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Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

MY OPINIONS ARE AS USEFUL AS NIPPLE HORNS ON A PRIMARCH


Tiggum posted:

The fact that it changes nothing would be why it's a problem; it's a waste of time if nothing else. If it serves some purpose - like if someone is deliberately killing everyone that this person interacts with and that's going to lead to something later - that's fine. But if it's just "we're done with this character, may as well kill them" then why bother?

Okay that is a cool hypothetical but

Zaphod42 posted:

Its the Saint of Killers

So I think we're good?

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Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003



zeal posted:

homoerotic drug binges?

Well yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzSVmsrJEzk

Supreme Allah
Oct 6, 2004

I choose to expose myself

Nap Ghost

counterfeitsaint posted:

I'm enjoying the hell out of the show, but I don't get the reverence for the comic. I've never read it, but every time someone talks about the differences or just the comic in general, it sounds incredibly dumb.

The majority of it was,

However Garth Ennis has a bizzare way to make you care about non-redeemable savages

The entire comic thingy, had plenty of fat could be carved off

Yet a Charm that will stand on its own

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Ennis is a really weird writer. He has a serious fixation on surprise sex. "The Boys," which makes Preacher look tame in comparison, is replete with some seriously twisted poo poo. He also *loathes* superheroes, going so far as to have The Punisher shoot Wolverine's dick and face off and run him over with a steamroller.

His crown jewels (in my opinion) are his Battlefields/War Stories GNs, and single-handedly making The Punisher relevant again with his Marvel Knights and Punisher: MAX arcs. Preacher was just something that came along after resident "comic bad boy" Frank Miller outed himself as a loving lunatic and its ~edginess~ caught everyone off-guard. It probably also doesn't hurt that since most comic stores didn't give a flat out gently caress about selling 'mature audiences' comics to kids unless they were flat out marked "XXX" somewhere on the cover, that it was probably the first place some really young and impressionable boys saw consistent T&A in a medium that didn't involve tying up the phone line or having to hide Penthouses like loving Batman around the house.

...which would kind of explain why Kevin Smith wrote the foreword for the collected Preacher compilation series. >.>

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at Jul 17, 2017 around 06:30

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Zaphod42 posted:

So I think we're good?
Not having read the comics; not really? You keep saying "Saint of Killers" like its supposed to mean something, but it doesn't. Not at the point the show's at. He seems to just be killing pretty much at random. I can see that they're building him up to be a major antagonist since he's immune to Jesse's power and he can kill angels and all that, but I don't understand why he does anything.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010



Ennis' fixation on Ireland, World War II and Vietnam is a lot more powerful than his fixation on surprise sex, if you ask me.

Preacher the comic just isn't very good when all is said and done. Like even if you go all-in on Ennis' weirdness it's full of aimless plotlines, inconsistent characterization and extremely promising moments that never go anywhere.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

MY OPINIONS ARE AS USEFUL AS NIPPLE HORNS ON A PRIMARCH


Tiggum posted:

Not having read the comics; not really? You keep saying "Saint of Killers" like its supposed to mean something, but it doesn't. Not at the point the show's at. He seems to just be killing pretty much at random. I can see that they're building him up to be a major antagonist since he's immune to Jesse's power and he can kill angels and all that, but I don't understand why he does anything.

Well, suffice it to say the comics have a good reason and while the show may deviate, it will probably give a similar or even the same reason in time.

Like much of Preacher, the story is in media res and its meant to be a weirdo mystery that you figure out as you go along. If you're a tv watcher who hasn't read the comics I figure you would be into that.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



BIG HEADLINE posted:

Ennis is a really weird writer. He has a serious fixation on surprise sex. "The Boys," which makes Preacher look tame in comparison, is replete with some seriously twisted poo poo. He also *loathes* superheroes, going so far as to have The Punisher shoot Wolverine's dick and face off and run him over with a steamroller.

Yeah, even just within Preacher itself that fixation really stands out. Basically every time a new antagonist is introduced you can already tell you're in for a sequence that tells you exactly how hosed up their sex life is, in completely unnecessary detail. Pretty sure that happens with just about every single bad guy in Ennis' works.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Gordong Dongbay posted:

This is the second best rendition of hell currently on TV.

First being Your Pretty Face is Going to Hell on Adult Swim.

No first comes The Good Place.

Zoben
Oct 3, 2001


BIG HEADLINE posted:

Ennis is a really weird writer. He has a serious fixation on surprise sex. "The Boys," which makes Preacher look tame in comparison, is replete with some seriously twisted poo poo. He also *loathes* superheroes, going so far as to have The Punisher shoot Wolverine's dick and face off and run him over with a steamroller.

His crown jewels (in my opinion) are his Battlefields/War Stories GNs, and single-handedly making The Punisher relevant again with his Marvel Knights and Punisher: MAX arcs. Preacher was just something that came along after resident "comic bad boy" Frank Miller outed himself as a loving lunatic and its ~edginess~ caught everyone off-guard. It probably also doesn't hurt that since most comic stores didn't give a flat out gently caress about selling 'mature audiences' comics to kids unless they were flat out marked "XXX" somewhere on the cover, that it was probably the first place some really young and impressionable boys saw consistent T&A in a medium that didn't involve tying up the phone line or having to hide Penthouses like loving Batman around the house.

...which would kind of explain why Kevin Smith wrote the foreword for the collected Preacher compilation series. >.>

I dug Preacher a lot but agree with most everyone here that it's very 90's and faux-edgy and a lot of it wouldn't translate. I WAS bothered that the word didn't work on the SoK though. Didn't make sense. Also, while I love The Pogues and any references to them (like in The Wire for the funerals and when McNulty is driving drunk), the sappy love story issue which was based on "Fairytale of New York" is possibly the most cringe-worthy comic ever.

The Punisher MAX series was awesome, though.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



Rather liking this take on the early Tulip & Jesse time

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



Haha, they're gonna use Fabry covers as props in next week's episode

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002



Grimey Drawer

Zoben posted:

I dug Preacher a lot but agree with most everyone here that it's very 90's and faux-edgy and a lot of it wouldn't translate. I WAS bothered that the word didn't work on the SoK though. Didn't make sense. Also, while I love The Pogues and any references to them (like in The Wire for the funerals and when McNulty is driving drunk), the sappy love story issue which was based on "Fairytale of New York" is possibly the most cringe-worthy comic ever.

The Punisher MAX series was awesome, though.

I was surprised at how good Punisher MAX was. I've always stayed away from those comics because of the "Huurrr killing thugs" element and...well, it's still a problem. But the storylines were good and art was great.

I'm still trying to get through the Preacher comics. Like you said, it's painfully 1990's.

Vlonald Prump
Aug 28, 2011

Here in America, you grab them by pussy. In old country, pussy grab you!!

Buglord

Ennis has interesting ideas that he kind of spoils by getting his ~ E X T R E M E ~ E D G I N E S S ~ all over them

I read the comic and it's pretty good for the first 4 - ish? volumes then hits this meandering place I have no memories of whatsoever except the Peak Edgy moment with the meat baron loving the pile of meat shaped like a woman.

He also suffers a problem a lot of Brit writers seem to have in laying it on way too thick when writing about the Southern US. Like if Ennis had ever actually been to a small town in Texas before writing the comic I'd eat my hat

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

Now I'm radioactive!

That can't be good!


Zoben posted:

The Punisher MAX series was awesome, though.

I think the most telling thing about Ennis's contribution to it is I was reading the series and hit the issue he left, and went "Holy gently caress that was lovely and lame and a waste of a the concept. Like, that loving blew." Then I saw it wasn't written by Ennis.

The end of the Max run was horse poo poo. It never got anything but loving terrible after he left. The final issue was an embarrassment.

Krispy Kareem posted:

I was surprised at how good Punisher MAX was. I've always stayed away from those comics because of the "Huurrr killing thugs" element and...well, it's still a problem. But the storylines were good and art was great.

I'm still trying to get through the Preacher comics. Like you said, it's painfully 1990's.

The best Punisher stories put you primarily in the POV of the bad guys, where it becomes almost like an inverse Friday the 13th, if Jason only hunted real loving bad people and used military hardware.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jul 18, 2017 around 13:24

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



So did like nobody else watch last night's episode or what?

This Jesse's got a loving dark streak a mile wide, jesus man.

zeal
Sep 11, 2008

Z E A L!





thinking back, does anybody but Jesse know that the Saint is tracking them through each use of the Voice? Tulip doesn't I don't think, and I can only imagine the clusterfuck when she finds out Jesse let her take her stepdaughter back to a house where he'd shouted all of Victor's goons into statues earlier that day

Hidingo Kojimba
Mar 29, 2010



zeal posted:

thinking back, does anybody but Jesse know that the Saint is tracking them through each use of the Voice? Tulip doesn't I don't think, and I can only imagine the clusterfuck when she finds out Jesse let her take her stepdaughter back to a house where he'd shouted all of Victor's goons into statues earlier that day

In fairness, as far as any of them knows, Fiore called the Saint off and he doesn't have to worry about that any more.

Data Graham posted:

So did like nobody else watch last night's episode or what?

This Jesse's got a loving dark streak a mile wide, jesus man.

And Cassidy is indeed a manipulative bastard, no idea how close they're gonna hew to what happens in the books but man did they leave open the possibility with how he acted this episode.

Beer_Suitcase
May 3, 2005

Verily, the whip is ghost riding.

Data Graham posted:

So did like nobody else watch last night's episode or what?

This Jesse's got a loving dark streak a mile wide, jesus man.

I really enjoyed the montage of loving/beer/test/ repeat. Anyone know that song that was playing.

It's been years since I read the comics but did they even talk about "what happened in Dallas" and why Jessie went to Anvil in the first place?

Also, the Saint of Killers would kill a child?! He's a bad man.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Beer_Suitcase posted:

Also, the Saint of Killers would kill a child?! He's a bad man.
The fact that we first saw him in hell was probably a hint.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



Beer_Suitcase posted:

I really enjoyed the montage of loving/beer/test/ repeat. Anyone know that song that was playing.

It's been years since I read the comics but did they even talk about "what happened in Dallas" and why Jessie went to Anvil in the first place?

Also, the Saint of Killers would kill a child?! He's a bad man.

That whole backstory has been rewritten it seems. Victor wasn't in the comics, Tulip wasn't married, etc. She was a lovely contract killer and screwed up a hit which is how she ended up running into Cassidy (this was during a long Jesse-less hiatus in her life).

counterfeitsaint
Feb 26, 2010

I'm a girl, and you're
gnomes, and it's like
what? Yikes.

This is starting to get repetitive. Go to new place, has adventures with new people, SoK comes in and kills everyone, move on.

Beer_Suitcase
May 3, 2005

Verily, the whip is ghost riding.

counterfeitsaint posted:

This is starting to get repetitive. Go to new place, has adventures with new people, SoK comes in and kills everyone, move on.

I hoping we get to see Cassidy yell at the foppish Anne Rice Vampire guy this season. Would be a nice B story, unless it was all in flashback. I don't remember.

It's nice not remembering the comic chapter and verse. I think I recall a character or story beat and then I get something else instead. Keeps me interested.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010



Jesse's getting (or continuing) to be a tough protagonist to root for, but it's nice to have some aspects stay true to the comics.

Zoben
Oct 3, 2001


Beer_Suitcase posted:

I really enjoyed the montage of loving/beer/test/ repeat. Anyone know that song that was playing.

It's been years since I read the comics but did they even talk about "what happened in Dallas" and why Jessie went to Anvil in the first place?

Also, the Saint of Killers would kill a child?! He's a bad man.

In the comics Jesse and Tulip were just car thieves. Seems that they were killers for hire on the show, which is a bit more dark. Also yeah, in the SoK comic back story, when he went back to Ratwater he killed everyone including the women and children.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



Zoben posted:

In the comics Jesse and Tulip were just car thieves. Seems that they were killers for hire on the show, which is a bit more dark. Also yeah, in the SoK comic back story, when he went back to Ratwater he killed everyone including the women and children.

Which was the act in which "he damned himself".

Hidingo Kojimba
Mar 29, 2010



Zoben posted:

In the comics Jesse and Tulip were just car thieves. Seems that they were killers for hire on the show, which is a bit more dark. Also yeah, in the SoK comic back story, when he went back to Ratwater he killed everyone including the women and children.

They weren't killers. When their fixer offered them a contract on her husband they were quite clear they didn't do that. The guy Jesse killed wasn't planned, that was when Carlos ran out on them. Of course they were con artists/thieves who killed a guy when things went south though.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010



He damned himself when he shot an innocent woman that the gang he was going after took as a human shield. Then they killed him, he went to hell, came back, and then killed everyone in Ratwater. Gotta say, that was one of the better arcs in the comic.

Lord Sexatron
Aug 1, 2003


efb nevermind

zeal
Sep 11, 2008

Z E A L!





My Lovely Horse posted:

Jesse's getting (or continuing) to be a tough protagonist to root for, but it's nice to have some aspects stay true to the comics.

i'm enjoying that he fundamentally still hasn't' learned his lesson where Genesis is concerned. he's not using it quite as trivially as he did in s1, but he's still throwing around a terrible power with barely any concern for the consequences.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

Now I'm radioactive!

That can't be good!


Beer_Suitcase posted:

I hoping we get to see Cassidy yell at the foppish Anne Rice Vampire guy this season. Would be a nice B story, unless it was all in flashback. I don't remember.

I think my only problem with Cassidy is how casually he's eaten some people's pets on occasion. A pretty dick move (not referring to the point he was burnt up and insane and eating anything that came into the room, he was pretty much feral at that point). But given just about everyone on this show is really loving flawed, he's practically the most moral person on the whole show which is what makes him interesting.

counterfeitsaint posted:

This is starting to get repetitive. Go to new place, has adventures with new people, SoK comes in and kills everyone, move on.

I think this complaint is silly. They think they took care of the SoK and they haven't, he's basically the Cowboy Terminator with far more of a murder streak. It's very loving obvious they will have to find some way to deal with him, possibly very soon, because they can't keep this status quo up in universe, not just as out.

It's all about establishing the villain, more than anything. If he spared people on and off he wouldn't be this unstoppable force of destruction.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jul 18, 2017 around 23:35

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

MY OPINIONS ARE AS USEFUL AS NIPPLE HORNS ON A PRIMARCH


Man this show just really wants me to hate Tulip just non stop killjoy. I was already mad at her from how she kept Jesse in the dark, then she starts accusing Cassidy out of nowhere, then drops it... girl get your poo poo together.

Cool to see them introduce the John Wayne angle, and the flashback to Dallas and all.

"Is that man dead?"

"ohhh shite.... oh no, that's just Dennis"

counterfeitsaint posted:

This is starting to get repetitive. Go to new place, has adventures with new people, SoK comes in and kills everyone, move on.

The story is a roadtrip so if you don't like that... I dunno what to tell ya. Its not like the same things happen at each place? Even if it ends the same the people at each are memorable.

Zoben posted:

In the comics Jesse and Tulip were just car thieves. Seems that they were killers for hire on the show, which is a bit more dark. Also yeah, in the SoK comic back story, when he went back to Ratwater he killed everyone including the women and children.

They're also supposed to be 'some of the best' which as assassins seems a bit undeserved to me. I mean, Jesse does seem to basically have superpowers for fighting before he got The Word, but if they were pro assassins you'd think their lives would have to be different somehow.

Maybe they were just the best of the local yahoos. Having them as thieves makes way more sense to me, but no biggie.

Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at Jul 18, 2017 around 23:36

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

Now I'm radioactive!

That can't be good!


Zaphod42 posted:

"Is that man dead?"

"ohhh shite.... oh no, that's just Dennis"

Dennis will survive the SoK only because he's mistaken as already being dead!

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

Now I'm radioactive!

That can't be good!


Zaphod42 posted:

They're also supposed to be 'some of the best' which as assassins seems a bit undeserved to me. I mean, Jesse does seem to basically have superpowers for fighting before he got The Word, but if they were pro assassins you'd think their lives would have to be different somehow.

Maybe they were just the best of the local yahoos. Having them as thieves makes way more sense to me, but no biggie.

They said they aren't hit people. They're thieves. They're a heist crew, nothing more.

I don't know where people are getting that they're assassins from.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

MY OPINIONS ARE AS USEFUL AS NIPPLE HORNS ON A PRIMARCH


Blazing Ownager posted:

They said they aren't hit people. They're thieves. They're a heist crew, nothing more.

I don't know where people are getting that they're assassins from.

Hmmm, rewatching the scene I guess you're right.

The lady tries to hire them to do an arson and then to murder her husband. Tulip does say "we don't do that" but then Jesse says "we're not doing any of that anymore"

Which at first sounds like he's saying they've done that before, but in second viewing does sound like he's talking about all the job offers together.

Jesse does seem awfully comfortable killing dudes though. But that was the same in the comic.

Blazing Ownager posted:

Dennis will survive the SoK only because he's mistaken as already being dead!

lmao

savinhill
Mar 28, 2010


Where are people getting the idea that Jesse seems awfully comfortable killing dudes? I think the show's made it pretty obvious that Jesse has major issues and PTSD as the result of committing his first murder on the heist.

mallratcal
Sep 10, 2003

Goodnight Canada!


He wasn't even killing Odin's men. Just shooting their dicks off.

zeal
Sep 11, 2008

Z E A L!





the only guy Jesse killed storming Victor's place was the only one who left him no other option

and i don't think anybody's shedding tears over the pro torturer with Uptown Girl on his work playlist

ThNextGreenLantern
Feb 13, 2012


Zaphod42 posted:

Man this show just really wants me to hate Tulip just non stop killjoy. I was already mad at her from how she kept Jesse in the dark, then she starts accusing Cassidy out of nowhere, then drops it... girl get your poo poo together.

AMC shows are great at making their female leads hate magnets.

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zeal
Sep 11, 2008

Z E A L!





Zaphod42 posted:

Man this show just really wants me to hate Tulip just non stop killjoy. I was already mad at her from how she kept Jesse in the dark, then she starts accusing Cassidy out of nowhere, then drops it... girl get your poo poo together.

what in her accusations is inaccurate tho

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