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Super Jay Mann posted:Even if the idea is to provide a challenging experience, this game makes the fatal mistake of trying to punish the player for not playing the game the way it wants to be played, when what it SHOULD be doing is rewarding the player for playing the way it wants to be played instead. Getting Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume vibe. Which incidentally would be cool.
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Jul 31, 2017 03:29
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Omnicrom posted:Getting Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume vibe. Which incidentally would be cool. I get more of a Dissidia 012 story mode vibe where in order to get tokens for the special moogle shop you have to be at a certain level or below.
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Jul 31, 2017 03:35
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I was honestly thinking something like Pokemon: Subsistence where you had to use whatever you can scrape up to overcome challenges. But of course level caps would be stupid af
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Jul 31, 2017 06:26
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SSNeoman posted:I was honestly thinking something like Pokemon: Subsistence where you had to use whatever you can scrape up to overcome challenges. But of course level caps would be stupid af I don't think there's any way to make level caps not-stupid without setting them so high they're basically meaningless. Or in the case of the real games, so high & so toothless that they're only there to make it slightly more annoying to sweep with a Pokebanked Lv100 Mewtwo.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:04
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Randalor posted:But then the game wouldn't be "challenging"! What are you, some kind of scrub newbie who needs decent pokemon to stand a chance against custom-built teams that have extra bullshit mechanics added in to support them? Just be happy the creator didn't give you a luvdisc as your starting pokemon! I am still in shock that, with how steadfast the game is in refusing to let you have anything good, that you can still get Speed Boost Torchic/Protean Froakie/Contrary Snivy at the start of the game. Are actually good Pokemon outside of the starters just plain non-existent?
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Jul 31, 2017 07:30
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I think the starters thing was just someone going "we should have ALL the starters so we can prove we're better" while someone else thought that Hidden Abilities should be less annoying to get, or somehow couldn't make them even worse to get than normal. From what I'm hearing in this thread though, it sounds like any remotely good pokemon that were near the beginning were patched out because they ruined ~their vision~ of challenge. EDIT: This actually reminds me of a similar situation from a licensed game I saw streamed recently, which was Yu-Gi-Oh: Duelist of the Roses, the strange PS2 strategy game. You're given one of several crappy starter decks that sort of have a theme maybe, and have to go against actual themed decks who usually have just plain better cards than you, while also fighting on terrain that's advantageous to them and could possibly weaken you. And even if you use a field card to make beneficial terrain, the enemy has no compulsion to come fight you on that terrain. DemonTrigger fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 11:34
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DemonTrigger posted:I think the starters thing was just someone going "we should have ALL the starters so we can prove we're better" while someone else thought that Hidden Abilities should be less annoying to get, or somehow couldn't make them even worse to get than normal. From what I'm hearing in this thread though, it sounds like any remotely good pokemon that were near the beginning were patched out because they ruined ~their vision~ of challenge. DOTR is pretty fun though and usually the starting enemy decks are both super weak, and the main thing. Nothing stops you from just skipping fighting cards you cannot beat and punching them in the Deck Master. And Reborn would be a helluva lot better if you could skip a fight by getting the gym leader in a headlock and giving them a noogie till they cry uncle.
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Jul 31, 2017 13:58
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DemonTrigger posted:EDIT: This actually reminds me of a similar situation from a licensed game I saw streamed recently, which was Yu-Gi-Oh: Duelist of the Roses, the strange PS2 strategy game. You're given one of several crappy starter decks that sort of have a theme maybe, and have to go against actual themed decks who usually have just plain better cards than you, while also fighting on terrain that's advantageous to them and could possibly weaken you. And even if you use a field card to make beneficial terrain, the enemy has no compulsion to come fight you on that terrain. At risk of getting  about a goddamn Yugioh licensed game, the game gives you several tools to deal with those cards, be it equips, Fusion, or just taking advantage of the strategy elements to avoid them. It also, to keep it vaguely on-topic by making a direct contrast to Reborn, gives you ways to get better cards, rather than going out of its way to deny you anything powerful.
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Jul 31, 2017 14:04
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AlphaKretin posted:
TieTuesday did a blind stream where he played around 4 matches before deciding the game is unfair, incomprehensible garbage. It's a couple hours of quality entertainment, though.
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Jul 31, 2017 14:21
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CaptianKatsura posted:TieTuesday did a blind stream where he played around 4 matches before deciding the game is unfair, incomprehensible garbage. It's a couple hours of quality entertainment, though. I think I got to one of the last matches before getting stonewalled by a really tough opponent when I was a kid. There's definitely a system there, somewhere. But its mechanics are arcane and Japanese. So it probably is incomprehensible garbage, but one that's probably really exploitable because its arcane mechanics probably have shortcuts to OP poo poo. I'd have to look at that stream and try and remember what I did to see how he hosed up or how I tripped into victory.
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Jul 31, 2017 14:40
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Xelkelvos posted:I think I got to one of the last matches before getting stonewalled by a really tough opponent when I was a kid. The game does have a system where you can enter codes from real cards to get them in game, that's probably what most kids used. But to get back to Reborn, I still can't believe someone would actually a game this spiteful. Have the creators ever said anything about this? Ya know, besides "We wanted to make the game hard!" or "If you're having problems, you just suck  " Because there's no way a game could hate its players this much without hating the player being an intentional decision.
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Jul 31, 2017 14:47
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Xelkelvos posted:I think I got to one of the last matches before getting stonewalled by a really tough opponent when I was a kid. I mean 11 year old me didn't struggle with the game, there are some tough fights, but I never struggled and I never used the card-code system. Sounds like Tie's just bad.
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Jul 31, 2017 14:53
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Onmi posted:DOTR is pretty fun though and usually the starting enemy decks are both super weak, and the main thing. Weevil is ridiculously hard for a first fight. Luckily Kaiba's route is far more lenient.
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Jul 31, 2017 15:15
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Haifisch posted:Playing without a functionally limitless supply of healing items does make the game a lot harder(for Pokemon values of hard), so I could see that. I meant more like you're provided the mons people tend to ignore, like Hoppip and whatnot. So you need to figure out strategies on how to make the most out of them. And if you can't do that, then at least you can powerlevel until you can crush the competition with pure numbers. Then when you later get your Metagross or whatever it'll be even more rewarding. Though uh, I sorta haven't touched a pokemon game since Pearl and I never paid attention to the competitive scene so I dunno how easy/hard that would be. 'Course step 1 for a game like that is to not have poo poo like that Tangrowth.
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Jul 31, 2017 15:23
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SSNeoman posted:I meant more like you're provided the mons people tend to ignore, like Hoppip and whatnot. So you need to figure out strategies on how to make the most out of them. And if you can't do that, then at least you can powerlevel until you can crush the competition with pure numbers. Then when you later get your Metagross or whatever it'll be even more rewarding. The first bit does sound interesting, but from the looks of it, this game did just that, and when people actually did make the most out of these mons, the devs changed them to (even) worse ones. The competitive scene is a whole other game imo, stuff that would be subpar in the single-player game get to shine (Stealth Rock etc), there are no items, no powerlevelling etc. And trying to balance a game like that around competitive scene situations would make for a clusterfuck, with all the hidden information and player unpredictability that would exist (both in terms of movesets/items, and in the player's actions in the fight itself)
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Jul 31, 2017 15:43
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Duelist of the Roses is a game with a really weird difficulty curve. Matches are either incredibly tough and unfair or pushovers basically. There are so many cards in that game that just make the difficulty roll over and die, but if you don't have them you're in a bad way.
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Jul 31, 2017 16:06
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Onmi posted:I mean 11 year old me didn't struggle with the game, there are some tough fights, but I never struggled and I never used the card-code system. Sounds like Tie's just bad. I'm going to have to agree, it sounds like Tie's just really bad, because while I remember some fights being rough as I never had the cards, but yeah - the only way the game would seem completely unfair is if he never read the manual or go through the tutorial, because I admit if you just go in the game blind and expect it to play like a normal YGO game, it will be rough. Like compare to some of the other YGO games, it's really not that unfair. Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 17:53
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Robindaybird posted:I'm going to have to agree, it sounds like Tie's just really bad, because while I remember some fights being rough as I never had the cards, but yeah - the only way the game would seem completely unfair is if he never read the manual or go through the tutorial, because I admit if you just go in the game blind and expect it to play like a normal YGO game, it will be rough. I haven't seen Tie's, but to give him at least the benefit of the doubt if people like Weevil get a lucky draw (Cocoon of Evolution and Larva Moth in the opening hand for instance) it's possible you're just screwed no matter your starting deck. However there are also a lot of starting hands for the CPU players that are just them spewing garbage or making very bad gameplay decisions. Actual outright stonewalling for a couple of hours does sound like player error though.
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Jul 31, 2017 18:37
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Tie just had the bad luck trying the upper path after weevil, instead of doing the lower path. In addition to not knowing the fusions of his deck.
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Aug 1, 2017 03:53
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The gently caress is with the dialogue in this game. I don't mean the grimdark stuff, I'm talking about the slang. Its like they're mixing ebonics with 50's, 80's and 90's era talk. I haven't caught up yet but I'm expecting to see "daang homie, that 'mon is the cat's meow ya know what I'm saying diggity dog?"
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Aug 1, 2017 05:29
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Leal posted:The gently caress is with the dialogue in this game. I don't mean the grimdark stuff, I'm talking about the slang. Its like they're mixing ebonics with 50's, 80's and 90's era talk. I haven't caught up yet but I'm expecting to see "daang homie, that 'mon is the cat's meow ya know what I'm saying diggity dog?" They're teenagers. Not the characters, the writers.
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Aug 1, 2017 06:03
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Onmi posted:They're teenagers. Not the characters, the writers.
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Aug 1, 2017 09:23
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Omnicrom posted:Duelist of the Roses is a game with a really weird difficulty curve. Matches are either incredibly tough and unfair or pushovers basically. There are so many cards in that game that just make the difficulty roll over and die, but if you don't have them you're in a bad way. The unfairness of Yugioh games is kind of intrinsic to it, which means some games can either push some people away or punch them to the floor and bash their teeth in (basically all the GBA games, but the second one the most). The Luck factor can also make even easy games feel unfair. Which makes Reborn even worse, cause Yugioh is all about fixing your deck so it can be as consistent as possible while giving you difficult opponents. Reborn will just cheat because it can and calls it difficulty because it's not their fault we can't beat their challenges it's ours, who cares if we don't have the tools to work with or have to hope RNG is on our side just to stand a chance? Assholes Also the Duelist of the Roses Soundtrack is Amazing raisamike3 fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 01:08
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I like our rivals. I mean, they aren't super annoying or anything.
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Aug 7, 2017 13:13
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Terrains should have like three effects tops.
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Sep 7, 2017 19:45
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dungeon cousin posted:Terrains should have like three effects tops. It does feel like a bit much, doesn't it? This is like the Yugioh stuff during the first Pegasus arc. Just tons of little tiny rules that shouldn't really exist.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:27
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At least that gave us "I attack the moon!"
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Sep 8, 2017 07:47
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Regalingualius posted:At least that gave us "I attack the moon!" Or destroying the Castle of Dark Illusions levitation ring which is held in place by Swords of Revealing Light but it falls on top of the enemies monsters who can't escape due to Luster Shield. Just... why?
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Sep 8, 2017 07:55
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Regalingualius posted:At least that gave us "I attack the moon!" You say that like attacking the moon was something that went away. 
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Sep 8, 2017 08:03
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Omnicrom posted:You say that like attacking the moon was something that went away. I quite enjoy that the Yu-Gi-Oh devs decided to make cards based on all the bullshit the writers pulled during Duelist Kingdom. Also, in case anyone was still wondering why it made no sense during that arc, it's because the card game didn't exist yet, and the manga's author had intended "Duel Monsters" to just be one of the many, many games his manga focused on (before Duel Monsters, the manga was just about a mostly-evil spirit possessing a kid to murder bad guys with poo poo like air hockey and clock solitaire), so he didn't put a ton of thought into the rules. But, when the card game that was intended as a generic-brand Magic The Gathering became a bit hit with readers, the author more or less tossed out everything he'd done up to that point and focused entirely on the children's card game. It's sort of like if Pokemon had originally been a manga about competitive animal breeding (kennel clubs, livestock contests, etc.) until Pokemon were introduced to add an action element and wound up so popular that they took over.
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Sep 8, 2017 08:45
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the Orb of Zot posted:I am still in shock that, with how steadfast the game is in refusing to let you have anything good, that you can still get Speed Boost Torchic/Protean Froakie/Contrary Snivy at the start of the game. They used to exist. They patched them out and replaced them with things like Skitty, or Espurr.
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Sep 10, 2017 22:44
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I'm just waiting for when Pokemon fan game makers to just give up on the concept of 'difficulty' and just opt for 'impossible'. Pokemon fan game where your rival has a level 100 Super Deoxys with a base 180 in every stat and your starter is a level 1 Sunkern. Supplicants on their message boards telling people to complain about it to 'git gud'
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Sep 10, 2017 22:49
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ChrisBTY posted:I'm just waiting for when Pokemon fan game makers to just give up on the concept of 'difficulty' and just opt for 'impossible'. Pfft, sounds like someone's a filthy CASUAL. It's like you think Pokemon is meant for children or something!
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Sep 10, 2017 23:09
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EclecticTastes posted:Pfft, sounds like someone's a filthy CASUAL. It's like you think Pokemon is meant for children or something! This is just making me think of Pokemon Rusty with the EV Training song.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:22
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Finally caught up with this, spent most of the morning rolling my eyes because thinking back on it, most of the ideas people wanted ("I want a Pokemon game with more adult themes! I want one where you don't have to fight gym battles! Give us a protag who isn't a ten-year-old silent prodigy!") were all done in Pokemon Colloseum. Somehow, nobody ever actually gave enough of a flying gently caress about Colloseum, and people keep making fangames that retread similar ideas but through a mirror darkly, distorting the seeds of competency into absurdity. At least with Reborn, basically being the headchild of a forum roleplay married to Pokemon Showdown explains why they tried... and it absolutely does explain the level of spite at play. Antivehicular posted:The problem is that it combines with the game's active spite towards the player to really give off the vibe that the creators favor the NPCs and are angry at the MC, maybe resentful they even have to have a player-controlled main character in their Pokemon fangame and couldn't just release a game about their pet NPCs. (I suspect this is closer to the truth than anyone is likely to admit.) This is their sandbox and if you can't play by their rules that state first and foremost that You Suck And We Are Awesome, then you can just get the gently caress out to...we don't really care where, just not around us. Loser. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Sep 11, 2017 |
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Sep 11, 2017 19:28
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At least Uranium waits a little bit to give the player the finger and doesn't have dialog anywhere near as cringeworthy. Reborn pulls no punches in the "gently caress you, player" department, both for gameplay and NPC dialog.Robindaybird posted:I'm going to have to agree, it sounds like Tie's just really bad, because while I remember some fights being rough as I never had the cards, but yeah - the only way the game would seem completely unfair is if he never read the manual or go through the tutorial, because I admit if you just go in the game blind and expect it to play like a normal YGO game, it will be rough. Tie's stray path showed off that Bandit Keith wears a Union Jack bandanna in Duelists of the Roses instead of an American flag one, though. I can't begrudge him for that decision. get that OUT of my face fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Sep 12, 2017 |
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Sep 12, 2017 04:10
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