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Aurora
Jan 7, 2008

ハグ♡


Those damned millennials and their clickbaiting ways.

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Oswald Kesselpot
Jan 14, 2008

HONK HONK HONK


I don't know much about Reaves, except that he is a great punchmans, but that trade wasn't for his scoring touch. Giving up a guy that may or may not end up being a regular contributing NHL player for one of the best guys with a different "skill" set that is currently a contributing player isn't all bad.

The payment may have been a bit much, but really if the biggest knock on Rutherford is that after winning 2 cups in a row he gave up a marginal prospect and 20 spots in a draft class that the Pens did not seem so impressed with, in order to get the best fighter in the league, i think he is doing ok.

The bigger question would be do thePens need an enforcer, after winning 2 cups in a row without having one? and it could be argued that teams are taking more and more liberties with players, so having a guy available to break his knuckles on helmets could allieviate that a bit. I dont particularly like that the pens purposely got slower, but I'm also not one of the guys getting punched in the jaw and hacked on for 20 minutes a game either.

We will see if it works out; if Oscar and whoever was drafted end up being AHL regulars, and Reaves manages to stop some of the liberties teams are increasingly taking, it will have been a successful trade. but either way, at the end of the day as long as Reaves 8 minutes a game don't actually hurt the pens, I think this Is, at worst, an irrelevant trade despite looking like an over payment.

Wonderllama
Mar 15, 2003



Uhhhh I just thought about it and....BAD TRADE PITTSBURGH


*bangs gavel*

Mind_Taker
May 7, 2007

He's the best mindfuck yet


Wait is this trade all because Niskanen concussed Crosby? How the hell would Reaves have prevented that? Also when will Reaves ever see the ice with Crosby?

Oswald Kesselpot
Jan 14, 2008

HONK HONK HONK


Mind_Taker posted:

Wait is this trade all because Niskanen concussed Crosby? How the hell would Reaves have prevented that? Also when will Reaves ever see the ice with Crosby?
Not that specifically, but all the other times where penguin take cheap- shots. The idea is that the threat of a caveman immediately pounding you into the ice is a deterrent to stop you from punching Guentzel in the head 30 seconds after the whistle, or implementing a game plan to run the Pens goalie as often as possible.

That trade was basically to get a goon on the Pens squad, that can play every game and doesn't have to be called up every time e he might be needed. They got exactly what they wanted, now it's just a matter of whether or not a prospect and 20 positions in the draft ffor a good 4th line goon was paying to much.

Oswald Kesselpot fucked around with this message at Jun 25, 2017 around 14:02

Wonderllama
Mar 15, 2003



Hip Now and Wow! posted:


it's just a matter of whether or not a prospect and 20 positions in the draft ffor a good 4th line goon was paying to much.

Yeah. That's what we're basing it on when we say the trade was bad.

Especially when reports are that klim kostin could have top ten talent.

Mind_Taker
May 7, 2007

He's the best mindfuck yet


~goons are not a deterrent~

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 17, 2007

surfin usa

I would like Boston to sign Pastrnak at 6M for 8 years, and for the love of god give him a NTC/NMC so we can't trade him for nebulous reasons. This is the only thing I care about this offseason.

i am the bird
Mar 2, 2005

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS


Jamwad Hilder posted:

I would like Boston to sign Pastrnak at 6M for 8 years, and for the love of god give him a NTC/NMC so we can't trade him for nebulous reasons. This is the only thing I care about this offseason.

This seems like the beginnings of a cursed monkey paw wish.

Oswald Kesselpot
Jan 14, 2008

HONK HONK HONK


Wonderllama posted:

Yeah. That's what we're basing it on when we say the trade was bad.

Especially when reports are that klim kostin could have top ten talent.
I don't follow draftable players much, but I still don't think this can be classified as a teribble trade (at least not yet). they got exactly what they wanted after all, which is arguably the best enforcer they could expect to get, and they obviously have different projections on Kilm.

Personally I would rather they didn't make this trade, or at least not given up the 1st round pick and instead sent another prospect or maybe Oscar and a different pick. Everything I'm seeing on Kilm leads me to think he was worth the risk of drafting him, but if the Pens think they have the talent pool in their system already (and after the last two years who are we to dispute that?), then I can see why they would make this trade. Even if it was not wholly equal, It fills a perceived gap.

I think the bigger argument is whether or not that is actually a gap, and whether or not we wanted a dedicated goon at all, but that's not relevant to the actual trade.

FrenzyTheKillbot
Jan 31, 2008

Good Hustle


Hip Now and Wow! posted:

I still don't think this can be classified as a teribble trade (at least not yet). they got exactly what they wanted after all

This is a horrifically stupid way to gauge trades. Any time a GM makes a bad trade they get exactly what they wanted, because that's why they made the trade. Like, when Philly traded JVR for Luke Schenn, they got exactly what they wanted. When Montreal traded Subban for Weber, they got exactly what they wanted. They're still terrible trades.

Koopa Kid
Aug 21, 2007



eXXon posted:

There's a rumour that the Leafs offered 2018 1st + JVR for Hamonic, which I hope is false because that would have been really bad.

Incidentally, I just saw that Hamonic had 43% CF% in 519 minutes with Leddy last season compared to 51.5% in 558 minutes the year before. Ouch.

Yeah Dellow's piece on him in The Athletic is the kind of analysis I find really frustrating, it basically boils down to "if you ignore all the times he was bad, he looks really good!"

Like, I get nobody should be punished for playing with Andrew MacDonald and last year he was dealing with injury and family-related concerns, but at a certain point showing splits that say a dman is good when he's with a good partner and bad with a bad partner isn't actually making a case for the guy driving play.

That being said Hamonic's got a larger body of work behind him saying he's an effective player than the total disaster last year was.

If he's the good version of himself next year moving a 1st (which the Leafs would expect to fall lower than this year) and JVR's expiring contract wouldn't have been a bad deal, in my mind.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


I'm sorry but giving up a first rounder for a goon who doesn't even really have the "He can play a little" qualifier is unacceptable, even in a thin draft. If the Penguins felt they needed toughness, surely there was somebody in a team's AHL system who's just as a capable of putting somebody's lights out, and they're probably cheaper and more skilled at actual hockey. Tony Peluso is a UFA, and I'd bet he wants less than the 4.5M PGH owes Reaves over the next 4 years. And he can scrap, too.

What baffles me about this is Reaves doesn't even fight that often. He didn't even crack the top 10 in PIM's , and out of the top 10, pretty much everybody in that list is a better player than Ryan Reaves, except Mark Borowiecki. Even Reaves himself was befuddled as to why he got traded for a first rounder.

Schremp Howard
Jul 18, 2010

What attitude problem?

El Gallinero Gros posted:

I'm sorry but giving up a first rounder for a goon who doesn't even really have the "He can play a little" qualifier is unacceptable, even in a thin draft. If the Penguins felt they needed toughness, surely there was somebody in a team's AHL system who's just as a capable of putting somebody's lights out, and they're probably cheaper and more skilled at actual hockey. Tony Peluso is a UFA, and I'd bet he wants less than the 4.5M PGH owes Reaves over the next 4 years. And he can scrap, too.

Reaves only has next year left on that deal.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011

MENS REA? LOL MORE LIKE CHRIS REA AM I RITE

Lipstick Apathy

The Penguins trade was bad but he didn't really get traded for a first rounder in the normal sense. He got traded for Sundqvist and the Pens had to drop 20 spots in a draft where they were going off the board anyway to make up the difference in value.

Koopa Kid
Aug 21, 2007



Pens fans are just caught up in the Cup afterglow, we can't blame them for not thinking properly. If the Reaves trade had happened at the deadline instead posters would have lost their goddamn minds.

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause


Mind_Taker posted:

~goons are not a deterrent~

I don't know I find myself avoiding this place more and more

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


Schremp Howard posted:

Reaves only has next year left on that deal.

My bad you're right. But paying him 1.1M is still a problem. Plus if they don't re-sign him or offer an extension, that means they coughed up a 1st rounder for a year of a goon. That's insane. The Pens have a chance at winning 3 cups in a row still, but having cap space eaten up by a schlub like that doesn't help. Especially when that 1st rounder could have been packaged with something to get them defensive help, as we saw with the Hamonic trade.

Schremp Howard
Jul 18, 2010

What attitude problem?

I doubt the islanders would trade Hamonic in division.

If anything I'm guessing that Rutherford expects to re-sign Bonino and/or isn't confident in Sundqvist's ability to anchor the fourth line. He's waiver eligible IIRC so I guess it makes sense to get something if you don't think he'll stick.

And yeah if this trade happened without the cup wins I'd be more upset but whatever. Outside of Bonino, Lock up Jultz and Dumoulin, Sheary on a two or three year deal, Kunitz for a year at a million or less, and get someone to be back up and 7th D and I'm pretty happy.

Oswald Kesselpot
Jan 14, 2008

HONK HONK HONK


FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

This is a horrifically stupid way to gauge trades. Any time a GM makes a bad trade they get exactly what they wanted, because that's why they made the trade. Like, when Philly traded JVR for Luke Schenn, they got exactly what they wanted. When Montreal traded Subban for Weber, they got exactly what they wanted. They're still terrible trades.
Subban for Weber was 2 known quantities, not at all comparable to this particular trade. The Pens obviously think they will derive more value from a 4th line goon and # 51 in the draft that a middling prospect and # 31 in the draft. You and I may disagree with that, but we don't know how right or wrong it is yet. Hence why I said "(at least not yet)"

Basically, I don't think it was a very good trade for the Pens, but I am willing to give the back to back Stanley Cup champion GM the benefit of the doubt on this one and wait to see. It doesn't hurt that I think at worst this trade iwill be pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things; It's not like he traded Malkin for Goane or anything. He traded a couple prospects for a goon and another prospect, and SAS thinks he murdered Mario or something.

Oswald Kesselpot fucked around with this message at Jun 25, 2017 around 15:22

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

"Hot dog, I love Pittsburgh! No more Steve Simmons, he was the wurst!"


It does raise an interesting question -- is this JR's worst move as the Pens GM? The MAF contract was pretty bad, but can be at least partially excused because of the expansion draft maneuvering and 2nd Cup. Otherwise, so far as I can recall, JR's track record with the Pens has been pretty bulletproof.

That's a big part of PAS hand waving the Reaves trade away -- even good GMs make bad moves, so the best you can hope for is that they're few and far between, and that they aren't high impact. The Reaves trade checks the latter box (low impact) and we'll have to see what happens with the Pens gaps at C and D to see if JR can keep the former box checked too.

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


Sharks Eat Bear posted:

It does raise an interesting question -- is this JR's worst move as the Pens GM? The MAF contract was pretty bad, but can be at least partially excused because of the expansion draft maneuvering and 2nd Cup. Otherwise, so far as I can recall, JR's track record with the Pens has been pretty bulletproof.

Despres for Lovejoy was bad. It only looks acceptable because of two things that occurred after the fact: 1) the Ducks gave him a contract that the Penguins couldn't have afforded to give him without making significantly different moves than they actually did during the 2015 offseason (if you have Despres there's probably no Kessel deal) and 2) Despres's career is likely over after taking several headshots before he could accomplish anything notable with the Ducks.

Max Lapierre and Steve Downie were pretty lovely too, and so was Mike Johnston. But yeah, the good far outweighs the bad, and there's a lot of offseason left and free agency hasn't even started.

Spring Break My Heart
Feb 15, 2012


There are a lot of enforcers you could pick up for nothing.

Schremp Howard
Jul 18, 2010

What attitude problem?

Despres for Lovejoy was pretty heavily criticized but Lovejoy did play well when he didn't have to play top pairing and Despres got hot brains. Perron was a good trade in theory but didn't work out systems wise and led to Hagelin. Picks for Winnik was pretty meh.

But yeah overall Rutherford has been pretty decent with his trades. His bad ones had minimal impact, and his good ones (getting anything for Scuderi, Kessel, replacing a struggling player in Peron for someone who fits the system in Hagelin, not moving Fleury at the deadline) have been great.

He also told Rossi to go sell ice cream so he rules.

Mike_V
Jul 31, 2004

Let's* go Blackhawks! The Blues and Red Wings suck.

El Gallinero Gros posted:


What baffles me about this is Reaves doesn't even fight that often. He didn't even crack the top 10 in PIM's , and out of the top 10, pretty much everybody in that list is a better player than Ryan Reaves, except Mark Borowiecki. Even Reaves himself was befuddled as to why he got traded for a first rounder.

Yeah, he stopped fighting the last couple years and I think it was partially because he tried to focus on being a better Hockey Player.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

"Hot dog, I love Pittsburgh! No more Steve Simmons, he was the wurst!"


Pornographic Memory posted:

Despres for Lovejoy was bad. It only looks acceptable because of two things that occurred after the fact: 1) the Ducks gave him a contract that the Penguins couldn't have afforded to give him without making significantly different moves than they actually did during the 2015 offseason (if you have Despres there's probably no Kessel deal) and 2) Despres's career is likely over after taking several headshots before he could accomplish anything notable with the Ducks.

Max Lapierre and Steve Downie were pretty lovely too, and so was Mike Johnston. But yeah, the good far outweighs the bad, and there's a lot of offseason left and free agency hasn't even started.

Yeah I guess he's always had a thing for grit with Lapierre and Downie. Hopefully it's out of his system for now, and Sullivan will just coach around it

I was never very high on Despres so I didn't mind that trade. Lovejoy was no good but neither was Despres IMO

CBJSprague24
Dec 5, 2010

Again, Torts took him to a very high mountain and showed him Nationwide and all its splendor.

"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will lay down and block for me." -Jackets 15:16



With all the miracles he has performed, Rutherford was bound to have a gently caress up. It happens.

Reaves just allows them to have a punchman without having the dubious distinction of "paying Tom Sestito money to play hockey".

Glambags
Dec 28, 2003



Ok so the rangers still need centers and defenseman. Thank you to Jeff Gorton for restocking the pantry but we still need to put players on the ice. I am now very concerned that the rangers will be the rangers and sign aging free agents to bad deals now that they have cap space. *COUGHS* joe thornton

tofes
Mar 31, 2011

When there's a hole to be filled, I seem to get the call

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



Does Reaves punch way harder than Sestito or something? Niskanen might think twice about having anymore accidents, otherwise Tom Wilson will get punched by some guy for him!

https://twitter.com/IneffectiveMath...432231798296576

Ligur
Sep 6, 2000

by Nyc_Tattoo


Can Reaves skate fast or at least... semi-fast?

I seem to recall this wasn't the case though.

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT


What's Tim Sestito up to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPmZWFujWFM

Krime
Jul 30, 2003

Somebody has to do the scoring around here.



This organization should feel shame and be dissolved immediately.

Rob "Ice Cream/Spiderman/Heel" Rossi shouldn't even be a member, much less an elected leader.

Maybe him calling head coaches of other teams mean names should have clued people in that he is in no way "professional", but nope.

OldSenileGuy
Mar 13, 2001


Glambags posted:

Ok so the rangers still need centers and defenseman. Thank you to Jeff Gorton for restocking the pantry but we still need to put players on the ice. I am now very concerned that the rangers will be the rangers and sign aging free agents to bad deals now that they have cap space. *COUGHS* joe thornton

I can't decide how I'd feel about them signing Joe Thornton to something like 1 year at 2 million or 2 years at 1.5 million. Yeah, he's old as gently caress, but that's Tanner Glass money and he'd still be an upgrade on Tanner Glass.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


OldSenileGuy posted:

I can't decide how I'd feel about them signing Joe Thornton to something like 1 year at 2 million or 2 years at 1.5 million. Yeah, he's old as gently caress, but that's Tanner Glass money and he'd still be an upgrade on Tanner Glass.

That would be an obscenely good deal for Thornton, who can still probably get 10-15 goals and 30-40 assists

Starsfan
Sep 29, 2007

This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely


the funny thing is I believe the stats show that having a goon on your team makes violence more likely to happen to players on your club, not less likely.

Something to do with goons instigating retribution style one upsmanship with the goons on the other club.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

JEG VILLE KLEMME DEG


I'm on board for Jumbo on broadway as long as it's under 3 years and under 4 million per.

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT


Russo is really good

Oswald Kesselpot
Jan 14, 2008

HONK HONK HONK


Starsfan posted:

the funny thing is I believe the stats show that having a goon on your team makes violence more likely to happen to players on your club, not less likely.

Something to do with goons instigating retribution style one upsmanship with the goons on the other club.

This isn't going to be an issue next season because Ithe NHL are going to be taking player safety very seriously and will start calling more penalties, meting out more suspensions for obvious infractions, and not allowing players and teams to get away with cheap shots, thereby negating the need for goons.

Hey, stop laughing!

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hifi
Jul 25, 2012


Glambags posted:

Ok so the rangers still need centers and defenseman. Thank you to Jeff Gorton for restocking the pantry but we still need to put players on the ice. I am now very concerned that the rangers will be the rangers and sign aging free agents to bad deals now that they have cap space. *COUGHS* joe thornton

this was sort of my thought. why was everyone in such a rush to trade stepan

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