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girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


You go get some more sleep, too. You're not thinking clearly.

There are exactly three options here
1: Ecco is town
2: Ecco is a godfather
3: You're lying
(Preview edit: 4: You're a naive cop. I don't think those even get used any more, do they? That would be a pretty bastard role for an experiment game.)

I didn't and still don't believe 3, so either Ecco is town, or a Godfather.

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girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


God I just want to turbo BK so bad. Weekend days are always loving deadzones, and I got poo poo to do Monday. I won't argue if town says wait, but if we no lynch because of no activity I will break a record in how loud someone screams the word gently caress.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


gently caress it, I'm going to go do something else for a few hours until people wake up before I work myself into a frenzy and make thirty shitposts about XKCD and Corey In The House

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


peramene posted:

Ecco - I'm... sorry?

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


(I hate the way it ends.)

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


peramene posted:

I don't get it. The tone v content, the slapfighting, the "logic is logic" followed by contradicting premises, stating and restating the obvious just-not-quite there? either something is seriously hosed up with my sanity (in game, I mean) or Ecco is innocent.

you got it into your head (for some bizarre reason) that I was scum and you then looked at every single one of my posts with that thought in mind. it's pretty bog standard observer bias. in the future you would be best to assume nothing and let people's posts speak for themselves, not the other way around. or just have more self-awareness so you know when you're not acting rationally and you can act accordingly.

===

so as far as I can tell it's still pera/PMush or BK/?.

it still doesn't make sense for PMush as scum to claim jailor like she did. However, BK has been playing a more townie game, and it was clear he was intending to counterclaim PMush as soon as Mush claimed.

I kinda want to no-vote again. :toot:

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


EccoRaven posted:

you got it into your head (for some bizarre reason) that I was scum and you then looked at every single one of my posts with that thought in mind. it's pretty bog standard observer bias. in the future you would be best to assume nothing and let people's posts speak for themselves, not the other way around. or just have more self-awareness so you know when you're not acting rationally and you can act accordingly.

===

so as far as I can tell it's still pera/PMush or BK/?.

it still doesn't make sense for PMush as scum to claim jailor like she did. However, BK has been playing a more townie game, and it was clear he was intending to counterclaim PMush as soon as Mush claimed.

I kinda want to no-vote again. :toot:

I wish you'd pointed out that an inno on you was useless, too. I hate this loving role.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


EccoRaven posted:

I kinda want to no-vote again. :toot:
Jesus Christ, please don't.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


PMush Perfect posted:

Jesus Christ, please don't.

why not?

scum can't kill anyone in that triangle, it would condemn one of their own. Scum would have to kill within AA/AYC/me, but doing so lets pera get another "investigation" out (and also lets you get a "jail" out and BK a "protection" out, since at this point everyone should be targeting AYC/AA/me for all their actions from now on).

I dunno, I'm not seeing the downside here, aside from impatience, which is not something flipless games reward.

peramene posted:

I wish you'd pointed out that an inno on you was useless, too. I hate this loving role.

you should have realized that on your own. It's not my place to tell you how to use your role in a public forum.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Hmmm

##unvote

Not totally convinced, having this kind of mexican standoff WIFOM bugs me, but willing to hear it out.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


EccoRaven posted:

you should have realized that on your own. It's not my place to tell you how to use your role in a public forum.

I agree with the first sentence, and I also agree with the second sentence, except bitterly point out that you literally did do so.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Hmmmm

Just thought of something, gimme a sec.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


IF BK IS TELLING THE TRUTH:

He successfully doc'd AYC, meaning either the scum tried to kill AYC or they withheld the kill. It also means scum (which would be pera/PMush) probably don't have a roleblocker since blocking BK would make a lot of sense, especially since then PMush could say "look, BK's action failed, that's proof! I'm what I say I am!".


IF PERA/PMUSH ARE TELLING THE TRUTH:

BK performed the kill last night but was jailed. Why would BK perform the kill? It would be a stupid thing, he'd have to either think the risk of getting jailed was very low (unreasonable, it was obvious PMush would jail the person she knows to be scum) OR BK is the only remaining scum and so he had to perform the kill.

BK being the only remaining scum means Quidnose was his scumbuddy, and BK then went into a hard bus on Quidnose (early in his posting, but halfway into Day 1 in reality) for literally no reason. In flipless games the scum suffer virtually no penalty for sticking their necks out for each other and receive virtually no reward for bussing each other. In this extreme case, Quidnose played a very scummy game and then decided to self-hammer (essentially sealing the "Quidnose is scum" belief). There was no reason to think that Quidnose would do any of that when BK voted for him or when BK cased him. By the time BK came back to the thread it was still very much up in the air about who was going down that day - it wasn't like Quidnose was a forgone conclusion and BK was just making a rational calculus.

BK's behavior doesn't make sense if Quidnose is scum. But if Quidnose was town, then it doesn't make sense that BK would perform the nightkill - he had to know he'd be jailed which would bolster the case against him.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


peramene posted:

I agree with the first sentence, and I also agree with the second sentence, except bitterly point out that you literally did do so.

did not:

EccoRaven posted:

ideally you wouldn't tell the scum whom you're investigating since that gives them the opportunity to use their resources more effectively.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


peramene posted:

Unless there are two scum. Because 5 survivors means 3 votes to lynch. One townie mistake, scumrush, game. Which you loving KNOW, Ecco!!
Ecco what do you think of the possibility that we're at 4/2?

Consider the following possibility: We don't vote anyone today. Tonight, they either kill me or pera. Tomorrow, it's 5/3. One town vote on anyone means that BK and whoever come out and hammer.

The more I think about it, the more i'd much, much rather bet on my BK to put us at either 4/1 or winning, rather than I would at being put at either 4/1 or 3/2.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Mafia edit: 3/2. 5 players, 3 town. Not 5 town, 3 scum.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


PMush Perfect posted:

Consider the following possibility: We don't vote anyone today. Tonight, they either kill me or pera.
if they kill you or pera it condemns BK. Pera dying at night means (barring something stupid) she's town, and if she's town then you're town, and if you're town then BK is scum. the same analysis works for you, too. (it also works for BK.)

I don't think "a townie MIGHT vote for someone other than the one player who would logically be the scum in this triangle!" a very persuasive reason to vote for someone today over tomorrow.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

What if scum have no night kill and the powers are pointless, well not pointless, but only serve go obfuscate.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

I had this thought driving home yesterday but forgot about it.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

What if scum have no night kill and the powers are pointless, well not pointless, but only serve go obfuscate.

the way I've been approaching the roles today is, "would this be stupid even in a game that reveals flips," and if the answer is yes then I dismiss it as a reasonable possibility.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

If it is truly a practice in theory, wouldn't roles also be a farce.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

EccoRaven posted:

the way I've been approaching the roles today is, "would this be stupid even in a game that reveals flips," and if the answer is yes then I dismiss it as a reasonable possibility.

As in stupid to include, a stupid claim, what so you mean?

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I mean essentially if Kashuno decided that a "game to see if flipless games can work as normal mafia games" could also have things like insane cops, nightkill-less scum, and/or scum busdrivers in a closed setup, then it's a stupid game and I won't have appreciated playing it and won't consider a loss, on those terms, to be a fair one.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


On that point, Ecco, we're in perfect agreement.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


if we assume this game is a PieC9, like I suggested to Kashuno in the first place, that solves the game.

why kashuno wouldn't announce the setup publicly I don't know, but so it goes.

if this game is a (secret) PieC9, then PMush has to be lying - there can be no jailor in a PieC9. There can be a cop and a doctor, but if there's both a cop and a doctor then there's a mafia roleblocker. It doesn't make sense for PMush to be a mafia roleblocker since that would mean pera is a real cop, and so pera then would be a mafia goon, PMush also a goon, and the only town power role is BK the Doctor.

what are the odds that pera only thought to claim cop once I posted my chatlog. :raise:

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


This is WIFOM hell.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

What if scum have no night kill and the powers are pointless, well not pointless, but only serve go obfuscate.

This is the game we are playing now. It wasn't true yesterday. It is officially true today.

No-lynching is pointless. Since I've realized it, I know BK has. Neither he nor PMush can do the same person twice in a row; none of my results from here on out are worth a drat save a guilty on you or AYC.

And frankly? I know that isn't coming.

EccoRaven posted:

if we assume this game is a PieC9, like I suggested to Kashuno in the first place, that solves the game.

why kashuno wouldn't announce the setup publicly I don't know, but so it goes.

if this game is a (secret) PieC9, then PMush has to be lying - there can be no jailor in a PieC9. There can be a cop and a doctor, but if there's both a cop and a doctor then there's a mafia roleblocker. It doesn't make sense for PMush to be a mafia roleblocker since that would mean pera is a real cop, and so pera then would be a mafia goon, PMush also a goon, and the only town power role is BK the Doctor.

what are the odds that pera only thought to claim cop once I posted my chatlog. :raise:

Does your chatlog come before or after I said I'd be investigating mush?

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Ecco, realtalk.

You don't actually believe it could be a PieC9, do you? Do you really think that Kash would use exactly the setup you suggested in the game you're in, with the gimmick that there's no flips? And if you actually do believe that, why the gently caress would you post the chat logs and then waffle about it. That's not scummy, that's just lovely-person.

This is a gambit, or filler.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


PMush Perfect posted:

Ecco, realtalk.

You don't actually believe it could be a PieC9, do you? Do you really think that Kash would use exactly the setup you suggested in the game you're in, with the gimmick that there's no flips? And if you actually do believe that, why the gently caress would you post the chat logs and then waffle about it. That's not scummy, that's just lovely-person.

This is a gambit, or filler.

oh my god stop stop STOP

I'M DONE

##vote BK

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


lines like these bother me:

peramene posted:

<cop claim>
Ecco, I'd love to know if you're a roleblocker. Thanks for giving us the setup. <3

peramene posted:

You POSTED the SETUP

if pera believes I "posted the setup" by posting that chatlog, then pera would have to think PMush was lying about being a jailor (for reasons?) and that the kill was blocked (for other reasons?) but that it wasn't BK who performed it (for further reasons??).

it looks and feels like pera, who was clearly running hot yesterday afternoon, claimed cop because I posted the chatlog and she thought (not rationally) that this would be the best fakeclaim to make in the moment to condemn me and BK. then again if pera was not thinking things through fully, there's a chance she's truth-telling town doing the same thing.

but those posts still bother me.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


peramene posted:

Does your chatlog come before or after I said I'd be investigating mush?

much after, but your "I'd be investigating PMush" is really, really not a credible breadcrumb, considering the timing.

it felt super ad hoc, to be honest.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


mafia edit:

EccoRaven posted:

that it wasn't BK who performed it (for further reasons??)

the second "it" being "the doctor protection that blocked the nightkill"

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Okay wait why the gently caress am I letting you convince me to not hammer BK. It's as likely as anything that you're scum.

If AYC or AA are scum, then GG, y'all loving earned it.

##vote BK

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


I guess I have to take a stab at him. Right? Fine.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


PMush Perfect posted:

You don't actually believe it could be a PieC9, do you? Do you really think that Kash would use exactly the setup you suggested in the game you're in, with the gimmick that there's no flips? And if you actually do believe that, why the gently caress would you post the chat logs and then waffle about it. That's not scummy, that's just lovely-person.

this is a really defensive post.

I said it was a possibility. If it were true, then it would mean you and pera are scum together.

I believe it is a reasonable possibility; PieC9 is a standard, fairly-balanced setup. There's a chance he missed my suggestion (or saw it but decided not to run with it), but there's also a chance he did see it and did decide to do it.

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


PMush Perfect posted:

Okay wait why the gently caress am I letting you convince me to not hammer BK. It's as likely as anything that you're scum.

If AYC or AA are scum, then GG, y'all loving earned it.

##vote BK

god drat it, if Ecco were scum the NK would've gone through

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


PMush Perfect posted:

Okay wait why the gently caress am I letting you convince me to not hammer BK. It's as likely as anything that you're scum.

in order for me to be scum, pera would also have to be scum, or I'd have to be a godfather. If you think I'm scum with BK then you need to reconcile our play today and yesterday because it directly contradicts each other for seemingly no scum gain other than to sow confusion (unnecessarily so).

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


ECCO IS TOWN

WHY THE gently caress DID YOU CLAIM JAILER

WHY THE gently caress COUNTERCLAIM EARLIER

WHY THE gently caress CAN'T BK DOC HIMSELF OR TWICE IN A ROW

FOR gently caress'S SAKE COULD YOU HAVE AT LEAST COUNTERCLAIMED ME

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


seeing pera and PMush both flip the heck out at suggesting "hey maybe we should no-vote again" and "hey maybe there's something to this setup being a pieC9" is also not very comforting.

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peramene
Oct 13, 2015

Just peramene.


HELLO PMOM ARE YOU ENJOYING MY MELTDOWN BECAUSE HERE WE loving GO

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