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1B 2B
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Nov 17, 2017 23:58
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1A - Learning what's on the other side of that jump point is of vital importance to the Martian state. How can we make valid long-term decisions if we hide our heads in the sand? 2A - We'll have more opportunities to capture one of these vessels. For now we need to keep our fleet intact. Greater challenges are coming.
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Nov 18, 2017 00:00
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1B, 2B, except we should fortify the far side of the Pit's JP, assuming we can use our missiles there. I suppose that might provoke the aliens, but then again they'd come anyway.
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Nov 18, 2017 00:36
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1B 2B
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Nov 18, 2017 00:45
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1B , 2B
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Nov 18, 2017 00:54
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Also since it hasn't been mentioned for awhile Ceterum censeo Terra delendam esse.
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Nov 18, 2017 01:29
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Lets touch on some technical issues. In some ways it is easier to hold the far side of a JP if it is in a nebula, as The Pit is. Squadron Jumps let the enemy jump through the point and be thrown clear of the JP but before that happens they still need to move to the centre of the point on The Pit side and marshal everyone together. The far side provides for a tighter fortification because it's a tiny specific area that they have to go through, as opposed to the much larger area on the far side We could in theory park a whole bunch of stationary 45cm laser cannon right on The Pit side of the The Pit-Ranganui JP and they'd probably do a fair bit. We don't have a whole bunch of 45cm laser cannon lying around nor a defensive platform that uses them so I'm advocating for guarding the Ranganui side for now with option; 1C: Withdraw to Ranginui and guard the Ranginui -> Pit jump point along with Triton Fleet Now that we strongly suspect that the Terrans also have access to this system we're in a bit of a bind. On the one hand it could be nice to watch some Terran's get smacked down by some aliens but on the other hand we really do not want Terra salvaging any of this alien tech TheWetFish fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Nov 18, 2017 |
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Nov 18, 2017 02:04
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We got lucky, but this force isn't large enough to really secure this place. If they can drop ships that big in, that also means they more than likely have enough ships to push us back out, if not wipe us out if they send a dedicated force. 1C As for the Shiva, it's too dangerous to just leave it, but I also don't want to just blow it into pieces unnecessarily. If we kill it, then we kill it, but at least we should take as many efforts to understand what we're dealing with; both for the sake of knowledge itself and also for our own future protection. 2B
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Nov 18, 2017 05:37
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Given that UT have (possibly) arrived in the system, should we try to send a ship through the 3rd JP?
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Nov 18, 2017 15:38
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chippocrates posted:Given that UT have (possibly) arrived in the system, should we try to send a ship through the 3rd JP? We could try it, but given that we don't know for sure that they didn't just see some other fight and keeping jumps to a minimum is a good idea, I'd rather not.
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Nov 18, 2017 15:46
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Option 1 should be decided once we jump an explorer and a fleet scout to the other side, if we see a hostile capital system or 4 Shivas approaching the JP, we ll have to do 1C, if its an empty system and the fleet scouts radar detects nothing for now, we can do 1B. Option 2 a definite 2B, try to disable, but if it dies, thats fine too.
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Nov 18, 2017 22:57
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1B 2B Mars takes what it wants, and doesn't give it back.
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Nov 19, 2017 18:31
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Actually if Terra is in system that changes things a bit. It means we can't really defer for too long as Terra I think still has a bigger fleet and arguably one more suited for this terrain with their carrier focus. I guess it is necessary to secure the system in which case I change my vote to 1A, 2A. See if we can secure the far side of the jump point as I still think holding this system is untenable and just gut that drat thing so it can't jump in behind us.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:50
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Once we've monopolized the wreck it's time to consider genociding these aliens together with the UT. If we end up with a more modern fleet than they have we may be able to leverage that advantage to gain more of the spoils from cooperating in annexing alien territory. Our differences with the mostly cooperative UT (more than our own +/- fanatics stance at the very least, although that has gained us additional leverage when negotiating) are insignificant compared to dealing with this incommunicative, hostile, alien race. These aliens undoubtedly have more real estate and technology that humanity needs to prosper or just survive among the Stars, as we will undoubtedly encounter and fight other hostile aliens as well. If we work together with the UT we can genocide these unrelentingly aggressive hostiles who twice opened fire without provocation or responding to communication (killing 52 Martians in just the second half of the engagement), and take their technology and the resources and star systems they would otherwise hold. At least let +/- fanatics deal with these aliens first, they've sown their own destruction. Gaining a technological advantage and eliminating a neighboring competitor will be key to establishing our early dominance among the stars. It's time we valued humanity over political differences, half of Mars may be xenophiles compared to how they feel about the UT, but hopefully this unknown political entity opening fire on us, repeatedly, without provocation will illustrate the folly of valueing potential alien contacts over the polity that we are able to communicate and have a defensive treaty with. That's not to say we shouldn't compete with and eventually annex the UT, but we need to be realistic. They are more likely to be our friends than anything else out there. Edit: They keep trying to kill us, unlike the UT which is being cooperative. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 22:14
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little bit space hitlery there.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:56
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also its the other 90% of humanity
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Nov 19, 2017 23:43
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Can we occupy and enslave these aliens or convert them to loyal citizens? At any rate, we should work with Terra to destroy their military assets and seize their worlds. I'm not suggesting we should do this to a friendly alien species, but we need to value our defensive alliance and destroy these people who tried to murder our squadrons without warning or even an attempt to communicate. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 23:46
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1B 2A Bring it down, salvage it, hold and survey the system until we have consumed the xeno ship with our salvager. Rotate damaged ships out with reinforcements from T fleet. Focusing on getting non-missile ships in system. It is unlikely there is much more in immediate reserve on their side, assuming the Guardian was a reserve vessel, not a regular patrol/supply ship. Once it's salvaged, we will have more info on whether the system is worth defending.
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Nov 19, 2017 23:55
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It occurs to me that if the Terrans are in this system with us we need to add some clauses to the Lunar Accords to deal with situations like this. If the jump network is actually more of a jump grid we need some kind of agreement in place to determine sovereignty. I would suggest a system that connects to both start points belongs to whoever can trace the shortest path to their excursive point back in Sol.
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Nov 20, 2017 00:28
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RA Rx posted:At any rate, we should work with Terra to destroy their military assets and seize their worlds. Who needs their help?
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Nov 20, 2017 00:36
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Pharnakes posted:It occurs to me that if the Terrans are in this system with us we need to add some clauses to the Lunar Accords to deal with situations like this. If the jump network is actually more of a jump grid we need some kind of agreement in place to determine sovereignty. I would suggest a system that connects to both start points belongs to whoever can trace the shortest path to their excursive point back in Sol. This is literally what the treaty says already.
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Nov 20, 2017 00:45
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Pharnakes posted:It occurs to me that if the Terrans are in this system with us we need to add some clauses to the Lunar Accords to deal with situations like this. If the jump network is actually more of a jump grid we need some kind of agreement in place to determine sovereignty. I would suggest a system that connects to both start points belongs to whoever can trace the shortest path to their excursive point back in Sol. One problem with this approach is, what happens if we find a good system, spend time and resources building it up and then Terra finds a shorter route through their side of the network. Are we supposed to give up this hypothetical nice system we spent time and effort on? And what happens to every system down the chain? Do those also change hands? It was hilarious when we did it to the Terrans with the first treaty, but we don't really want it happening in reverse. Under this approach, to be sure that the system is ours we need to find and explore every jump-point n jumps out from the system, where n is the number of jumps to Ranginui. Right now that's just all the points in the Pit and Graveyard systems, but when we get further out, that's a lot of jump points to explore. Also what happens when the distance is the same number of jumps? We at least need some mechanism to resolve things like that if we choose this approach. Fray posted:This is literally what the treaty says already. How does it handle a new, shorter path being found? edit: Found the treaty. Depending on how the language is interpreted it's possible that it has these problems. It makes exceptions for "settlements that had already begun before a link was discovered". If this means only settlements are exceptions then the rest of the system (and by definition all systems down the chain) might change ownership. I assume this was thoroughly lawyered out in the discord or thread, but I don't remember how it went. Luna Accords posted:
Anta fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 00:48
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Same number of jumps away is a shared system, a new shorter route from the other side's territory is a blindspot that I expect will cause another Rangi Crisis if/when it happens.
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Nov 20, 2017 00:58
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Not Alex posted:Who needs their help? As predicted the aliens have a higher tech level than us, if either side decides to escalate this we may need numbers while we reverse engineer the salvage. Edit: That and Terra's ships are already generally weaker individually and more suited for screening. Given how hostile space seems to be they'll probably acquire advanced alien salvage of their own eventually, but we should take advantage of the situation until then. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 01:14
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Use the Shiva battle as evidence that our spinal lasers are the most important weapon on the battlefield and have Earth ships die in droves as meatshields to protect them.
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Nov 20, 2017 01:17
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A point to consider is that we may want salvage ships with the support train as standard. More salvage ships is less combat ships but we already ran into issues post-IC war with our technology leaking from wrecks that we couldn't clean up fast enough Technology leakage cuts both ways and what I really don't want to see is a variant of The Pit alien's Iron Dukes with the addition of our 45cm spinals
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Nov 20, 2017 02:00
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Out of curiosity, what does the interstellar jump map look like now?
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Nov 20, 2017 02:25
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It hasn't changed since the Pit/Graveyard decision post.
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Nov 20, 2017 03:39
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Okay, just asking stuff because I'm not an Aurora player so this is all unknown to me. Are jump connections arbitrary in length? Is that a spatially accurate map or just a map of connections?
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Nov 20, 2017 03:44
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Synthbuttrange posted:Okay, just asking stuff because I'm not an Aurora player so this is all unknown to me. Are jump connections arbitrary in length? Is that a spatially accurate map or just a map of connections? Systems don’t have positions really, and all jumps are instantaneous. So it’s just a connection map.
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Nov 20, 2017 03:52
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Don't really think planning massive genocides, annexations, and enslavement is in order for now, especially as we don't know why they're hostile and so much in this interstellar world is unknown and crazy. Every single alien civilization that we're encountered evidence of aside from this one has gotten utterly annihilated for reasons that are probably space cthulus. Maybe they know something we don't about how that happens and staying hidden in their space and killing anyone that comes poking around is the only way they can ensure their safety? Even for more mundane reasons we know nothing about their government and how complicit their average citizen is with the response we've encountered so far. I'm not saying we should try to peacefully contact them for the nth time or whatever, they're our enemies and we're effectively at war with them so they should be dealt with accordingly. But if after realizing they can't snuff us out they decide to reach out to us we should listen to the explanation they give us. And then probably expect them to pay reparations for the way they treated us and to ensure our safety should they ever try this again, which probably means they give us access to their apparently superior technology. Rawkking fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 05:17
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If they really are just killing everything that comes near them in order to remain hidden then that means they are so terrified of discovery that: 1. They'll hit our task force with everything they can ASAP to try and prevent us from getting word back to our own people that aliens live in/around this nebula. 2. After they capture/destroy all enemy ships they'll try and find out where their homeworld is, since a missing task force is still going to prompt investigation. 3. The only way to be sure that no one comes looking for those missing ships is if the civilization that sent them is completely wiped out. So if they are willing to genocide an entire species to stay hidden I doubt they are going to stop attacking after one or two defeats. You're talking complete military defeat, total occupation, years of fighting insurgencies, and re-writing their culture from the ground up.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:39
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RA Rx posted:Once we've monopolized the wreck it's time to consider genociding these aliens together with the UT. If we end up with a more modern fleet than they have we may be able to leverage that advantage to gain more of the spoils from cooperating in annexing alien territory. Or we could defeat the Terrans and not have to worry about being stabbed in the back while we fight aliens.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:21
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Nevets posted:If they really are just killing everything that comes near them in order to remain hidden then that means they are so terrified of discovery that: No, they wouldn't need to literally find the home planet of any species that ends up in their home turf and slaughter everyone there because it's the only way to be sure. They don't even need to be completely terrified of the dimensional horrors either, they could just be the level of unnerved with them we are and have some bit of knowledge we don't about how the "incursions" that the facility talked about can be avoided by their seeming strategy. With how adapted they are to the nebula both at hiding in it and fighting in it I could see them managing to survive through a few of these rises and falls of civilizations we've seen evidence of. The flavor text of this system Saros provided us about strange signals but nothing found and with technological advantage they have I could see a system like this being viewed by a galactic empire as some kind of space bermuda triangle where nothing is found (because the pit aliens good at hiding due to their baffling and sensor tech and the nebula) except for when ships just disappear mysteriously, with the end result being people deciding to just leave this seemingly haunted system alone. Or did you mean that if my theory is right they might try to genocide us now? Because yeah, that might happen since we managed to stumble upon one of their installations, survived their attack, and presumably got word out. They might give up on their strategy if it keeps failing though, electing to risk whatever increased chance of annihilation by the horrors interacting with us might bring instead of dealing with the more immediate consequences of being at war with us. Who knows, maybe after we secure the system they'll formally contact us and tersely demand we leave the system and leave them alone, and then we can press them for sweet sweet alien lore and technology. Rawkking fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 06:59
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They might just be assholes. If they really wanted to be left alone they'd flip their active sensors on and off while moving forward (in lieu of there being warning shots), or something else suitably threatening, to get us to leave. Attacking a strange species on first contact is an invitation to genocide, we met them peacefully, and they tried to kill us without talking despite repeated attempts to deescalate. How can we ever trust them? We cannot afford such a danger so close to our home star. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 09:34
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Also we need to start cooperating more with earth. We just simply need to cause yknow we're not facing a nebulous threat a thousand years from now from warp demons where we have room to maneuver and win over earth before anything happens. We're facing a hostile advanced species that lives two jumps from our home system! We can only win if we work together.
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Nov 20, 2017 10:56
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Synthbuttrange posted:Okay, just asking stuff because I'm not an Aurora player so this is all unknown to me. Are jump connections arbitrary in length? Is that a spatially accurate map or just a map of connections? The map is just a representation since jumps don't have any length. However... what matters is the distance of the jump point itself to its mother star (or your nearest planet). So if a jump point is located somewhere in the inner system on both ends, the neighbouring system will effectively be closer than a system which jump points are located much further from their stars. For example, I think Nova Sol's planets are closer to Earth than Ranginui's planets to Mars. This map doesn't show that distance however. (But Aurora has an option to show effective distances between stars.)
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Nov 20, 2017 11:44
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Alright. So theoretically there could be any number of jumps between Nova Sol and the Pit? But more likely given the setting that it's between 1-3 jumps away? And that map has no bearing on the likelyhood of connections between the Pit and the Graveyard?
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Nov 20, 2017 11:49
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 Saros posted:First up: What strategic course of action does the fleet take? 1B and 2B are chosen for the course of action. The fleet will attempt to cripple the Shiva until it is no longer combat capable and then secure the Unknown -> Pit Jump point. 9 Jan, 0647hrs  The damaged destroyers continue to withdraw while the cruisers turn around and return to engage the Shiva.  Warspite and Postmodern firing solutions are having some unpleasant visitors cut holes in their armor...  At 300k km the cruisers begin to paint the Shiva with target locks, unfortunately the Nebula is interfering as usual and it's ECM is still active.  Stand by to repel boarders!  The ships close to 240k km and both sides appear to have found the range.   Four particle beams reach out from the Shiva and one connects with Warspite. The Martian fleet returns fire but the hit chances are abysmal and at this range the single 15cm laser from Postmodern firing solutions that does connect only does 1 damage. The decision is made to close the range to improve both damage and accuracy of the ship mounted lasers as well as bring the high power microwaves into range. Ten seconds pass as the 15cm laser cycle again.   Unfortunately only a single hit strikes home for minimal damage.  Passing 200k km Warspite takes two internal hits from the alien weapons but reports no damage, her tough construction shrugging off the internal explosions.  Passing 150k km Warspite takes three hits from particle beams.  The shock of the hits ruptures an internal fuel tank but her armor remains intact. Return fire strikes the Shiva but no penetrations are reported.   Another desultory exchange of fire results in no real damage to either side as the Warspite again shakes off the hits and the fleets lasers merely scratch the armor of the Shiva. As the ships close the laser damage is increasing however!   As the range closes inside 100k km the damage ramps up dramatically on both sides. An active sensor on the Shiva winks out as several hits penetrate into holed sections of it's armor and Warspite shudders as more beams find their way through her armor.  Alarms ring out across the two cruisers, Breach breach!   Internal explosions wrack the Warspite and wreck her flag bridge and ECCM.  The capacitors are working hard but the Spinal lasers incredible power is hampered by their long charge times.  Hit rates are up to a whole 37%!  You have a lot of 15cm rapid fire lasers and they are chewing through the Shiva at a rapid pace, no more internal hits yet... The fleet charges into point blank range to give the Autocannon banks on the Ark Royal classes an opportunity to fire and they certainly do.   Warspite takes more hits but is still combat capable, her fire control switches to the backup unit as her primary is torn apart by an internal explosion.  I'll say this for the Ark Royal class, they certainly achieve maximum dakka.    It goes on like this for a little bit, the Shiva wracked by a continuous stream on explosions.   It fights back as well as it can, defiant to the very last.  In the end the incredible torrent of fire is just too much for the ship and it comes apart as internal explosions snap its spine. Seconds later the two Naga class ships explode as well, they must have detonated scuttling charges as as there was no fire directed their way.   The Warspite is badly damaged with 46 casualties but should be able to be mostly repaired.  Warspite is detached toward the support ships and the rest of the fleet heads for the jump point the Shiva emerged from to secure it.  Reports on the boarders of the two cruisers are still incoming but early indications are that the ships internal security are plenty sufficient to deal with the small number of boarders.  There are no hostile contacts insystem anywhere but there is likely at least one disarmed Imp class at large. The Farseeker is dispatched to investigate the second unknown jump point. Gen. Yooper has a suspicion it may lead to somewhere in Terran space. Saros fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 12:33
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 Well then.
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Nov 20, 2017 12:52
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