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Tabletops posted:how do i invest other peoples capital into my cryptomining operations Advertise that you are selling mining time at a premier mining facility, then just give them cryptocurrency that you buy on an exchange with 90% of the revenue and pocket the rest. Much simpler than mining
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Jun 24, 2017 05:59
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Gobbeldygook posted:Yes. That is exactly what is happening. I feel bad for people who actually buy video cards just for mining. Their RROI is basically hosed without some kind of "oh Eth suddenly increased in value by 1000%" event. This same thing happened in Bitcoin but with ASICs; bitlords were buying ASIC mining hardware with no actual hope of ever, ever recouping their hardware costs because a bunch of guys in China started building huge warehouses full of ASICs
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Jun 24, 2017 08:41
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craig588 posted:The 290s turned out fine. Hardware is usually made to be used. I know people who bought 200 dollar 290s in 2014 when people were panic selling them that were still using those cards very recently, until they sold them for more than they paid and updated to a 1070 basically for free. I use GPUs for serious (physics) computation work with CUDA for a living and I run into academics all the time who think they can get by just slapping 4x 1080s (or 980s or whatever) into a server and running them at full-tilt. In my experience they lose about 50% of those cards after a year. Consumer-grade video cards are actually not designed to be used 24/7; their failure rates go way up when you do that, and those failure rates increase further when you pack several them into a poorly-ventilated space (such as a homebrew "computation" box or a mining rig). There are computational-grade graphics cards that are actually designed to survive in a high-load setting, but they cost a lot more We're talking about statistical likelihood of failure here, so obviously you'll still stand a decent change of finding a 1080 or 1070 card that will work fine for years as a normal gaming GPU despite being abused like that. But if you're normally skittish about buying refurb hardware, like most people are, then buying a GPU used for mining is not for you; think of it as buying refurb with a far higher chance of failure and no warranty. It's a gamble that you stand a decent chance of winning but holy poo poo don't pretend like there's no chance of failure QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 00:44
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1gnoirents posted:I'm sorry dude, I'm no "mining card apologist" but a 50% failure rate after one year of use means you have major problems elsewhere. That is a ridiculous failure rate, "consumer" version or not. FYI, its very well documented over almost two decades now how the build quality of AIBs often exceeds any Tesla version of the same chipset. I spelled out exactly what the problems were in that case: 24/7 use with insufficient cooling. Note that these are likely the conditions subjected to a video card that was used for at-home mining
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Jun 25, 2017 04:02
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shrike82 posted:Yeah I'm going to have to see the receipts on a 50% annual failure rate. We're talking about the risks of buying used mining hardware, pointing out that undercooled and overused cards have shorter lives seems pretty important to me when weighing the pros/cons of this route. You're getting a cheaper video card with some increased risk of early failure
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Jun 25, 2017 04:09
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Fauxtool posted:dual fan GPUs being used to mine these days are not the same TDP as the blower 290s of the last mining bubble. Nobody is talking about buying the worn out AMD cards from back then. These cards are in okay shape and probably only 9 months old at worst I have no experience with worn out AMD cards from years ago, I have experience with the GTX 980s that were being used recently and the 1080s that are being used now. I'm telling you that I've had colleagues experience real problems when they've undercooled and overworked these cards. Maybe the current/previous AMD varieties are totally fine (again, I don't use and know no one who uses AMD cards), but we have people talking about buying used 1080TIs and acting like there's no risk at all which is lol
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Jun 25, 2017 04:28
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Fauxtool posted:as the people using the 1080tis for mining are here, im 100% confident we will have a reasonable idea of their reliability after mining. If they start going bad we will know not to buy them used. some are here, and it would be unwise to assume that a random 1080ti you buy on craiglist was well-cared for. Instead you should consider that it might have been used like this:  amateur homerigging is the norm, especially if you're buying video cards from randos in the middle of a panic-sell; do not assume it is the exception. All that I am advising is caution; don't cream your jeans too quick when used cards start showing up everywhere, especially not if your finances can't afford to basically lose that hardware without recourse
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Jun 25, 2017 05:23
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Twerk from Home posted:So to be clear, something like using 8 1080 Tis as compute cards is an idiot trap, and Teslas are the only real answer? Not necessarily; that setup is being sold as a server that you put in a data center, on a rack mount, where presumably it will be adequately cooled. Putting that thing under your desk is a recipe for disaster, however Of these two scenarios, the latter is what cryptomining usually entails
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Jun 25, 2017 09:14
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Fauxtool posted:im running mine in a low noise, not optimized for airflow case. If it doesnt burn out here it wont in the open air milk crate in the picture. Dont buy if it doesnt have a warranty, its very simple. Warranties don't transfer. That's the crux of the problem; if you buy a mining card used then you do not have a warranty, and if the card dies after you receive it then you're SOL.
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Jun 25, 2017 09:17
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Fauxtool posted:warranties do transfer when you buy a card with a transferable warranty like those by EVGA. MSI cards have them and same with if you order directly from nvidia. You dont actually need to transfer anything as the warranty is attached to the serial not the buyer . Edit* ASUS and Gigabyte warranties also follow the serial. None of them require registration when first purchased except EVGA as far as i can tell. NVidia warranties: quote:LIMITATIONS OF WARRANTY I wasn't aware that EVGA did transferrable warranties, that's neat
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Jun 25, 2017 21:30
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$1000000000/ETH in 2017 is very likely, buy buy buy!
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Jun 27, 2017 08:01
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BurritoJustice posted:It's using 2.2GB of system RAM for each of my 980s mining currently. I don't think that it should be using hardly any of your system RAM. Is it also having you CPU mine? Twerk from Home posted:What will these things be useful for in 2 months? Discount entry-level deep learning GPUs? PhysX GPUs? What's a no-output no-warranty 1060 6GB worth? $60? GPUs for scientific computation have become a big business, but most of the scientific community uses Tesla and sometimes TITAN cards instead of 10XX consumer-grade graphics cards. For poo poo like deep learning you usually don't need double precision, so 10XX cards should be sufficient in theory if you wanted to setup a scientific computation box. But as has been discussed before, these cards aren't designed to live in dense clusters, which is probably why the warranty is so short. So I guess if you don't have enough funds to do work on a supercomputer but want to tool with the hardware, you could buy a couple of these and at least be able to tool around with GPU-relevant applications, like image processing or machine learning. These wouldn't be useful for HPC centers; NVLink offers too much value to try and skimp by buying these things, and there's no way that you could get an affordable HPC service contract supporting consumer-grade GPUs with only 6-month warranties Paul MaudDib posted:Definitely, assuming you don't need any of the Tesla-specific features like NVLink or RDMA-over-Infiniband then it's basically just a consumer Tesla card. I've done some ML (not my primary source of work), they often are, and you can do ML reasonably well without NVLink, just over PCIe. NVLink gives you a huge performance boost and makes your code easier to develop, but sure, you can still do some ML stuff without it. I think these would be fine if someone wanted to set up a github for personal projects that use GPUs but didn't already own a GPU, for instance
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Jun 28, 2017 09:06
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bobfather posted:Is there a preferred, objective site that documents major cryptocurrency scams? A friend is touching the poop, has done no research about the caveats and pitfalls of all cryptocurrency, and is surrounded by people that are all-in to cryptocurrency trading themselves, so there's a poo poo ton of group think going on. I think most people have just been watching /r/buttcoin and the yospos thread for the stream of comedy gold rather than actually collecting and archiving any of this poo poo like on a wiki or something. Like just going to /r/buttcoin right now here are some of the headlines
None of this is an objective analysis of scams in cryptocurrency or whatever, but it's a reasonable way of glimpsing what's going on. The bigger scams and thefts you can probably find headlines on
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Jun 30, 2017 07:54
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Craptacular! posted:If you ask other people on SA, you should buy one for pennies off the dollar from them at that point and consider them the poor sucker. I don't know what to think as a guy with money and a wish for an affordable GPU in the future. I think there's a good chance you'd be okay but if you wouldn't normally buy used components because of the risk then this is a whole lot riskier than that
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Jun 30, 2017 22:02
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1gnoirents posted:Alright guys I'm posting this because im pretty god drat proud, but feel free to laugh. I violated the poo poo out of rule #1 on day 0 so I figured well, go all in! This is a good thing, CPU mining has a negative RROI across the board
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Jul 1, 2017 04:24
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1gnoirents posted:Ill keep lookimg into it but it costs me 30 watts max, much less so with this new crap build which only has a 35 watt TDP in total. At those rates that 30 cents a day is costing me 5 cents in power. The issue im seeing is that the cpu is working to some moderate degree anyway. Certainly a standalone idle cpu to cpu mining max on say a 125 watt cpu would be dumb but as of now its firmly worth doing in terms of roi in my case Get a Killawatt and measure the power draw at idle vs load. TDP stands for thermal design power and is an estimate of the maximum waste heat you can expect to have to deal with when running normal CPU-bound applications. This is less than the amount of power that your system is pulling from the wall when you CPU mine.
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Jul 1, 2017 11:00
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yup i sure am looking forward to getting some of these used GPUs  
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Jul 1, 2017 22:11
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Fauxtool posted:dont buy blowers, dont buy without warranty, and only buy current gen cards. No 290s, no rx480s. Risk mitigated. yeah it's not like someone with a bunch of GTX 1070s would ever fail to take good care of them
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Jul 2, 2017 11:26
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Risky Bisquick posted:970s are cheap and will pay themselves off in two months, if the difficulty increases or values crash you can dump them for the same price you paid for them. yes i'm sure if those things happen no one else will be dumping graphics cards at the same time
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Jul 4, 2017 23:14
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Junior Jr. posted:Should I buy an RX 580 now or wait till the Vega cards (not the Frontier one) come out? Maybe they'll have better rates than a 1060 6GB. you should go to your local best buy and clean out the shelves of RX 580s post pictures once you've gotten them set up
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Jul 5, 2017 00:02
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:Wait!! That's the beauty of it, you CANT prove it's child porn! Are you going to give up 50 cents in mining value every day? Buy buy buy! To the mooooooooon! It wouldn't surprise me if the contents weren't actually stored with any encryption and were easily provably child porn
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Jul 5, 2017 00:23
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:Holy poo poo, really? That's too low even for me. What are you mining on? There's no way the components wearing out justifies that low profit. Proof of Stake wastes even more electricity than Proof of Work, there is no proposed proof of stake system that doesn't just turn into a roundabout proof of work system
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Jul 5, 2017 03:34
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:Jesus dude, that's like 50 pages of a white paper and I'm but a simple crypto miner Well yeah it's written by a butter so of course it over-promises on the potential of cryptocurrency but the grander point is that proof of stake is secretly no less wasteful than proof of work, which is true Anyone who tells you that blockchains in the future are going to be more efficient because they'll use proof of stake is either lying to you or doesn't know any better
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Jul 5, 2017 03:44
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Harik posted:Wait, POS is just POW except you have to already have buttcoinz to participate? And here I thought it was just premining magnates taking income for having cryptobutts they hadn't spent yet. That's the objective of POS, but it also results in several attack vectors where you can use computational power to do things like bias the probability of being rewarded the next block in your favor or generating alternative blockchains in a way that leaves wallet software unable to determine which one is the "real" one (which has a number of uses, such as rewarding yourself all of the past mining rewards, or reversing future transactions). At this point POS is just an easier to exploit POW algorithm
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Jul 5, 2017 06:59
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:I just finished reading it, and it's a pretty solid description of how things work. No matter what you do, how you do it, or what rules are in place, if someone can be awarded $50 worth of goodies, a large enough group of people will eventually spend $49.999 in effort and goods in order to be the one to get that $50. It doesn't really touch the poop much, and just sorta does the academic "we're going to assume, for the sake of argument that X is true, Y is correct and Z is a thing we should care about". It goes beyond that as well, for instance with "stake grinding". If your stake gets to generate the next block, then you can use computational power to generate N slightly varied blocks (for instance, you could just gently caress with the header data or you could vary how the block reward is distributed to various wallets), checking each block to see whether it would cause you to be rewarded the next block as well. More computational power means increasing the probability that you're signing consecutive blocks (and collecting those additional mining rewards). This doesn't require increasing your stake at all, it just requires waiting until you win a block and then trying to adjust it (with brute force) so that you win the next block too e: Technically you can't do it unless you have some stake, since you need to gain a block legitimately, but once you do get that block then your computational power determines how many additional consecutive blocks you'll be able to secure QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 12:20
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Then you are now investing your original stake, plus the brute force time, effort and cost, and risking your stake by breaking the rules. You still are willing to bet that those costs are less than the reward youd get, which was the entire point of the econ argument. It doesnt know or care about how POW or POS work, all it knows is that people will spend cash, electricity, gold, buttcoins, and effort cheating the system equal to the expected reward. Stake grinding isn't breaking the rules; at the end of the day you're still publishing a valid block, you're just varying that block within the range of validity attempting to ensure you'll get the subsequent block as well. The "brute force time, effort and cost" can be summarized as "Proof of Work". No stake is risked by doing this, just money spent on computational resources (which is no different than Proof of Work mining) This isn't in the spirit of Proof of Stake, but for years it's been pretty widely accepted that pure Proof of Stake is just slightly different Proof of Work
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Jul 5, 2017 13:06
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divabot posted:for years? that sounds like a cite I need ... I just ran that test para past my fb and one reader balked at the idea of <$50 effort however you slice it to get $50 coins, there's a limit to how Econ 101 I'm gonna go here ... Here's a recent paper with a section describing stake grinding (although not by name) and pointing out that there exists no blockchain that has achieved distributed consensus with pure Proof of Stake. PeerCoin started out using checkpoints (aka a centralized authority) to prevent stake-grinding with the intention of later going pure Proof of Stake, but when they tried to do that everyone immediately started stake-grinding. IIRC people were talking about stake grinding before Peercoin was released, which was 2012. https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf Proof of Stake also enables an attack vector where you buy a bunch of old private keys on the cheap (old as in "I already spent the coins at these addresses so the keys are worthless to me now, that'll be one song please"). With these keys you can write a new blockchain from that point, assigning the rewards as they would have been assigned normally but this time with you holding those keys, essentially doing a quick history rewriting. Now there are two blockchains, one where those coins were spent by the original owner, the other where they are held by you (plus you have a bunch of additional coins from your stake earning you blocks). To everyone else these blockchains are indistinguishable and no one knows which one to publish blocks or send transactions to. This gets solved by creating a centralized authority who says "at block X the chain looked like this" but now you've violated the decentralized spirit of cryptocurrency and not only made a bunch of libertarians very angry (THE FED) but also eliminated the purpose of your blockchain (wait, if we're going to trust a centralized authority anyway why not just have them verify transactions directly?)
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Jul 5, 2017 21:44
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:More or less, there is some masters level econ fuckery you can do to adjust the normal MR=MC for human factors like sunk costs fallacy, non-ideal strategies, and limited information economic exchanges, but the math gets annoying and actually calculating it requires econometrics, the worst flavor of statistics, so I'll pas on that. To my knowledge, all of the implemented POS that aren't insignificantly small use a centralized authority for consensus validation, for instance with PeerCoin only the developers can actually determine whether blocks are valid. These schemes aren't considered "true" POS because of this; this is like a bank calling itself a proof of stake blockchain for paying interest on saving accounts. The scheme that you described doesn't actually prevent stake grinding, it just prevents a single stake grinder from stake grinding forever. If the cap is 3 consecutive blocks, then you stake grind for 3 consecutive blocks and then let others win the next N blocks, however many is necessary to reset suspicion and start stake grinding again. Simply being able to occasionally secure pairs of blocks some of the time is enough and realistically all that you should be able to do anyway in the 15s between blocks. You're still trading processing power for revenue in this situation QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 06:07
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Yep, you can never prevent people from pissing time and money away in an attempt to earn more, but you can make it so cost and risk inefficient as to be negligible. Using some fairly simple analysis techniques, you can detect stake grinding pretty easily, bake it into the algo and use a consensus based removal mechanism. It looks for random number distribution and values, such as time increases you get closer and closer to an ideal distribution, anything that fucks with that will show up over time. Depending on where you set the thresholds, you can revoke a suspicious block or outright remove the stake of the person who was suspiciously too lucky. I don't think this is true; the problem with your solution is that you can't tie stake to a person. At best you can punish stake that doesn't ever move. But splitting your stake is essentially free; if you split your stake enough times then you can push your stake-grinding activities beneath the noise floor Put another way, if I have a secret technique that gives me 60% odds against the house on any slot machine of my choosing, then I'll get caught pretty quickly if I walk around inside of a Vegas casino using this technique at will. But if I hire 10,000 people to each apply the technique once, then there's not enough sampling to catch any of them but we all walk away with more than we spent, as a pool.
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Jul 6, 2017 11:00
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Which is why most of the POS setups have some minimum where the block authoring value is 0.01-1% of the minimum stake. You are way less likely to gently caress around with $1000 at stake vs. $50. Doubling a lovely 4% return on your stake for the cost of a non-zero chance to lose it? A lot of people wont take that bet. Bitcoin ASIC warehouses in China suggest that people will do exactly that
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Jul 6, 2017 22:09
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Fauxtool posted:only the people that bought above retail should be pulling out. The ROI is still only 100 days (lol) if you paid retail pricing on rx580s Is that based on hashrates from some months ago or after months of exponential growth? 100 days seems really low when people in this thread started complaining about only netting ~$4/day over a month ago QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 07:13
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PerrineClostermann posted:https://www.techspot.com/news/70061-two-banks-australia-have-successfully-used-blockchain-their.html Short answer: no Long answer: They're using IBM's Blockchain service. They use write-only distributed databases, a technology that was around and in-use a long time before Bitcoin came along. If you've ever used git then you've used something akin to IBM's Blockchain.
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Jul 11, 2017 11:56
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The mass sell-off of graphics cards is going to be delayed by two big subsets of the mining community The first is composed of all of the people who don't pay for their electricity or who are just bad at accounting The second is composed of the speculators who are gambling on ETH/BTC/etc being worth way more in the future. This group is a lot bigger than you may think and are entirely responsible for cryptocurrencies being worth anything at all
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Jul 12, 2017 00:45
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You could be making entire dollars per day but at the expense of probably giving yourself cancer (if you live in one of the world's many coal-powered regions)
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Jul 12, 2017 12:16
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Fruit Chewy posted:Just wait until he figures out that ebay is gonna take 13% and shipping is another $20. -$4.75/hour of Pure Profit!
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Jul 14, 2017 01:45
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Spatial posted:Why did you do that? Same reason anyone buys mining equipment or cryptocurrency: Speculation!
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Jul 14, 2017 03:22
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Paul MaudDib posted:Look buddy, do I look like someone who wants to get brain damage from heatstroke lol mad respect for this reference Prescription Combs posted:Shiiiiit is the resale market crashing? I've inherited my deceased step brothers mining poo poo that I was going to test, clean up, and offload.  In all seriousness all of the difficulty curves are these nice exponentials until like last week when it looked like growth was just barely beginning to slow down. This means mining rewards get smaller every day. Cryptocurrencies have also taken a huge drop in price lately The resale market hasn't totally crashed yet but you should probably try to sell that mining equipment sooner rather than later, just make sure you get any wallets off first QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 22:28
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did you remember to factor in the for-sure fact that bitcoin will be worth $100k/coin by December?
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Jul 18, 2017 08:05
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Craptacular! posted:I wish I understood the tax rules etc surrounding this poo poo. It seems like "burritos" has become a meme because it doesn't produce enough income to live independently without a job, I get that. But it does seem to produce enough money that if you are without any other income being supported by people that you'll likely have to report it. Self-employment tax is for people who are self-employed, not people who happen to make some money selling their assets. You still have to report the income regardless but that's not a big deal so long as you keep accurate records
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Jul 21, 2017 11:59
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Twerk from Home posted:So, the IRS guidance has been pretty clear that crypto mining income counts as ordinary income which you will owe self-employment tax on whenever it's mined, and then any difference in price between when you mine it and when you sell it is taxed as capital gains or loss. It doesn't say that: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf If you're using Nicehash, then you're classified as an independent contractor (providing a service for which you are paid in bitcoins) and you need to pay self-employment taxes. But mining cryptocurrencies is just the generation of capital assets, which is immediate income but not self-employment income. It's the difference between selling junk at a yard sale and being paid to sell junk at a yard sale
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Jul 21, 2017 20:57
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