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Focus begets quality after all. I'm glad they're focusing on delivering a polished core experience.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:46
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My other favorite part of the stream: "Will there be a Star League Cache you can uncover in the campaign" All three look directly at the camera, "No!" Mike can't help but smirk.
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Feb 15, 2018 01:08
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I'm not sure, I was wavering on buying already due to the 4 mech limit and now this. But on the other hand, if it doesn't sell then a hypothetical version closer to what I want won't come out anyways. Plenty of time to mull it over from the looks of it at least
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Feb 15, 2018 01:10
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Phrosphor posted:My other favorite part of the stream: So... yes?
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Feb 15, 2018 01:37
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Losing artillery and aerospace support is unfortunate but it's just a feature that functionally amounts to "press button to do thing." I'm disappointed it's gone but it was never one of the Most Important features. They've also indicated that The Release version is NOT the Final version, so I have faith they'll figure out good ways to integrate new features and given that they've already proven their track record with the Shadowrun games, they seem to know what makes a game good.
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Feb 15, 2018 02:22
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Offmap support is really only meaningful in games with cities, infantry and fixed defenses even when playing with tabletop rules. Unless you play AeroTech by the original rules in which case you don't need to bother playing with the mechs, they're just dead. I really like the idea of 'mechs being this super mobile elite force that has capability to deploy anywhere on a planet in a matter of hours, which changed over time due to cultural/economical/political reasons into the only allowed way of fighting. History is full of examples of this sort of ritual warfare that doesn't make sense if you look at it as an outsider. It made the setting feel like it was inhabited by people with their own odd ideas about things. Computer game that drops all the support is a-ok in my book as long as it gets the important bits right. Mech combat is a grand affair with all the pomp and circumstance you'd expect from sir Special Forces riding his metal steed into eternal glory. Best not get any commoners involved.
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Feb 15, 2018 03:44
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Artillery (and Mines, Infantry) have always been area denial weapons. Their loss to the game really only matters in how much of an advantage turtling gives you. But since this is primarily a single player game, my guess is : not much. For multiplayer? Well this isn't MWO where turtle tactics are life and death, you can charge down a hill and actually succeed.
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Feb 15, 2018 04:33
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Hob_Gadling posted:Offmap support is really only meaningful in games with cities, infantry and fixed defenses even when playing with tabletop rules. Unless you play AeroTech by the original rules in which case you don't need to bother playing with the mechs, they're just dead. Yeah, I'm with you on this. Battletech is definitely a thing that is not well served by discussions of combined arms tactics or realism.
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Feb 15, 2018 04:56
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MilkmanLuke posted:Yeah, I'm with you on this. Battletech is definitely a thing that is not well served by discussions of combined arms tactics or realism. Except when it is.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:52
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Simplifierad economy and easy salvage gives me an iffy feeling. I like it a bit harder and more complicated.
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Feb 15, 2018 20:42
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Affi posted:Simplifierad economy and easy salvage gives me an iffy feeling. I like it a bit harder and more complicated. I'm with you there, but if they have to cut complexity out of the system somewhere to save time, it's probably the least harmful component to go. 
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Feb 15, 2018 20:45
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Zaodai posted:I'm with you there, but if they have to cut complexity out of the system somewhere to save time, it's probably the least harmful component to go. I'm just so invested in this even without having played the beta. I'll pretty much take time off work playing this once it's out. Needs to be good:
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Feb 15, 2018 20:49
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It should still be pretty good. The core combat in the beta was fun. It's definitely going to need some meat around it in the campaign, but hopefully that's coming in the form of the contract stuff and factions rather than just maintenance work and buying supplies. If they had to pick between the two for dev time, I think I'd rather have the time go towards the actual merc content and not so much the logistics, even if I do love me some logistics.
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Feb 15, 2018 21:14
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MilkmanLuke posted:Yeah, I'm with you on this. Battletech is definitely a thing that is not well served by discussions of combined arms tactics or realism. I still really loathe the short view distances they went with to try to force an X-Com style thing in an environment it doesn't exist. It will never not drive me nuts (and subsequently, be promptly modded out of my game) that my 'mechs can't see far enough to fire their short range guns without someone holding their hand. Alchenar posted:My instinct is that deployable aoe abilities that force a 'move from here or take damage' work really well in cover based games like XCOM where they force a real dilemma, but don't really make any sense in a game like battletech where the concept is 'knights jousting' and the default is that movement is life and standing still is mostly a bad idea. BattleTech mechanically has way more in common with WW2 tank combat than knight jousting. Also the big problem is how these people keep doing air strikes. They never make the air unit a full unit, like a 'mech, that makes full attacks, like a 'mech. That's what you have to do with it. It worked fine for Aerotech, at least with the advanced 'fire at the movement path' rules. i.e. the aircraft doesn't drop a bomb that's either pathetic or too OP, it just fires a whole shitload of guns and drops some bombs, which are like any other gun. For some reason every Btech video game dev thinks an airstrike has to be like Vietnam instead. A.o.D. posted:Except when it is. BattleTech is odd in that it has one foot in hard realism and another foot in 80s-80sness and some 90s in the mix. It's got really pretty hard rules for space, then promptly decides a "long range" missile fires 650m and that people can store up to 99 pictures on their 3.5" floppy disks (I'm not kidding, I sadly have like every Btech field manual) as the latest technology. Honestly if I was in some dream world where I could make my own BattleTech game, what I'd do is go total Alien Isolation with making everything looks 70s/80s, and then when the Clans show up, they'd have like.. plasma screen TVs from the 2000s and look so much more high tech. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 21:33
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Affi posted:Simplifierad economy and easy salvage gives me an iffy feeling. I like it a bit harder and more complicated. I'm not sure what's so easy about the salvage - you have to negotiate for salvage rights (and they're not binary), salvaging mechs is harder than in any other battletech video game, your gear can get full-on destroyed (and apparently will be constantly) and even your mechs spend a long rear end time doing expensive repairs if you get them totalled. They were never going to have full on frankenmech building, because the art assets just don't work for it, so there's no point in tracking which arms and which legs you have.
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Feb 15, 2018 22:35
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Blazing Ownager posted:
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Feb 15, 2018 22:48
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Blazing Ownager posted:It will never not drive me nuts (and subsequently, be promptly modded out of my game) that my 'mechs can't see far enough to fire their short range guns without someone holding their hand. there've been some conflicting posts on this but I believe beta 2's shortened view distance from b1 was intentional for testing purposes and release will not be that short, though I don't think this is set in stone or anything, just that distances are longer in newer material. 
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Feb 15, 2018 22:55
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Blazing Ownager posted:Honestly if I was in some dream world where I could make my own BattleTech game, what I'd do is go total Alien Isolation with making everything looks 70s/80s, and then when the Clans show up, they'd have like.. plasma screen TVs from the 2000s and look so much more high tech. That's pretty much how I pictured it when I read the novels back in the day.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:14
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I pictured everything being that weird mid 90s doldrum where 80s tech was being replaced but with kind of incremental lovely solutions. Need to transport big* amounts of data? Get this Zip disk! Or burn it to a CDR! Powerpoint for everything! Here's a web page with a picture of dancing Jesus on it! So the Clans have better tech on paper, but it's all still kind of shamefully lovely.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:24
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Zaodai posted:I pictured everything being that weird mid 90s doldrum where 80s tech was being replaced but with kind of incremental lovely solutions. Need to transport big* amounts of data? Get this Zip disk! Or burn it to a CDR! Powerpoint for everything! Here's a web page with a picture of dancing Jesus on it! Every planet/company probably has their own adopted home grown operating systems, storage mediums etc. I know the planet Macintosh is a thing, owned by Apple, but you never really hear anything about what they are doing. Just that they own a planet.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:31
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Blazing Ownager posted:Also the big problem is how these people keep doing air strikes. They never make the air unit a full unit, like a 'mech, that makes full attacks, like a 'mech. That's what you have to do with it. It worked fine for Aerotech, at least with the advanced 'fire at the movement path' rules. I played that on the board some 25 years ago. If you simplify it you're guaranteed to keep getting shots from the rear, making air very powerful even with just the strafing rules, no bombs allowed. Or alternately you force everyone to duck and cover which is fun for maybe one game but kills the fun of mobile mech combat. And it's still too much of a "kill this" button because everyone can and will concentrate on the same target. If you play a separate board of Aerotech on the side, well, you have to play a separate board of Aerotech on the side. That game is bad, at least in its first edition. I don't know whether the rules have been made more sensible but there were all sorts of stupid design decisions which convinced me the game designers never actually played on their own rules. Like fuel: a light fighter has fuel for 30 seconds, then it's out and starts drifting helplessly. On the other hand if you never actually steer the light plane, it can carry several times as many bombs as a heavy bomber. Best bomb is the inferno bomb which is also the lightest bomb, you could easily stack somewhere around 40-60 of them on a light aircraft. 4-6 are enough to force a shutdown on anything because they forcibly cause 10 points of heat per bomb and it stacks. A near miss causes 5 points of heat and is the worst result you could get from the bombing table. And the distances: a plane can zip trivially from Earth to Moon and back in 10 seconds, even the slowest aircraft hit 2000 kph in atmosphere, but you can still only shoot at stuff within the same map sheet (ie. distances of 630 meters or less). Unless you're in space, where standard medium lasers reach out to 100,000 kilometers. You'd have to create an entire new air combat game for any of it to make any sense, just so you could get the strafing runs lined up organically instead of from the best direction/randomly. Probably not worth it, even if you had the resources of a large company.
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Feb 16, 2018 01:59
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Phrosphor posted:Every planet/company probably has their own adopted home grown operating systems, storage mediums etc. Dropships aren't compatible with it.
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Feb 16, 2018 02:07
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Hob_Gadling posted:I played that on the board some 25 years ago. 80% of this is no longer true. Fuel is practically impossible to run out of over the course of a single ground battle; bombing is limited by tonnage and reduces thrust significantly; external heat is capped at 15 per turn regardless of source; nothing in the game can move 720,000 km (the distance to and from the moon) in one turn (it'd take a turn to leave atmosphere, a turn at minimum at full burn to get there with the fastest fighter [20 hexes], a turn to turn around and kill velocity, two turns to get back because you don't want to overshoot, and a turn to get back into atmosphere; all of this assuming the fastest fighter in the game hauling rear end and with no regard for spinning out of control when you fail the +8 control roll for turning at that speed)
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Feb 16, 2018 02:15
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Decided tonight I'd name my mercenary company the Fortune Hunters after the signature Pirate Gang of another FASA great, Crimson Skies. Then I got bored and decided to make a Battletech version of their logo:  Not sure I'm completely satisfied with the Lovers card art, but it was a decent way to kill an evening. And AMechwarrior pointed out that being able to use custom logos is probably going to be a thing in the Single Player based on Beta, so that is cool!
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Feb 16, 2018 09:02
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Hi I just want to say I am still real hype for this game
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Feb 16, 2018 14:24
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They outright confirmed in the Q&A that modding custom emblems into the game is fully supported. I remember them not intending to allow that in the past but given the scaledown of the multiplayer they must have said sure, make it so.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:33
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Decided tonight I'd name my mercenary company the Fortune Hunters after the signature Pirate Gang of another FASA great, Crimson Skies. Then I got bored and decided to make a Battletech version of their logo: Those are really cool.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:48
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If your unit were strictly Wolf's Dragoons when it comes to mercs, the lovers card should just be a metal canister. 
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Feb 16, 2018 16:43
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I wonder how much stuff went out the window because of HG.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:53
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Blazing Ownager posted:Honestly if I was in some dream world where I could make my own BattleTech game, what I'd do is go total Alien Isolation with making everything looks 70s/80s, and then when the Clans show up, they'd have like.. plasma screen TVs from the 2000s and look so much more high tech. That's basically what happened. The Inner Sphere has holograms projected into tanks of a clear liquid medium. The Clans have holograms they can project into the air  Galaga Galaxian posted:Not sure I'm completely satisfied with the Lovers card art, but it was a decent way to kill an evening. And AMechwarrior pointed out that being able to use custom logos is probably going to be a thing in the Single Player based on Beta, so that is cool! It should absolutely be an Urbanmech in a blonde wig.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:07
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PoptartsNinja posted:
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Feb 16, 2018 18:43
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ditty bout my clitty posted:I wonder how much stuff went out the window because of HG. I doubt much. HG is narrowly about the designs of a handful of mechs. The warhammer and marauder are the two best known examples. I wish they were in but apparently this is on 
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Feb 16, 2018 19:07
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Sky Shadowing posted:They outright confirmed in the Q&A that modding custom emblems into the game is fully supported. How has the multiplayer been scaled down? 
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Feb 17, 2018 00:11
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vorebane posted:How has the multiplayer been scaled down? No matchmaker/rankings, no tournaments.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:12
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Q_res posted:No matchmaker/rankings, no tournaments. For release, they did say they haven't scapped it: Kickstarter update posted:With release in sight in the next few months, we want to tell you about a few features that were part of our Kickstarter Campaign, but need to be delivered post-launch in order to focus development and testing as we move towards release.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:20
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Ah, thanks. I'm glad I will in fact be able to punch robot goons still.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:26
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I don't know if the ladders, tournaments and such will come in. To be frank it's pretty obvious that they had a real tough time with netcode, as evidenced by the online part of the beta being delayed. For Solaris, my prediction is a DLC where you're running a Solaris stable instead of a merc outfit, and have to get one of your guys named Grand Champion.
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Feb 17, 2018 02:47
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Phrosphor posted:They want all these things in the game for sure. I think they have sat down and, led by Mitch who seems to be quite the realist, they have brutally cut everything that was holding them back from release. If the game does well I fully expect an add-on of some kind that brings a lot of this stuff back in. Also loans were cut because they were a self-contained system with enough engineering time attached to be a possible problem, and we're pretty much down to the bone for cuts at this point. so an entirely self-contained piece of code and ui? that was an easy call. the economy is still really loving complex -- complex enough that it's basically all I've been doing for the past two weeks, and probably will be all I'll be doing between now and launch. Salvage is also Not Easy: I've been trying to get this Wolverine WVR-6K built for days, but every place I look has only one part, and it's for a -6R. Because some rear end in a top hat (me) decided that a Kurita variant should be really uncommon in the rimward Periphery. So I'm stuck just taking missions and hoping I spot another one on the field so I can salvage it for the final bit I need.
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Feb 17, 2018 02:52
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Battletech at launch will be just the main menu with an exit button, with the way these cuts to content are being reported. :P
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Feb 17, 2018 02:55
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isildur posted:Salvage is also Not Easy: I've been trying to get this Wolverine WVR-6K built for days, but every place I look has only one part, and it's for a -6R. Because some rear end in a top hat (me) decided that a Kurita variant should be really uncommon in the rimward Periphery. So I'm stuck just taking missions and hoping I spot another one on the field so I can salvage it for the final bit I need. I just want to say, I appreciate logic like this. Even if I may hate it once I'm playing the game. [edit] Don't forget Steiner variants are probably similarly uncommon! 
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 03:04
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