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Right now Earth is going to be willing to forgive IC war crimes more than Martian ones because of the pre-existing trade relationship between Earth / IC and the ingrained animosity between Earth / Mars. Plus turning 1/4 million civilians (children included) into unwitting suicide bombers is way worse them unintentionally (but not unknowingly) risking collateral damage while striking a military shipyard. Politically, Earth leadership is looking for an excuse to join the war on the IC's side before the Sorium infrastructure is permanently damaged, but right now there isn't popular support for an aggressive war in support of an exploitative regime. If both sides start hitting civilian targets intentionally the best Mars can hope for is a negotiated cease fire, worst case scenario is that Earth joins on the IC's side to ensure a swift victory & uninterrupted Sorium shipments while downplaying any IC atrocities as exaggerated and/or proportionate responses. In either case any post-war negotiated peace will involve the ceding of all Sorium interests to the IC, because lack of total Sorium control is an existential threat to the IC, and the only way to prevent a repeat of the same conflict 20 years later. The best outcome of this war would be to quickly force an IC surrender through a combination of stock devaluation as previously mentioned, and holding a strong enough military position that Mars can threaten to cripple Sorium production for decades if the war starts going badly. The ship will start sinking due to the commerce raiding, and when Mars threatens to sink it the rats will all jump.
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Jul 23, 2017 21:17
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 23:50 |
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In case Saros is/will be looking for player input on Pluto policy, here are some frameworks people can vote on or build proposals from: Lowest Rung Nothing gained from Pluto will help us in the short term to win the IC/Mars conflict, so lock it down & wait until the war is over. Put the IC POW's & scientists on ice, issue a gag order on all things Pluto, and post a scout to alert us to any further IC interest. We can play with our new toys after we crush the IC. Holyoke Send a Martian team of scientists & diplomats to Pluto, a small detachment of ships for defense, and construct a PDC or two ASAP. Tell nobody what we found, claim any IC scientific interest was a pretext for establishing an unauthorized hidden military outpost that we have now commandeered. Don't dig up the alien, since it will probably start shouting "Hello!" at anyone within range once it's not buried under miles of ice & rock. Catfish Smile Tell Earth leadership about the discovery, offer to setup a joint Earth/Mars research mission, defended by a joint Earth/Mars fleet. Claim IC knew about the alien facility and was keeping it a secret from everyone. Cross our fingers & hope they are dumb enough to shoot at Earth ships while trying to retake the site.
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Jul 27, 2017 00:29
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Also the IC doesn't know we only managed to salvage 1 of their missile boats. By now they've recognized the munitions that we fired as their own design, maybe we can bluff them into thinking there are more captured salvo boats just waiting to unload on them.
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Jul 28, 2017 03:38
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Aethernet posted:It would never have enough guns to deal with the barrage tactics we've seen. You'd need a fleet of them to make it work. Which is production not used for our own missile carriers. So far the barrage tactics are only successful in making our frigates combat ineffective most of the time. What about a dedicated anti-missile boat that has extra armor & redundant systems, plus eventually some reverse engineered IC shield tech? Use them in groups of two or three as picket ships to attract & withstand a full on barrage. If the targeted ship is damaged but still combat effective it can fall back to join the main fleet as a secondary line of PD, if not it will still probably have 1 engine operational so it can make it back to the nearest shipyard on it's own. Either way the barraging ships should not have time to reload box launchers for a second volley before Martian anti-ship fighters and missiles hit them.
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Jul 31, 2017 17:49
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Your deployment time is 3 months. Try changing it to 0.1 months.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:00
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Really good armor & cannons, strong patriotic socialist population, commerce raiding tactics, primary war goal is to ensure fuel supply... I don't think we're Italy 
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Aug 3, 2017 02:22
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Here's a proposal for an up-armored Sagan style picket ship:code:
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Aug 3, 2017 16:59
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Type 8 & Levy Anti-Missile fighter screens & ridiculously durable picket ships for everybody!
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Aug 8, 2017 16:17
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xthetenth posted:The IC weapon being deployed over Pluto was dealt with at the absolute last second but was safely stopped before it got into range. More examples of the IC flaunting it's disregard for universal basic human rights by using a supposedly peaceful scientific expedition as cover for a hidden WMD launch facility. Thank god our boys in red were able to stop them before they could complete whatever they were planning. I just hope none of our brave service members were lost in the operation.
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Aug 8, 2017 18:12
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If Earth is all about carriers extra PD will still be useful, maybe not as useful as a dedicated space superiority fighter or a ship with some anti-fighter tuned fire control & laser turrets, but it's a good balance between our current dilemma & the anticipated future one.
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Aug 8, 2017 19:30
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Yeah, B5 was one of the few scifi shows where artificial gravity wan't just handwaved away. Fun fact: the smaller Earth Alliance ships don't have rotating sections, and on the rare occasion you get to see the action on the bridge of those ships everyone is strapped into chairs.
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Aug 9, 2017 15:27
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Realistically I doubt it would be valuable on medium-large ships. You are going to bury your bridge (and other livable areas) in the deepest part of the ship possible anyway, so the likelihood of a hull breach penetrating that far in that doesn't kill everyone anyway is pretty small, and wearing pressure suits is going to slow down reaction times and increase the risk of fat fingering buttons.
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Aug 9, 2017 17:34
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1. Topple 2. Scorch
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Aug 10, 2017 15:22
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Right now Earth has alot more to lose than Mars. If it looks like we won the war with the IC only to have them swoop in and claim all the spoils for themselves, there are going to be alot of people on Mars chanting for "fire and fury". Most of Earth's population doesn't give a poo poo who sells them Sorium as long as it doesn't cost too much, and would much rather take a slow diplomatic approach to resolving an IC revolution/balkanization than to try for a territory grab. Just make sure a joint Earth/Mars mission to Pluto is in there somewhere and they'll stand down. Bottom line is Earth is full of lazy entitled cowards who just need to understand how far good old fashioned Martian patriots will go when pushed.
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Aug 10, 2017 19:48
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That proposal looks ok, though I'd suggest a equal 3 way Sorium split between Mars, Earth, and whoever ends up winning the revolution.  It might be us.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:40
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An "independent" Titan will be really bad for the IC in the long run. All Mars needs to do is start secretly subsidizing their government and in return they start dumping sorium on the open market priced near or even below the cost of production. A sorium glut will drive IC profits down & investors will start dumping the stock. Mars uses a few shell companies to acquire controlling stakes in as many interests as possible, prices go back to normal, and now Mars has an economic WMD it can drop whenever the IC starts things up again.
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Aug 14, 2017 15:28
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Anybody on either side who doesn't want a full scale Mars-Earth war will try and keep the IC going. It's hard to keep a detente going if there are only 2 players, eventually one will be in a slightly stronger position & think they can wipe the other out. As long as there is a moderately powerful third player they will side with the weaker party to prevent a clear victor, since any total victory will leave them facing a singular powerful opponent with no way to win.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:58
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Coffeehitler posted:Another downside I thought of for a Titan Free State staying independent is that IC effectively surrounds it, I don't think this is really a concern. At the moment the IC fleet is so badly beaten they won't do anything with it but defend Jupiter. Smaller raiding parties might be a concern but after the revolt on Titan I'll bet the IC is on a defensive footing and will be keeping all ships close to their bases to discourage further revolutions.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:30
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Half of Mar's natural satellites were destroyed. Unfortunately there aren't enough nukes in the entire Solar system to blow up even the smallest half of Jupiter's.
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Aug 14, 2017 23:40
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I don't think the AI is going to take kindly to people moving it away from the jump point it was created to monitor.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:19
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Best case scenario: Pluto AI was just checking to see if the wormhole still existed. Spacthulu noticed signals/readings/whatever on the other end of the wormhole, and either hijacked or somehow used the satellite's scans to force it open. Pluto AI is very sorry and now has proof that the Space UN is gone and will help us in any way it can. Free hoverboards and ice cream for everyone! Worst case scenario: Pluto AI is tricked us into announcing to the rest of the universe's abyssal horrors that we have evolved enough to be fun to play with.
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Aug 16, 2017 19:12
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We don't know if the gate is fully closed. It looks like there was definitely a massive space station right on the other side, and it sounds like there used to be one on our side too, if the facility is to be believed. It seems likely one or both space stations are what hold the wormhole open. The probe may have only triggered the operation of the remote station and isn't responsible for maintaining the open wormhole. The weapons fire on the wormhole's rim may be what collapsed it, and that may only be a temporary measure.
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Aug 16, 2017 20:01
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I think we just need to make our position clear. We can't stop Earth from opening Pandora's Box but if they don't keep a firm hand on the lid we won't be held responsible for all the nukes we have to lob to stop Cthulu or the Von Neuman machines or whatever other horros start to pour into our solar system.
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Aug 17, 2017 00:06
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Anyone on Titan living near the vicinity of military infrastructure should have thought about that before they were born into wage slavery.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:29
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I'll bet at this point IC engineers are desperately working on a way to field modify all their ships with a kill switch that fries all targetting electronics.
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Aug 19, 2017 00:21
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Nah, that was just Earth's newest boat, CVX Mothership. Should be finishing loading up the cryo trays soon.
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Aug 21, 2017 20:26
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Aurora construction takes a long time. Outfitting a shipyard to produce a new ship model can take 3-6 months, and construction times are often double that. You can speed up ship construction by pre-building engines & other designed systems planetside, but that will only shave maybe 25% off your times. Shipyard construction is very scalable, though. A shipyard with 2 slipways can build 2 ships at once, 3 slipways for 3 at once, etc, and it doesn't take a 3 slipway yard a full 3x as much time to re-tool as a 1 slipway yard. It's actually much easier to keep spitting out an older design than to re-tool and start rolling out new ones. A nice change from regular 4x's where you redesign & upgrade your entire fleet everytime you research Laser mkX.
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Aug 21, 2017 22:27
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That's the Leutenant-Director General.
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Aug 22, 2017 13:16
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In vanilla Aurora games Earth starts with enough TN deposits to let you build up a very good space insfrastructure & start mining other worlds, but even playing very conservatively you are going to start running low on some of the types of TNE's within 50-100 years, forcing you to expand to extrasolar worlds. Saros' Earth doesn't have access to the entire system's resources & has spent a huge amount building up a big fleet; they probably already have a couple types of elements whose mines have gone dry and are now relying on stockpiled supplies. From the description given it seems that Earth has become a Space Venezuela, burning through it's natural resources to provide an artificially high standard of living for it's citizens. (Kind of muddies the whole Sorium = crude oil analogue we had going.) Now that rationing and deprivation are on the horizon, the current leadership only has two choices to stay in power: blame all their problems on hostile foreign actors, or try and find new deposits to exploit. Seems like Earth was pursuing option 2, but the Mars/IC war might give it an excuse to blame us for all their woes.
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Aug 22, 2017 15:37
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Got to imagine they've tweaked / reinvented most sports to be played in 40% gravity and in cramped conditions. Not alot of free space in pressure domes to devote to a big grass field.
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Aug 22, 2017 20:34
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Have they done studies on what rising sea levels would do to Australia? I kind of wonder if everything (people, animals, plants, etc.) would just move inland when the seas rise. It's not like the continent is hurting for empty space.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:11
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Yea, but is it desert because that's the way God wants it, or is it desert because of prevailing weather patterns that will change with rising sea levels?
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Aug 22, 2017 21:19
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Zaodai posted:Saros, can I have my ship (the DDG More Missiles!) renamed "Titanic Space Bear"? Our adversaries are Vladimir Putin & Bill Gates, I think if you want to really scare them we should rename a couple of our ships "Eyeliner for Men" and "LibreOffice is Just as Good"
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Aug 23, 2017 21:18
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Crazycryodude posted:We really need to get extrasolar, though, letting earth build up any more lead than we absolutely have to could be devastating. What's the status of future law regarding territorial claims? The Solar system didn't used to be neatly divvied up, at one point there had to have been competing claims to significant bodies like the outer moons. I think any extra-solar land grabs are going to have to be regulated by a similar international law. If you control the jump point to another system do you 'own' the entire system? Can you control traffic through a jump point or are they considered 'international waters'? If you build a gate at a jump point can you charge for passage, and how much? If you just land on a body first do you own the entire body? Or is it the first nation to establish a significant facility? If you discover alien life, especially sentient life, how do you deal with it? Who deals with it, the discovering nation or an international committee? What rights do extra terrestrials have preventing exploitation or displacement? Are there multiple levels of sentience or is there just one line in the sand? Even if Earth has a jump start on us technologically, we could tie up the actual exploitation of extra-solar resources in international courts for years, maybe decades, until we get a clearly defined treaty that is acceptable.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:03
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Zore posted:And what, exactly, is stopping Earth from ignoring that and quietly exploiting extrasolar stuff anyways? It probably won't stop them, but it may slow them down. Private investment in questionably legal mining operations is going to be very low. Plus since we are in a state of MAD, the only way Earthers get to keep on breathing is if Martians don't see themselves on the path to extinction. If Earth can't be trusted to honor it's word, then when they eventually win the Cold War what's to stop them from turning Mars into one giant gulag? When faced with that prospect Martians would prefer taking their chances with the nuclear option, and Earth knows this.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:25
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Saros posted:Special note to Kommando and Another Otter. Both of you are still alive as I pulled you from your Type 8's before sending them off as it was probably going to be a pointless suicide mission. You are currently commanding a fighter squadron each in 3rd fleet.  Listen up pilots, this is mission is volunteer only. Anybody wearing a red shirt: thank you for volunteering.
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Aug 28, 2017 18:10
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Pash posted:Accept the Surrender. We need to get this over with ASAP so Earth does not have good ground to stand on for their "Peacekeeping" force. Yeah, I think alot of the unconditional surrender votes forgot about them. Accept If the revolutionaries are pissed about us letting the leadership go, remind them that they'll only be running to Jupiter, which is most likely just as fertile ground for popular uprisings as Saturn was. Better to let them go now & save the lives of more of your newly liberated brethren than to throw them away on a symbolic victory while the fight for self determination is only just beginning.
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Aug 30, 2017 15:26
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What about a compromise where the Triumvir surrenders into the custody of the approaching Terran fleet? He agrees to stand trial in an interplanetary criminal court for warcrimes or crimes against humanity or some such. The TFS gets a promise of justice. In the meanwhile he gets to keep on living in a very gilded cage while he pays very expensive lawyers to drag out the trial and get him acquitted. I doubt he'll be willing to risk being hanged by the proles while there's a possibility he can get away by throwing money at something. Mars washes it's hands of the whole affair, if he escapes it's the Terrans' fault, if he is acquitted it's the lawyers' fault, if he's found dead in his cell of an apparent suicide it's also the Terrans' fault.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:14
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xthetenth posted:The same Terrans whose designs on the TFS we're actively working to foil? No. They will use that against any trust the TFS has for us. It's in Terra's best interest to not execute him & piss off the IC, but they also want to keep the TFS they are trying to infiltrate pro-Terra, so they can't let him go. This means they stall, and we can pretend to be indignant that there isn't any progress being made on the trial to earn brownie points with the TFS. The triumvir is a hot potato right now, let Terra burn their hands trying to hold onto him.
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Aug 30, 2017 18:28
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 23:50 |
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Crazycryodude posted:We're towing Europa to Mars as part of reparations and making friends with all the sentient Space Dolphins that live inside. I actually did the math on this... 1,000,000 of our current technology tugs (AO Eberswalde) pulling an object the mass of Europa (4.799x10^19 Metric Tons) travelling from Jupitor's average orbit to Mar's average orbit (about 551,000,000 km) would require about 34,936,910 years; and consume 8.128*10^12 liters of fuel which equates out to about 4 billion metric tons of unrefined Sorium. Nevets fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 17:26
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