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Eshettar
May 9, 2013


I get that. What I don't get is why Sierra didn't. Nobody took a look at Cedric at some point during development and said "Okay, this is a problem. We can't possibly release the game like this."?

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Anime Reference
Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, it's an anime reference.



I imagine they meant to flesh his role out more later, and then later never came. Happens often enough in game dev.

Deathwind
Mar 3, 2013


In the original version Cedric wasn't really a problem, the issue came up once the CD version with it's... interesting... take on voice acting came along. To say more will have to wait for us to get to the game.

Yapping Eevee
Nov 12, 2011

STAND TOGETHER.
FIGHT WITH HONOR.
RESTORE BALANCE.

Eevees play for free.


Soiled Meat

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




Missing key moments to screencap? Fraps or otherwise capture the footage, then go through it and screencap at leisure.

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.

Xander77 posted:

Missing key moments to screencap? Fraps or otherwise capture the footage, then go through it and screencap at leisure.

Technical difficulties the entire night. ScummVM, it turns out, doesn't like Sierra VGA titles. It straight up skips entire audio clips completely at random. I also had far more trouble than I should have with capturing the game at my desired resolution instead of being upscaled to my monitor's native.

I had a third of the game recorded and had to scrap all of it because of the first issue.

Mikl
Nov 8, 2009

Vote shit sandwich or the shit sandwich gets it!


DoubleNegative looked at the ruined footage, sighed wistfully, and turned off the computer. "No more for today."

Fat Samurai
Feb 16, 2011

To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.



This was my second adventure game, right after Monkey Island. The design philosophy completely blindsided me, to put it midly.

Runcible Cat
May 28, 2007

A post? Never!!

Pillbug

Fat Samurai posted:

This was my second adventure game, right after Monkey Island. The design philosophy completely blindsided me, to put it midly.

I'm pretty sure this is the one and only KQ game I've ever played. If it is the one I'm curious to see what complete bullshit I missed that would have let me get through the mountain pass without either being eaten by whatever the gently caress it was or freezing to death. I could manage one but not the other at the point I decided I was having no fun whatsoever and gave the drat thing back.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



Fat Samurai posted:

This was my second adventure game, right after Monkey Island. The design philosophy completely blindsided me, to put it midly.
Well it's no wonder since you play like a dairy farmer.

Fat Samurai
Feb 16, 2011

To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.


Poil posted:

Well it's no wonder since you play like a dairy farmer.

Even BEFORE they smell your breath?

Wait...

Anime Reference
Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, it's an anime reference.



Fat Samurai posted:

This was my second adventure game, right after Monkey Island. The design philosophy completely blindsided me, to put it mildly.

I don't think I could imagine a bigger whiplash between two games of the same era and nominally the same genre.

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.


DoubleNegative posted:

Technical difficulties the entire night. ScummVM, it turns out, doesn't like Sierra VGA titles. It straight up skips entire audio clips completely at random. I also had far more trouble than I should have with capturing the game at my desired resolution instead of being upscaled to my monitor's native.

I had a third of the game recorded and had to scrap all of it because of the first issue.

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.


That's my name!

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.


DoubleNegative posted:

That's my name!

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Oh good, now it's time to see my childhood struggles validated.

sfwarlock
Aug 11, 2007


Anime Reference posted:

I don't think I could imagine a bigger whiplash between two games of the same era and nominally the same genre.

I went from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade to Loom.

Eshettar
May 9, 2013


Anime Reference posted:

I imagine they meant to flesh his role out more later, and then later never came. Happens often enough in game dev.

Do you reckon the same philosophy was used when it came to designing the puzzles? ("How about this? To find the second key, the player has to put a not-very-obviously magical bridal on a random snake to make it turn into a pegasus! Huh? What kind of sense does that make? Pffft, we'll worry about that later! Now, let's talk about that bridge you're only allowed to cross a limited number of times before it breaks and your save file becomes worthless...")

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



And a lack of bug-testing, which led to the infamous Air-sick Bag puzzle in the Lesiure Suit Larry Series - where they wanted to make sure the parser can read the extremely specific instructions, but forgot to implement the common shorthand words (so you have to type air-sick bag, not just bag and you're running on a timer)

Deathwind
Mar 3, 2013


The issue with the airsick bag was that 'bag' was being interpreted by the parser as a verb instead of a noun. Still really unforgivable that's it's a key component of the final puzzle of the game and there's no point in the game where you would use bag as a verb...

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES


of SA-Mart forever

Eshettar posted:

Do you reckon the same philosophy was used when it came to designing the puzzles? ("How about this? To find the second key, the player has to put a not-very-obviously magical bridal on a random snake to make it turn into a pegasus! Huh? What kind of sense does that make? Pffft, we'll worry about that later! Now, let's talk about that bridge you're only allowed to cross a limited number of times before it breaks and your save file becomes worthless...")

In a case like this, I cannot imagine why someone didn't have the idea to make it that, if you talk to the "snake", he neighs like a horse. That doesn't tell you the answer, but it's a solid hint.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008
Ye Olde Newb





Yams Fan

Eshettar posted:

.........Owl's Quest? On the one hand, actually playing as Cedric. On the other, there's no possible way his sidekick could be anywhere near as obnoxious as him.

What was even the point of Cedric, come to think of it? Despite being a supposedly wise owl, he never offers Graham any advice about how to overcome the obstacles in his way. Even when he tries to warn Graham not to do something fatal, it's always too late because the player has already taken that false step. I get the feeling that Sierra were so excited with this new technology that enabled them to give Graham a companion on his journey for the very first time that they forgot to actually make Cedric's presence have a purpose. He was Poochie before the actual Poochie came along.

They decided to lift a page from 90s-era microsoft.

Eshettar
May 9, 2013


quote:

In a case like this, I cannot imagine why someone didn't have the idea to make it that, if you talk to the "snake", he neighs like a horse. That doesn't tell you the answer, but it's a solid hint.

Okaaaay, you just blew my mind! I've played the Kings Quest games several times and this is the first mention I've ever seen of any sort of hint about the snake/bridal situation! How could I possibly have missed that for all these years? I don't think the Kings Quest companion even mentions the snake neighing like a horse...

quote:

They decided to lift a page from 90s-era microsoft.

Ha ha, oh yeah! Clippy was totally a thing that existed at one time, huh? Was he really as annoying as Cedric? I can't remember that much about him.

Nidoking
Jan 27, 2009

I fought the lava, and the lava won.


Grimey Drawer

Eshettar posted:

Okaaaay, you just blew my mind! I've played the Kings Quest games several times and this is the first mention I've ever seen of any sort of hint about the snake/bridal situation! How could I possibly have missed that for all these years? I don't think the Kings Quest companion even mentions the snake neighing like a horse...

It doesn't. That was just a suggestion for a hint that a sensible game designer would have put into the game to make it a puzzle rather than a sales vector for the hint book.

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Eshettar posted:

Ha ha, oh yeah! Clippy was totally a thing that existed at one time, huh? Was he really as annoying as Cedric? I can't remember that much about him.

Clippy was incredibly obnoxious, but Cedric predates him by, like, seven years. Also having experienced both, I'd say Cedric is worse on the basis of having voice acting. And once Clippy actually did a helpful thing. Also you can change Clippy into other things like a dog, or a wizard.

Jagged Jim
Sep 25, 2013

I... I can only look though the window...


You could also turn it off, which was it's best feature.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice


Fun Clippy fact: He was the brainchild of an entire Microsoft research team specifically dedicated to creating "smart" office assistants. Another one they did was a genie who searched through your emails for dates to add to your calendar. I guess it never took off.

GuyUpNorth
Apr 29, 2014

Witty phrases on random basis

raminasi posted:

Fun Clippy fact: He was the brainchild of an entire Microsoft research team specifically dedicated to creating "smart" office assistants. Another one they did was a genie who searched through your emails for dates to add to your calendar. I guess it never took off.

Then we got Cortana (as optional feature) after this. Also Alexa but she's not that "deep" AFAIK.

Zeniel
Oct 18, 2013


Don't forget Bonzi Buddy, who did all of that and MORE!

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



What didn't help Cedric is his warnings happen when you already stumble onto a death and he's useless otherwise.

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003



Unlockable Ben

Is the "thanks for playing.." thing in the floppy version or just the CD? And did anyone ever find out if "to Lisa from O" could be done on the CD?

Nidoking
Jan 27, 2009

I fought the lava, and the lava won.


Grimey Drawer

hyphz posted:

Is the "thanks for playing.." thing in the floppy version or just the CD? And did anyone ever find out if "to Lisa from O" could be done on the CD?

The Easter egg isn't in the CD version, unless it's in a very early CD release that probably isn't readily available anymore. If you've got separate Walk and Travel cursors in your version, then it should work. I don't think most people are even aware that that was ever a thing.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




hyphz posted:

And did anyone ever find out if "to Lisa from O" could be done on the CD?
Wot.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos



An easter egg. You'll see it.

Deathwind
Mar 3, 2013


Prism posted:

An easter egg. You'll see it.

Depends, what version is being played?

I dont know
Aug 9, 2003



Nap Ghost

Deathwind posted:

Depends, what version is being played?

It will likely be linked when the time comes even if it's not in this particular version.

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.



This game opens up with a wizard appearing out of nowhere to steal Castle Daventry, and Graham is the only member of the royal family not in the castle at the time. Graham was out on a walk, presumably as part of a health regimen for recovering from his near-fatal heart attack in the previous game.

Technology-wise, the game is now back in the VGA era. You remember my King's Quest I LP, with the beautiful backgrounds, the mouse-driven interface, and voice acting? Yeah, we're back in that era now. Also making their triumphant return are puns: gloriously awful puns as the nominal reward for dying. And we'll be dying a lot because King's Quest V is somewhat infamous for being bullshit hard.

Spoilers?

If you have to talk about the plot in the game, then use spoiler bars. Otherwise the same "don't be a dick" rule applies.

The Updates

#1 - Going to Serenia
#2 - kings_quest_5_town_theme.mid
#3 - Making Up for Lost Time
#4 - Ahh! Life-giving water! Nectar of the gods!
#5 - Plot Dump!
#6 - The Dark Forest
#7 - The Rat Puzzle
#8 - Trading Sequence
#9 - Cedric and the Mountain
#10 - Queen Icebella
#11 - The Yeti Puzzle
#12 - Harpy Island
#13 - The Island of Mordack
#14 - The Maze of Mordack
#15 - Inside Mordack's Castle
#16 - Crispin ex Machina

DoubleNegative fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Oct 27, 2017

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.



King's Quest V - Sierra Fanfare

It's time, everyone. Allow me to be the first to say...



Welcome to King's Quest V. We're in for quite the ride. While not the first Sierra title I ever played, King's Quest V is one that I actually played when I was a kid.



We're given the option to skip the intro. While I would be quite happy if I didn't have to look at it again for a very long time, we'll be watching it regardless.



We're given the option to skip the intro twice. This warning actually pops up before every major cutscene in the game. Including, inexplicably, the ending. It is nice if you're replaying the game just for the puzzles ( why would you do that?) but it does create some head scratching moments.



Click this for video

King's Quest V - Intro & Story

There is a lot to complain about with this game, but the art is not one of those things. This game is beautiful. It's been upgraded to 256 color VGA graphics and you can tell. It's quite the departure from previous games.

That second link, by the way, is a soundtrack link. Going forward, I'm going to try to link to them more. The King's Quest IV soundtrack was just a single video that was something like 30 minutes long with just every track in the game. The soundtrack for V is a nice youtube playlist that I can quickly copy from, so it's a lot less hassle to link to.

Also the soundtrack is a lot nicer sounding than the PC speaker stuff that was happening with IV. Many individual screens have different tracks that help give a lot of character to the world.



For a fun time, try to see the edit points in the above gif. It's about half as long as it used to be.



Thankfully, one person managed to avoid being abducted along with the castle. It wouldn't be much of a game otherwise.



For the third, and final, time in the series, Graham will be our protagonist.



: My castle! What has happened?
: Ooooh I can tell you what happened.
: What?



: Ooooh I know what happened to your castle. I saw it all. Yes, I did.
: You did? Well then, what happened?

Our witness, as you can see, is an owl. You can tell he's an owl because he draws ouuuuuuuuut some voooooowel souuuuuuuunds. Typically O's and U's. You know, because owls intelligent enough to talk need to imitate hooting. Constantly.

I'm going to pre-empt the game a little bit and introduce him now. This is Cedric. I really hope you don't like him. Because along with the loving moon logic puzzles, he will be the source of a lot of my complaints about the game.

King's Quest V is the worst game in the series by a wide margin, and Cedric is a lot of the reason why. Ask any random person what they know about the game and the answer is probably going to be "Cedric" "a poooooisonous snake" and "the loving rat puzzle".

By the way, you really ought to click on the video link up above. Just to really get a taste of how awful this character is.



: Ooooh it was the powerful and evil wizard Mordack who did it. Ooooh I just happened to be visiting with an oooold friend when I saw him materialize out of thin air. Thank goodness he didn't notice ME!
: Well don't stop now, go on!



: He conjured up a terrible whirlwind that swirled faster and faster around the castle. With another incantation Mordack then caused the wind to draw the castle up into the sky and out of sight. Ooooh, it was something to see, all right!



: Why? Why would this wizard... Mordack want my castle? What could he have against me and my family?
: That I don't know. Ooooh I only know that it was Mordack who took your castle... and your family.



: Well... perhaps I can help you. My employer also happens to be a wizard, which is why I recognized Mordack. Ooooh Unlike Mordack, though, my employer is a very gooood wizard. His name is Crispinophur... but we all call him Crispin for short. The only problem is, you see...



I'm not sure who is supposed to laugh at that. Pratfalls can be funny if done right, but Cedric is decidedly not funny.

: Ahem! Anyway...where was I? Ooooh yes. The oooonly problem is that Crispin is getting on in years and tends to be a bit forgetful.
: I don't know. This doesn't sound as if it would work.
: Ooooh, sure it would! Crispin is a very qualified wizard... one of the best. He just gets a little forgetful now and again, that's all.
: I'm really not sure a half senile wizard can help me...
: Now where is it? Ooooh I know I brought it with me. Aha! Here it is!



: What is that?
: Well! It is my opinion that yoooou don't stand a chance against the likes of Mordack. Ooooh Excuse me for saying, Your Majesty... but you don't have a choice. You MUST come with me. I'm sure Crispin can help yoooou!
: Graham frowns at the owl's assessment.



: What is that stuff?
: Ooooh, just some oooold, left-over fairy dust I've been carrying around. Ooooh It'll help you to fly. Yoooou can follow me to the land of Serenia, where Crispin and I live. It's MUCH too far to walk, you know. Ooooh I think the fairy dust is still good.

Sitting here and transcribing the text, I've started to develop a dull ache right at the base of my skull. Every time Cedric draws out his "ooooh" sound, that ache throbs.



Graham is so graceful.

: Come on! Up here! Follow meeeeee...!



Serenia is the land to the northwest of Daventry, on the same continent. Traveling there on foot would take an incredibly long time, so temporary flight is a pretty handy way of crossing the miles.



: There it is! Down here! Come on!
: Okay... here I come!



How Graham didn't die from that fall I have no idea.

: Ooooh... looks like the fairy dust just wore off.



: Cedric! Where have you been? I've been calling for you! Well, well, what have we here?



: A bit clumsy, are you? Well, come on in the house and dry off. No sense sitting around like a wet dog.



: Cedric, go on in the house and pour each of us a nice hot cup of tea.
: Oh! Aye, aye, Crispin.



: The Society of Wizards has always taken a dim view of Mordack and his abuse of his power. Why, he's even been put on suspension a few times. It never seems to do any good, though.

Sounds like the Society is pretty useless. Merely suspending membership of someone who is abusing power is about the most worthless thing they could do in any situation. We're not going to get any "Society" support in this adventure, and this line is the last time they'll ever be brought up in the entire series.

: Crispin, why would Mordack want to take my family or castle? What did WE ever do to him?
: I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that. Mordack is a very unpredictable wizard. I've NEVER understood that evil mind of his.

I don't want to keep harping on this, but the Society of Wizards knows that Mordack is evil and, at best, all they do is give him a slap on the wrist and make him super pinky swear promise he'll be good in the future. Out of the four wizards we've met in the series so far, three have been evil douchebags. From this sample size of four, I'm being led to believe that the Society is most likely a bunch of evil wizards and Crispin who is too dumb to notice.

: I thought perhaps you could help His Majesty, Crispin. That's why I brought him here.
: Well, let me see now... I used to be a very powerful wizard at one time, you know... but I've gotten a little rusty lately.
: A LITTLE rusty?
: That's quite enough from you, Cedric!
: Yes, sir, Crispin... sir.
: I don't know what I have that would be of much use to you. Most of my wizard stuff is pretty old and worn out. But, let's see what I can find.



I could have sped that gif up. I didn't.

: No, that won't do. That's all used up.



: Hmmmm. It might work. Here, eat this.
: What IS that?
: That's an old piece of magical white snake I had left over from last year. With it, you'll be able to communicate with the natural and animal world. You could find that quite helpful.



It checks out. Kinda. Alright look, a snake was one of the ingredients at least.



: Here's my old wand. I don't even know if it works anymore. Most of its power may be gone. You should know that wands are like pets. They've got to get to know you before they'll work for you. Just treat it with care and respect and hopefully it will do something for you.

Recall that Gwydion Alexander was able to get Monsoon's wand to work without an acclimation process.

: You'd better get going, my boy. No telling WHAT that confounded Mordack could be up to. You go with him, Cedric. Show him the way.
: Who, meeeee?
: Yes, you! Don't be such a coward. Now, go on! You'd better get started!
: Thank you, sir. I appreciate all you've done for me.



: Ooooh I suggest we visit the town first. How about it, Your Majesty?
: Please don't call me Your Majesty, Cedric. It's much too formal. I'd like it if you'd just call me Graham.
: Ooooh I'd be delighted to Graham. Anyway... what was I talking about? Oh, yes! The town! You might be able to find some supplies there. It's just over a little hill to the south; not too far.
: Well then, let's be on our way, Cedric.

And with that, the long intro is finally over. But before I close out this introductory update, let's go over the interface.



Luckily I did all of this back in King's Quest I. So if you want in-depth coverage, just go re-read the first update of that. For a quick refresher, the four important icons are...

: Walk.
: Look.
: Use.
: Talk.



Options menu is largely identical to the AGDI KQ1 remake. In this game, we're going to set Graham's speed at maximum and it will never leave there.

260 points are this game's maximum. Unlike the previous four LPs of the series, we won't be able to view our points at a glance anymore. I've got a list of points open in a tab in Chrome that I'll be referring to for totals.

Also for the love of God and all that is holy do not touch the volume slider. I will actually be turning it down a ways a few minutes into the game proper. There's a somewhat infamous music track that feels like it gets louder the longer it goes. Also Cedric's voice is known to cause involuntary eye twitching, and that doesn't need to be any louder than it already is.



Something neat is that you can click the walk icon on a door and the game will intuit that you want Graham to walk through the door. So let's go talk to Crispin again.



: Don't be wasting your time coming in here. Young man, I've done all I can for you. Now it's up to you. Well, anyway... I'm not going to be here for a little while. There's an emergency I have to attend to in a neighboring land. I'll try to keep an eye out for you... but... this is something you and Cedric are going to have to do yourselves. I wish you the best, King Graham.
: I appreciate all you've done, Crispin. I'll be on my way now.



Cedric

: Cedric seems to be thinking big thoughts right now, perhaps planning their next move, and so is not in a talkative mood.

That's cute. Cedric thinks he has any input on where this crazy train is rolling.

Anyway, think of this like the VGA version of >talk to cedric. It's something I'm going to try out for this game, and see how it works out.

door near the stream

: A small cellar door is located under the house.

cellar door

: Ooooh, don't bother with the cellar door; there's nothing there. Besides, it's locked.

well

: Curious, Graham gazes down into Crispin's well, but sees nothing of interest.



So let's call the first update there.

NEXT TIME: The game starts in earnest.

DoubleNegative fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Nov 13, 2017

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

You got the fluffy kitty kitty!


Ooooohhhh, boy. This one.

Retsupurae already covered this one (absinthe makes the game more tolerable) and is a pretty good rundown of this game in motion. But this will do a much better job of breaking down exactly why this one sucks, I believe it in my heart.

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Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


DoubleNegative posted:

: That's an old piece of magical white snake I had left over from last year. With it, you'll be able to communicate with the natural and animal world. You could find that quite helpful.

So now I just picture King Graham singing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyF8RHM1OCg

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