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Nevets
Sep 11, 2002

Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell

Zaodai posted:

Saros, can I have my ship (the DDG More Missiles!) renamed "Titanic Space Bear"?

We'll strike fear in the hearts of our enemies yet. :argh:

Our adversaries are Vladimir Putin & Bill Gates, I think if you want to really scare them we should rename a couple of our ships "Eyeliner for Men" and "LibreOffice is Just as Good"

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Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Nevets posted:

Our adversaries are Vladimir Putin & Bill Gates, I think if you want to really scare them we should rename a couple of our ships "Eyeliner for Men" and "LibreOffice is Just as Good"

I'll stick with the classics for now.

Greader
Oct 11, 2012

TheWetFish posted:

I keep the wiki open all the time, I've been playing on & off for years. You're more than welcome to ask any questions at all either here or over on the discord chat. There are no dumb questions when it comes to a game this complex, so do ask anything

When we're talking ship specs we're usually looking at the design summary. If you want a quick primer then check out the summary breakdown on the wiki page for class design

Edit:
Here's maybe a more simple primer, looking at those Phobos fighter-bombers we saw last combat. It's all situationally important stuff but these are maybe most immediately important

  1. Class name and arbitrary designation

  2. Size. Bigger is easier to pick up on active sensors. Fighters are under 500 tons, a Schiaparelli class destroyer is 2900 tons, a Zuckerberg is 10650 tons and an Olympos Mons class Battlecruiser is 14450 tons

  3. Speed. Faster things can dictate range and also faster things are harder to hit with relatively slower tracking speed weapons or low agility missiles. Our nominal fleet speed is ~3300km/s, those IC Acquisition fighters go 5042km/s, Type 8 class PD fighters go 8k km/s and missiles are generally north of 8k km/s. I think the fastest enemy missiles we've seen are 14k km/s and our short range fighter based missiles at ~17k km/s

  4. Armour. Aurora uses a box armour system. First value is rows (thickness), second is number of columns (width). Hits are randomly assigned a column and then cause damage from the lowest point in that column. Bigger ships have more columns, as does thicker armour

  5. Missile magazine space. Each missile needs to be stored somewhere. Total missile size points of storage.
    24 size 1 missiles or (in this case) 8 size 1 missiles & 8 size 2 missiles

  6. Range this ship can travel before running out of fuel. Ships can share fuel with other ships in their fleet but I think our current doctrine calls for every non-fighter ship to be reasonably self sufficient. (Do we even have a tanker class?) We are in the Sol system so you can google min & max distances between planets to get some perspective on ranges

  7. Weapons components go here. Shown are 8 of size 1 missile box launchers and also 8 of size 2 missile box launchers

  8. Fire controls, used to direct weapons fire. Shown is a missile fire control, there are also beam fire controls for direct fire weapons such as Gauss Cannons or Plasma Carronades

  9. Missile types carried

  10. Active sensor, needed to light targets up for weapons fire. Most important bits are the range & resolution. The range ships or missiles are detected at depends on the resolution of the sensor, it's base range and the size of the target. Smaller resolution is better at spotting small things. Resolution 1 to spot enemy missiles, resolution 8 for fighters


Guess my eyes are not gonna glaze over anymore. Joking aside, this is pretty helpful to actually understand these so thank you for that. Maybe I am gonna check out Aurora in a couple days when I got the time for it, after all I somehow managed to get into DF.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

OwlFancier posted:

Well you got me to download this game and it's terrifying, is there any sort of new player guide?

E: looks like quill18 has a video series so I'll watch that.

EnterElysium has an Aurora 4x I recommend instead. I much prefer listening to Quill18, but Quill's playthrough doesn't encounter any aliens in the first 30 episodes. I'm not sure how many more it takes to get to aliens because I stopped watching at that point.

Does anyone else know of a good Aurora video lp?

There are also some fantastic writeups in their forums, but most of them are narrative and so don't help much with mechanics. http://aurora2.pentarch.org/

CoffeeQaddaffi
Mar 20, 2009
You will know within 20 minutes of hands on play whether or not Aurora is for you. I can't imagine watching someone else play it in VLP format :smithicide:. That said, bgremen's posts in his LP help explain a lot of the mechanics; and there's not only the discord for this LP, but an Aurora 4x discord as well (I believe they are both linked in the OP).

Crazyeyes24
Sep 14, 2014

Your good vision is your fatal weakness!
Elysium and Quill were the only two video series I could find with Aurora gameplay.

Fray
Oct 22, 2010

CoffeeHitler and I have been theorycrafting the Type 8 design on discord. We've found that a railgun based design will be vastly superior to the current gauss-armed one:

code:
Type 8 Mk2 - Copy class Fighter    492 tons     4 Crew     84.4 BP      TCS 9.84  TH 80  EM 0
8130 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 98%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 21    5YR 315    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 0    

80 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 80    Fuel Use 376.18%    Signature 80    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.5 billion km   (16 hours at full power)

10cm Railgun V3/C2 (1x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 8130 km/s     Power 3-2     RM 3    ROF 10        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.7 72-2000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1.25 (1.5) (1)     Total Power Output 1.5    Armour 0    Exp 20%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
The gauss design has a mean shootdown rate of 0.8 missiles, given the missile speeds we have observed. In other words, every time it fires it will shoot down an average of 0.8 missiles. This is not effective PD.

This above rail design has a mean shootdown rate of 1.88 missiles, a 135% improvement, while also being slightly cheaper.

This might be counterintuitive. Normally you see gauss used for PD roles on larger warships, because they have a high ROF and can be turreted. Railguns also have a high ROF but cannot be turreted, which normally makes them unsuitable. However on a PD fighter you rely on the ship's speed rather than a turret to give the tracking necessary to hit missiles. This means gauss lose their advantage and railguns become superior due to higher base accuracy and ROF.

CoffeeQaddaffi
Mar 20, 2009
To go along with the rail variant, I also designed a Laser variant:

code:
Type 8 Mk2 (Laser) class Fighter    497 tons     4 Crew     88.4 BP      TCS 9.94  TH 80  EM 0
8048 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 1.87 Years     MSP 11    AFR 19%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 4    5YR 60    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 0    

80 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 80    Fuel Use 376.18%    Signature 80    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.5 billion km   (16 hours at full power)

10cm C2 Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 120,000km     TS: 8048 km/s     Power 3-2     RM 4    ROF 10        3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S00.7 72-2000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1.25 (1.5) (1)     Total Power Output 1.5    Armour 0    Exp 20%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
It should be noted that the Laser variant has a 19% Annual Failure Rate, owing to being able to fit Fighter-sized Engineering Spaces. Without the FES, it has roughly the same stats as the Rail Variant in terms of speed. This might be a good supplement to the Fighter Bomber design currently in use, owing to the 10cm Laser's longer effective range. This shouldn't really give it any effective advantage for Anti-Fighter or Anti-Missile use versus either variant (original or Rail).

For reference, the current Type 8:

code:
Type 8 class Fighter    500 tons     10 Crew     92 BP      TCS 10  TH 80  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3.5
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 16    5YR 243    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.12 months    Spare Berths 0    

80 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 80    Fuel Use 376.18%    Signature 80    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.5 billion km   (16 hours at full power)

Gauss Cannon R3-8 (7x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 8%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.7 72-2000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?


The railgun Type 8 looks like it would be way better, yeah. Also, I realize that a lot of the discussions in the thread/Discord about defending Titan haven't been officially put into writing, so while I'm at it here's Operation Thunderclap.

-Consult with @TFS Leadership re: their thoughts on glassing the DSTS that's still in IC hands. We'd really like to, letting the enemy watch our every move in high-def is understandably not the most optimal way to fight a war, but at the end of the day it's their call. Maybe there's a halfway point in a targeted ground offensive or something?
-If they give the go-ahead, glass the place, have the SB cook up our comms fuckery, and move all the assets we can into hidden positions/do our best to disguise those we can't move
-If the DSTS gets glassed, dispatch the FSV's and carrier with IC fighters aboard to launch sorties against the Uranus force. Be extremely careful, we can't spare any escorts so distance and staying hidden are their main defense. This is intended to harass the Uranus force and reduce what we have to deal with when they actually get to Titan, not fully destroy it (but if we get really lucky it might).

-If we don't get the go-ahead, get ready to fight them off the old-fashioned way. Our options for trickery are a lot more limited if the DSTS is still up and in IC hands. We can disperse small beam ships to the various moons so they can hide and pop out at opportune moments, but the bulk of the fight is gonna be the missile exchange no matter what. The consensus on that seems to be wait until the IC fleet(s) are in range of all our missiles, then dump a massive first salvo into the battlecruisers and hope it fucks them up enough that we can deal with the rest.


Questions, concerns, angry tirades?

Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Aug 24, 2017

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Coffeehitler posted:

You will know within 20 minutes of hands on play whether or not Aurora is for you. I can't imagine watching someone else play it in VLP format :smithicide:. That said, bgremen's posts in his LP help explain a lot of the mechanics; and there's not only the discord for this LP, but an Aurora 4x discord as well (I believe they are both linked in the OP).

I've been playing it for probably about 12 hours now and I actually do enjoy watching quill VLP it, especailly as I started just copying his stuff, very nicely informative and I like the "don't generate aliens until I explore some" option a hell of a lot.

I will look at EE, I'm mostly worried now about having no idea what constitutes a "good" ship as it's hard to get a handle on, like, how much of anything you actually need, firepower, guns, tracking, ammo, speed, size, whatever.

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!



Third Fleet's stand continues.

30 April, 1238hrs

With Martian fighters retreating and out of ammo the remaining IC fighters slow to let them reassemble. Their main fleet turns towards Titan holding the range at about 45m km.

30 April, 1257hrs

The IC fighters close to 20m km and knowing this is their favored launch range Third fleet turns away and tries to outrun any missile salvo.

30 April, 1307hrs

Ten minutes later a salvo of 36 missiles appears at the edge of detection range. This roughly matches al full salvo from the IC's Einstein class missile cruisers.

30 April, 1309hrs


Lt-Gen Crazyeyes Levy class Ask Questions Later takes nineteen hits but her thick armor absorbs the damage.


Tough ships! It seems to only be a single salvo from the Einstein's. Likely a ranging salvo in case 3rd decided to attempt to outrun their missiles.


Two minutes later 230 missiles are spotted incoming from the enemy fighters. The IC fighters also turn around and start to retreat towards their carriers at this point.



Their target is the light carrier Left Obturator Foramen and despite desperate point defence attempts she takes over 130 hits and goes up in flames as her thin armor gives way and magazines breach. Lt-Gen Z the IVth thankfully escapes the inferno.




The loss of a carrier means that all fighters wil have to be turned around on Tigers Claw at least doubling the time before another strike is ready. With no immediate threats visible Mariner Valley slows to pick up the survivors and the fleet turns back toward the IC ships to close the range.

30 April, 1330hrs

Half the fighters begin rearming on the single remaining carrier. The Type 8's are too slow and have only shot down a single incoming missile so far so are dispatched to attempt to break around the enemy flank and engage their carriers.

30 April, 1337hrs
The range closes to 40m km and the big ships open their missile hatches.


The two Zuckerberg class CAA's are the first target with the two Bill Gates class heavy cruisers as the next two. Overall 700 missiles are put into space towards the enemy fleet.


Lots of missiles.

30 April, 1356hrs


After twenty more minutes the first squadron is reloaded and shuffles out of the fighter bays to make room for the other.


At the same time a series of missile contacts appears on the scopes, multiple salvo's of 36 coming in fast!



Ask questions later is the target again and staggers under multiple hits even as her autocannons desperately try and fend of the incoming missiles.


After the third salvo both her main engines are hit and disabled and she shudders to a halt.


Extremely bad luck losing both engines and a fire control!


Her guns still fire and the fleet hauls about to cover the motionless ship but without being able to dodge the next salvo tears hear apart.


:rip: Lt-Gen Crazyeyes :rip:


Next up is the guided missile Cruiser Fist of Mars and with half the fleets dedicated PD gone more hits are sneaking through.




Luckily only two more salvos remain and Scintilla's Fist of Mars remains combat capable if badly shaken.


Miraculously no internal damage.

Saros fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Aug 25, 2017

Negative Entropy
Nov 30, 2009

Coffeehitler posted:

To go along with the rail variant, I also designed a Laser variant:

code:
Type 8 Mk2 (Laser) class Fighter    497 tons     4 Crew     88.4 BP      TCS 9.94  TH 80  EM 0
8048 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 1.87 Years     MSP 11    AFR 19%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 4    5YR 60    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 0    

80 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 80    Fuel Use 376.18%    Signature 80    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.5 billion km   (16 hours at full power)

10cm C2 Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 120,000km     TS: 8048 km/s     Power 3-2     RM 4    ROF 10        3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S00.7 72-2000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1.25 (1.5) (1)     Total Power Output 1.5    Armour 0    Exp 20%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
It should be noted that the Laser variant has a 19% Annual Failure Rate, owing to being able to fit Fighter-sized Engineering Spaces. Without the FES, it has roughly the same stats as the Rail Variant in terms of speed. This might be a good supplement to the Fighter Bomber design currently in use, owing to the 10cm Laser's longer effective range. This shouldn't really give it any effective advantage for Anti-Fighter or Anti-Missile use versus either variant (original or Rail).

For reference, the current Type 8:

code:
Type 8 class Fighter    500 tons     10 Crew     92 BP      TCS 10  TH 80  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3.5
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 16    5YR 243    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.12 months    Spare Berths 0    

80 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 80    Fuel Use 376.18%    Signature 80    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.5 billion km   (16 hours at full power)

Gauss Cannon R3-8 (7x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 8%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.7 72-2000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

The laser Type 8 is a better strike craft and has much better range than the others (four times) , same rate of fire, cheaper, less crew and better supportability.
I support this design.
If we need a missile hunter the rail gun is good but what are those accuracy range brackets?

Fray
Oct 22, 2010

Kommando posted:

The laser Type 8 is a better strike craft and has much better range than the others (four times) , same rate of fire, cheaper, less crew and better supportability.
I support this design.
If we need a missile hunter the rail gun is good but what are those accuracy range brackets?

Keep in mind that railguns and gauss both fire multiple shots per "fire," so their effective ROF is vastly higher than lasers. So the laser Type 8 won't be useful as a PD craft but yes, it would be good for antiship or antifighter work.

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade
:allears: Love all the missiles.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?


Because of the way lasers work, yes, the laser design will be much worse at PD (only fires once every 10 seconds instead of 8 times), but will be better at penetrating armor/loving up other fighters. On the whole I still favor the railgun version, but the laser has its merits. Just not on this specific platform, I feel. If we want a laser fighter, we should build a proper lance fighter in a tech level or two. Right now we want railguns.

Crazyeyes24
Sep 14, 2014

Your good vision is your fatal weakness!
:rip:

Put me in the back of the list and sign me up for whatever cloning/cybernetic program Mars has. Even in death I shall still serve.

At least the Levys seem to be pretty capable PD ships, though the enemy picking them out first was a bit... unfortunate.

Crazycryodude posted:

The railgun Type 8 looks like it would be way better, yeah. Also, I realize that a lot of the discussions in the thread/Discord about defending Titan haven't been officially put into writing, so while I'm at it here's Operation Thunderclap.

-Consult with @TFS Leadership re: their thoughts on glassing the DSTS that's still in IC hands. We'd really like to, letting the enemy watch our every move in high-def is understandably not the most optimal way to fight a war, but at the end of the day it's their call. Maybe there's a halfway point in a targeted ground offensive or something?
-If they give the go-ahead, glass the place, have the SB cook up our comms fuckery, and move all the assets we can into hidden positions/do our best to disguise those we can't move
-If the DSTS gets glassed, dispatch the FSV's and carrier with IC fighters aboard to launch sorties against the Uranus force. Be extremely careful, we can't spare any escorts so distance and staying hidden are their main defense. This is intended to harass the Uranus force and reduce what we have to deal with when they actually get to Titan, not fully destroy it (but if we get really lucky it might).

-If we don't get the go-ahead, get ready to fight them off the old-fashioned way. Our options for trickery are a lot more limited if the DSTS is still up and in IC hands. We can disperse small beam ships to the various moons so they can hide and pop out at opportune moments, but the bulk of the fight is gonna be the missile exchange no matter what. The consensus on that seems to be wait until the IC fleet(s) are in range of all our missiles, then dump a massive first salvo into the battlecruisers and hope it fucks them up enough that we can deal with the rest.


Questions, concerns, angry tirades?

Seconded. Though I would also ask what jamming capabilities the SB can offer in the case that the TSF doesn't want the place glassed. If they can at least keep the reports from getting out, it would help.

Neophyte
Apr 23, 2006

perennially
Taco Defender
Also going from capacitor recharge rate 2 to 3 (and we've got some captured/salvaged C3 weapons to study) will double the rate of fire for the railgun and laser Type 8 versions. The only requirement is a slightly larger reactor on the fighters.

Also LOL missile massacree.

CoffeeQaddaffi
Mar 20, 2009

Neophyte posted:

Also going from capacitor recharge rate 2 to 3 (and we've got some captured/salvaged C3 weapons to study) will double the rate of fire for the railgun and laser Type 8 versions. The only requirement is a slightly larger reactor on the fighters.

Also LOL missile massacree.

I'm looking at it and I'm not seeing how we can do this with our current tech level. Not and keep the same rough speed.

Edit: Looking at it, it requires the Ion Drive Technology mentioned in the design request post spoiler, barring a massive improvement in weapons tech, for the miniaturization.

CoffeeQaddaffi fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Aug 25, 2017

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Targeting our carriers and PD ships was pretty smart of the IC. I'm just glad they didn't get both carriers.

Given that we've already fired all our missiles. Do we even want to continue closing on the IC? Essentially, this is the point where we should decide if we're going to close to beam range for a fight to the death or not.

CoffeeQaddaffi
Mar 20, 2009
The entire reason for this battle is to lighten the load on Triton Fleet at Titan for the Second Battle of Triton. While 3rd Fleet could come out of this battle much, much worse because of the debilitating effects of the IC's microwave weapons, closing to at least extreme beam range is needed for them to accomplish their objective. They've already delayed this IC fleet, and horribly mangled it to the point that it might not be a grave enough threat to make us flee from Saturn, but they've not turned for home so they're still combat effective enough to be a threat to the TFS and Triton Fleet.

It is imperative that we at least make an attempt to close to extreme beam range, though the IC fleet has a slight speed advantage on us (looks like 12 km/s) so they get to dictate the range.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?


If they want to try and open the range we can still just cycle fighter sorties at them and see how they like a few hundred missiles every couple hours for a change. If they want to use their advantage to close to beam range, well, that's what we're aiming for anyways.

Negative Entropy
Nov 30, 2009

Fray posted:

Keep in mind that railguns and gauss both fire multiple shots per "fire," so their effective ROF is vastly higher than lasers. So the laser Type 8 won't be useful as a PD craft but yes, it would be good for antiship or antifighter work.

Yeah but at 8000km/s you can cover 40,000kms in a 5s tick. That's the entire range of the railguns. With 4 shots per two ticks.
If a railgun Type 8 engages a 17,000km/s missile head on it gets four shots off as it approaches in one tick. Then about faces and pursues the missiles. The next tick the missiles travel 85,000kms while the type 8 travels 40,000kms. The type 8 is recharging.
That's already 45,000kms of distance between them. Next tick the type 8 can fire but the missiles are already out of range.

The laser will get two shots off (approach and persuit) before the missiles make 135,000kms distance on the fourth tick and they're out of range.

The railguns still a better PD, but only one salvo per intercept. Even if we improve our ROF to 5s.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
The 3rd fleet must have at the very least heavily damaged some IC ships and forced them to use up a whole lot of missiles. I don't suppose there is any way they can take out the IC's auxiliaries? If we could that would all but cripple the IC fleet before it ever gets anywhere near Titan.

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

John Pearce reporting from Luna:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzG4m6eoNKY

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?


:monocle:

Crazyeyes24
Sep 14, 2014

Your good vision is your fatal weakness!
:colbert:

Pics or it didn't happen.

Such a momentous event, and they have no live reporting on it, no lead up. Just "oh by the way we broke the light barrier." Seems like typical Terran propaganda.

TheWetFish
Mar 30, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
That is one hell of a spanner into everything.

Extra-solar colonies breaks the nuclear MAD standoff. Extra-solar Sorium breaks the Sorium trade open in the midium to long term. Extra-solar TNE resources in general ensures United Terra will outpace us in the medium to long term. United Terra might even attract some unwanted attention and be unable to deal with it (or, worse, they do deal with it :devil: )

Now would be an exceptional time for Facility to wake up :ohdear:

Hessi
Oct 28, 2010
The Earth ambassador already showed us pictures of people raising the flag on an unknown planet a day earlier, so we have to assume our worst case analysis of Earth being in the beginning stages of interstellar activity is true, which has huge implications on our conflict with IC, TNE material prices (suddenly not limited to what can be found around Sol) and everything.

RubricMarine
Feb 14, 2012

I think with that huge revelation it's time to bring the IC to the negotiating table. Tell them that with the UT exploring new systems and our control of the Saturnine sorium harvesters, things won't go back to the way they were even if they were to magically hold us off forever. Their sorium monopoly is dead. But it doesn't have to be bad for the head honchos: We could offer to buy their assets, buy their company/country as it were, so they can still profit and still be trillionaires somewhere else, but we stop the pointless war and let everyone get back to business. We could then dissolve the company, see what Earth thinks (perhaps a guaranteed "neutral" Titan so it's still theoretically not our monopoly), then execute a captain or two to mollify the anger that Mars got nuked.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?


Yeah I like that idea, the IC is run by a "Triumvirate", which assuming that's not just a symbolic name means there's only 3 people we need to bribe in exchange for all their poo poo. Hell, the Triumvir from Saturn is about to get guillotined by angry dockworkers, so really there's only two.

Offering to buy out the IC, stripping all their assets down to the floorboards to go towards more useful things like terraforming, and :commissar:'ing some senior officers who gave the order to nuke us or whatever just might work. We really need to get extrasolar, though, letting earth build up any more lead than we absolutely have to could be devastating.

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

I'm fine with a corporate buyout, and hopefully the facility gives us something to be on somewhat equal footing with UT.

Dr. Snark
Oct 15, 2012

I'M SORRY, OK!? I admit I've made some mistakes, and Jones has clearly paid for them.
...
But ma'am! Jones' only crime was looking at the wrong files!
...
I beg of you, don't ship away Jones, he has a wife and kids!

-United Nations Intelligence Service

HiHo ChiRho posted:

I'm fine with a corporate buyout, and hopefully the facility gives us something to be on somewhat equal footing with UT.

Does "an arsenal of advanced alien missiles and drones" count? Cause we found that.

But yes, this seriously ups the priority of us winning the battle for Titan. We need that victory to get us in the best possible position for a surrender negotiation or whatever we dress it up as.

Nevets
Sep 11, 2002

Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell

Crazycryodude posted:

We really need to get extrasolar, though, letting earth build up any more lead than we absolutely have to could be devastating.

What's the status of future law regarding territorial claims? The Solar system didn't used to be neatly divvied up, at one point there had to have been competing claims to significant bodies like the outer moons. I think any extra-solar land grabs are going to have to be regulated by a similar international law.

If you control the jump point to another system do you 'own' the entire system? Can you control traffic through a jump point or are they considered 'international waters'? If you build a gate at a jump point can you charge for passage, and how much?

If you just land on a body first do you own the entire body? Or is it the first nation to establish a significant facility?

If you discover alien life, especially sentient life, how do you deal with it? Who deals with it, the discovering nation or an international committee? What rights do extra terrestrials have preventing exploitation or displacement? Are there multiple levels of sentience or is there just one line in the sand?

Even if Earth has a jump start on us technologically, we could tie up the actual exploitation of extra-solar resources in international courts for years, maybe decades, until we get a clearly defined treaty that is acceptable.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
And what, exactly, is stopping Earth from ignoring that and quietly exploiting extrasolar stuff anyways? We have no means to travel like they do, they have a much larger military and significant strategic reserves. They have us in the grip of MAD considering their enormous stockpiles of missiles pointed squarely at Mars. Oh and they're a brutal authoritarian dictatorship who currently seem to mostly be neutral by necessity.

We need to get extrasolar before we can even begin to be able to re-establish some kind of order. Whatever spies or influence we have on Earth need to make stealing this like a level 0 priority or we're hosed.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I feel like in space, territory is wherever you can shoot any other bastard who tries to take it.

Crazyeyes24
Sep 14, 2014

Your good vision is your fatal weakness!
The problem is that currently Earth holds all the cards and we are still tied up dealing with the IC. They set the laws, or ignore them. Tying them up in spacecourt is impossible. Push comes to shove they can use force to get their way at this point.

We need to buy out all that we can from the soon-to-fail business venture that is the IC. We need that tech and resources to play catch up to the Terrans before they draw unwanted extrasolar attention. If they do, hopefully their amassed fleets give us enough buffer room to build up our own.

This is a paradigm shift for the whole system and we are going to need to pivot quickly to match.

TheWetFish
Mar 30, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

OwlFancier posted:

I feel like in space, territory is wherever you can shoot any other bastard who tries to take it.

Plasma carronades over politics

Nevets
Sep 11, 2002

Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell

Zore posted:

And what, exactly, is stopping Earth from ignoring that and quietly exploiting extrasolar stuff anyways?

It probably won't stop them, but it may slow them down. Private investment in questionably legal mining operations is going to be very low. Plus since we are in a state of MAD, the only way Earthers get to keep on breathing is if Martians don't see themselves on the path to extinction.

If Earth can't be trusted to honor it's word, then when they eventually win the Cold War what's to stop them from turning Mars into one giant gulag? When faced with that prospect Martians would prefer taking their chances with the nuclear option, and Earth knows this.

Scintilla
Aug 24, 2010

I BEAT HIGHFORT
and all I got was this
jackass monkey
Another pressing issue is just how many jump points exist in Sol. Did Facility say how many there were? Because right now the only ones we know about are A) under Earth's control and B) have Not Very Nice Things on the other side. As things stand it appears the best strategic option would be to absorb what's left of the IC, put their tech-bros to work researching and building a bunch of gravitational survey vessels while simultaneously doing everything possible to slow down and/or sabotage Terra's efforts at establishing extra-solar colonies.

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Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

:::TOP SECRET:::



REPORT: The New Frontier

Commanders.

By now you will have seen the report from Col. Sebmojo about the remarkable discovery on Pluto. Combined with the recent announcement from Terra our forecasting groups believe that we are at the beginning of a new space race.

From information and scientific data provided by the Plutonian facility and datafiles accessed since its descent into non-responsive catatonia after the incident in orbit we believe that there are two forms of interstellar travel.

Wormhole travel:

The first, which is believed to be both very advanced and difficult is direct point to point travel via wormhole generation. This directly links two points of the universe via a probable Einstein-Rosen bridge and allows simple and easy travel between them through the ‘gateway’ generated. It is this form of travel we believe we witnessed off Pluto and it is very poorly understood as the energy levels and technologies involved are far beyond anything we are capable of mustering and no direct information on this travel method was ever disclosed directly by the facility intelligence.

For these reasons we believe that Terra has not developed direct wormhole travel and is instead focused on the second form of interstellar travel detailed below.

Jump travel:

From what our scientists have assessed the universe has natural weak spots in the fabric of space-time that link to another weak point and allow a properly equipped ship to transition nearly instantaneously between them. These ‘Jump points’ appear to require three factors to form. Firstly, gravitational distortion from our own universe, primarily stars and other massive objects. Secondly a neutrino wind e.g. one generated by the fusion processes inside a star though nothing seems to rule out an artificial neutrino source. Finally gravitational anomalies whose origin can only be described as cross-dimensional. The equations seem to strongly imply that our universe is only one of many (a multiverse theory if you will) and that the ‘closest’ other universes impact ours in certain ways, mainly via gravity.

Practically what this all means is that the Solar system has one or more of these jump points and that Terra seems to have developed basic technology to detect and use them.

Jump Point Detection:
Jump points are virtually impossible to spot without knowing they are there. To detect a jump point requires that you perform a gravitational survey using specialised equipment across three rings around a star or other body. A minimum of thirty separate points must be surveyed to guarantee complete coverage, sol’s estimated survey points are attached here (white numbered rings). As you can see they are relatively far apart and distant from Sol.



Jump Point Usage:
To make use of a jump point a ship must have a special type of device fitted dubbed a ‘Jump Drive.’ A development of sorts from the drive fields used by all TN craft when activated inside a jump point this will take the ship to the corresponding matching jump point in another system seemingly instantaneously although. Every jump Drive has a maximum mass it can transit and depending on the design of the jump drive it can also project a large enough field to carry along other ships, even those not normally capable of jump travel. We believe that Terra has constructed a small number of jump capable ships and performed at least a partial survey of the jump points in Sol, at least enough to reveal one which they have successfully transited and began to explore whatever is beyond.



Jump Gates:
From what we have gleaned from the data provided from facility it seems to be possible to ‘stabilise’ naturally occurring jump points so that they form a stable bridge between the stars. The indications are that once stabilised a normal TN engine drive field could be easily adapted to transit the point removing the requirement for a specialised jump drive. Crucially this is an advanced application of the underlying theory and intel/forecasting considers it very unlikely that Terra has developed technology for this purpose or even knows that it is possible.



Mars Fleet:
Right now our best scientists and engineers are working around the clock to prototype and fabricate gravitational scanners, jump drives and jump point stabilisation devices. While Terra appears to have gotten *ahem* the jump on us in this matter our information from the facility contained information on a number of what can be described as idealised designs which we are reverse-engineering as we speak. While many parts of the designs are beyond our capabilities to duplicate right now we believe this will give us, at least at first, better practical jump technology than the Terrans as they are forced to derive everything from first principles.



The second space race is on and Mars does not intend to be left behind.

--------------------------------------------------------

Third fleets battle will be concluded in the next updates and depending on outcome we will then either move onto political decisions to shape the new space race or the second battle of Titan will commence.

Saros fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 25, 2017

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