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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Klaus88 posted:

The southern American communist resistance member threw me for a loop. This game is going to make people SO ANGRY in the best possible way. :allears:

I like how pissed BJ's getting at him while he goes on about how he bravely resisted sending the proletariat to die in Europe.

It seems like a big thing in this game is going to be trying to get a bunch of resistance cells that hate the gently caress out of each other to work together enough that they remember they hate the loving Nazis more. They played with it a little in The New Order with Blazko and Hendrix nearly coming to blows, but from the trailer it's going to be more central this time.

Also, if my eyes don't deceive me, Fergus is getting a robot arm and Wyatt's going a bit nuts. Could be someone else, but if they're keeping both routes available, that's pretty neat.

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



poptart_fairy posted:

Caroline DLC. Press F to control breathing.

Hold F.

One. Two. Three,

Release F.

One. Two. Three.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Werix posted:

You mean grassy knoll.

Because there wouldn't be book depositories because the Nazi would be burning them.

He sets up book depositories as bait.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Sheen Sheen posted:

I'm finally getting around to doing a Wyatt play through, haven't touched either TNO or TOB since beating TOB right after it came out. Is there any mention of Nazi allies like Italy or Japan in this universe? Is Japan running their own genocidal fascist empire in Asia, or did TNO Nazis destroy them?

The Nazis backstabbed everybody and took over everything.

Because Nazis are assholes.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Psychotic Weasel posted:

Read the newspaper articles scattered through the world (particularly the ones from the war plastered around the hideout). They give you an idea at what the Nazi's do with their 'friends'.

Regarding the story itself, I feel as though Wyatt is the canonical choice (doesn't he appear at the end of the reveal trailer? Dropping acid?) but his armour upgrades are pretty underwhelming and clearly inferior to the health upgrades you get if you save Fergus. Not sure what kind of trade off they were trying to go for there...

Fergus shows up in the trailer too, with a robot arm. Don't know how they're going to handle things, but they're both in.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Psychotic Weasel posted:

I choose to believe that the Nazi's, in typical German fashion, are just really driven to complete the tasks they set out to do so BJ has had to show up and wreck Castle Wolfenstein like 6 or 7 times now. Each game is canon.

One thing each successive developer hasn't touched on is whether Hitler is alive or not. After you kill him (repeatedly) at the end of Wolf3D he is never seen or mentioned ever again. Most of the background stories just point at a nameless Furher or Death's Head. Almost like they are hiding the fact that Hitler is dead but are still using him as a figure head.

There's a letter in the new series where someone mentions meeting Hitler, with the strong implication he was... less than entirely alive.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Wamdoodle posted:

What if her line was, "Great job taking out Hitler, BJ!"

"I appreciate how you, William Jacob Blazkowicz, just killed Hitler in this, the second game in the latest Wolfenstein series. Yes, you certainly killed Hitler, and in this very game!"

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Cicadalek posted:

I wonder how much of the cartoon will be referenced ingame. I can see a scenario where BJ punches a man dressed as the main character and steals his clothes for a disguise. Or the various resistance leaders dress up as the villains.

I just want BJ to shoot a guy climbing a building after poking his head out the window to make a quip.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



DoctorStrangelove posted:

Crushed. Like everyone else.

Except the southern parts of Africa. Last place on Earth the Nazis aren't running. Hopefully Blazko removing a little of the pressure means they'll be able to start pushing back.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Psychotic Weasel posted:


I guess all the British resistance fighters are dead though thanks to the Monitor, that we singlehandedly blew up. Maybe the next game will be the revolution reigniting around the world if they manager to get word out about what they're doing in the US.

Dead or possibly gone to ground. Old style of resistance was too obvious to work with a giant robot right there and all. It being gone might bring some of the old streetfighting spirit back.

Of course, it seems reasonable to assume, between the fact several of the countries still free from Nazi rule were still at the time British holdings and the fact the remaining African countries have held out for more than a decade past the rest of the world, that most of the surviving regular forces retreated to Nambia and the neighboring countries. Wonder how far that area has moved to "We must all hang together or surely we will hang separately." considering the pre-existing tensions being weighed against, you know, the only alternative being the loving Nazis.

Also wonder if they've been able to push back with Blazko relieving some of the pressure.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Mycroft Holmes posted:

I'm still trying to figure out how everywhere on earth was conquered but southern africa.

Bombate is basically African Blazkowicz, presumably.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



CJacobs posted:

Fight the Nazis who have power armor, nuclear submarines and flying bases, a space age flying battleship that can travel to other planets, and battle tanks equipped with dual rocket launchers. you don't have any of those things btw. ok do it. fight the nazis. wtf why are you losing?? this is all your fault

Yeah, that was kind of the point of the scenes with Bobby Bram towards the start of the New Order. His speech in the car was about the Nazi invasion of England, how there was vicious house-to-house fighting, making them pay with blood for every inch with bricks, knives, bare hands if there was nothing else. Beautiful.

...Then the Nazis brought out their new giant war robot, and the Resistance was pretty much hosed, the end.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Rookersh posted:

See I loved Grace and her passion. If the whole speech was her, I'd have been stoked.

But Horton suuuucked.

MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS RISE UP

look at your hands they got blood

AMERICA IS BACK

yeah we lost man

Like gently caress man.

At least with Wyatt it's stable throughout.


They're both pretty bad. Which is a shame

This should be a slam dunk. You're drawing from one of the best eras for speeches in recent history, with a player who's pretty firmly on your side.

But they're both duds. I think part of it is the fact it really isn't a good stopping point. The game's pitch is that you're kicking off another American revolution, and the ending... is your allies giving a speech that they're finally starting another American revolution. It's something you should see paying off in game, not just the finale. But even aside from that, the speech isn't where it should be.

You get one shot to tell the world that the war is back on, there's some key points you want to hit. Nazis bad, of course, but also that the fight can be won. You're well on your way to that one with the initial visual of Terror Billy back from the grave to kill his executioner, but you need to put some focus on it. Sure, there's people who are actively on the Nazi side, but you're not getting to them anyway. The people you want are mostly the ones who are keeping their heads down because there's no hope, which means you emphasize this isn't some rag-tag group of terrorists who managed a single lucky decapitation strike, but a group with a proven track record of loving up Nazi poo poo, and that with the war back on, hiding isn't much safer than fighting. Which isn't done at all.

I mean, there's even a line about how if someone went to fight Nazis in the street, they're "one of us", which... duh? If someone's got the brass to go against killer robots with a sock holding a brick, they're team Kill Hitler. They're also probably dead, because they tried to fight a killer robot with a brick, but it was good hustle anyway.

This is supposed to be a motivation to risk your life for your country, and it doesn't feel strong enough to sell fifty cents worth of war bonds.

Oh, and the Fergus one not having any Fergus in it is a drat shame. If you can't be motivational, you can at least be foul mouthed and cantankerous.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



The Lone Badger posted:

If I pick Wyatt at the beginning am I doomed to have only 50 max health for the campaign?

You're doomed to only 50 health for the first half of the campaign no matter who you pick. Also bad hit signaling.

There was an awful decision here, but it wasn't yours.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



General Battuta posted:

It feels like a game that went through some awful development turmoil. Lots of ambitious story and level ideas, then suddenly they're behind schedule and over scope. Cue awful crunch and a lot of patching over cut content to make the story hang together, spackle like 'oh BJ just gets on a ship and goes to Venus.'



If BJ dies at his execution then it's all pointless. I don't mean 'I don't like the theory', I mean it's effectively meaningless. What's the difference?

Don't forget that Anya canonically spent her younger days killing Nazis any way she could, including bombing police stations, seducing and murdering Nazi soldiers, and all sorts of other hot-blooded fascist devastation. It's no surprise she's still pretty into it.


The goal is right, but the methods aren't.

Anya's younger days were Agent 47 style. Garrotes, poison, stealth. Not hot blooded. Cold. She had something that needed doing, horrible as it might have felt, so she did it. The problem isn't her killing Nazis, but her killing Nazis with twin machine guns and backflips. It's like James Bond killing people with his laser eyes.

Yes, James Bond is a murderous sociopath, but that fact does not even begin to answer any questions the viewer might have.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



BENGHAZI 2 posted:

I just finished this game and it ruled. More games should have Hitler shooting Reagan in the head.

As far as BJ. being mad about Bolshevik propaganda please remember that he's still an American from the early 20th century and as such communism I'd a dirty word. Add to that that everything Horton says is right and it's pretty clearly something the character thinks and not something the devs think.

Congratulations. You're arguing against something that I've never seen people say (which, admittedly, may have just been blind luck, but I've been doing some looking) and directly reinforcing one of the arguments I've seen floating around against the game.

BJ initially disliking Horton is Cool and Good, because it reinforces the idea that it doesn't matter what your politics are, it doesn't matter who you are or what you did, what matters is that Nazi fucks must die right now, and people who would normally hate each other can be friends because what they agree on (Nazi fucks must die) is more important for the moment than what they disagree over.

Horton being Always Right is stupid, both because Horton clearly isn't (as BJ points out, his arguing against fighting in Europe just wound up leaving him fighting in New Orleans), and because it undermines the aforementioned thematic elements in favor of being propaganda, and stupid propaganda on top of that.

(Also, the Reagan thing is pretty weird, since there's the Arizona line when Reagan wasn't remotely associated with the state and the apparent age of the actor is pretty far off from Reagan's 50 in 61. I get the urge to make cheap shots, but it's usually a good idea to try and aim first.)

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Arcsquad12 posted:

So with the DLC being released for this game, does anyone think that this will discount another Old Blood style expansion pack from coming out? Because I'd love to see something that gives BJ more stuff to do or being able to play through Caroline's operation in Paris where they stole the ubersoldier torso. Or hell, make it a mix of the two so BJ experiences flashbacks to Caroline's adventures through some framing device.

I wouldn't bet on it, given the sales figures. I mean, Death of the Outsider sold awful, despite Dishonored 2 doing much better than The New Colossus. Betting on people wanting an expandalone seems dicey.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Dapper_Swindler posted:

they might. at the very least a sequel is still happening. the game was mostly critically praised and bethesda is doubling down hard of late with their single player campaign type games and willingness to back good/decent stuff even if it doesnt perform perfectly.

They announced it?

(Not doubting, just didn't see the official statement yet)

Even aside from that, though, I'll admit that Beth announcing a Prey expandalone (speaking of games that did badly, but still better than Wolf 2...) is pretty good evidence they're willing to go ahead with things that aren't guaranteed slam dunks in the sales department, but TNC already got the DLC mini-campaigns. You can release loss leaders, but there's a limit to it, and expansion content tends to be more made for money than the art.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Xenomrph posted:

Machine Games has said that their Wolfenstein games were always meant to be a trilogy.

Heard that one before.

It's not the same thing as an announcement at all.

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Nichael posted:

That's what makes this game so powerful for me. The fact is, what Wolfenstein portrays isn't that unrealistic (ignoring the crazy sci-fi technology). If the Nazis had won, white America would've been fine with it. They probably would've liked it. The scenes portraying America as an already lost cause are terrifying, and they should motivate you to get involved in politics, where ever you are, to try to stop fascism in all of its forms (and even if we ultimately fail at that, it's good just to know you went down doing something).

Honestly, it didn't strike me as remotely believable.

Like, America being a fascist dictatorship, sure, fine, I can buy it. But Americans traditionally hated them some Europeans, and I doubt mandatory German lessons would go over well. Exterminating the African American population out of sight or the atrocities J brought up in the first game is an easy sell to a populace that wasn't fond of them to begin with. Reimplementing slavery when even most Lost Causers at the time were saying "Well, obviously we planned to get rid of it eventually" (Obviously bullshit, but bullshit that indicates something about the beliefs of the era when it was said) is just loving stupid. The KKK is vile, but they hated a lot of things the Nazis endorsed, even if they hated other people more, which would render them... somewhat less useful as public allies. (The individual members, sure, but there's no reason to keep the aesthetic).

It's less saying something specific, and more conflating everything evil about America and saying "See? You're just like the Nazis!". Just because two people are both pieces of poo poo doesn't mean they'll get along.

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