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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Tired Moritz posted:

Go with the dark hair girl. I suggest Ebony and the most goffic pokemon starter (Snivy?) Name it Dementia
Jumping on the :bandwagon:

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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

I don't think they're so bad, honestly. I kinda like the Charmander line's shiny forms.
They actually made Charizard less stereotypically grimdark by replacing the red with shades of blue. Clearly an error on their part.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
I'm sure glad they spent a fifth of the map space on one city and another fifth on poo poo not in the game. It might be readable otherwise.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Gen 1 is held together with silly string and paper clips, so obedience issues would just be another for the list of bugs and weird poo poo plaguing it.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Also anything that had access to Amnesia could quickly become a killing machine(since it boosted Special by two stages).

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Also bear in mind that Gen 1 had a small budget & small/amateur devteam, so things couldn't be tested as well as they could with modern Pokemon games. And a lot of these glitches are things you either wouldn't notice in normal gameplay(how many kids are going to notice the agility/paralysis interaction?) or require unusual actions before they happen(like Missingno). It's amazing Missingo got well known enough to become a playground rumor, honestly.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
So could the Pokemon Mansion, although then you'd miss out on that sweet Mewtwo lore.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
To be fair, the only Ghost move that used the normal damage formula was Lick. Even if the type chart worked right, it wouldn't be hard to find a move with more effective power than a SE Lick.

And Ghost was a Physical type, even though the only ghost line was all Special attackers.

Gen I was really more put together by what sounded cool than by what made for good game balance.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Bydoless posted:

I'm thinking of doing the following approach:

For each section of the game, specifically sections between gym leaders or other similarly noteworthy trainers, I will do a few updates focused on plot-related content, only stopping for whatever is needed to advance the plot up to the actual gym leader battle.

If I didn't manage to cover all Pokemon catchable by then, I'll do another update on them prior to the actual gym leader. Maybe I'll cover other stuff like notable items we can get or whatever at the same time.
That sounds like a good idea, since it'd at least split things up a bit. Putting lists of catchable pokemon/optional trainers in a separate test post also works, since then only the people who care have to look at it.

You should probably check message length before posting if you're concerned an update's getting too long. Both halves of this update are well over 20k characters with the text alone. For comparison, OFS's last Uranium update was 15k.

Some games LP just fine with long updates, but with something like this multiple shorter updates give the audience time to digest everything that's going on. Shorter updates also encourage you to trim the fat and focus on the most interesting parts.

RyuHimora posted:

Fixed that for 'ya.
Why not both? People who don't understand the difference between difficulty that encourages you to think and difficulty that encourages you to mindlessly grind are a blight, because they don't understand what good difficulty is. :v:

SirSamVimes posted:

I'd like to see screenshot versions of the big battles too, if we're offering suggestions.
Seconding this.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Bruceski posted:

I agree about shorter updates, but I kinda like having them off-site. As long as the links are noticeable, it makes it easier to follow conversation in a thread and avoids the load-fest that can occur when updates outpace other posts too much and all wind up on one page. Is there a reason folks don't do that normally?
On top of what others said, it's harder to quote things from the test poster. It also breaks up the flow of reading the thread, which is slightly annoying. It'd be even worse if you were catching up on several updates.

I like it for optional asides(Crosspeice used it to good effect in their Yellow and Crystal LPs), but there aren't many advantages to using it for the bulk of the update.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Kurui Reiten posted:

Though one of the biggest problems with the idea of "you have these skills too" is that, sadly, a lot of games do that, with one big difference: They don't work on enemies that matter. Other games teach you "sure, you have these debuffs and status effects, but when the bosses come, they're meaningless, and normal enemies are more easily dealt with via punching". So, when people who aren't used to SMT games come to Matador, they see a standard boss compliment of powerful buffs and debuffs, and they figure "well, that poo poo won't work on him, because boss".

It's a mindset that has to be broken before you can really get into SMT games, otherwise they feel hard as poo poo because you've been conditioned to ignore all those options you're given.
Hell, even with normal enemies you have to break that habit. The Persona games have a proud tradition of hard enemies with no apparent weaknesses that are actually weak to status effects.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Bydoless posted:

Yeah, they have a unique cave terrain that OHKOs all Pokemon on the field when Magnitude is used twice. :v:
Of course they do. :what:

Over/under on this being a pro tactic in a later fight?

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
The arms are probably ripped from another real sprite, too. That's how a lot of fan evolution/fusion/whatever sprites get made.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Also, Quartz had less opportunity to introduce idiotic game mechanics like "5 million new terrains" or "badge level caps that apply to pokemon you caught yourself" because it was just plopped on top of the RSE engine. Reborn and Uranium were made in RPGmaker, so they had a lot more opportunity to make the game needlessly complicated.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Xelkelvos posted:

There's always going to be 8 Gyms or gym like things just like there's a championship and a champion to beat. It's basically a staple part of the series and provides a useful way to benchmark the plot and adventure. theming them in things other than types would be a bit more novel like more proper upgraded Trainers with sets themed around things like Wrestling or Treasure Hunting or possibly around certain strategies.
For example, theming a leader around a terrain isn't an awful idea, it's just that Reborn overcomplicated it to hell. It'd also be neat to do something like GF accidentally* did with Flint in DPt - he's got a type theme, but that doesn't mean all his Pokemon are that type.

*At least I assume it was just because how limited the selection of Fire types were.

Tenebrais posted:

If a fangame has decent game design sense and a modicum of writing tact I'm happy to accept whatever it throws at me. A grim, gritty reimagining of the Pokémon verse? Sure, if it's mature rather than just M-rated. A million terrain types with a billion effects? Go ahead, if I can use them in interesting ways and they're not just walls for me to climb. The problem with games like this and Uranium is they had a lot of ideas but not the insight to back them up. Just throwing in a load of cool-sounding stuff doesn't make a good game.
Basically this. People dramatically underestimate how much work it is to do something like "Pokemon, only open world!" or "Pokemon, except there are no gyms and you just get involved with the plot for some other reason!" and do it well, nevermind doing multiple big changes.

I'd eat my hat if someone ever managed to do open-world Pokemon without it being incredibly bland and/or poorly balanced, for instance.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
It's swearing written by people who are just doing it to be edgy, meaning they don't have the writing chops to make it flow naturally. Those fuckers.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Brother Entropy posted:

yeah i was gonna say, most of the named npcs we've seen so far have some overly present obnoxious quirk in place of any actual personality and that crops up plenty of times in terrible rp groups

it's like a whole drat game of fishmalks
Considering the only characters I can remember are I LIKE EXPLOSIONS, I Talk Exactly Like A Robot, and We Are Multiple Personalities, I think you're onto something here.

It reminds me of what happens to real characters once fanartists/writers get their hands on them. Conveying actual personality is hard, so fancreators just latch onto a few key quirks and let the viewer/reader's imagination do the rest.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

get that OUT of my face posted:

Hey, I was right about the "no middle ground" guess.

People still RP in chatrooms? I used to do that a lot, but that was around 1998-2000. No wonder why the writing and characterization's so terrible.
Tumblr seems to have taken over a lot of that space, but yeah, RP is still a thing. Teenagers & manchildren never change.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
It's one person very, very dedicated to being a performance artist.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Robindaybird posted:

Lusamine is interesting in that she prioritize pokemon only as an extension of herself, she has zero qualms freezing pokemon that no longer serve her purpose to keep them in their most beautiful state - and she has pokemon generally considered pretty, this also extends to how she treats her children, once they stopped acting according to how she wants them to, she rejects them. She really has the hallmarks of a narcissistic parent - honestly, Lillie and her brother have behaviors of emotionally abused children, and I wouldn't be surprised until her brother ran away that Lillie was the golden child and her brother the unfavorite so Lusamine can torment to feed her ego.

tl;dr Lusamine is basically Mother Gothel in a Pokemon game
This is one of those things that really highlights the difference in writing skill between Gamefreak and most fangame writers.

Lusamine is evil on a level relatable to all ages. Kids can see her as a mean mom who's so obsessed with beauty that she turned evil. Adults can see her narcissistic traits and how they've impacted her kids, but the game never screams SHE IS A NARCISSIST WHO EMOTIONALLY ABUSED HER KIDS at you. It just gives you the characters and lets you read between the lines.

If she was in Reborn the game wouldn't just be screaming those between-the-lines aspects at you, but it'd be written at a level too intense & edgy for kids to enjoy.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Let's be real, basically everyone who played RBY projected Gary Oak on Blue.

Sure, Blue didn't have a sports car or a mysterious gang of cheerleaders following him, but gently caress him anyway!

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
It's telling that each plot beat is separated by tons of sidequests. The real games have a lot more restraint, and as a result you don't get this feeling of "what should I be doing now, anyway?".

Where are we even supposed to go now that we've beaten PULSE Tangrowth? Hell if I know. The game might have hinted at it once but it got immediately buried under :words: and new sidequests. Being stuck in this huge-yet-samey city isn't helping, either.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

krisslanza posted:

You know, I think EverQuest did this? They had an unkillable boss, for plot reasons. But at least that was kind enough to let you be aware of that. AV is just a horrible, horrid mess. It's like they saw One Sin from .hack, and thought "let's copy it!"
Forgetting that One Sin was actually defeatable.
And they didn't ban people for beating it. :v:

I don't really "get" MMOs, but everything about Absolute Virtue is amazing. It's like the devs figured out how to weaponize spite.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

get that OUT of my face posted:

What's the absolute worst starter final evolution? It's gotta be hard to top Meganium. Tank stats for HP and Spec. Def. and Grass types don't mix.
Gameplay wise? Probably Meganium or Serperior. Playing with tanky/status-focused guys is tedious as hell compared to more offensively-focused mons. And Serperior can't get access to what makes it good(contrary) as a starter in the real games.

Design-wise? I honestly don't hate any of them, but probably Meganium(I loathe that shade of green compared to what Chikorita and Bayleef had) or Typhlosion(boooring).

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Vinylshadow posted:

I have not played Super Mystery Dungeon so I don't know how dark it gets aside from petrification by Yveltal being involved
It's not super dark, especially since the 'deaths' involved are the turned-to-stone type and get reversed by the end.

It's also kind of a rehash of Gates to Infinity's plot, but it was so much more fun to play that I didn't really mind

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Leraika posted:

I kinda feel like Fern is supposed to be the bad guy rival ala Gary or Silver but written by people with no idea of subtlety and no idea of what makes a bad guy rival entertaining rather than spiteful.
Yeah, I felt like they were going for (everyone's childhood impressions of) Gary Oak without realizing that a)he wasn't in full rear end in a top hat mode 24/7, and b)RBY had so little going on that most of it was people reading too much into things anyway.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

senrath posted:

People think Blue is malicious because they're confusing him with Gary Oak from the anime who was actively a dick to Ash.
That and they've had a couple decades for their memories of him to get foggy. Add in a dash of other fans reinforcing the idea that Blue was a douche, and there you go.

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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

SSNeoman posted:

I was honestly thinking something like Pokemon: Subsistence where you had to use whatever you can scrape up to overcome challenges. But of course level caps would be stupid af in that scenario. period.
Playing without a functionally limitless supply of healing items does make the game a lot harder(for Pokemon values of hard), so I could see that.

I don't think there's any way to make level caps not-stupid without setting them so high they're basically meaningless. Or in the case of the real games, so high & so toothless that they're only there to make it slightly more annoying to sweep with a Pokebanked Lv100 Mewtwo.

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