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areyoucontagious
Jun 13, 2007

Hell is other people.


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Here's the one thing, that really as far as I see it, is a linchpin to solving the game.

Quid sacked himself. Was he scum though?

If your answer is yes, I think it makes BK and Ecco look worse. If your answer is no, it certainly makes them both look worse.

BK in spite of ecco's praise, has actually done very little aside from further confusing the game.

Id also wager that ecco's posts, much like the claim raised against pera, are significantly fluff.

I think it's them and I think quid just gave into rage.

I really skimmed this before but now I like it. The only thing that complicates things is that peras investigation into Ecco resulted as town. If bk is scum he's acting alone. I think quid was scum. I think bk is lying. I think the roles are cop/jailer.

Obviously a no dunk is still viable today, but I'm strongly considering voting with pmush and pera right now.

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PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

Sorry I kept you waiting.


areyoucontagious posted:

I really skimmed this before but now I like it. The only thing that complicates things is that peras investigation into Ecco resulted as town. If bk is scum he's acting alone. I think quid was scum. I think bk is lying. I think the roles are cop/jailer.

Obviously a no dunk is still viable today, but I'm strongly considering voting with pmush and pera right now.
If the game isn't over tomorrow, then we look at the possibility that Ecco's a Godfather, or that there's another scum in general, but I don't think there's anyone that disagrees that dropping BK is the right move.

areyoucontagious
Jun 13, 2007

Hell is other people.


Ok. I'm convinced. ##vote bk

I'd really like to hear from AA before pera hammers, though

areyoucontagious
Jun 13, 2007

Hell is other people.


Haha I'm a dummy that can't count

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


PMush Perfect posted:

But, real talk, Ecco? This is a choice powered by salt and spite. Looking back at this game, I'll be able to say "We had this in the bag, and Ecco threw it away on stupid gambits". And if we lose this, if that does happen, I think I'm going to need to stop playing Mafia with you for a while because I am IRL mad at you right now and I don't trust myself to not drag that into future games.

We both know you are lying, so posting stuff like this that gets personal is just going to be extra disrespectful when the game is over and we learn the truth.

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


Oh. Just caught up. Sorry Kash.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Bk dead it nighht

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Ecco dead


Pmush and peramene, scum team, win the game.

Only power role in this game was a single doc

areyoucontagious
Jun 13, 2007

Hell is other people.


God damnit

areyoucontagious
Jun 13, 2007

Hell is other people.


I'm never believing anything you say again pera

Pmush, you were very convincing on D3

Also I kinda liked flipless, although it needs to have people play that are much better at Mafia than me.

I had a great time arguing with you all. Thanks for making my first game back in a long time fun.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


who could have seen that coming.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


things I have learned this game:
- vigenere ciphers can be broken by computers

things I already knew this game:
- townies shouldn't self-hammer for funsies
- if someone isn't posting in a way that helps the town you should vote for them regardless of their alignment
- if power roles don't make sense trust how the players have posted instead


I take full personal responsibility for my own mistakes for this loss but it was really james comey's fault.

areyoucontagious
Jun 13, 2007

Hell is other people.


EccoRaven posted:

things I have learned this game:
- vigenere ciphers can be broken by computers

things I already knew this game:
- townies shouldn't self-hammer for funsies
- if someone isn't posting in a way that helps the town you should vote for them regardless of their alignment
- if power roles don't make sense trust how the players have posted instead


I take full personal responsibility for my own mistakes for this loss but it was really james comey's fault.

Your posts about the jailer claim being so ridiculous and why would scum post something so dumb really threw me for a loop. That said, I was feeling pmush beginning of day, and the just got taken in by her posting. I too blame Comey for this.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


areyoucontagious posted:

Your posts about the jailer claim being so ridiculous and why would scum post something so dumb really threw me for a loop. That said, I was feeling pmush beginning of day, and the just got taken in by her posting. I too blame Comey for this.

it doesn't make sense to claim jailor; despite them winning it really was sub-optimal play for the reasons I listed.

essentially I should have stopped posting after this post here. I should have just voted and gone on with my life instead of continuing to engage the PP Squad. So I guess that was my "Arizona instead of Wisconsin" moment.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

In returns to come, remember
always and forever
that future,
your family, your people
they are worth the fight for.
If today the sands will it:
goodbye, my friend.


areyoucontagious posted:

I'm never believing anything you say again pera

It really is for the best not to trust me ever. I play these games in the hope of releasing some of the tension that builds up when I don't hurt people. I do my best to remain within the.. perameters... in the hopes that nobody gets hurt.

I anticipated going in that being scum without flips should be very simple and elegant because there would be no need to rely on my partner whatsoever for coordination, and as a result, no one would weigh me down.

The cop-claim breadcrumb was real, as was most of what I said on d3, which bothers me quite sincerely - for my part, I took advantage of honest mistakes by town and barely got to lie at all.

The real credit for this win should go to mush, who imo despite constantly encouraging me (Kash said our scumdoc is - peraphrasing here, the busiest?) and constantly coming up with fun and innovative ideas. Whatever part of credit is mine is due purely to luck, humility, and bloodlust.

I'm glad you had fun, AYC. <3 I am, of course, available to argue with on discord.

No breakdown was real, the insults were legitimately offensive, and I maintain that neither my posts nor Ecco's consist of "padding," insisting otherwise is as preposterous as insisting that all lurkers are scum. Everyone speaks in their own fashion, expecting - demanding - compliance to speak as others do, especially as part of assimilation into a community adversely impacted by conformity.

Ecco, AYC slammed you down in 5 minutes. You were so sure of yourself and your system that you had the audacity to say it should become commonplace. As a player, mod, member of this community, and as my earnest self - that is not mafia, that is not fun or interesting, and I am so grateful to AYC for actually taking the time to correct you; nothing to do with winning or losing, while I knew what I was saying was true and that you were wrong, I sincerely hope AYC's demonstration makes clear to you the price of assuming the right to command simply because of your intelligence and skill. Down that road is evil, and I've never met anyone who knows that better than I do.

I'm not here to optimize my play. That you continue to insult us is as infuriating as it is predictable. Like grody says, a win is a win, it doesn't matter how it happens.

Thank you for the game, Kash.
Congratulations, sweetheart. Scum with you was as enjoyable as anticipated.

areyoucontagious
Jun 13, 2007

Hell is other people.


That was a good post. I liked the breakdown. I guess I just got bamboozled.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


peramene posted:

I'm not here to optimize my play. That you continue to insult us is as infuriating as it is predictable. Like grody says, a win is a win, it doesn't matter how it happens.

you accused me of emotionally abusing you.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

In returns to come, remember
always and forever
that future,
your family, your people
they are worth the fight for.
If today the sands will it:
goodbye, my friend.


Try not to make so many grammatical errors when addressing a genius, Sara, you loving idiot.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

In returns to come, remember
always and forever
that future,
your family, your people
they are worth the fight for.
If today the sands will it:
goodbye, my friend.


EccoRaven posted:

you accused me of emotionally abusing you.

You spent hours insisting on a false premise and demanding compliance based on the obviousness of how little you were asking. I drove people to try to kill themselves, Ecco, I know gaslighting when I see it, and the fact that you were wrong doesn't change what you were doing.

AND I honestly said it under the assumption that we must be in a multiball setup and I'd get to show off catching you in a lie. I believed you were lying because I anticipated a woman as brilliant as you are would take five minutes to google her premises rather than simply expect obedience and watch cartoons.

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


EccoRaven posted:

I take full personal responsibility for my own mistakes for this loss but it was really james comey's fault.

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


I don't understand why people got so mad about the cyphers.

People got really mad at ecco this game in a way that just doesn't make sense to me, tbh.

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


I'm not saying I played perfectly (I had about 3 mistakes that I would do differently) but I got pretty heated by the idea that claiming jailor was so bad that it was more likely to be true. When you know that reasoning is wrong, it just eats away at you.

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


Basically, the experiment was a success. Flipless games suck rear end. We still don't know if they favor scum but my saltiness about the loss will lead me to say it does.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


EccoRaven posted:

🎶 pera and quiddy, being best friends, together forever the scum never end, making bad cases one post at a time, pera and quiddy: two of a kind 🎶

Mafia post of the year, likely the decade, possibly all time

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Scumdoc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...DJ63btOlaD47t5U

Flipless games are based too much on supposition and assuming without actual hard evidence to back it up

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

Sorry I kept you waiting.


I'm actually really flattered by pera's insistence that it was my win. But honestly? My absurd ideas would never have stuck without her conviction to consider them seriously and help work out which ones were plausible.

I made some final comments in the doc, and bolded a lot of things I wanted people to see post game along the way.

Fun facts:
- Ecco, I really am making a very hard examination of my gut-based town play, especially after D1. I was never more convincing than when I broke things down with logic, sound or not.
- That "I didn't call up my breadcrumb because people could think it was made to mean anything"? Actually true. If I'd trusted it, I'd have ripped it out D2 right with my claim to have jailed. Instead, I pulled it out later after I was already throwing things at the wall to see what stuck.
- I pulled jailor out of my rear end 5 minutes into D2 because I really was scared of a tracker and considered that, worst case scenario, we'd get a PR to counterclaim and hopefully split the vote.
- For anyone who doesn't want to go through the whole thing: We legit considered killing nobody N1, we DID kill nobody N2, and our plan for N3 if we didn't get BK was to night kill me.
- I feel kinda bad about being such an rear end in a top hat this game, but pera assuring me that it was barely a blip on the rear end in a top hat-O-Meter did help me from doubting myself and torpedoing my fake outrage lies because of it.
- I wasn't really faking my anger so much as method acting it, and it was exhausting.

I guess I've got a lot of words to say. This was fun, and the Pp team was as fantastic as I knew it would be, but drat is flipless a weird setup. Kind of the opposite issue of Drawfia. Instead of all flips, no discussion, it's all discussion, no flips. Both massively favor scum.

Thanks for modding, Kash!

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

In returns to come, remember
always and forever
that future,
your family, your people
they are worth the fight for.
If today the sands will it:
goodbye, my friend.


QED

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

In returns to come, remember
always and forever
that future,
your family, your people
they are worth the fight for.
If today the sands will it:
goodbye, my friend.


I guess I'll put my top back on now

areyoucontagious
Jun 13, 2007

Hell is other people.


Ah that loving scum doc. I was useless d1! I should have stuck to my guns.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!


I didn't self-hammer for "funsies," you were so un-fun to interact with at that point I just wanted out of the game immediately

I nearly posted my role PM but that was even more against the spirit of the game so I refrained. But i was peeved!

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

Sorry I kept you waiting.


areyoucontagious posted:

Ah that loving scum doc. I was useless d1! I should have stuck to my guns.
You weren't useless at all, you had me sweating all through D1 and D2, and most of our D3 plans were about convincing you to go along with me, directly or indirectly.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012



Grimey Drawer

I genuinely can't believe anybody bought that ridiculous scum claim especially when bk countered with the much simpler solution

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012



Grimey Drawer

We need more vanilla games

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

I apologize for the cage.


...- --- .. -.-. . / ..-. .-. .. . -. -.. / -... .- -..
VOICE FRIEND BAD


I think flipless games work well as an occasional event, and there was solid casing in this game for the most part. I think it would have worked BETTER as a semi-open setup, but c'est la vie.

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

Sorry I kept you waiting.


Kashuno posted:

I genuinely can't believe anybody bought that ridiculous scum claim especially when bk countered with the much simpler solution
Hey, Jailor's not too outlandish a role.

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Max
Nov 30, 2002



Haha, holy poo poo, for a game like this it really is but well played on pulling it off.

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