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Paingod556
Nov 8, 2011

Not a problem, sir

Zaodai posted:

Yeah, but these guys have actually made games that don't suck in the past.

This. HBS has the original FASA heads including the guy who made MechCommander, and have delivered the solid as gently caress Shadowrun games

's pedigree is the lacklustre Nakatomi Plaza shooter and the multiplayer component of DNF, which apparently was somehow the least inspired and most boring part of that game


Battletech is gonna be alright

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Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation


Paingod556 posted:

This. HBS has the original FASA heads including the guy who made MechCommander, and have delivered the solid as gently caress Shadowrun games

's pedigree is the lacklustre Nakatomi Plaza shooter and the multiplayer component of DNF, which apparently was somehow the least inspired and most boring part of that game


Battletech is gonna be alright

They even have some of the original MechCommander voice actors working in the studio!

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

that avatar was in poor taste, and you'll probably change this one anyway, but let's contribute a bit to lowtax's health insurance at least have something better for a small while

- scrooge mcduck


I went on a road trip and read that fan made TRO. There are some legitimately funny bits in it, like the computer for the Phoenix Hawk being made by Apple, a company that couldn't figure out how to spend all its profits so it bought a planet.

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation


Cyrano4747 posted:

I went on a road trip and read that fan made TRO. There are some legitimately funny bits in it, like the computer for the Phoenix Hawk being made by Apple, a company that couldn't figure out how to spend all its profits so it bought a planet.

That planet is real in the lore and not made up by the fan, it is also brilliant. I also like that General Motors invented the fusion engine and that catapulted them to galactic fame.

Some of the stuff in the TRO is really good, I liked that the cockpit in one of the mechs is so small that the technicians were trialing a command couch that the pilot lay prone on instead of sitting upright to try and fit them in.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

The Suffering of the Succotash.


Strobe posted:

Too tall. But that's a scale problem that's been happening with MWO and the MechWarrior 5 video that PGI is trying to make, too, so I'm not surprised it showed up here.

never mind. That image has some real layering issues.

A.o.D. fucked around with this message at May 30, 2017 around 02:13

Strobe
Jun 30, 2014

I've never liked lasers. Not enough kick. I've never liked missiles. Too impersonal. Give me the rumble and the thunder. Give me the guns, guns, guns.

A.o.D. posted:

never mind. That image has some real layering issues.

Even before you edited this it's still not good scaling. Six people, give or take, stacked on top of each other should make it up to mid-chest on an Atlas. As it stands you might get all the way to its waist like that. If that. Looking at it some more, they might barely get past the knees.

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."


The tanks seem pretty decently scaled in that image, at least going by that old line-art scale comparison picture that got linked ages ago. A shrek goes to the shins of a Banshee - assuming those are assault tanks and an Atlas is slightly bigger than a Banshee, that checks out.

Bubbacub
Apr 17, 2001



Somebody should figure out the density of that Atlas if we accept the 100T weight. A modern 70 ton MBT is probably the size of it's crotch box. I bet it would float.

Prav
Oct 29, 2011


Bubbacub posted:

I bet it would float.

in water, or in air?

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.




Bubbacub posted:

Somebody should figure out the density of that Atlas if we accept the 100T weight. A modern 70 ton MBT is probably the size of it's crotch box. I bet it would float.

Canon Atlases are already lacking enough in density to float, from what people have said about the distribution of 100 tons compared to their physical dimensions. Blowing them up by another 60% or what ever would make it even more hilarious.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011


Fun Shoe

vorebane posted:

An apartment for a cockpit is ideal for extended missions. Plus you can invite your girlfriend along!

Then you can have a cockpit in your cockpit! I'm so sorry

If I can't smoke while pooping in my cockpit, I'm not getting in.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011


Fun Shoe

Phrosphor posted:

They even have some of the original MechCommander voice actors working in the studio!

THIS IS ROOSTER

rocketrobot
Jul 11, 2003



Bubbacub posted:

Somebody should figure out the density of that Atlas if we accept the 100T weight. A modern 70 ton MBT is probably the size of it's crotch box. I bet it would float.

It gets less irritating to try to reconcile the weight of these things if you simply consider it to be "loadout weight." Nevermind that all of the components are included in that loadout.

Paingod556
Nov 8, 2011

Not a problem, sir

< is also relevant


They've said many many times they want him back. And I think so does everyone else


And going off the discussions over the past 4 years in PTN's thread- 'Mechs are mostly hollow, because it was either that excuse or they do what happened in Honorverse and retcon every single ship ever to stop them having 'the density of cigar smoke'.

Bubbacub
Apr 17, 2001



Zaodai posted:

Canon Atlases are already lacking enough in density to float, from what people have said about the distribution of 100 tons compared to their physical dimensions. Blowing them up by another 60% or what ever would make it even more hilarious.

Wanna see an Atlas floating in a tropical sea, drinking booze out of an apartment building-sized coconut with a circus tent umbrella.

blackmongoose
Mar 31, 2011

DARK INFERNO ROOK!


If I recall correctly, Battletech armor is basically a magical material with multiple properties that are well outside the realm of physics, but most people accept it as a setting conceit because it's the only thing that makes giant robots workable. The magic armor is a significant contributor to the low density of Mechs, especially if you assume the internal structure is made of similarly low density magic stuff.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort



blackmongoose posted:

If I recall correctly, Battletech armor is basically a magical material with multiple properties that are well outside the realm of physics, but most people accept it as a setting conceit because it's the only thing that makes giant robots workable. The magic armor is a significant contributor to the low density of Mechs, especially if you assume the internal structure is made of similarly low density magic stuff.
Couldnt it just be that the armor on Battlemechs is great but takes up a lot of space, which is why mechs are so light yet so large?

Psion
Dec 13, 2002



See, in the IS, they use the new Kerensky Ton, which doesn't mean 2000lb/1000kg (depending on if you mean short ton/metric ton) so therefore...

Really, just come up with whatever handwave you want to come up with. They're all equally valid. Myomer is magic muscle fiber and can be whatever the setting demands - I don't know if any of the line developers have gone into answering how mech armor and mass works, but I hope the answer is "very well, thank you"

trying to rationalize it just doesn't get you anywhere in the end, because once you figure out a workable made-up reason to explain mech weights, you get into ammunition weight and then it's all downhill from there very fast. I think I did the math on Arrow IVs and gauss rifles once and regretted the mistake, trust me.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.




The whole setting falls apart if you try and justify why the stompy robots are the way they are. They are inherently illogical, so we should all just relax.

Prav
Oct 29, 2011


Psion posted:

See, in the IS, they use the new Kerensky Ton

half as heavy, two times as convenient

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort



Psion posted:

See, in the IS, they use the new Kerensky Ton, which doesn't mean 2000lb/1000kg (depending on if you mean short ton/metric ton) so therefore...

Really, just come up with whatever handwave you want to come up with. They're all equally valid. Myomer is magic muscle fiber and can be whatever the setting demands - I don't know if any of the line developers have gone into answering how mech armor and mass works, but I hope the answer is "very well, thank you"

trying to rationalize it just doesn't get you anywhere in the end, because once you figure out a workable made-up reason to explain mech weights, you get into ammunition weight and then it's all downhill from there very fast. I think I did the math on Arrow IVs and gauss rifles once and regretted the mistake, trust me.
No but you see it has to make sense because...

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.


Suspension of disbelief is clearly lostech.

Feindfeuer
Jun 20, 2013

shoot men, receive credits

Giant Robots punching and shooting each other doesn't make a lot of sense if you already got tanks and planes, but they are fun. That's all that counts. Turns out that in the far future, the Ares Convention was not about safety of non combatants, but about making war more fun, so everyone got battle mechs. That's good enough of an explanation for me.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

that avatar was in poor taste, and you'll probably change this one anyway, but let's contribute a bit to lowtax's health insurance at least have something better for a small while

- scrooge mcduck


Feindfeuer posted:

Giant Robots punching and shooting each other doesn't make a lot of sense if you already got tanks and planes, but they are fun. That's all that counts. Turns out that in the far future, the Ares Convention was not about safety of non combatants, but about making war more fun, so everyone got battle mechs. That's good enough of an explanation for me.

The in-game explanation is the suitability of the vehicles. Within the context of the TT rules it makes a lot of sense. It is obscenely easy to immobilize a vehicle with a hit to the tracks in TT, which makes mechs a LOT better at taking damage and continuing to be effective.

Feindfeuer
Jun 20, 2013

shoot men, receive credits

But only because they have the ability to have an obscene amount of armor on those legs compared to tracks which can't be armored with skirts or anything for some obscure reason. The ingame explanation only makes sense if you don't think about it and just accept it. I'm fine with that, but it's far from a good explanation.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.




Plus the stuff that makes mechs so light would ideally make aircraft even more suited to wreck the poo poo out of mechs, especially given their potato range weaponry.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012



Robots are cool thats why they are in battletech hth friends.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009



Hair Elf

Feindfeuer posted:

But only because they have the ability to have an obscene amount of armor on those legs compared to tracks which can't be armored with skirts or anything for some obscure reason. The ingame explanation only makes sense if you don't think about it and just accept it. I'm fine with that, but it's far from a good explanation.

WELL, ACTUALLY, YOU CAN USE ARMORED MOTIVE SYSTEMS ON YOUR VEHICLES, BUT


(Yea it's just all fun fluff )

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation


Don't forget that robit armour makes conventional weapons completely useless against them. A shell from a conventional modern day mbt would do negligible damage to a Mech'.

LeschNyhan
Sep 2, 2006



The construction rules don't account for the weight of the myomer itself. Rules as written describe the structural skeleton, reactor, gyro, cockpit, heat sinks, armour, and guns. So I just handwave in a few unreported hundred tons of myomer and associated support equipment and call it a day.

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?

Lipstick Apathy

Yeah, I'd always heard it as a Mech's tonnage being how much extra weight you could stack on top of an already heavy myomer frame and maintain effectiveness, not that the Atlas is literally only 100 tons. That works okay, is that not the 'canon' route or whatever?

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.




Psycho Landlord posted:

Yeah, I'd always heard it as a Mech's tonnage being how much extra weight you could stack on top of an already heavy myomer frame and maintain effectiveness, not that the Atlas is literally only 100 tons. That works okay, is that not the 'canon' route or whatever?

If that were the canon excuse, your equipped stuff would add up to 100T.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

I would always rather be happy than dignified


I always considered the myomers to be part of the engine tonnage. The more power also means stronger myomers, which contributed to the diminishing return of engine power versus weight.

veedubfreak
Apr 2, 2005

by Smythe


You're all overthinking it.

The real reason is...........cocaine.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005

OFFICIAL BITCH OF DANBO DAXTER




Oven Wrangler

God, why do you nerds have to ruin this for me?

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.




Internet Explorer posted:

God, why do you nerds have to ruin this for me?

Someone has to do it.

Prav
Oct 29, 2011


Internet Explorer posted:

God, why do you nerds have to ruin this for me?

and we haven't even brought up ground pressure yet

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

"War. War is not about bathrooms."


The setting already contains techno-magical FTL so who cares if they bend a few other laws of physics? Robots are cool; don't overthink this poo poo.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

Xotl posted:

It'd be a fun novel or sourcebook excerpt, anyways. A bunch of mechs wildly flailing with their limbs like a Power Rangers episode, with the pilots all yelling about how so and so killed my father and now vengeance is mine and then the flying dropkicks commence.

*adds notes to next sourcebook pitch

I'd be down for a RetroTech 80s Sourcebook, where all the `Mechs are covered in neon lights, every piece of art has a mullet or legwarmers, and lasers are blasters from Star Trek again.

Just promise to add a new SPA called "Yelling While Shooting" which makes burst-fire machineguns do 1d6+1 damage.



Edit: And to curb the dumb `Mech argument: BattleMechs are 99% air, just like the heat panels on the space shuttle.

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at May 31, 2017 around 02:26

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gazza
Oct 20, 2013


I appreciate that the posts saying "don't bother rationalizing this stuff" have been followed by nonstop rationalization of this stuff

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