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Boy, I hope Facility's as eager to throw multi-megaton terror weapons at the crabs as Speedy is.
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Feb 2, 2018 10:16
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Not Alex posted:Sure, it's a fine tombstone... but could you add a spinal laser to it? Asking the important questions here. Without either a missile battery or an oversized spinal weapon it's just not a respectable Martian tomb at all. Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 10:43
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Not Alex posted:Sure, it's a fine tombstone... but could you add a spinal laser to it?
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Feb 2, 2018 11:18
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mossyfisk posted:That... is a shockingly large and dangerous force compared to what the Fartcrabs have thrown at us so far. Sure, we're not Speedy - but they must be huge to assemble something like that. Especially one they were basically guaranteed to lose. I suspect this was a sort of scripted event, and we'll only have to fight smaller forces. With this information it seems to be clear we should avoid moving onto the next system from the Pit if we win against Terra, provoking the crabs further with a counter invasion should be avoided for now. Let's try to keep the Pit itself though.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:01
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RA Rx posted:I suspect this was a sort of scripted event, and we'll only have to fight smaller forces. Yes, cowering under the bed and hoping the bad guys don't find us is a long and storied strategy with numerous successes to its name.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:11
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I was all in favor of invading the Crabs before this event (and still am, till we are informed by Titan). Once we are we need to parlay for an interview with Speedy on the Crabs. We need to work out how strong they are locally and galactically, and how far they can project their forces. If we are going to kick a superpower in the shins (more so than seizing some unpopulated system on first contact) that could wipe us out with ease then we need to work out whether attacking their local strong points and settlements will mean our extinction. Just the Pit jump point we know is theirs though, if we find any fourth point I'd be in favor of risking it. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 18:15
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I'm pretty sure we're playing AI War and the only reason we haven't gotten a 100+ BB deathfleet is the Krabs don't think we're worth it yet. If we start aggressively taking their territory and/or blowing their poo poo up, they may revise that assessment. But yeah having a chat with Speedy to confirm this is absolutely necessary.
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Feb 2, 2018 18:16
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While sobering, and worthy of much consideration later, this changes nothing in regards to our immediate plans and goals. If anything, this emphasizes how important it is that humanity be united, now more than ever. Kick the tires on this unification/annexation/subjugation plan, and let's get this poo poo done. Solidify our foundation first, then we can start looking at the fCrabs, and whomever is pulling their strings.
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Feb 3, 2018 01:48
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Feb 3, 2018 01:56
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We have clearly gone from Freespace 2 to AI War. Though if we're going to talk to Uncle Speedy, we're going to need a lot better stealth tech so he doesn't have to fend off another doomfleet. So what about those Penguins?
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Feb 3, 2018 08:40
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H'm. Unfortunate, but unless "Speedy" was destroyed in that final blast, not an irrecoverable setback. Yes, as others have said, we need to re-establish contact as soon as possible; see if the TFS Internationale can be raised? If "Speedy" does live, I imagine he'll want his old conversational partner back.
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Feb 3, 2018 08:48
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Serpentis posted:H'm. Unfortunate, but unless "Speedy" was destroyed in that final blast, not an irrecoverable setback. We ain't going to know about this in-character until the Internationale comes home and tells us about it, so... yes? Probably? Also, the final blasts were very clearly Speedy nuking the piss out of the Crabs' escape pods, and if he was dead, the surviving warships wouldn't bother avoiding the inner system.
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Feb 3, 2018 10:03
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Saros posted:In slightly less than seven minutes one hundred and two of the huge ships perished and the horrifying bombardment quietly ceased. Roughly a minute later a dozen equally massive explosions lit up across the debris area, the average radiation exposure from the final blasts at any one spot amounting well over the deadly dose for any unshielded living creature. The awestruck crew watched in silence as the graveyard of the alien ships slowly dispersed before turning one by one to the display of their guardian, still pacing then silently and the six remaining alien ships chasing the Internationale taking a very long detour around the inner solar system. The text shows no blast on Speedy, just a second series of equally massive explosions (similar weapon effects as used by Speedy the first time) over the debris area he just created, where he reduces any escape pods or other survivors into their constituent elements. The debris area could be interpreted as Speedy's crash site, especially given how Speedy's first attack seemed to be a single, sudden salvo, and there being a full 1-minute cease in fire made it unclear where the last salvo originated from. However if we look at the seven minutes of the battleships dying Speedy obviously fired multiple salvos before the last one. Furthermore, other than the size of the explosions and their cadence, the paragraph also points back after the final set of explosions to the graveyard of the alien ships, and this is further confirmed by the evasive action of the six remaining Crab ships. So, it seems worshiping Facility was the correct move. Speedy might want a few followers too. These religions have a lot to offer, especially if the gods are fully repaired. It's not like we have to be a theocracy and always have to do what God says... these Gods are more of the kind of relatives we constantly pester for rewards in return for TNE. Might want to doublecheck before we let them get back to full function though. --- Hmmm, what's 800m km divided by 60 seconds... that's faster than light. Either Speedy sent off combat drones or programmable missiles to fight the aliens or he's got some kind of FTL munitions. Or is there any other way he could stop fighting them, decide to sterilize them, and have the effects show up a minute later? I suppose it might have just been a coincidence, but that seems doubtful. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 11:21
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The real question we need to be asking here is not how speedy just annihilated a fleet that united humanity couldn't have taken 1% of, but who killed speedy 
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Feb 3, 2018 13:24
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Pharnakes posted:The real question we need to be asking here is not how speedy just annihilated a fleet that united humanity couldn't have taken 1% of, but who killed speedy Why do people think Speedy is dead?
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Feb 3, 2018 13:33
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Pharnakes posted:The real question we need to be asking here is not how speedy just annihilated a fleet that united humanity couldn't have taken 1% of, but who killed speedy Nobody killed Speedy. Speedy is entirely fine. The atomic hellfire was entirely one-sided, and Speedy was on the giving side.
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Feb 3, 2018 13:37
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Reminder: Earth found several inactive Collaboration fighter drones. They "didn't seem to realise what they had," which is a pretty fantastic thing right now. How can we leverage the current situation in Sol to get our hands on those?
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Feb 3, 2018 13:37
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VanSandman posted:Why do people think Speedy is dead? Sorry I didn't mean finished speedy off just now I meant who knocked him down onto the planet and crippled him in the first place. It was  wasn't it.
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Feb 3, 2018 13:40
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I'm wondering how many missiles Speedy has left. If he had any sort of manufacturing capacity he would have been able to bootstrap himself off the planet. We shouldn't assume he's invulnerable.
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Feb 4, 2018 00:35
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Being able to manufacture new warheads wouldn't necessarily mean he'd be able to repair himself as a whole, but yeah it wouldn't hurt to ask and maybe offer some help. I mean, he's been there for millions of years, he pretty much has to be making new warheads because the fissiles in his original complement would all have cooked off into uselessness between then and now. Unless the Collaboration doesn't use fissiles and rolls with pure antimatter or something even more insane, which is very possible. Saros, could we tell what kind of reaction was going on in those explosions?
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Feb 4, 2018 00:55
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Remember that TNEs are a strictly fixed resource in this game. There might not be enough resources on the planet to build a decent runabout for Speedy. And there almost certainly aren't enough to repair speedy in the whole system. In Aurora expand or die is a natural law.
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Feb 4, 2018 01:31
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Nevets posted:I'm wondering how many missiles Speedy has left. If he had any sort of manufacturing capacity he would have been able to bootstrap himself off the planet. We shouldn't assume he's invulnerable. Can't be that bad if he's got enough to sterilize escape pods. Maybe that's supposed to act as a deterrent though, no need for the Crabs to send rescue and it fluffs the size of his armory. Or Speedy could be bluffing about being crashed, and is happy about where he is, though I doubt it. He's probably able to mine materials, but not on the level he needs to leave in style (he can send drones off to leave), and he's probably not too unhappy about his current location. He seems happy taking care of the crablets, even if he's starved for news and higher conversation that isn't with his autonomous children. We need this god on our side. Preferably lobotomized and in an indefinite tour of service to Mars, but then again, I trust Speedy more than the Martian Congress, and I don't think we'd ever get one over on him in our present state. We also need to repair Facility as soon as economically practical, for her own sake as much as ours. When we learn about Speedy the first thing we should do is go and seek out contact with him. Hopefully that doesn't ruin the truce he has with the Crab people, but we need to negotiate, to trade mining capacity for technology. Also, we should leave a genetically viable sample of humanity with him, just in case. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Feb 4, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 07:44
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pun pundit posted:Reminder: Earth found several inactive Collaboration fighter drones. They "didn't seem to realise what they had," which is a pretty fantastic thing right now. How can we leverage the current situation in Sol to get our hands on those? If they didn't figure it out yet, they will as soon as they get logs from the Internationale.
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Feb 4, 2018 09:03
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Gee, sure is good that they won't be getting those then. Or at least, they won't be getting them without some fancy spywork which takes time and effort, time and effort they're too busy spending on killing each other. Good golly, can you imagine how hosed we would be if Earth wasn't actively engaged in a civil war right now?
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Feb 4, 2018 17:18
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We'll probably know which side was right soon enough, when the first newfleet battle for naval supremacy of Sol begins. Ideologies and political movements need such objective reference points to grow, even if they sometimes provide the wrong lesson. If we clearly win, DoS was right. If we clearly lose, then Crabs First was right. Honestly, things will probably still go to hell if it's a draw, but that would be such an unstable situation one can't really tell, and besides hedging one's bets isn't fair. If it's not a clear outcome we'll just need more time. Too bad we'll only get a sample of one DoS plan, with no variations or controls. It'll have to be judged on the single outcome. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Feb 4, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 18:08
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No, Unification of Humanity is always right. It doesn't matter what else is going on, with an existential threat looming Humanity needs to have a united front, a united purpose. The Crabs First faction would have Humanity fight the Crustacean Menace with one hand tied behind our backs.
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Feb 4, 2018 18:28
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CoffeeQaddaffi posted:No, Unification of Humanity is always right. It doesn't matter what else is going on, with an existential threat looming Humanity needs to have a united front, a united purpose. The Crabs First faction would have Humanity fight the Crustacean Menace with one hand tied behind our backs. And with over 100 more fartcrab ships to fight. Also as much as shooting UT ships means humanity as a whole has fewer ships, our newfleet designs were mostly untested other than a couple minor engagements in the Pit. These "shakedowns in force" will provide the impetus and ideas for the next generation of fleet-vessel that will go forward into the stars.
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Feb 4, 2018 18:45
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CoffeeQaddaffi posted:No, Unification of Humanity is always right. It doesn't matter what else is going on, with an existential threat looming Humanity needs to have a united front, a united purpose. The Crabs First faction would have Humanity fight the Crustacean Menace with one hand tied behind our backs. Even if you hold the rare view that losing to the UT is better than peace, neither side winning will mean the unification of mankind, not unless MAD is dealt with. At the best, one side winning means that side becoming clearly dominant. Fleet garrisons to defend against each other will still almost certainly be necessary. MAD prevents total victory for now. Crabs First meant improving relations and reducing fleet garrisons and sharing tech, and would've meant being far stronger up to the medium term. And as for Putina wanting to rule humanity... every respectable great power has a plan of some sort lying around (usually in public), whether it's developing "full-spectrum dominance", "a Chinese century", or "leading an international revolution". Just desiring to become a true hegemon, planning it and acting on it aggressively are all different things. Putina was a dovish politician who desired to rule humanity. (I doubt she will maintain her positions, even if she's alive for much longer.) Whether she harbored ambitious plans or not, we have to judge her by her actions, not a thirst for power almost as prevalent in the halls of Olympus Mons as it is in Brussels and Crabtopia. There's also the third much less likely option of a severe dieback or extinction. It's been said Saros isn't running this with a safety net. The best we can hope for if we win the next fleet battle is the naval domination of Sol System (naval supremacy is theoretically possible, but vanishingly unlikely unless this is escalated to the point that the use of IPBMs becomes likely, as it'd have to involve destroying both eventual reinforcements from Nova Sol and the Terran garrison itself), and the subsequent political domination of humanity by Mars, which would gradually allow for a replacement of MAD and the eventual unification of mankind. Or we could let any gains we make ride, escalate, beat up any reinforcements and Earth Fleet, and then immediately siege Earth for that sweet, sweet factory lucre and smaller garrisons in Sol. Pulling that off without any IPBMs going off would be truly, deeply, awe-inspiring. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Feb 4, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 19:35
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I don't want to be too optimistic but I think we might have a chance of that, because currently the fleet and the ipbms are controlled by totally different factions. If we can wipe out the fleet we will force whoever is ruling Terra, be that Putina or Earth first to the table. IPBMs are no substitute for the power projection of a proper fleet, and likewise without IPBMs the UT navy hardliners can't prevent us from wiping the fleet out if our initial engagements go well.
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Feb 4, 2018 20:40
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Assuming we defeat the UT Navy without losing most of Mar's Navy in the process, we will be a powerful but dangerous position. Earth needs offworld resources to survive, but without a fleet to guard their colonies & transports they are vulnerable to crab attack. Mars will have 2 options on how to deal with the situation: Siege: Try to strongarm UT into becoming a Martian client-state via seizure/destruction of shipyards and a naval blockade. If this doesn't provoke a MAD response Mars can dictate terms, dismantle or occupy PDC's, and unify the Solar System. Of course even if the government capitulates it could result in pushing all the moderate civilians into the Earth First camp and cause a popular uprising which overthrows the Putina government, seizing control of the IPM's and launching an all out attack on Mars while they still can. Commerce: Offer to keep Earth supplied with the resources it needs. Only supply enough to keep their civilian economy running, not enough to fund any expansion or re-militarization. With a stagnant economy the more ambitious and capable UT citizens will emigrate off-world, leaving the old guard bureaucrats to run things even further into the ground. Once the UT becomes totally dependent on Martian aid we can start talking about mutual disarmament of IPM's in exchange for continued (or expanded) aid to their slowly crumbling state. Without a UT defensive fleet Mars doesn't need it's IPM's anymore anyway. This is the longer, more expensive option but doesn't carry as much risk. In either case, Earth must not be allowed to re-arm. Doing so would risk repeating the whole war in 20 or 30 years.
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Feb 5, 2018 18:45
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Nevets posted:Commerce: Offer to keep Earth supplied with the resources it needs. Only supply enough to keep their civilian economy running, not enough to fund any expansion or re-militarization. There is literally no way the Terrans would prioritise their civilian economy over their military.
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Feb 5, 2018 19:12
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Option 3: Surrender to the The only True Course.
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Feb 5, 2018 19:31
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Friend Commuter posted:There is literally no way the Terrans would prioritise their civilian economy over their military. When people start starving or the TNE fueled terraforming projects start getting further neglected and failing, you bet they'll be putting any taxdollars possible into the civilian economy. Not doing so started this entire Earth First protests and sparked off the coup to begin with. Besides, Terra needs the resources and the IPBMs only threaten out to Mars, past that and they'd still need either a carrot or a stick to earn cooperation. Remove the stick and they can only offer good trading relations to get what they need.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:06
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scavy131 posted:When people start starving or the TNE fueled terraforming projects start getting further neglected and failing, you bet they'll be putting any taxdollars possible into the civilian economy. Not doing so started this entire Earth First protests and sparked off the coup to begin with. Besides, Terra needs the resources and the IPBMs only threaten out to Mars, past that and they'd still need either a carrot or a stick to earn cooperation. Remove the stick and they can only offer good trading relations to get what they need. If anything you just proved the contrary point you were trying to make. The fact that they WERE prioritizing their military to the point of creating an Earth Firster movement goes to show how much they really don't care. Ultimately the Hardliner faction for sure will rather fight for their resources (case in point: Ceres) than work out any sort of trade deal with Mars/the system that results in a declawed UT. Even Putina was directing resources away from earth to flail headlong into FTL/other systems with little to no regard for their own civilians who Mars has tried at every turn to actually protect.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:19
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Yes, the current Terran government is incompetent and kleptocratic. Getting rid of them it's the entire point of this debacle, either directly or via a popular movement. Nothing is officially stopping Earth from plowing their limited resources into imperialism, but if they suddenly just let the ice caps melt and the people starve to keep affording a navy, holy poo poo 10 billion angry proles will make Earth First look like goddamn pacifists.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:33
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Crazycryodude posted:Yes, the current Terran government is incompetent and kleptocratic. Getting rid of them it's the entire point of this debacle, either directly or via a popular movement. Nothing is officially stopping Earth from plowing their limited resources into imperialism, but if they suddenly just let the ice caps melt and the people starve to keep affording a navy, holy poo poo 10 billion angry proles will make Earth First look like goddamn pacifists. Welllll... not really. The UT Navy is pretty bad, true, but that doesn't extend to the civilian government. The current Terran Government was actively trying to purge the the incompetents and kleptocrats. The government most likely to emerge as a result of our propaganda is a group of painfully competent kleptocrats (the incompetents having all been killed off). If we win thoroughly enough to install our own government, we'll probably have to send Martians to staff at least all the high ranked positions. The Terran Government has been of above average competence, but it has had to pick from a selection of terrible options in regards to its navy. Its military has been riddled by the previously mentioned kleptocrats whose danger should be obvious to everyone now that they're very openly trying to coup the civilian government. Naturally, the civilian government was reluctant to give its highest ranked naval officers new ships. Also naturally, it was reluctant to allow the few more advanced vessels it had to leave the system since they're commanded by the most loyal officers and were clearly the main thing preventing a coup earlier. Its also reasonable to infer that UT was reluctant to deploy a significant percentage of its total tonnage outsystem for fear that the-actively-antagonistic admiral would take that as an opportunity to establish their own political entity. LLSix fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 22:32
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You know that the Nova Sol JP guard coulkd've been some nobody that was shuffled away to a dead end posting and it was just luck that he got to be the first UT squad to face off against the Fartcrabs. Assuming the enemy is incompetent is a surefire way to see a Terran flag flying over Mars.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:24
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LLSix posted:Welllll... not really. The UT Navy is pretty bad, true, but that doesn't extend to the civilian government. Uh...but it's still being run by assholes. Remember the Putina interlude by Serpentis? She also thinks of us as rebellious colonies and is just as power-hungry as the hardliners. This whole argument's kind of a moot point because of that...
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Feb 6, 2018 00:06
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Dr. Snark posted:Uh...but it's still being run by assholes. Well, yes, of course she's power-hungry. Find me a head of government that isn't.
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Feb 6, 2018 00:12
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Friend Commuter posted:Well, yes, of course she's power-hungry. Find me a head of government that isn't. ...Or head of a church for that matter. Just dropped by to remind everyone to support me for Fleet Archon and also that even in these trying times the Church of Facility is always accepting new members.
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Feb 6, 2018 01:27
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