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ugh its Troika
May 2, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


You use the duplicate to power up the original. This increases their Noble Phantasm's power and also adds an overcharge effect for if you get the gauge over 100%.

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Nomadic Scholar
Feb 6, 2013




Holy poo poo that's even better whoa. I think I'll try for bathory on the roll or maybe one of the strong ones. Also what do dupes do in this game?

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Only four left for big boy here, so he's all but useless.



Noble Phantasm can be leveled up to 5 times, getting stronger each time. After that, dupes do nothing.

Well, 5 stars dupes drop summoning circles, and then you can spend 10 summoning circles to get a 5-Star, but no one except the whalest of whales will ever get there.

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009


As I understand it we're currently expecting to get:
  • Tutorial 10-pull with a guaranteed random tutorial servant.
  • One extra tutorial servant of our choice
  • 42 extra quartz
  • Welfare Saber Lily and a bunch of other random stuff
So if you're grinding for a specific 5* it sounds like each reroll will give you a bit over 20 pulls? How long would it take to play enough tutorial to get 18 more quartz?

Nomadic Scholar
Feb 6, 2013




So would it be better to try and roll a second Heracles to have a +1 np on him?

Captain Keene
Dec 20, 2012


Generally speaking getting variety or wider coverage is better than just powering up a Noble Phantasm.

As for speed rerolling, it will be more time efficient to make the 30 quartz pull and then restart. The tutorial 10 roll is rigged and cannot give you a 5* servant.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Nomadic Scholar posted:

So would it be better to try and roll a second Heracles to have a +1 np on him?
No. Not at all. It's a very slight damage bump, it's more something to make extra copies not completely useless/give lower rarity servants some kind of advantage over higher rarity servants than it is an essential mechanic for strengthening your characters.

NP1 Hercules at level 80 does about 45k base with his NP, before any attack buffs. NP2 Hercules does about 56k with his NP. Endgame bosses have somewhere in the 600k-1.5mil range.

Endorph fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2017 around 20:49

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009


Captain Keene posted:

As for speed rerolling, it will be more time efficient to make the 30 quartz pull and then restart. The tutorial 10 roll is rigged and cannot give you a 5* servant.

Really? You can get multiple 4* Servants from it, though. Does it not just make nine normal rolls then pick a tutorial 4*?

InfinityComplex
Feb 5, 2011

Nothing better than swinging around a little girl like a flail.

Nomadic Scholar posted:

So would it be better to try and roll a second Heracles to have a +1 np on him?

No. Overcharge effects happen regardless, however they are affected by having multiple NPs chained. Getting NP2 on any given servant allows access to 200% NP gauge and increases both damage and their overcharge effect but you will still need to actually get to 200% NP on that servant in combat to make use of it. Don't try getting duplicates immediately, they're not that important.

InfinityComplex fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2017 around 20:52

Decus
Feb 24, 2013


NRVNQSR posted:

As I understand it we're currently expecting to get:
  • Tutorial 10-pull with a guaranteed random tutorial servant.
  • One extra tutorial servant of our choice
  • 42 extra quartz
  • Welfare Saber Lily and a bunch of other random stuff
So if you're grinding for a specific 5* it sounds like each reroll will give you a bit over 20 pulls? How long would it take to play enough tutorial to get 18 more quartz?

The tutorial 10-pull cannot contains 5* so you only get one 10-pull for that. For the second it's hard to say how long it'd take until we know more details, like whether we have Start Dash in at launch. Without Start Dash and its free 12 quartz for clearing the prologue you'd actually need to do all of the prologue including free quests and some of ch1 to get enough but with Start Dash you'd only need to do the story missions in the prologue. I doubt we'll get it and instead feel like they'll add it in after the 42 quartz campaign ends in august.

Unless you want Altria Horta or whatever they call her in your roll pool it's probably faster to just roll all that you've got right after the tutorial roll. For 5* you shouldn't need to be doing full 10-pulls since I very much doubt that the odds are higher than 1% even for the 3* or higher servant slot or the 4* or higher anything slot.

Captain Keene
Dec 20, 2012


NRVNQSR posted:

Really? You can get multiple 4* Servants from it, though. Does it not just make nine normal rolls then pick a tutorial 4*?

5* servants are explicitly excluded from the tutorial draw. Likely to cut down on the rerolling but as if that's ever stopped rerollers.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

Spiked salad forks in velvet evening gowns?!

Seahorsesteak knives in frilly skirts?!

TEASPOONS IN TEA DRESSES?!


College Slice

Do you get a noticeable leg up if you reroll for a second 4* in the tutorial roll?

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009


InfinityComplex posted:

No. Overcharge effects happen regardless, however they are affected by having multiple NPs chained. Getting NP2 on any given servant allows access to 200% NP gauge and increases both damage and their overcharge effect but you will still need to actually get to 200% NP on that servant in combat to make use of it. Don't try getting duplicates immediately, they're not that important.

I agree that it sounds like a bad choice - unless Hercules is your husbando, I guess - but I thought that some NP effects like Herc's damage just went up automatically with level even if you don't overcharge them?

Captain Keene posted:

5* servants are explicitly excluded from the tutorial draw. Likely to cut down on the rerolling but as if that's ever stopped rerollers.

Ah, okay. Also I guess since it automatically forces you to put the tutorial 4* into your party they don't want a situation where the game's forcing you to pass over an "obviously better" Servant.

Captain Keene
Dec 20, 2012


cheetah7071 posted:

Do you get a noticeable leg up if you reroll for a second 4* in the tutorial roll?

I'm not sure if the tutorial roll explicitly forbids a second 4* or not. However it all depends on who you get for how much of an advantage you will get. A 3* analysis hasn't been posted yet, but there are a TON of good and effective 3* servants available.

Edit- quick rundown for those interested

Saber: Caesar
Lancer: FSN CuChulainn, Prototype CuChulainn (to a lesser extent)
Archer: All of them. No seriously all of them, the design space here is surprisingly well conceived.
Caster: Medea, Paracelsus, CuChulainn
Rider: Medusa, Ushiwakamaru
Assassin: Fuma Kotaro, the other two Hassans (although it will take a while for these to be added)
Berserker: Kiyohime for AoE, LuBu for sheer absurd damage numbers

Captain Keene fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2017 around 21:10

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009


Captain Keene posted:

I'm not sure if the tutorial roll explicitly forbids a second 4* or not. However it all depends on who you get for how much of an advantage you will get. A 3* analysis hasn't been posted yet, but there are a TON of good and effective 3* servants available.

You can definitely get a second 4* on the tutorial roll in the JP version; I was playing around with it earlier today to see how it runs on my devices and got an Emiya+Carmilla roll.

edit: In fact looking at it again that tutorial 10-roll had two 4* CEs as well, which seems kind of insane.

NRVNQSR fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2017 around 21:14

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



it's not like there's any pvp or competitive content like there is in granblue, and every event and all the story modes are beatable with just 3*s

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Only four left for big boy here, so he's all but useless.



Some Servants do benefit from raising their Noble Phantasm, but they happen to mostly be 3-Stars and under, so if you play long enough you'll have them all at max NP anyway.

For example, Robin Hood goes from 900% damage at level 1 to 1500% damage at level 5.

Edit: Ushiwakamaru goes from 1200% to 2000%, 2400% after her strengthening quest.

MonsieurChoc fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2017 around 21:16

Decus
Feb 24, 2013


Don't go for volume compared to going for what you like/would actually enjoy using. If you want 3 specific 4* units over any specific 5* unit though it's about the same probability given the pick so re-rolling for two of them using the tutorial wouldn't be so bad. Exact math for re-rolling the tutorial for a specific pair of 4* and then saving all your quartz is (1-(1-.03/10)^8)*.1 = .24% whereas rolling for a specific 5* using all of your quartz is (1-(1-.01/5)^14) = .28%. Oops, it's actually 2.8% and only .28% if you also want a specific 4*, which I guess would be wanting 2 specific 4* in addition to the 5* since we get the pick.

If you really, really want a 5* available in a later gacha might be worth aiming for the tutorial roll bounty and saving the 42 we're given, I guess.

Decus fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2017 around 23:00

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009


Decus posted:

Don't go for volume compared to going for what you like/would actually enjoy using. If you want 3 specific 4* units over any specific 5* unit though it's about the same probability given the pick so re-rolling for two of them using the tutorial wouldn't be so bad. Exact math for re-rolling the tutorial for a specific pair of 4* and then saving all your quartz is (1-(1-.03/10)^8)*.1 = .24% whereas rolling for a specific 5* using all of your quartz is (1-(1-.01/5)^14) = .28%.

I think you misplaced the decimal point on that second one; I make it 2.8%, not .28%?

Decus
Feb 24, 2013


NRVNQSR posted:

I think you misplaced the decimal point on that second one; I make it 2.8%, not .28%?

Ah, yep. Had thought the result was weird and that'd be why.

edit: And now I figured it out, meant for the 5* example to also want a specific 4* in the tutorial which doesn't make as much sense as it did before we got the servant pick.

Decus fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2017 around 23:00

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

So I give this all about equal odds of either going super well or, uh, gettin' us all killed. Messily.

So a couple of prayers from you guys wouldn't hurt, yeah?


cheetah7071 posted:

What do you do with duplicates in this game? Can you deploy both? Should you, ever? Do you use the dupe to power up the original, or do you mulch it for a resource?

To answer the bolded: unlike many other games, you cannot, in fact, deploy multiples of the same character. If you have another character's alternate version they can deploy together - so say you have Altria Alter and Altria Lily, they can deploy together, but if you have two Alters you can only put one on the team. This is one of the things I like, since it encourages the use of a good deal of your roster.

Extra copies are exclusively for powering up the Noble Phantasms of a given unit.

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life,
I think I've gone too far.


JP version dropped a date for the next EoR, the 28th, and also showed the new Caster's ascended form (dem titties). Gotta clear the last Singularity to access it.

SpaceDrake posted:

They haven't announced pricing, but here's some depression for you: F/GO's setup is actually one of the better gacha/price setups in Japan currently and that's a key part of why it's so successful. It has a pack of quartz that is perfect for impulse 10-pulls, and a lot of JP players go for it. And thanks to favorable currency conversions, any American playing the JP version actually pays less.

To add more information on this pricing: The most expensive pack in the JP version is US $81.54 right now, for a total of 140 quartz. At the current quartz cost, that's just under 5 10-pulls.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



SpaceDrake posted:

And given how many heavy hitters in this game are, naturally, women...
It is actually interesting to note how almost all of the best support servants in the game are guys. Hans, Zhuge, Merlin...

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012



thats all men are good for

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic

Stairmaster posted:

thats all men are good for

I was going to say the good doctor but he is mission control

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Only four left for big boy here, so he's all but useless.



You say, but all I hear is "THE GOOD DOCTOR HAS TO PAY!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LChtBpTjvTY

EPIC fat guy vids
Feb 3, 2011

That is quite an impressive beast you have there, Manipulator. Very intriguing.


Wasn't Altera a tutorial 5* roll?

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

That sure is some posting.


Nope.

Bakanogami
Dec 31, 2004



I really want them to add an EMIYA Lily servant who's just plain old Shirou.

InfinityComplex
Feb 5, 2011

Nothing better than swinging around a little girl like a flail.

That might happen because of a certain movie.

ugh its Troika
May 2, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


At launch you could roll Jeanne on your free roll. That was the only 5 star you could get for free back then.

serefin99
Apr 15, 2016

Mikoooon~
Your lovely shrine maiden fox wife, Tamamo no Mae, is here to help!


Bakanogami posted:

I really want them to add an EMIYA Lily servant who's just plain old Shirou.

One of my friends is an EMIYA/Shirou fanatic and he would positively freak out if they did that.

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life,
I think I've gone too far.


How does your friend feel about EMIYA Alter, then?

Kay Kessler
May 9, 2013


InfinityComplex posted:

That might happen because of a certain movie.

Would rather have an Avenger Sakura if we're doing movie tie-ins.

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014



InfinityComplex posted:

That might happen because of a certain movie.

Not exactly a plain Shirou but I'd be down as hell to see that. Miyu and Bazett too pls

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010




Where's the Tsukihime crossover, I need PCiel as a Berserker. And Kouma. And Aoko. And regular Ciel.

Also, on Lily, I'd dig an Altera Lily. But she exists and the screen can't handle Titan Altera.

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010


I wonder what they'll do for the Apcrypha tie-in.

Tribladeofchaos
Jul 2, 2008

IT'S SHOWTIME!

The only servants from Apocrypha that aren't in game are Chiron, Achilles, and Semiramis so it will probably be them. Solomon isn't either but I don't see him coming in for the event.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



the game's files have also had a listing for saber astolfo since launch so either that'll be in the summer event or that'll be in the apocrypha event

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Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

That sure is some posting.


Maybe more additions from the Apocrypha cast, like Semiramis. I'd really like Semiramis.

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