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Madurai
Jun 26, 2012



Blistex posted:

I find that it's accurate enough to guess where the enemy tank is based on the hiding options in the spotted area. "You're behind that rock/shed/big bush".

They've only learned the first lesson in How Not To Be Seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-M2hs3sXGo

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DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

MAYBE IF MY WEAK NONSENSICAL "BURNS" ARE CONVOLUTED ENOUGH, NOBODY WILL NOTICE THAT IN SPITE OF BEING A CONDESCENDING TAINTSMEAR IN EVERY THREAD I POST IN, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY INSIGHTFUL OR FUNNY TO SAy.

I once spent several minutes "hiding" a grey hulled reserve tank in the open using only the shadow cast by a village house for cover while 2 planes were searching for me. Worked perfectly. Didn't hurt the tank looked like farm equipment anyway.

Then I eventually got bored & tried moving out. The movement itself gave away my position and I blew up seconds later.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




I've had people ignore me in the farmland in Fulda in the Type 60 ATM because I apparently looked like a tractor or some poo poo, in spite of having large rectangular missile launchers on the back. Sometimes people just learn to recognise things as "enemy tank" by the turret or gun barrel.

ArchRanger
Mar 19, 2007
I'm tired of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with 'em there.



Grimey Drawer

I've hidden the tier 1 French AA in the open before because it is literally a tractor. Dunno how it gets overlooked that there are people on it.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler


Grimey Drawer

DancingShade posted:

I once spent several minutes "hiding" a grey hulled reserve tank in the open using only the shadow cast by a village house for cover while 2 planes were searching for me. Worked perfectly. Didn't hurt the tank looked like farm equipment anyway.

Then I eventually got bored & tried moving out. The movement itself gave away my position and I blew up seconds later.

Back when you could make decals massive, I'd cover my tanks with the all black ones and they'd look like burned out hulls. Really effective in Berlin and other maps where they are common.

Subyng
May 4, 2013


Man what's frustrating about planes is how much you're hosed if your opponent is simply in a better plane. With tanks you can overcome being in a worse vehicle by flanking, positioning, etc but planes seem much less forgiving in that regard.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


Yeah, a lot of planes is taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes. (This is basically every AdamTheEnginerd video.) If you're in a worse plane than your opponent's, your mistakes will be much easier to exploit and your opponent's that much harder.

But flanking and positioning still apply in planes! Getting an energy advantage (by climbing) and knowing when to engage serve the same purpose in plane matches -- but they're more abstract and harder to learn, in my opinion.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




That is funny because there's a lot more cases in tank battles where the weaker tank is just hosed; you can flank, yeah, but that's a luxury you might not get, and a guy in a KV-1 or a Ferdinand facing an opponent with an inadequate gun has a tremendous advantage on the basis of their vehicle. In a dogfight between unequal planes however, the pilot of the better plane has to constantly work to earn the advantages that their plane affords them, and the pilot of the weaker one is in a constant state of having the potential to outplay their opponent.

Shanakin
Mar 26, 2010

The whole point of stats are lost if you keep it a secret. Why Didn't you tell the world eh?


Huh. Weird, maybe I'm just too much of a cyberace instead of tanker but I often feel the opposite. An inferior plane often still has a lot of options to attempt a reversal or with proper planning dictate the engagement. That and it's not very common that aircraft massively outclass each other.

Tanks on the other hand can often have some pretty massive capability gaps and you are much more reliant on terrain being favourable.

To be honest though, in most cases the winner is the one who gets guns on target first regardless of vehicle type.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


I think there's a few specific cases where an aircraft is too under-gunned to do much damage -- some of the early British and French planes have .303s against planes that too much armor for those guns to do anything useful, for example. But even then, once you have the drop on someone, enough bullets will eventually get the job done.

Malefitz
Jun 19, 2018



Yesterday I was put into a 4.7 Match with my Tiger H1 for the first time. Usually I have to face 5.7 or 6.3 opponents but not this time.

Boy did I feel bad for the pubbies that tried to get through my armor while one-shotting everyone by just pointing the barrel in their general direction.

It was fun though

hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002

FREE HONG KONG


Upset Trowel

Ya with planes its different from tanks, two unevenly matched planes just fly differently, with tanks one tank is incapable of injuring the other one with its weapons.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler


Grimey Drawer

When the IS-3 first hit the scene it was carnage. Those poor Shermans and Pz IVs.

Solumin posted:

I think there's a few specific cases where an aircraft is too under-gunned to do much damage -- some of the early British and French planes have .303s against planes that too much armor for those guns to do anything useful, for example. But even then, once you have the drop on someone, enough bullets will eventually get the job done.

.303s are not ideal for taking down an IL-2. I've learned that the hard way.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


Blistex posted:

When the IS-3 first hit the scene it was carnage. Those poor Shermans and Pz IVs.


.303s are not ideal for taking down an IL-2. I've learned that the hard way.

That is exactly the matchup I was thinking about. That plane is a tank.

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006



Having trouble fitting the T-34-57 into a lineup since there isn't really anything else at 4.7. Maybe as a backup on 5.3?

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

I think the difference is that with tanks you can always choose to fight in the bit of the map that you think will accentuate your vehicle's advantages - hull down long sight lines for big guns, urban ruins for fast movers with good turret traverse, etc etc.

In the sky it's more a case of 'person with the best climber has the advantage in all circumstances, everyone else needs to try to bait them into a mistake'.

e: I'll add the difference between a good ground map and a bad ground map is always whether or not these options actually exist, or whether you are playing Sands of Siani or something and it's just 'biggest gun wins'.

Subyng
May 4, 2013


hakimashou posted:

Ya with planes its different from tanks, two unevenly matched planes just fly differently, with tanks one tank is incapable of injuring the other one with its weapons.

That's not true though, at least for low-midtier you'll never get a matchup where one tank is incapable of injuring the other.

Everything that's been said about planes also applies to tanks. Whoever said you have to "rely" on terrain in tanks has the right idea, except you're not relying on it, you're leveraging it. I feel like terrain allows you to actively negate an enemy's advantages rather than just waiting for them to make a mistake, while it's much harder to do this in planes. The only part of the map you can leverage in planes is airfield AAA.

If you're in a faster plane you could just outrun and outclimb your opponent forever. For the slower plane no alternative way you can climb any faster to get above your opponent. There's no analogous situation in tanks where you can completely dictate the terms of the engagement. Even if you're in a tank with impenetrable frontal armour, theres no place in any map where you can sit and not be flanked from somewhere.

Subyng fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Oct 25, 2020

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

MAYBE IF MY WEAK NONSENSICAL "BURNS" ARE CONVOLUTED ENOUGH, NOBODY WILL NOTICE THAT IN SPITE OF BEING A CONDESCENDING TAINTSMEAR IN EVERY THREAD I POST IN, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY INSIGHTFUL OR FUNNY TO SAy.

Your biplane is never going to shoot down a mig and your reserve tank is never going to even scratch an abrahms.

Now make up and kiss.

Warbadger
Jun 17, 2006


DancingShade posted:

Your biplane is never going to shoot down a mig and your reserve tank is never going to even scratch an abrahms.

Now make up and kiss.

I used the M24 for quite a while in 10.0 battles to spot targets and kill the light armored stuff while grinding the Bradley. There's a surprising number of vehicles out there with basically no armor these days, and the Abrams is actually kinda vulnerable to this at close range with the exposed turret ring (most MBTs admittedly aren't).

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




Anniversary sale is up.

https://warthunder.com/en/news/6907...-war-thunder-en

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


There's a lot going on there! Notably the Maus will be available to research and the submarine event is back.

Malefitz
Jun 19, 2018



I'm glad I managed to get a few unlocks before the sale.



Any suggestions on which of these vehicles to talisman? Please note that I also have unlocked the Panther A, it just doesn't show in the screenshot.

I'm currently using the Tiger H1 and Panzer IV/70(V). My plan was to upgrade to Tiger E and Panther A as a 5.7 line up and eventually unlock the Nashorn and/or Waffenträger to complement it.
I love the Tiger H1 so I have high hopes for the Tiger E but I'm not sure how well it actually will perform as I might get uptiered to 6.7 a lot and I assume it will just not be able to do much in this this BR as the gun is still the same as the Tiger H1's.
I'm also very intrigued by the Panther A as I always enjoyed the Panzer IV line but I have never played a Panther before (as I skipped the Panther D due to it's crappy turret traverse).

Talismaning the Panther A might be the better idea though overall as it is rank IV as opposed to Tiger E's rank III and when I eventually upgrade to the Tiger II (P) and Jagdpanther my asumption is that the Panther A is still somewhat usable at these BR's (as opposed to the Tiger E).

Also, do you guys have a recommendation for a German premium vehicle to complement my planned 5.7 and 6.3 line ups? I'm not sure if the Pz.Bef.Wg.VI P, the VFK or the Vfw. Jagdpanther are actually worth it...

Nfcknblvbl
Jul 15, 2002



Is the Ru 251 going on sale? I suggest you spring for that.

I know you haven't researched it yet but my talisman suggestion is the Jagdpanther. Can't go wrong with the long 88 at 6.3, and it's sloped armor bounces a lot of shots.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


I prefer Panthers over Tigers, so the Panther A would be my choice of talisman.

The Tiger E will be fine at 6.7, the long 88 still does work.

Forget 5.7 and 6.3, buy the Ru 251 for that sweet 6.7 supremacy. Here's Bo Time reviewing the other premiums you asked about : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kaJY1Y-S_I#t=2944s

Nfcknblvbl
Jul 15, 2002



Defend the D point

Dunite
Oct 12, 2013


Are any packs going to be on sale, like the rooikat 105?

Dunite fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Oct 26, 2020

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


They'll go on sale starting November 2.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004




8 years of hate playing this game.

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*




I have 3000 golden eagles left over from who knows what.

Is the Centurion Action X any good?

Malefitz
Jun 19, 2018



Nfcknblvbl posted:

Is the Ru 251 going on sale? I suggest you spring for that.

Solumin posted:

Forget 5.7 and 6.3, buy the Ru 251 for that sweet 6.7 supremacy.

The Ru 251 does sound like a lot of fun. I tried it out in test range and I like cruising around in a fast tank. I'll definitely consider it.
I hate that you can only use the stock version of a vehicle in the test range. I think most vehicles suck in their stock versions. Why Gaijin don't let you test a vehicle fully modded before purchase is beyond me.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012




The Ru-251 is one of the best premiums available, and possibly one of the best vehicles in the game period.

It's absurdly fast for its tier, has great climbing abilities allowing it to get to some real absurd sniping spots, and packs 320mm HEAT-FS allowing it to penetrate literally anything it can face. It's basically a baby Leopard at a whole 1.0 BR lower.

The only downside is you're really vulnerable to plane .50 cals and you get revenge CAS'd like, a lot.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


Malefitz posted:

The Ru 251 does sound like a lot of fun. I tried it out in test range and I like cruising around in a fast tank. I'll definitely consider it.
I hate that you can only use the stock version of a vehicle in the test range. I think most vehicles suck in their stock versions. Why Gaijin don't let you test a vehicle fully modded before purchase is beyond me.



You can! I think, anyway. "Reference" is spaded, "Current" is whatever modules you have unlocked now or stock if you don't have it.

To reiterate, the Ru 251 is one of the best premiums Germany has, period. Get it, if you want to have fun at 6.7. It's shame you don't have the first Leo, that's a great talisman choice too.

Dunite
Oct 12, 2013


Literally only play the ru 251 anymore.

Some issues with spaced armor with the heat since the shell rework, but still haven't found a better tank.

Malefitz
Jun 19, 2018



Solumin posted:

You can! I think, anyway. "Reference" is spaded, "Current" is whatever modules you have unlocked now or stock if you don't have it.

You sure about that? Still can't change the ammo to unlockable types, can you?

And yes, you guys have convinced me that I will get the Ru 251

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Test drive works a bit differently with premiums IIRC because everything is unlocked by default.

Dunite posted:

Literally only play the ru 251 anymore.

Some issues with spaced armor with the heat since the shell rework, but still haven't found a better tank.

The Abrams or Leo 2K in their prime were like a 251 with all the weaknesses removed and some added benefits but both are well out of their prime. The 2A5/2A6 prob come close but 10.7 is a much different beast to the original 10.0 or 9.7 or whatever that was

Mazz fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Oct 26, 2020

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

MAYBE IF MY WEAK NONSENSICAL "BURNS" ARE CONVOLUTED ENOUGH, NOBODY WILL NOTICE THAT IN SPITE OF BEING A CONDESCENDING TAINTSMEAR IN EVERY THREAD I POST IN, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY INSIGHTFUL OR FUNNY TO SAy.

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

The Ru-251 is one of the best premiums available, and possibly one of the best vehicles in the game period.

It's absurdly fast for its tier, has great climbing abilities allowing it to get to some real absurd sniping spots, and packs 320mm HEAT-FS allowing it to penetrate literally anything it can face. It's basically a baby Leopard at a whole 1.0 BR lower.

The only downside is you're really vulnerable to plane .50 cals and you get revenge CAS'd like, a lot.

Sounds like the big brother of the Pz.Sfl.Ic in the scout pack. A fun little thing with a canvas roof.

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*




Any thoughts on the Somua SM or the T-29? They'll be 50% off in a few days and 25€ for a fun good tank sounds like a pretty decent deal.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

There's only one prescription for Nazism and it's 76mm HVAP





Ultra Carp

T-29 is great. Good mobility, nigh-impenetrable turret, large crew, and a fantastic gun all make for an extremely strong tank that's very fun to play.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


Der Shovel posted:

I have 3000 golden eagles left over from who knows what.

Is the Centurion Action X any good?

It's not too bad from what I've heard, but I'd rather use the Strv 81.

Der Shovel posted:

Any thoughts on the Somua SM or the T-29? They'll be 50% off in a few days and 25€ for a fun good tank sounds like a pretty decent deal.

I've heard good things about the Somua, especially since it has the same cannon as the Lorraine. I'm planning to get it when France goes on sale myself.

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Solumin
Jan 11, 2013


I just realized all the packs are going on sale after the in-game premiums do, so you can't spend the GE from packs to buy cheap premiums. Gaijin does it again!

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