also pretty innovative changes I haven't seen other people pull off.


How Disgusting posted:

He's incredibly counter-productive, that's for sure. A neckbeard who thinks he's Asuka, eg. the worst sort of non-contributor.

Pretty sure the modder is a woman. I figure a lot of the abrasiveness has to do with dealing with a lot of sexism and answering the same dumb questions a hundred times. Take all the toxicity of the Battletech community and imagine what it is like for a woman to make a mod like RogueTech.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Honestly, I found ballistics in RogueTech to be completely underwhelming except for RAC-5s and maybe UACs. The weight, risk of explosion, and heat generated in addition to the ammo cost just tended to be prohibitive compared to lasers, especially since energy weapons did stability damage too. There wasn't much upside to ballistics. SRMs, yes, but I never got much use out of anything besides an early RAC-5 or dual UAC-10s.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Panfilo posted:

Pretty sure the modder is a woman. I figure a lot of the abrasiveness has to do with dealing with a lot of sexism and answering the same dumb questions a hundred times. Take all the toxicity of the Battletech community and imagine what it is like for a woman to make a mod like RogueTech.

Oh, that changes everything.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

Ravenfood posted:

Honestly, I found ballistics in RogueTech to be completely underwhelming except for RAC-5s and maybe UACs. The weight, risk of explosion, and heat generated in addition to the ammo cost just tended to be prohibitive compared to lasers, especially since energy weapons did stability damage too. There wasn't much upside to ballistics. SRMs, yes, but I never got much use out of anything besides an early RAC-5 or dual UAC-10s.

Really? I found them okay. Ultras are nice, but heat becomes a factor and the per hit damage is lower. Rotates are excellent no doubt but chew through ammo.

Rifles are a decent low tech option if you don't have the tonnage for standard autocannon.

SRMs, like I said, are really good. Streak can't use special ammo but they have better range, bonus accuracy and evasion ignore. A Butterbee (catapult variant) with twin SRM6 and dead fire ammo does 23 damage a missile compared to the stock 8.

The rare autocannon bonuses combined with armor piercing ammo and through armor criticals give you a much better crit chance than just using energy weapons.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Panfilo posted:

Really? I found them okay. Ultras are nice, but heat becomes a factor and the per hit damage is lower. Rotates are excellent no doubt but chew through ammo.

Rifles are a decent low tech option if you don't have the tonnage for standard autocannon.

I did forget about rifles, which are good because they have no extra ammo and no heat to speak of. No, there's really no point where I'd want ballistics in RT because they weigh a fuckton and take up a ton of space, what with needing a lot of ammo and a lot of heatsinks just to make worthwhile, and unlike a laserboat, actually risk something besides shutdown when they overheat too. Unless they pack CASE, which is, again, more space. Plus, the ammo makes them vulnerable to through-armor criticals. There's just very little upside to them compared to SRMs or energy weapons, which can stack to stupid values if you boat them, and are basically safe choices at any point.

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at Oct 16, 2018 around 19:41

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


Which one of you little hooligans mentioned politics?!


dreadmojo posted:

Could the thread do this? Like via a google doc or something? I'd be really interested in trying a well curated mod list.

This is a great idea. I had a good campaign with mods back before the last patch that used one of the smaller multi mod packages plus a few add-ons. Look at my post history in the thread and you should find me talking about it. Iím probably going to go at it vanilla for a bit after the expansion to let the modding landscape settle for a while though.

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Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

Toning down the heat on the regular ones, or upping the stability damage would help. I also don't get why the game has the recoil mechanic in the first place, which just punishes autocannon even more. I'd also make the pirate ones less crappy; let the pirate energy weapons be dubiously overengineered contraptions that have truck ballz welded under the barrel, and make pirate AC more like 'a regular AC that shoots twice sometimes/gives the enemy recoil debuffs/generates so much powder smoke it partially conceals your mech.

Energy weapons do get a lot of options in contrast, that's true. ER PPC+Capacitor is a brutal headcapper. Snub Nose PPC has a really big short range bracket and weighs less than half of its Gauss counterpart. ER small lasers have really good range for a 0.5 ton weapon.

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