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Flowers For Algeria posted:The day you become a machine, I'll hack you and inject you with some intelligence so that you realize what a loving terrible decision you made. Way to be bigoted against our synthetic friends. 
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May 28, 2017 23:18
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Way to be bigoted against our synthetic friends. Hey they'll live forever. What's a few decades of servitude? They'll thank me in time and they'll treasure the memories of hard toil and stuff because eternal life will probably be boring
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May 28, 2017 23:20
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You're going to die, and you need to come to terms with that.
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May 28, 2017 23:35
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Who What Now posted:You're going to die, and you need to come to terms with that.
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May 28, 2017 23:39
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Even if you become an indestructible computer and ditch the solar system before the sun goes red giant the universe will eventually run out of energy. Anything you could use to feed your consciousness will be lost to entropy. Chaos reigns and you will die.
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May 28, 2017 23:56
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Your body rejecting implants is a series of 1s and zeroes lik evrrutbing else. It can be shut off. Sorry kids neuro implants and mechanical ones alike are the wave of the future.
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May 29, 2017 00:29
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:Even if you become an indestructible computer and ditch the solar system before the sun goes red giant the universe will eventually run out of energy. Anything you could use to feed your consciousness will be lost to entropy. Chaos reigns and you will die. bro, that's completely fine as long as I don't die a loving stupid murderous ape.
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May 29, 2017 00:30
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Who What Now posted:You're going to die, and you need to come to terms with that.
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May 29, 2017 00:32
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"This is the thing that will ensure my legacy forever!!" --some dude, uh, whatshisname? its on the tip of my tongue i swear
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May 29, 2017 00:33
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Okay I am relentlessly pro-thread and anti-megathread and some of my favorite IRL conversations of all time occurred after we decided there was no point leaving a half-empty bottle of scotch just sitting around doing nothing and this forum was much better when it was more open, so my serious response is: I contend that although we live in an era of more and more accurate information than ever, in which it is more rapid and efficient acquire such, and in a period of relative peace--perhaps already gone, but still peace--such as the world has never known and we have observed over the last several decades a trend toward such sectarian, tribal, and mean social organization that the problem lays specifically within that technology, or at most generous its implementation. We are more advanced than at any point in history and the overwhelming majority of our species' collective effort is spent hitting the multiply key on a calculator in a bank, designing or deploying weapons, making superhero movies, and arguing on social media when we are not adding to its background radiation. If technology is so good why is poo poo so goddamn dumb today? Transhumanism's only answer to this is: well clearly we don't have enough technology. I contend that altering the flesh (which is concrete) and not the consciousness (which is already plastic without the need for technological intervention) is creating a lot of new problems addressing a problem that does not actually exist in any real form.
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May 29, 2017 00:50
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Or in other words, making us into machines wont make us better, in the same way that owning a cell phone doesn't make me a better person.
Peachfart fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 00:54
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Willie Tomg posted:the consciousness (which is already plastic without the need for technological intervention) LOL transhumanism is a load of bull. post-humanism will happen though
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May 29, 2017 00:57
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Mercrom posted:LOL remember the day we all wept together over the bowling green massacre? or the thousands of american muslims celebrating 9-11? or that one thing hillary clinton did to really inspire you? consciousness is a drop of water on a hot griddle. it's getting the drat thing to settle down for a minute that's actually the hard part!
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May 29, 2017 01:09
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People thinking our issues will be solved by technology/turning into machines are just avoiding real issues in favor of pretend future solutions.
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May 29, 2017 01:12
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Willie Tomg posted:remember the day we all wept together over the bowling green massacre? or the thousands of american muslims celebrating 9-11? or that one thing hillary clinton did to really inspire you? not sure how this helps us convince the machines to keep us as pets instead of burning us with the rest of the fossil fuels
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May 29, 2017 01:17
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It might be a good idea to wait until we have the vaguest clue how this technology would function before trying to discuss it's implications
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May 29, 2017 02:16
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Death is bad, ergo you want to live as long as possible. Even if death is inevitable, you should prefer a million years of living over 100. That's why machine augmentation is good.
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May 29, 2017 02:27
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Also transfer =/= copy. If you transfer to a robot, then that's you, the real you, not a copy. The trick is that transferring will be very difficult. But it's in principle possible: neurons aren't active all the time. If, when one of your neurons is inactive, I replace that neuron with a robot one, and keep everything else the same (rerouting signals etc), you shouldn't notice. Repeat for all.
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May 29, 2017 02:31
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rudatron posted:Also transfer =/= copy. If you transfer to a robot, then that's you, the real you, not a copy. Prove it.
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May 29, 2017 02:34
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Transfer vs copy is missing the point I think. As mentioned upthread you would need a conversion process that switches out biological hardware for synthetic stuff in order to maintain a continuity of consciousness.
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May 29, 2017 02:36
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rudatron posted:Death is bad, Wow, I think this is the most wrong you've ever been.
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May 29, 2017 02:39
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Its a nice idea but the problem is that we are entering a stagnate period of little to no technological growth. Look at the year 1900 and compare it to 1950: there were HUGE changes that effected almost every part of life. Widespread electricity, automobiles, telephones, radio, vaccines, x-rays, antibiotics, aeroplanes, television, nuclear energy, and more. Now compare 1950 to 2000: there were also big changes but they werent as big, were they? Computers, cell phones, the internet, cg visual effects for movies, video games, umm...what else? That's about it. Very cool stuff that changed businesses, but not nearly as world-changing as the stuff that happened between 1900 and 1950. Now look at whats happened since 2000. Yeah its only been 17 years, but still: we have slightly better video game graphics, slightly better cg visual effects in movies, the internet is more widespread, cellphones come with some extra features, and...yeah. Now look at the fact that Moores Law is slowing down if not stopping. All the advancements in computers and graphics and communication technology was due to Moores Law, and now that's over. The rapid progress that we saw in computers in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s, which made up the majority of any technological progress at all in those decades, is now over. Computers of the 2020s, 2030s, and 2040s will be only slightly better than todays. Cell phones arent getting any better. Virtual reality is going to fail, big time. Augmented reality is going to fail. All that crap about bioprinting organs, stem cells, etc. is all crap. Driverless cars are decades and decades away. What else is there? Dont expect anything cool over the next few decades.
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May 29, 2017 02:41
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May 29, 2017 02:45
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Peachfart posted:Prove it.
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May 29, 2017 02:46
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First we inject you with a thing that kills the part of your brain that insists conscious continuity (or better yet, self-consciousness in general) is something important. Then we make any number of far more useful copies of you.
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May 29, 2017 02:49
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Kerning Chameleon posted:The one thing no Transhumanist can bring themselves to admit no matter what: they are going to loving die someday and nothing can stop that. You mean the thread by the person who has been completely wrong about everything and yet is inexplicably taken seriously by this subforum? That Decoding Authoritarians topic?
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May 29, 2017 02:51
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Mercrom posted:not sure how this helps us convince the machines to keep us as pets instead of burning us with the rest of the fossil fuels I thought you were objecting to the notion of consciousness as plastic. Well, for starters, living creatures make terrible fuel when burnt. Peachfart posted:Prove it. NOW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE
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May 29, 2017 02:55
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These discussions are always very tedious because they tend to become ludicrously speculative extremely quickly with little to no connection to what real life scientists have to say. I mean we're already talking about the feasibility of replacing human brain cells with immortal robo-cells as if that's no big thing, but nobody has posted any links to what the science offers on this issue or references to anything other than the Matrix that suggests this is something that we could actually do. It reminds me of the way nerds talk about faster than light travel, clearly and overtly influenced by the fiction that they've absorbed rather than a great understanding of real life physics, combined with a naive optimism that massively downplays the hard physical challenges that exist which mostly get papered over with the clunky arguments like 'look at what we've achieved in 100 years, imagine a civilization with a million years!' as if any problems can be overcome with simple time and effort.
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May 29, 2017 02:57
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Peachfart posted:People thinking our issues will be solved by technology/turning into machines are just avoiding real issues in favor of pretend future solutions. Technology has solved a lot of issues, though.
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May 29, 2017 02:57
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Kerning Chameleon posted:The telomere shortening problem is in the brain too, and dementia and Alzheimer's are definitely things that happen. If Henrietta Lacks can live forever, so can I.
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May 29, 2017 03:05
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Blue Star posted:Now look at whats happened since 2000. Yeah its only been 17 years, but still: we have slightly better video game graphics, slightly better cg visual effects in movies, the internet is more widespread, cellphones come with some extra features, and...yeah. Now look at the fact that Moores Law is slowing down if not stopping. All the advancements in computers and graphics and communication technology was due to Moores Law, and now that's over. The rapid progress that we saw in computers in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s, which made up the majority of any technological progress at all in those decades, is now over. Computers of the 2020s, 2030s, and 2040s will be only slightly better than todays. Cell phones arent getting any better. Virtual reality is going to fail, big time. Augmented reality is going to fail. All that crap about bioprinting organs, stem cells, etc. is all crap. Driverless cars are decades and decades away. What else is there? Eat poo poo and die lonely, my dude! Here is an utterly noncomprehensive list of things that have happened since specifically the year 2000 to today from a completely amerocentric perspective: --Most every person of economic significance in the industrialized world carries a device constantly broadcasting their GPS location, and voluntarily posts their personal data and activities to the internet. --Vast tranches of servers owned by many national intelligence agencies collect all of this data, redundantly. Including this post here. HELLO, FRIENDS!!! --Terrorist groups are using drones in active warzones to deploy attacks and film the consequences and use the internet to disseminate propaganda re: the consequences --The Iraq War has one of the lowest killed rates in american history largely because of advances in medicine not conceivable 30 years ago --A black guy named Barack Hussein Obama circumvented the entire party apparatus to raise unprecedented amounts of money on the internet to defeat a vietnam war POW in a general election. --4chan, potentially as a front for the Russians, got Donald Trump elected to succeed that president for the lulz Like, if you're a literal child, okay. Okay, I get that you're in the young'ns nihilist phase. But centuries come and go without historical periods like the one we're in right now. And your response to it all is to say "oh yeah all this amazing unprecendented poo poo that happened in the last few months? yeah, no big deal" I'm a fuckin' skeptic to the transhumanist argument, and your nonsense is so weak you're talking me into it. Do better.
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May 29, 2017 03:11
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rudatron posted:I did a little thought experiment after that section you quoted. So, like I said, its possible in principle. Practically, it's probably very difficult. Your thought experiment only works if a synthetic synapse is indistinguishable in every way from a natural one.
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May 29, 2017 03:15
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khwarezm posted:These discussions are always very tedious because they tend to become ludicrously speculative extremely quickly with little to no connection to what real life scientists have to say. We're all on the internet right now. Post what real life scientists have to say. I bet it's really loving cool, and I bet they said it on the internet!!
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May 29, 2017 03:15
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Willie Tomg posted:We're all on the internet right now. Post what real life scientists have to say. I bet it's really loving cool, and I bet they said it on the internet!! I'll leave that to people in the thread ostensibly interested in these ideas. Hopefully they can keep it grounded and scientific, but I haven't much of that so far.
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May 29, 2017 03:50
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khwarezm posted:I'll leave that to people in the thread ostensibly interested in these ideas. Hopefully they can keep it grounded and scientific, but I haven't much of that so far. Then why did you even post at all? Coward.
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May 29, 2017 03:53
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:Even if you become an indestructible computer and ditch the solar system before the sun goes red giant the universe will eventually run out of energy. Anything you could use to feed your consciousness will be lost to entropy. Chaos reigns and you will die. We've watched while the stars burned out, and creation played in reverse. The universe freezing in half light. Once I thought to escape. To end the end a master, step out of the path of collapse. Escape would make us god.
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May 29, 2017 03:58
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humans cannot transcend their animal nature. whatever we create that does will not be human. there's no we about it, once you create a completely different organism or system to be better than humans there's no reason to have it replicate human behaviors or simulate human existenceBlue Star posted:Its a nice idea but the problem is that we are entering a stagnate period of little to no technological growth. Look at the year 1900 and compare it to 1950: there were HUGE changes that effected almost every part of life. people of that time didn't grasp the societal consequences of technologies as they happened. a 40 year old man in 1920 saw that radio was neat and cool and all but he didn't necessariy understand how it would change society. we can only view these things in retrospect much like how we discuss antibiotics and automobiles in the same reverent tones that adults of the early 1900s would discuss mechanical harvesters and steam power as transformative technologies. the massive innovations of tomorrow, which are happening today, are not necessarily visible to you until it happens. easier genetic engineering has huge potential
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May 29, 2017 03:58
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rudatron posted:I did a little thought experiment after that section you quoted. So, like I said, its possible in principle. Practically, it's probably very difficult. No, you said we can 'replace inactive neurons with robot ones'. All the logistical difficulties aside(and holy poo poo there are a lot), what makes you think that you can introduce synthetic neurons into a brain and still have you be you? Some NFL players have gotten concussions(bruising on existing brain tissue) that radically changes their personalities and you want to 'replace inactive neurons'. People aren't literal machines, you can't just swap out a hard drive in the array and not have it change who you are.
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May 29, 2017 04:00
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Peachfart posted:No, you said we can 'replace inactive neurons with robot ones'. All the logistical difficulties aside(and holy poo poo there are a lot), what makes you think that you can introduce synthetic neurons into a brain and still have you be you? not to mention that if you can selectively replace neurons with artificial replacements then you can custom tailor a human brain to create a bespoke personality with the kind of attributes you want in society rather than simply prolonging some dickhead
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May 29, 2017 04:04
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boner confessor posted:not to mention that if you can selectively replace neurons with artificial replacements then you can custom tailor a human brain to create a bespoke personality with the kind of attributes you want in society rather than simply prolonging some dickhead And at that point we are creating new life. Not extending old life. 'You' would be gone.
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May 29, 2017 04:06
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