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drunken officeparty
Aug 23, 2006


Is there a womens prison show with more explicit violence. The biggest problem I can't get over is that for the most part there is almost none. Like, after the gun is gone, the group of 6 or 7 grown men prison guards are scared of some 5' tall girls threatening them with sticks. And they never even hit them with the sticks.

Also a whole season of fuss over an unimportant, annoying, terrible character. Poussey deserved to die just for being bad to watch.

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Grem
Mar 29, 2004

I've switched to the Trump side... the right side, the white side.


drunken officeparty posted:

Is there a womens prison show with more explicit violence. The biggest problem I can't get over is that for the most part there is almost none. Like, after the gun is gone, the group of 6 or 7 grown men prison guards are scared of some 5' tall girls threatening them with sticks. And they never even hit them with the sticks.

Also a whole season of fuss over an unimportant, annoying, terrible character. Poussey deserved to die just for being bad to watch.

There is, actually! Wentworth is what might help you out. Although I might be mis-remembering how violent it is.

Power of Pecota
Aug 3, 2007

It is not that bad, there is hope, there is charity, there is compassion blah blah blah Charles Dickens three ghosts visit Scrooge and he wakes up to life blah blah blah


Cough Drop The Beat posted:

Great season though, even if the some of the subplots feel extraneous and meandering. The main plot was very well done for the most part though. Danielle Brooks and Lea DaLaria are incredible actresses, as always, but man, Brooks killed it this season. That cliffhanger was even more evil than last season's because the aftermath could go anywhere!

Lea DaLaria put on an absolute clinic this season - I actually had to pause laughing at the "Ladies and gentlemen, a tap dance" line.

Re: the spoiler, I'm worried for Frieda - sharing her bunker and supplies is kind of the logical endpoint of development for what we've seen of her character.

I feel like everyone else is probably safe on the narrative arc front besides Piper and Alex, and they aren't killing Piper and they've faked out killing Alex enough that by now I won't believe it until I see it. Even if the next season starts with her being shot I'm expecting they're pulling a Savages and faking us out until the end of the episode.

underage at the vape shop
May 11, 2011


Noctone posted:

surely you australians have higher standards than that for cute

bogans arent much better tbh the rednecks at least have a foreign accent

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006
leading helpless teens astray

Frieda might be sharing her carefully acquired stockpiles and private space because she understands that the riot means that Litchfield is over, that their life there is over. Frieda might be the smartest one of all.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




I hope they at least cover the process of figuring out what happened in the riot and charging people. I'd be interested in finding out what happens to everyone. I'm sure it will just jump straight to Alex and Piper conveniently sent to the same place and they are making out.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011


Fun Shoe

I wonder what made the producers think that getting domed by a goddamned pepper ball is somehow deadly.

There must be a shitton of corpses to clean up after every paintball tournament.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011


Fun Shoe

drunken officeparty posted:

Is there a womens prison show with more explicit violence. The biggest problem I can't get over is that for the most part there is almost none. Like, after the gun is gone, the group of 6 or 7 grown men prison guards are scared of some 5' tall girls threatening them with sticks. And they never even hit them with the sticks.

It's a prison riot with dead hostages. In real life several convicts would be beaten until crippled/dead if they put up traps as well.
I wonder if Kohan has seen a single episode of OZ.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

ditty bout my clitty posted:

It's a prison riot with dead hostages. In real life several convicts would be beaten until crippled/dead if they put up traps as well.
I wonder if Kohan has seen a single episode of OZ.

Is there a precedent for this in a minimum security women's prison? They didn't even know about the dead hostage until they were already raiding the place, and the Governor had said 'no casualties' when he gave the go-ahead to storm the prison. There was also a tremendous amount of support for the Lichfield prisoners; keep in mind their experiences had been all over social media for the past three days, with millions of views. I doubt the Governor is going to want to deal with the blowback on an election year.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

Cojawfee posted:

I hope they at least cover the process of figuring out what happened in the riot and charging people. I'd be interested in finding out what happens to everyone. I'm sure it will just jump straight to Alex and Piper conveniently sent to the same place and they are making out.

Given that they separated Flaca and Maritza I doubt it.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005
Oh, Jesus fuck. It's like the Nazis opened The Ark Of The Covenant, and I looked.

Panfilo posted:

Given that they separated Flaca and Maritza I doubt it.

They'd better remedy that. Unlike the Meth Heads, Flaca and Maritza's hijinks always are fun when they're onscreen (though mileage may vary, I'm sure). Forget the whole riot, they just want to be YouTube makeup personalities. They never seem involved in any bigger issues aside from the whole baby mouse thing last season which Maritza bounced back pretty quickly from it seems.

One of my main issues with this season was that so many plots/motivations/situations feel like a constant retread every season now. Red schemes and wants revenge! Suzanne's mental health is precarious and her friends struggle to help her! Lorna is obsessive unrealistic about 'love' and comes running back to Nicky! Pennsatucky tries to do the right thing but runs ends up at odds with the Meth heads! Piper and Alex love each other but constantly butt heads about differing opinions!

Gloria and Frieda are the two best characters on this show imo now.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




Panfilo posted:

Given that they separated Flaca and Maritza I doubt it.

Yes, but those are nonwhite nonmain characters. Even after all the crimes that Alex and Piper commit together, they keep getting put in the same prison at every step.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

Cojawfee posted:

Yes, but those are nonwhite nonmain characters. Even after all the crimes that Alex and Piper commit together, they keep getting put in the same prison at every step.

The MCC lady has dirt on them, and she's going to use that to get out ASAP. Though it may take a while; when they did the prisoner count MCC lady made it one heavy but this is canceled out by Chang escaping. Boo obviously has an axe to grind, but so does Caputo, who might maliciously play dumb about who she is for as long as possible as payback.

The Latinas and White Supremacists/Nazis teaming up as 'Team Latte' was surprising, but it also kind of reminded me of that part in American History X, where people's convictions only go so far as to how it benefits them, and if your racial ideals are getting in the way of profit or self-preservation then all that conveniently goes out the window.

Piscatelli died because his heart was too sizes too small, simple as that. His biology is based on Grinch biology obviously.

Shuffle
Feb 3, 2011

DEA Sloth!
No Fast Movements!


pretty sure Freida still had that gun in her holster and partial riot gear on, not good if any of the CERT see her

BJPaskoff
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time

Great season overall, probably the best since season one. There was a huge theme of the Trolley Dilemma, as in there were so many times a character had to make a choice that benefited just themselves or the prison at large. No one hosed it up as bad as Tastee did, though. The last episode would have been much different if there were any other inmate near her with a backbone able to say "Yes" to Fig's offer.

Freida insisting that the bunker was the safest place to be turned out to be just the opposite. I expected some casualties in the siege, mostly: the girls who laid traps because the guards would've gotten pissed; Gloria, because she was hiding in the dark and then scampering around a "secured" part of the prison; and I was totally expecting either Donuts or Pennsatucky to get shot by that gun. But everyone was safe, except the ten in the bunker could live or die.

Piscattella and Poussey both got killed by an inexperienced guard. It was pretty obvious that guy was going to kill someone because they introduced him as like a new antagonist halfway through the last episode.

I hope Daya is gone for good. Remember how horrible her storylines with the one-legged guard were? And they had to remind us of it with that mural she was painting, ugh. Now the meth heads can be the worst characters.

I wonder what they're going to do next season. They have to get the prisoners or what's left of the cast back together and back to Litchfield at some point, right? I imagine it's going to feel back to normal towards the end of next season, but I don't know how.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006
leading helpless teens astray

It didn't matter if Taystee accepted the offer or not, though. The guards had already escaped or were in the process and nothing was on paper or being recorded.

Steve2911
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.


Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

It didn't matter if Taystee accepted the offer or not, though. The guards had already escaped or were in the process and nothing was on paper or being recorded.

They only stormed the place because there was a) no prospect of a deal and b) almost no risk of hostage death. Even if b was out of the picture they would still have pursued a as far as possible to avoid an unnecessary siege.

They repeatedly demonstrated that any sort of violence or forceful retaking the prison was an absolute last resort.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




I guess this season was more about being an idiot and screwing over everyone else.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006
leading helpless teens astray

I thought it was made pretty clear that the prison was stormed only because of b.

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.


Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

I thought it was made pretty clear that the prison was stormed only because of b.

They wouldn't have stormed it if the hostages were still inside, but they thought they were making progress with Taystee and assumed the hostages were released because of that, and when it came out that Taystee didn't want them to be set free, they decided that the peaceful solution wasn't going to work.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

Cojawfee posted:

I guess this season was more about being an idiot and screwing over everyone else.

Maria and Gloria were each so desperate to make sure their kid was ok/have a relationship that they were willing to turn on everybody else. In Maria's case, it was trying to negotiate a shorter sentence to be with her baby during that critical period of her development. In Gloria's case, it was finding out her son was critically injured. At least Taystee and company were thinking beyond their own immediate needs; for them the most personal thing was justice for Poussey but they were also advocating better conditions in the prison for everyone, not just them.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




Panfilo posted:

Maria and Gloria were each so desperate to make sure their kid was ok/have a relationship that they were willing to turn on everybody else. In Maria's case, it was trying to negotiate a shorter sentence to be with her baby during that critical period of her development. In Gloria's case, it was finding out her son was critically injured. At least Taystee and company were thinking beyond their own immediate needs; for them the most personal thing was justice for Poussey but they were also advocating better conditions in the prison for everyone, not just them.

Gloria wanted to screw everyone over in order to see her son. Maria screwed everyone over because she thought there was some blanket deal for releasing the hostages so she could see her daughter. Taystee screwed everyone over even though nearly every demand was met because she couldn't get past that the state couldn't do anything about the federal case that CO Bayley would be involved in.

Steve2911
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.


Cojawfee posted:

Taystee screwed everyone over even though nearly every demand was met because she couldn't get past that the state couldn't do anything about the federal case that CO Bayley would be involved in.

Yeah, I know the death was still super fresh at that point, but it was sort of hugely irrational to expect them to be able to decide whether or not Bayley would be prosecuted.

BJPaskoff
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time

Steve2911 posted:

Yeah, I know the death was still super fresh at that point, but it was sort of hugely irrational to expect them to be able to decide whether or not Bayley would be prosecuted.

It showed that as highly as the prisoners think about themselves, none of them are that bright and none of them have a real grip on reality outside of the prison structure. It's shown to be a real problem in regards to redevism and their life when they get out. Where's that GED program, MCC?

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

At least Tayatee's agenda benefits other inmates. Maria and Gloria were only in it for themselves.

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007

I'm very highly educated. I know words, I have the best words...but there's no better word than stupid.



Lipstick Apathy

I don't think Taystee is stupid, in fact very bright, but it was what, 4 days after Poussey was killed? I totally get not being able to let that one point go, they were besties

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010


If anything, Taystee's grief loving them over was one of the more realistic parts of this season.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

That one inmate giving the CO a stroke is what did them in. They should've taken the bullets out of the gun in the first place, keeping it loaded was the dumbest thing, at least keep the safety on ffs. They also should've been keeping closer tabs on that CO; Tayatee's should've had Cindy keeping an eye out so other inmates didn't gently caress with him which is exactly what happened.

Noctone
Oct 25, 2005

XO til we overdose..

Well I mean the real fuckup is Taystee not realizing how serious Caputo and Figueroa were about how it was now-or-never on accepting the offer. And tbf if Maria hadn't released the hostages Taystee might've come to her senses and there may have been another opportunity to accept the deal.

Which also let's be honest, how much faith do we have that any agreement actually would've been honored? More likely the minute they gave up the hostages they would've been chucked on the busses just the same. Especially since the deal was offered without the knowledge that Humps had shuffled this mortal coil.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010


Either way the Humps situation probably would have hosed them. The stroke was bad enough they were probably going to lose the deal even if Taystee accepted right away. His death would have been a definite nail in the coffin.

Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 18, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge


Panfilo posted:

That one inmate giving the CO a stroke is what did them in. They should've taken the bullets out of the gun in the first place, keeping it loaded was the dumbest thing, at least keep the safety on ffs. They also should've been keeping closer tabs on that CO; Tayatee's should've had Cindy keeping an eye out so other inmates didn't gently caress with him which is exactly what happened.

Yeah, I was totally expecting someone to try and fire it at a vital point, for example, if Piscatella got hold of it and tried to shoot someone, then discover someone had unloaded it.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006
leading helpless teens astray

The person whose selfishness and inability to get a hold of themselves annoyed me the most was Gloria but hey I've never been a mother so I don't feel especially comfortable judging her.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005
Oh, Jesus fuck. It's like the Nazis opened The Ark Of The Covenant, and I looked.

Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

The person whose selfishness and inability to get a hold of themselves annoyed me the most was Gloria but hey I've never been a mother so I don't feel especially comfortable judging her.

I didn't really mind Gloria's 'selfishness' plot, because I felt like the whole season she was trying to be like the 'group mom'/calming influence with the other Latinas, and it was getting her nowhere; like stealing the gun from Daya, trying to convince Aledia everything was okay during the riot. Her planning was selfish, yeah, but at the same time, it seemed like she was getting to her wit's end trying to 'mother' the other inmates on the inside/being there for them, then finding out her actual child on the outside was in such bad condition.

My boyfriend finished up the season and he honestly did not care for it. His summary boiled down to 'so... nothing loving happened'

Pessimism
Aug 2, 2005

You can find this and other great titles at your local library

LadyPictureShow posted:

My boyfriend finished up the season and he honestly did not care for it. His summary boiled down to 'so... nothing loving happened'

Seriously it's been like five seasons and they're still in prison??

Ak Gara
Jul 29, 2005

That's just the way he rolls.

Cojawfee posted:

Gloria wanted to screw everyone over in order to see her son. Maria screwed everyone over because she thought there was some blanket deal for releasing the hostages so she could see her daughter. Taystee screwed everyone over even though nearly every demand was met because she couldn't get past that the state couldn't do anything about the federal case that CO Bayley would be involved in.

They should have agreed to arrest him for murder, knowing Taystee should have asked for manslaughter!

like a cigarette should
Oct 26, 2004

DOCTOR'S ORDERS!


It was kind of nice to see Janae doing at least like...one positive nice thing instead of being a pointless unpleasant bitch for once, even if it was in a minor way.

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

Someone please tell me we Kodaked that moment.


5x13: Where did Freida's gun come from? Was it Piscatella's?

like a cigarette should posted:

It was kind of nice to see Janae doing at least like...one positive nice thing instead of being a pointless unpleasant bitch for once, even if it was in a minor way.

Yeah, she was a lot better this season than the past few. Her flashback bugged me a bit though: It seemed like we were supposed to assume that she gave up on trying to succeed after seeing the rich private school and blame systemic inequality/racism/etc. for it. But hers was literally the first flashback the show ever did and it clearly laid out that even despite that, she still became a track star and was on her way to college before she screwed herself by playing gangster. So what was the point? Having the hyper-conservative Nation of Islam father muddies it even further.

Apparently that flashback was inspired by a This American Life episode where a well-meaning but insanely misguided teacher did the exact same thing. Probably would have worked better with one of the other inmates.

swickles
Aug 21, 2006

I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know


ninjahedgehog posted:

5x13: Where did Freida's gun come from? Was it Piscatella's?


Yeah, she was a lot better this season than the past few. Her flashback bugged me a bit though: It seemed like we were supposed to assume that she gave up on trying to succeed after seeing the rich private school and blame systemic inequality/racism/etc. for it. But hers was literally the first flashback the show ever did and it clearly laid out that even despite that, she still became a track star and was on her way to college before she screwed herself by playing gangster. So what was the point? Having the hyper-conservative Nation of Islam father muddies it even further.

Apparently that flashback was inspired by a This American Life episode where a well-meaning but insanely misguided teacher did the exact same thing. Probably would have worked better with one of the other inmates.


I took it more as "they have so much, they even took our culture". Like, the dichotomy was severe and noticed, but it wasn't until you had white people basically "stealing" their culture did you have that reaction. It was then that she realized the system never stops and will continue to take and take. Also, getting an athletic scholarship instead of an academic one also kind of demonstrates that. She could probably have gotten an academic scholarship, but she still had to rely on physical talents to enhance her mental ones.

Reality Winner
Aug 10, 2016



I'm like 4 and a half episodes in and I'm really struggling to get through. The show seems way more sitcom-y that previously and I'm not liking that. At least at this point, none of the characters I actually like, Caputo, Luschek, Natasha Lyonne, Mike Birbiglia, Red, Aleida, Kukudio, seem to be doing much. At least Frieda got a flashback episode. Storm the loving prison already.

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Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.

This has been the weakest season by far.

The number of personal narrative arcs repeated from previous seasons is ridiculous, and the tone deafness of not just one episode to the next, but one scene to the next is absurd. Many scenes are filmed with false implications to the general danger, tone, and mood present. 2/3rds of the story lines are bat poo poo crazy, but we're supposed to pretend to take the remainder seriously?

The same thing that happened to Weeds is happening to this show, and rapidly.

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