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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


let's put theory to practice.

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


So the thing with flipless mafia is that it requires people to actually put effort into posts so others can get a good feel for their tone - do they sound sincere, do they sound forthright, do they sound like they're hiding something.

There is going to be a learning curve, too, and that's alright! But you have to try is the thing. If you slack off and go an entire day or more without posting then we're in the dark.

So, even more so than most mafia games, "this player is lurking" is a really good reason to vote for someone.


As such: ##vote quid for lurking.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


BottleKnight posted:

Father's Day was yesterday

and you didn't even give me a phone call.

PMush Perfect posted:

If you reach any fatha, we'll all be dad

3/10

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


PMush Perfect posted:

Didn't have enough pop?

3.5/10

areyoucontagious posted:

Ugh, stop with the puns! Just shut that FILF-y mouth of yours.

... Ok, that one got away from me.

1/10

areyoucontagious posted:

Yeah, but maybe cool it with the joke votes? It's four to hammer and it wouldn't be impossible for scum to jump on your two votes?

scum could do that, but it would also be really obvious that they're scum for doing that, so they're probably not going to do that.

it's a simple first-level WIFOM analysis.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


See, low-quality posts like those are what'll kill the town and make this experiment even more of a farce than it already is.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


areyoucontagious posted:

I'm going to play the rookie card and ask is this just how you post? The whole "I'm taking the high ground and posting quality content" lofty snark would seem p. Scummy otherwise

If someone posts Quality Content then they're probably town, that's sort of how the game works, especially in a flipless situation.

In order for town to make sense of their choices (rather than just voting semi-randomly) town players should all be striving to post Quality Content. Scum players will then stick out as people not posting Quality Content. If scum try to post Quality Content, they will most likely come off as clumsy or otherwise insincere.

That's the meat of the game.


The full story is that Kash is running this game to "prove" that flipless games are bad, spurred by me saying "flipless games are good." So I have an interest in this game being a competitive (or at least ordinary) game of mafia beyond just being in the game itself.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Quidthulhu posted:

i'm torn because i don't believe ecco is actually going down this path (reads as major tongue in cheek meta joking about who she is to me) but sara is believing her hook-line-and-sinker and that is dangerous so it makes me wonder if maybe this is an EccoGambit


ecco is this an EccoGambit???

My vote for you is not intended to be a legitimate vote against you, except insofar as you're bad at mafia and it might be good to keep pressure on you early on.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Quidthulhu posted:

maybe you should not be sitting on a joke vote on me then :v:

nah I'm fine with it right now.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


That'd be more clever if I was actually bad at mafia.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I'm pretty sure that's just how pera is with everyone.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I'm not a fan of Quidnose's bait and switch there. He's grumpy at pera for taking my vote on him more seriously than it warrants, but he holds me accountable for it and wants me to explain it. I dunno, it doesn't sit right.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now



do you have any substantive thoughts about the game so far or is "let's shitpost at ecco" your only trick.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


why wouldn't there be a night phase.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now



so that's a no.

##unvote ##vote pmush

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

It's 4 votes to executes and we still have most of 2 days until deadline.

Let's not rush it.

this is the second or third time you've expressed worry about us hammering too quickly when nobody has suggested we should do so or even hinted that it was a possibility.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

You're at half the required vote. People need not express intent to act. I'd say most of the time people do not, and simply act. Scum would always have incentive to do this, but more so in flipless, do you not agree?

I think anyone who decides to hammer someone else when it was abundantly clear that the day was not yet over is scummy as hell. I think scum know that. I don't think this is a rational concern on your part.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


does anyone have any reason to think mushroom is town rn

literally any?

didn't think so.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


re:ayc vs aa

you were both silly in being worried about an early hammer and it honestly felt more like "I am just going to manufacture something to say right now" than a serious concern.

I dunno, I'm also not liking AA for that crappy summary post, but it had a lot of words too so.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I've explained why I made an emphasis in people taking this game seriously:

EccoRaven posted:

The full story is that Kash is running this game to "prove" that flipless games are bad, spurred by me saying "flipless games are good." So I have an interest in this game being a competitive (or at least ordinary) game of mafia beyond just being in the game itself.

and regardless "says good things but but is just saying good things for the sake of saying good things!" is a really lovely and lazy (and pro-scum) case.

peramene posted:

I don't like this because it's in favor of long posts with many words which unfairly advantages myself and yourself. Which would be the ultimate scum team and gently caress You to you which is why I'm wondering Kash didn't do it. I was looking forward to it. :(

more words does not necessarily mean better than. For instance, half of this quote is worthless padding, and I don't think you're town for it.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

To call my points light is an unfair assessment when I actually made the effort to explain them, even if some are more brief than others.

Also BK, you are officially lurking at this point, what's up?
yeah it was a really lovely case, but it makes sense because pmush hasn't put in any effort into this game so far (aside from being the spongebob tYpInG eAcH lEtTeR meme personified).

I would vote for BK too, I feel like when he rolls scum his instinct is to lurk. This might be unfounded but it's a feeling.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Right now I'm feeling pmush is the scummiest based on play. BK had a family thing last night but he's been a non-entity even before then. I'm liking AA's gumption. And I don't like AYC.

If the scum are outside of pmush, BK, and AYC then they're doing an okay job and should feel okay with themselves.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


areyoucontagious posted:

What does this even mean?
I'm getting a good feel from AA's posts.

areyoucontagious posted:

You've been absolutely running this show, and I won't argue that you've been posting content, but even you can agree that confirming that your own posts are good things is a waste of space. Of course you think your posts are good, they are your posts.

"this player is making good posts with content" is not a good scum case, that was my point. That's your case and that seems to be PMush's case, and it's nonsense, so I was addressing it.

There's absolutely no way you could reasonably believe this is a good way to go about the game, especially when the people not posting content are so much worse.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


for reference to anyone not paying attention, this is pmush's case, to which AYC has said "I agree."

PMush Perfect posted:

I hate to use the big fake-impressive words but [Ecco and AA] strike me as a little performative? Like they want to be seen saying the words they're saying, rather than for their meaning.

this case is nonsense, it lacks sense. The implication is that PMush doesn't think what I'm posting is bad or wrong (in fact the implication is that they are good and right!), but that I am only posting them to appear like I'm posting good and right things, not because I really mean it.

It's patently ridiculous. It's the second laziest case in the world, and does nothing but advance the scum win condition.

I bring it up because if AYC votes me for this (terrible) case I'll be at -1, which is even more absurd.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I'm gonna lock myself in. if anyone can answer this question I'll reconsider.

EccoRaven posted:

does anyone have any reason to think mushroom is town rn


PMush's play so far this game:
- Shitposts (worthless)
- Talking about the incredibles (worthless)
- Making a nonsense case
- Says AYC is a good player solely because AYC agreed with the (nonsense) case
- Accuses AA of being "super defensive" (he wasn't) and refuses to elaborate.
- Half-defends an absent BK (this is a scum maneuver)


Their posting just says "I am lazy scum and I'm gonna poo poo my way through this game instead of actually put in any effort." And as an aside, if you want to talk about being "performative," this post is actually a good example of "says things just to look helpful," because the underlying content is hollow.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


areyoucontagious posted:

You'll notice I'm not voting you. In fact I'm leaving strongly towards AA or BK right now. I'd lynch BK over you. You're just acting as the authority in this thread and I have problems with authority. :)

sounds like a personal problem then.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


do you actually have any substantive reason to think I'm scum, or is it entirely about how I "appear" to be posting.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


PMush Perfect posted:

This post is Weird. The vote at the end would feel pretty natural as a joke-vote, but as far as I can tell, you're being entirely serious. Not to mention it was right after BK put an actual joke-vote down on him.

flipless games require a more rigorous way to look at the game, I wanted to address that going in.

additionally, you may recall that it was a jokevote and I said as such later on. In fact it was you flipping my words around (senselessly) that brought you to voting for me in the first place!

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


PMush Perfect posted:

So, you put someone at -2 because... reasons? Because you wanted to pressure quid, but it was also a joke?

(you put me at -2 while shitposting)

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


sure.

PMush I know I'm biased but I hope you at least see that your first attempt at a substantive case this game is not very good. "Puts quidnose at -2!" is a terrible reason to vote someone, "seems serious but then it looks like a joke AND THEN ECCO SAYS IT'S A JOKE???" is not a smoking gun (it's not even a gun), and shitposting like you did all yesterday doesn't exactly make it look like you're going into this with a sincere heart.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Quidthulhu posted:

I think she means more "ecco is posting in a manner that seems like she's putting in a ton of effort but is in fact saying nothing?" Where do you get "I agree with Ecco's points but know she is FAKING THEM" from her statement?

because if pmush actually had something substantive to say about my posting itself she would have said so. the case was, remember, "ecco just wants to be seen saying the words they're saying rather than for their meaning." (that's literally the entire case.) The implication isn't "ecco said bad things," since if I did that would be a much better case. The implication is in fact "what ecco is saying is good, but they're only saying it to look like they're being helpful."

It's you who's inferring more from the case, not me.

Quidthulhu posted:

There's far more bad ecco content than this, why start here?
tough talk that I doubt you can support.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Quidthulhu posted:

What we have to worry about is voting TOMORROW, nobody put down a stupid early vote cause that could cost the game.

no it couldn't. This literally will not happen, ever, short of the scum deciding "I like to draw attention to myself and scumclaiming by my words instead of my actions."

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


oh by tomorrow you mean the next game day.

okay that's fair but it also doesn't need to be said.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


##unvote ##vote quid leaning more this way now.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


honestly? I don't like this post:

Quidthulhu posted:

What we have to worry about is voting TOMORROW, nobody put down a stupid early vote cause that could cost the game.

it was apropos of nothing, it didn't need to be said, and just feels like it's saying "look, I'm being helpful!" without actually being helpful.


(pmush lesson: this is how you do a "performative" argument.)

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Quidthulhu posted:

It was in relation to the posts about putting people at -2, which you directly contributed to with a comment not 5 posts above mine :confused:

it didn't need to be said. obviously on day 2 there's a chance it'll be exlo. we're not talking about day 2, we're talking about day 1.

it just didn't need to be said, which is why it rings scummy to me, because it looks like you did it just to appear helpful.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


hmmmm

I don't agree but I see where you're coming from.

you made a bold statement earlier quidnose, care to back it up?

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I've reached my helpful quota for the day, I have to ask you to find it yourself. Hint: I pointed it out for you on this page.

I'm gone for most of the afternoon but I should be around for the deadline if it's tonight, idk, helpful quota.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Quidthulhu posted:

See and the reason I think you're scum on a gut level is because of how unhelpful and dismissive you are being. You come in guns blazing "I'm gonna make sure we all follow the rules & make this mafia game good!" and then when people start talking about ways to not gently caress this game up you go "whoa whoa whoa slow your roll mister, why you trying to boss people, that's FAKE" which directly contradicts what you did yourself, initially.

i think you're standing behind a lot of words without saying very much. if you really want me to go ahead and break down your posts on a point by point level to explain that i guess i can, but your response will probably just be "nah you're misreading me there" so why bother?

I'm going to try to make this a good game of mafia by posting my thoughts and making cases and prodding people to do the same.

"Remember, tomorrow could be exlo!" is not being helpful. That's the difference! There isn't any contradiction here.

You're manufacturing a problem, like you manufactured a problem earlier with my interpretation of pmush's posts.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


further thoughts before I go:

Quidthulhu posted:

i think you're standing behind a lot of words without saying very much. if you really want me to go ahead and break down your posts on a point by point level to explain that i guess i can, but your response will probably just be "nah you're misreading me there" so why bother?

1) if you want someone using a lot of words without saying very much, look at pera.

2) "I could make a case but you'd just dismiss it so why bother?" loses town the game. If you think I'm scum make the case so others can see and respond to it. Sure, I'm likely not going to think it's very good, but who cares what I think, I don't and I'm me.

3) that you are reluctant to back up your words is Scummy. It suggests you realize your content is fake and you instead look for an excuse not to support it.


toodles

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


areyoucontagious posted:

Your "quality" binge for the first three pages followed by "I said my part I'm done"? And now pushing with a dismissive aloof tone?

I was AFK and still am. I'm not posturing that I'm aloof, I'm saying "I will not be around and I don't have the time to do your work for you."

you're going to vote me because you don't like my tone which is pretty ridiculous that you think my tone is the worst thing in this thread.

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