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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.





Jack B Nimble posted:

I thought that might happen, I tried to imagine an atlas flipping back and forth like a contra character and couldn't; I'm guessing the piloting skill turning one evasion a turn into two will become a lot more useful then. Honestly I'm really looking forward to having some diversity in my front line options instead of three mechs playing musical chairs with tree stands while a third stands back at long range.

Is there a skill tree that is about NOT moving? I feel like Bulwark applies to any cover but I'm worried/hoping I'm missing something.

The game wants you to move around because standing in a line and shooting until one side dies like it's the Napoleonic Wars is dumb and boring. Moving is usually going to be better than not moving, because you get some bonus evasion (even assault mechs getting one or two evasion pips with their slowass movement can make a difference) and can finagle your weapon ranges to be more optimal or hit a better arc on your opponents or whatever. Sometimes there are cases where you don't want to move, like if you can only see the enemy from the spot where you're already standing or if you're already in cover and can't reach any other cover from your current position, but generally speaking the game wants you to be constantly shifting positions to stop the fight from getting dull.

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anakha
Sep 16, 2009


Say 'Thank you, Ershin'.

Say it.




Bulwark used to be a skill that benefitted standing still prior to its current incarnation. Now, it buffs your defense if you're in any sort of cover.

TBH, your defensive options are basically either having thick enough armor and cover to tank your opponents or have enough evasion pips to minimize the shots that can hit you. Evasion is a huge part in evening the odds against the greater numbers you face in any mission, so if you're not big on jumping, you you need to have Mechs that can generate at least 3 evasion pips just by moving and shooting, or have one of those expensive-as-hell gyros that maximizes hit defence.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Jack B Nimble posted:

I thought that might happen, I tried to imagine an atlas flipping back and forth like a contra character and couldn't; I'm guessing the piloting skill turning one evasion a turn into two will become a lot more useful then. Honestly I'm really looking forward to having some diversity in my front line options instead of three mechs playing musical chairs with tree stands while a third stands back at long range.

Is there a skill tree that is about NOT moving? I feel like Bulwark applies to any cover but I'm worried/hoping I'm missing something.
No, you're right, Bulwark applies to any piece of cover. The main thing that "encourages" not moving is piloting heavies and especially assaults, since most of them are just slow

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007




Soiled Meat

Ok, so I'm not failing to appreciate three equal movement options, great, thank you.

Another question: PPCs? I think they're 50 damage vs a L Lasers 40, but double the heat, more tonage, no innate accuracy bonus, and a minimum range? I want to love them because they're my favorite mechwarrior weapon but they're a hard sell in medium Mechs. I'm hoping they make more sense in heavier mechs because dual PPCs is iconic Mechwarrior kit.

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem

Vanilla PPCs just suck poo poo, sorry. The good news is there are a bajillion mods that tune them up to be on the level of all the other weapons.

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


Jack B Nimble posted:

Ok, so I'm not failing to appreciate three equal movement options, great, thank you.

Another question: PPCs? I think they're 50 damage vs a L Lasers 40, but double the heat, more tonage, no innate accuracy bonus, and a minimum range? I want to love them because they're my favorite mechwarrior weapon but they're a hard sell in medium Mechs. I'm hoping they make more sense in heavier mechs because dual PPCs is iconic Mechwarrior kit.

PPC suck in vanilla on all mechs sadly. They generate too much heat.

It's easy to mod the heat down to like 28 but unmodded only snub PPCs from the Heavy Metal DLC are good.

I posted a link earlier that includes a PPC heat fix IIRC.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Jack B Nimble posted:

Ok, so I'm not failing to appreciate three equal movement options, great, thank you.

Another question: PPCs? I think they're 50 damage vs a L Lasers 40, but double the heat, more tonage, no innate accuracy bonus, and a minimum range? I want to love them because they're my favorite mechwarrior weapon but they're a hard sell in medium Mechs. I'm hoping they make more sense in heavier mechs because dual PPCs is iconic Mechwarrior kit.
PPCs are just kind bad in the unmodded game. A lot of people change them to cut their heat by about a third, which make them much more useable. You can do it by modifying a single text file, if you want to.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007




Soiled Meat

Jabor posted:

Vanilla PPCs just suck poo poo, sorry. The good news is there are a bajillion mods that tune them up to be on the level of all the other weapons.

Ugh can I mod an in progress playthrough?

Edit: sounds like it.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Jack B Nimble posted:

Ugh can I mod an in progress playthrough?
Yes

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


Just find .json files with PPC in the name and use notepad to change heat from 35 to like 28 on the regular ones and 45 to 35 or even 32 for ER PPCs.

Organ Fiend
May 21, 2007

custom title


Jack B Nimble posted:

Ugh can I mod an in progress playthrough?

Edit: sounds like it.

I posted a while back on how to make simple mods with .json edits. Its really easy.

Organ Fiend posted:

Its fairly simple to create mods that just change weapon stats. I'll use PPCs as an example.

If you look in the \steamapps\common\BATTLETECH\BattleTech_Data\StreamingAssets\data\weapon folder you'll see a bunch of .json files (they're just text files in a specific format, and can be edited like text files). The names of the files are self explanatory, so you should be able to find the .json files for all of the PPCs (i.e. stock PPC and variant versions).

You could directly edit the .json files here, but there are a number of reasons why you don't want to do that. What you want to do is create a mod that replaces these .json files with ones you've edited.

To do this first create the following directory: my games\BattleTech\mods\my_mod_name

Inside this directory, create a file called mod.json. The contents of it can look like this:
code:
{
    "Name": "my_mod_name",
    "Enabled": true,

    "Version": "1.0.0",
    "Description": "Fix PPC heat",
    "Author": "Me",
    "Website": "https://github.com/lol/notarealurl",
    "Contact": "",
	
	"Settings" : {}
}
Inside the my_mod_name directory, create the following directory: StreamingAssets\data\weapon. Notice how this mirrors the directory structure for the games data files.

Copy and paste all of the .json files for PPCs into this directory. If you read the file (any text editor will do), you should be able to see how all of the weapon stats are stored. If you want to change heat, you'd find the line that says
code:
"HeatGenerated" : 35,
and just change that 35 to whatever you want. You can do this to any of the other values found in the .json file.

The full directory path for modified .json files should be as follows: my games\BattleTech\mods\my_mod_name\StreamingAssets\data\weapon

Since "enabled" is set to true in mod.json, the mod should be active the next time you start the game. If you want to check, click on the MODS button in the lower left of the title screen. Your mod should be listed and be checked off as active. Load a save and check the heat value (or whatever) is changed.

If this doesn't work, try putting the mod folder in the \steamapps\common\BATTLETECH\Mods directory instead of my games\BattleTech\mods\. At one point one worked, and then the other did ... I think they both work now, but I'm not sure.

fennesz
Dec 29, 2008



Glad to see that this thread is still giving newbies good advice. I would have completely given up on the game years ago, but these chaps set me straight

A Strange Aeon
Mar 26, 2010

You are now a slimy little toad


The Great Twist

I just finished the campaign which was fun. Am I now in career mode and flashpoints will begin to pop up?

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


A Strange Aeon posted:

I just finished the campaign which was fun. Am I now in career mode and flashpoints will begin to pop up?

Yes they should appear pretty quickly once you advance the time.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010



Jack B Nimble posted:

Another question: PPCs? I think they're 50 damage vs a L Lasers 40, but double the heat, more tonage, no innate accuracy bonus, and a minimum range? I want to love them because they're my favorite mechwarrior weapon but they're a hard sell in medium Mechs. I'm hoping they make more sense in heavier mechs because dual PPCs is iconic Mechwarrior kit.

Snub PPCs are better in almost every single way, the only downside is that they spray damage like a shotgun instead of a single hit. Especially if you can find some of the ++ damage Snub PPCs, since they pump out 125 damage for only 35 heat.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


A Strange Aeon posted:

I just finished the campaign which was fun. Am I now in career mode and flashpoints will begin to pop up?
Yes. Though note that, thanks to the campaign missions, you'll almost certainly have tanked your rep with the Taurians to -100. It's either very very hard or actually impossible, I forget which, to get it back up again. It's not the biggest deal but it does mean you're probably best off looking elsewhere on the map for missions.

A Strange Aeon
Mar 26, 2010

You are now a slimy little toad


The Great Twist

Zephro posted:

Yes. Though note that, thanks to the campaign missions, you'll almost certainly have tanked your rep with the Taurians to -100. It's either very very hard or actually impossible, I forget which, to get it back up again. It's not the biggest deal but it does mean you're probably best off looking elsewhere on the map for missions.

Yeah, I noticed they loathed me now. The tooltip says missions pay minus 90% and their stores won't sell to me, so theoretically it seems like I could eat poo poo for several missions to raise my reputation with them, but I guess my question is would that be worth doing? Do the Taurian have a unique flashpoint I'll miss out on if I don't?

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


A Strange Aeon posted:

Yeah, I noticed they loathed me now. The tooltip says missions pay minus 90% and their stores won't sell to me, so theoretically it seems like I could eat poo poo for several missions to raise my reputation with them, but I guess my question is would that be worth doing? Do the Taurian have a unique flashpoint I'll miss out on if I don't?
It's been a while since I played campaign but IIRC you'll only be able to accept half-skull missions from the Taurians at that rep. In theory you could slog your way back into their good graces, but I think in practise those missions are very very hard to find - or maybe even impossible. As I said it's been a while so I can't remember the exact details, sorry...

edit: to answer your question, no, I don't think there are any Taurian flashpoints

Zephro fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jun 7, 2021

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



Games Idiot Court Jester


A Strange Aeon posted:

Yeah, I noticed they loathed me now. The tooltip says missions pay minus 90% and their stores won't sell to me, so theoretically it seems like I could eat poo poo for several missions to raise my reputation with them, but I guess my question is would that be worth doing? Do the Taurian have a unique flashpoint I'll miss out on if I don't?

Nope, only the great houses give an alliance flashpoint, you can safely not give a poo poo about the Taurians

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.





I don't think it's worth it anyway. I've never seen a Taurian flashpoint, they don't get along with anybody so allying with them is a bad idea, they make a good punching bag for Magistracy and FedSuns missions, and I don't think they have anything good in their faction store anyway. Just embrace the -100 rep and keep clowning on them forever.

Tiny Chalupa
Feb 14, 2012


Seeing horror stories of 4 skull missions and here I am trying to wait on 2 skull missions until I can get my first 80 ton plus mech purchased and going lol
I am dropping in to my missions with:
Wolverine (built with multiple SRM's and a Flamer + with maxed Armour. Jumping into back arcs
My idea was a bigger Firestarter basically)
Centurion
Quickdraw(don't love this mech)
Phoenix Hawk/Vindicator

I am finally finding some PPC variations and AC/SRM/LRM + finally in stores

I REALLY like the PPC so I'm working towards getting a Awesome and a Marauder purchased. Got my main merc, my guy, up to 9 in Tactics. I just wanna head shot Mechs

Missions are getting to the point where I take on 2 lances at a time over the length of a mission. Typically one is a bunch of light mechs and one in the 45-60 ton range

A Strange Aeon
Mar 26, 2010

You are now a slimy little toad


The Great Twist

I sort of wish I'd had worse luck in getting big mech parts early because I have my team now and don't really see any reason I'd drop in with anything else unless I got absolutely wrecked and was forced to, but it's hard to see how that would happen, assuming the high skull missions I did throughout the campaign alongside the priority missions were the same as they'll be in career mode.

Long way of saying, I see why people move on from vanilla.

And I dunno, going for headshots all the time feels cheesy but it's so effective, it's hard to not do it. I liked looking at an enemy's load out and deciding what arm to try to target to knock out a fearsome weapon before my pilots were any good, whereas now it's almost always called head shot every time.

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?



i want to play more BTA because i really like the extended mechlab it has, but the new crash bug is a real turnoff.

i wish there was also a reason to ever use chemical lasers or rifles or any of the other primitive tech.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009



Hair Elf

Fwiw I've had no issues at all as long as I don't melee, but... that's my favorite kind of mech :x

My poor berserker just sits on the Argo doing nothing!!

Amechwarrior
Jan 29, 2007



A Strange Aeon posted:

I just finished the campaign which was fun. Am I now in career mode and flashpoints will begin to pop up?

Yes, given you have the DLC (each one has different FPs, but get all 3) and remember, it takes a bit for them to first appear. I can't recall if it's like 30 days in, but I remember it taking some time.

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?



yeah melee and dfa are my favourite things in battletech

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


A Strange Aeon posted:

I just finished the campaign which was fun. Am I now in career mode and flashpoints will begin to pop up?

By the way, it's usually better to start a new career mode game rather than playing past the story ending in campaign mode and doing the flashpoints, because you'll be super overleveled for like half of them from doing the story first.

A Strange Aeon
Mar 26, 2010

You are now a slimy little toad


The Great Twist

sean10mm posted:

By the way, it's usually better to start a new career mode game rather than playing past the story ending in campaign mode and doing the flashpoints, because you'll be super overleveled for like half of them from doing the story first.

Probably a good idea, I feel massively OP already and I don't have many goals left, so starting over would make sense. I captured some assaults pretty early, too, so I haven't played around with many lights or mediums.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.





Try a career with mech salvage higher than 3 parts. 4 or 5 is a good middle value where it slows down your pace through the game but doesn't completely refocus your strategy towards buying whole mechs on the black market. It's worth trying 8-part salvage at least once. But either way, yeah it's way better to start over. You could probably solo some entire flashpoints with one of the two SLDF assaults the campaign gives you for free.

fennesz
Dec 29, 2008



vyelkin posted:

Try a career with mech salvage higher than 3 parts. 4 or 5 is a good middle value where it slows down your pace through the game but doesn't completely refocus your strategy towards buying whole mechs on the black market. It's worth trying 8-part salvage at least once. But either way, yeah it's way better to start over. You could probably solo some entire flashpoints with one of the two SLDF assaults the campaign gives you for free.

Something like 8 part salvage only seems like it would work with vanilla to me. The big mods add so many mechs completing anything would be an absolute nightmare.

Ardlen
Sep 30, 2005
WoT

Some of the mods let you combine variants, which could alleviate some of the issues with requiring sets of 8.

Ygolonac
Nov 26, 2007

pre:
*************
CLUTCH  NIXON
*************

The Hero We Need


Yeah, unless it's a really unique variant (like the optional Quicsell oddities, or Legendaries), RogueTech lets you kludge together different variants for a price, and the mechbay will tell you which variants any given part is compatible with. Quicsell appears to only work with other -QS of the same type, and in 3-part assembly, you need at least two of the legendary variant to build one - two Arctic Wolf parts plus one of any other Archer makes the special one, but it costs extra just to assemble; three parts is free assembly, and everything has the same chance to recover non-wrecked parts and components.

RT also has Primitive variants, which are what they say on the tin, but will work just fine as kitbash-fodder, or if you need something relatively decent but low-combat-value for low-skull missions. Or, if you're interested in a more difficult game and want to run grody pirate poo poo with dual stacks spewing more smoke than the Admiral Kuznetzov. Pit the cream of the Clans against Methwarriors stomping around in diesel-powered garage builds, giggling "LOL chainsaws go BRRRRRRT" and welding rotary autocannon feeds into Thundebolt missile magazines.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


I love the scales that the plot in this game operates on. The Aurigan Coalition, this little podunk nothing, have the entire course of their civil war swung by the support (or lack thereof) of the Taurians and the Canopans, both of whom control more than twice as many systems as they do! In the context of this story being told, it effectively makes you feel like you're just small potatoes in the context of a larger world.

Which is good, because you scale out a step farther, and realize that this is the Periphery, and everybody involved all together would still be more of an annoyance to the great houses than a threat. It's like they're having a "my dad could beat up your dad" argument, and you look at both dads and they're just kind of dumpy and out of shape. Meanwhile their uncle Capellan is sharpening his katana, and Grandpa Com-Star's got his shotgun and is watching from the porch.

anakha
Sep 16, 2009


Say 'Thank you, Ershin'.

Say it.




How well the Battletech lore has been developed had to have been both a benefit and a hindrance to the devs when they were storyboarding this game.

They had to be careful not to step on canonical events or rehash storylines that were already done in other Battletech/Mechwarrior/Mechcommander games, but at the same time, there were still whole areas of the Inner Sphere that existing Battletech lore had not dug into yet that the devs could utilize with the simmering Great House conflicts as the backdrop.

If there's ever another BT/MW/MC-related game in the works, I'd love for them to dive into the bandit kingdoms or a smaller holding like the Outworlds Alliance - a place advanced enough to build its own Mechs (hello Merlin!) but underdeveloped enough for a game to work with.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.





anakha posted:

How well the Battletech lore has been developed had to have been both a benefit and a hindrance to the devs when they were storyboarding this game.

They had to be careful not to step on canonical events or rehash storylines that were already done in other Battletech/Mechwarrior/Mechcommander games, but at the same time, there were still whole areas of the Inner Sphere that existing Battletech lore had not dug into yet that the devs could utilize with the simmering Great House conflicts as the backdrop.

If there's ever another BT/MW/MC-related game in the works, I'd love for them to dive into the bandit kingdoms or a smaller holding like the Outworlds Alliance - a place advanced enough to build its own Mechs (hello Merlin!) but underdeveloped enough for a game to work with.

One of the devs, when they posted those long blog posts talking about the game design, dug into this a little bit. They said that was one of their first concerns, finding a time period and a location where the lore was not fleshed out and where they could create a lot of little systems and factions and conflicts that didn't contradict any of the lore and could fit into it, while also letting them tell the more serious and less goofy story they wanted to tell.

It's such a tough line to walk in a game universe with this much superfluous backstory, because you want to have a game where the player feels like they're making a difference but also without feeling like they're on rails acting out things somebody already wrote into lore thirty years ago.

Organ Fiend
May 21, 2007

custom title


A Strange Aeon posted:

Probably a good idea, I feel massively OP already and I don't have many goals left, so starting over would make sense. I captured some assaults pretty early, too, so I haven't played around with many lights or mediums.

When you've finished the Campaign and feel massively OP, then its time to try career mode.

You won't get the SLDF Highlander and Atlas just handed to you, you won't have any campaign missions injecting huge quantities of c-bills early on, and you start with slightly worse mechs. Flashpoints are there for extra cash and rep farming, but they're not as hand-holding as the campaign missions.

If you need goals, the career mode has a scoring system. It will actually test your ability in/knowledge of the game (you can't waste any time, so if your mechs are getting wrecked every mission, you won't reach max score), although meeting the 800 million c-bills goal is a bit grindy.

When you can get to max (or near max) score in career with no issues, then its time to start thinking about one of the mega mods.

Dyz
Dec 10, 2010


Dont you have to basically plot your jumps perfectly to get the systems visited score to max and start farming 4+ skull missions with headchoppers at day 800ish to get the cbill score to max?

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Organ Fiend posted:

When you can get to max (or near max) score in career with no issues, then its time to start thinking about one of the mega mods.
I think this is a bit harsh, tbh. I never played vanilla career and jumped straight into BEX after finishing the campaign. It's been going fine. (Though it may help that I don't really care what score I get and am just playing to have fun)

Organ Fiend
May 21, 2007

custom title


Zephro posted:

I think this is a bit harsh, tbh. I never played vanilla career and jumped straight into BEX after finishing the campaign. It's been going fine. (Though it may help that I don't really care what score I get and am just playing to have fun)

Sorry, wasn't meant to be harsh.

It was more of a "this is when you've broken the game over your knee and have nothing left to extract from it" than a "if you wanna play a mega mod, then you need to GIT GUD you n00b!"

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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.





The score mechanism is so arbitrary and ridiculous that my judgment of when you've broken the vanilla game is when you can land on a 5-skull planet and clear out every contract without needing to repair any of your mechs.

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